1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The parties 3 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: of the coalition government were staunch critics of the state 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: of our healthcare system while on the opposite side of 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: the aisle. Now that they're in charge, though, the heat 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: is being put on them to sort out everything from 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: months long waiting times to see specialists to gaps in 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: the mental health system and most recently, Budget twenty twenty 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: four did not deliver the much promised funding of thirteen 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: new cancer drugs that are shocked advocates. Today on the 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Front Page, Patient Voice Altied, our chairperson Malcolm mulholland joins 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: us to discuss the issues facing patients across the country 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: and what the government needs to do to improve our healthcare. Malcolm, 14 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: could you start by telling us what Patient Voice alter 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: It does. 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: Patient Voice alter Or has had a focus now on 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: improving medicine access for New Zealand patients since its inception back. 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen. 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 2: We came about as a result of a number of 20 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: petitions being presented to Parliament advocating for certain medicines to 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: be funded, and at the time we thought, well, rather 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: than just focusing on say those in cancer medicines or 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: those with a red disorder or chronic illness, why don't 24 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: we set up PVA so we can all fight under 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: the one umbrella. And that's what PVA is and what 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: we do. 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: The Coalition government is still a bit fresh at six 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: months in the job. Hey, but how would you describe 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: their efforts in the health sector so far? 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: I think it's probably fairly slow going. 31 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: I think people would probably freely admit that the health 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: sector by and large is in a crisis, whether they 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: be are waiting times at ED or the struggles in 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: order to see a GP, or if you're talking about 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: medicine access. I think there are some urgent actions needed, 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: especially in. 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 3: Terms of health workforce. 38 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 2: I think there's probably more we could do on that front, 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: and certainly in the field that we've been advocating for 40 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: around medicine access. 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Most recently, Health Minister Shane Ready announced thirty million dollars 42 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: for faster access to radiology services. He said, at the moment, 43 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: some New Zealanders are having to wait weeks or months 44 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: to see a hospital specialist, who then refer them to radiologies. 45 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 4: In some places, New Zealanders are waiting longer, making additional 46 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 4: payments for scans, for traveling long distances to radiology appointments 47 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 4: at their own cost. I'm pleased to announce that we 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 4: are investing thirty million dollars through Health New Zealand to 49 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 4: level up access to X rays, CT scans and diagnostic 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 4: ultrasound are cost New Zealand and to ensure that primary 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 4: health providers can refer patients directly we're clinically approached rather 52 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 4: than waiting for a specialist assessment. 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: Is cutting out that middleman and allowing GPS to refer 54 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: patients the way to go? Do you think? 55 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 5: Yeah? 56 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: I think it is a better system, and I think 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: it will see patients not having to wait longer, which 58 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 2: can only be a good thing. I think though, you're 59 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: also going to have some problems in terms of the 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: treating of the patients. It's one to get a diagnosis, 61 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: and sure, the more we can speed that up, the better. 62 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: But then there's another problem, and that is actually having 63 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: the patient in front of a specialist, whether that be 64 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: under the knife or doing whatever to fix the problem. 65 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: And I think that there's more that needs to be 66 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: addressed again in terms of workforce development. 67 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: At the same time, near research out of Otaga Uni 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: actually shows more kiwis are unable to access specialist care 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: in a timely way. We know this, but it leaves 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: GPS to manage complex cases without those extra resources. I guess, 71 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: is allowing them to refer to radiology only adding to 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: their workload. 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: Well, it will mean and again I think we run 74 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: into that same problem. We just don't have the health 75 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: workforce in order to deal with the tsunami of patients 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: that are currently backed up within the system. And so 77 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: you know, it's one to get a faster diagnosis and 78 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: that is a good outcome, But the second part of 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: the equation is having enough specialists on the ground who 80 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: can deal with a number of patients who require the attention. 81 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: That they do recently. 82 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: As well, the funding needed to supply thirteen new cancer 83 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: drugs that National promise before the election won't actually become 84 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: available for another year at least. 85 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 5: Is this disappointing to you without a doubt, because it 86 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 5: was very clear in the election and as a part 87 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 5: of their election manifesto that the intention was to fund 88 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 5: those drugs from one July this year, not to have 89 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 5: to wait another year and I sincerely hope that that 90 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 5: is not the case moving forward. 91 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: I would hope that you know the amount of protest 92 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: that the government has received on the back of their 93 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: announcement not to fund thirteen drugs or not to announce 94 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: them within the budget. You know, they work at pace 95 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: and put patients' minds at ease by saying this is 96 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: the time frame and this is the process by which 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: we're going to fund these standing medicines moving forward. 98 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 5: Osie murdered. 99 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 6: It was the first medication on their list that they 100 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 6: promised to fund if they were elected into government, and 101 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 6: that's the medication that I desperately need. To promise something 102 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 6: like that for so many desperate and vulnerable people, and 103 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 6: to just not keep their promise as shameful. 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult to get cancer drugs funded 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: in Altiadora. 106 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: I think the primary problem is that politicians can't be 107 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: seen to be instructing farmatic as to what drugs they 108 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: can and cannot fund. 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: They're being said. 110 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: This has certainly happened in the past with both sides 111 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: of the political spectrum, whether you be talking about a 112 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: labor leir government or a national led government. So Beckon 113 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, for example, Labor campaigned on prep being funded. 114 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: What happened, They got elected, the drug got funded. And 115 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: certainly you can see a pattern of behavior under the 116 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: previous government whereby there were high profile protests happening for 117 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: certain drugs to be funded, and then within a relatively 118 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: short space of time that drug would come to be funded. 119 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: And if we go back even. 120 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: Further in time, we can look at the her septum 121 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: example under the John Key guvernment. 122 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: So both sides are guilty of it. But what I 123 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 3: would say is that this is. 124 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: Just simply an outcome, if you like, of a broken system, 125 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: of the mere fact that far Mek has been underfunded 126 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: now for some time, and so politicians are put in 127 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: the position of having to pick winners and losers. 128 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: And it seems like it takes a while to go 129 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: through that approval process, so much so that when the 130 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: drug is funded, we generally hear about another better drug 131 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: being funded in say America or Europe or search. 132 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's right. 133 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: Look, on average, it takes somewhere in the vicinity of 134 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: seven years for a drug to be funded in New Zealand. 135 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just ridiculously long. We're still the only 136 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: country in the world that has a waiting list of 137 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: medicines that farmic would like to fund. So these are 138 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: drugs that have been through farmas process and systems. I've said, yes, 139 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 2: we believe they're efficacious, Yes we would like to fund 140 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: them if the funding permits us to do so. 141 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: What's also missing from that equation, though, that people. 142 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: Don't realize is that whilst these drugs are around the 143 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: ninety marks, it is ninety or so drugs that are 144 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: on this waiting list that they would like to fund. 145 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: For over one hundred indications, there's another two hundred and 146 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: eighty drugs grinding their way through farmac system right now. 147 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: So you know that gives you an idea of the 148 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: size of the whole that New Zealand patients are in. 149 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 7: There is some complexity to both how those medicines are approved, 150 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 7: how they are procured, and the order in which that happens. 151 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 7: But I've spoken to a former health minister and they 152 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 7: say National should never have promised this in the first place, 153 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 7: because essentially, when you name thirteen drugs, it shows your 154 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 7: hand and allows drug companies to milk it. 155 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: And Malcolm, I hope you don't mind me bringing this up, 156 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: but I guess, in a cruel twist of fate, you 157 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: yourself were actually diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago. Hey, 158 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: first off, how are you going? And secondly, how was 159 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: it going from an advocate to patient? And what did 160 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: you learn from having that first hand experience? 161 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: I guess what I would say is that my journey 162 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: in this battle started with my late wife's diagnosis back 163 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, So Wiki, my wife was diagnosed with 164 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: advanced breast cancer and we were put in the position 165 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: of having to find a lot of money for a 166 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: drug that we ended up campaigned for and it was funded, 167 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: that drug. 168 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: Being Ibrant, And then shortly. 169 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: After we lost Wiki, I myself was diagnosed completely out 170 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: of the blue, with no symptoms whatsoever, of an aggressive 171 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: form of prostate cancer. What that meant for me was 172 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: that we had to find about fifty thousand dollars so 173 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: I could be seen privately with urgency in order to 174 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: have my prostate removed, which is what happened. Nothing can 175 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: prepare you for a diagnosis of cancer, and at the 176 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: time it was unknown whether or not I had stage 177 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: three or stage four, and I knew what each stage 178 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: meant because I'd been through our cancer journey with Wiki, 179 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: your mind is basically smashed into a million pieces and 180 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: you're not sure what to do. You can't even put 181 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: your left foot in front of your right foot. So 182 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: to have that diagnosis, and then if you're put in 183 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: the position of needing an unfunded medicine, to have to 184 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: think that part of a journey through, I mean, it's 185 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: just just so cruel. 186 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: I guess we hear cancer and we just immediately think death. 187 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: So but there are drugs out there, aren't there, Malcolm. 188 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: We're constantly hearing stories about New Zealanders resorting to crowdfunding 189 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: and seeking health treatment overseas and moving to Australia. I 190 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: mean you would have heard them all. 191 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have, and they don't get any easier to hear. 192 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: And one thing I would say is that the number 193 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: of stories that I hear about is certainly on the increase. 194 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: They're not going away anytime soon. And so I have 195 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: met patients. For example, there was a lady he diagnosed 196 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: at the same time as my late wife. She managed 197 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: to get the drug that we needed, ibrance as their 198 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: first line treatment, So that meant that that was the 199 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 2: first drug she was put on. That's the only drug 200 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 2: she's received to date, and she's still. 201 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 3: Living really well up there and flung it a. 202 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: I met a person who had self funded a prostate 203 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: tenser drug. He lives in Tolonger. He's been on that 204 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 2: drug now for over a decade. So what we are 205 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: seeing is a transition for some people from stage four being, 206 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: if you like, a death center, towards living with a 207 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: disease almost under the banner of being chronic. And so 208 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: there is a shift, and that's something that the public 209 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: really should understand and appreciate. 210 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: And when you and your dear wife went through the system, 211 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: what was it like for you, guys, I guess seeing 212 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: it from the inside, or was it just a completely 213 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: different world because you did go through that private route? 214 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 2: So wiki didn't go through private, she went through public. 215 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: And I've got to say that the world of Kncer, 216 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: of your life was extremely foreign to us. We had 217 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: probably been one of the more fortunate faro in New 218 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: Zealand where Kncer I had lost, for example, a cousin 219 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: quite some years ago, and I'd lost the odd uncle 220 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: and what have you. But you know, it wasn't something 221 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: that's fresh in the memory. We had no concept of cancer. 222 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: So I can distinctly recall when WICKI was given the 223 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer. I didn't know what the 224 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 2: hell that meant, and so they had to bring in a. 225 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 3: Special listners to explain it to us, because of course 226 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 3: you've got the shock. 227 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: Of the diagnosis and then having to talk through what 228 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: that meant. 229 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 3: What I would say is that with. 230 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: My own experience having gone through private, the contrast is 231 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: night and day, especially in terms of the urgency under 232 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: which you are treated. So you know, time was a 233 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: ticking for me. If I had to left it there 234 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: a little bit longer, chances that it would have metestasized 235 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: and you'd now be talking to me as a terminally 236 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: ill cancer patient. Because I was able to go private, 237 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: I was able to go out to Grace Hospital and 238 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: total on there. I had robotic surgery, state of the art, 239 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: and they removed it with very good margins, which means 240 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: hopefully touch wood I won't see the cancer return. 241 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: Ever, how do we make that kind of treatment available 242 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: to everyone? 243 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 8: Though? 244 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: We need to increase funding, that's the bottom line. You know. 245 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: We pride ourselves and being part of the developed world, 246 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: but when it comes to healthcare, and especially when it 247 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: comes to cancer care, we are worlds behind. 248 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 3: And really grapes me when I hear stories of some 249 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 3: of our best and. 250 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: Brightest oncologists saying, you know, if I'm a senior oncologist 251 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: practicing here in New Zealand and if I'm a starting 252 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: oncologist in Australia, a starting oncologist is on the same 253 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: wage as a very experienced oncologist here at home. 254 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 3: And so there are so many gaps in the system. 255 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: And also the fact that oncologists overseas have access to 256 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: modern medicines, whereas here we're playing catch up. We're probably 257 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: a decade behind where we should be. 258 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: And so because doctors are unable to prescribe those medicines, 259 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: they're going offshore. So we also have a brain drain 260 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: in that space. And I think these are some of 261 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: the obstacles that we have to overcome. We have to 262 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: look at this seriously, we have to get a plan 263 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: in place, and we have to put the funding where 264 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 2: it matters. 265 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 8: It's an expensive drug, but it does have far better outcome, 266 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 8: both in survival level and in the quality of life. 267 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 3: That you get. 268 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 8: I believe that in Australia a pension that only needs 269 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 8: to pay six dollars fifty a month for this drug. 270 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 8: I'm really disappointed. 271 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: What would you like Shane Ready and the other ministers 272 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: to know about the pressures on the health system at 273 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: the moment and what would you like to see them change. 274 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: Well, I think they have to have an appreciation of 275 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: the relief that medicines or better access to medicines can 276 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: bring on the health system. There are numerous studies out 277 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: there that will show you if you fund a medicine, 278 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: that will relief pressure elsewhere in the health system. So 279 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: a really good example, it springs to mind, is the 280 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: funding of tri cafta those websisted fibrosis. Now, if that 281 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: hadn't have been funded, those patients would have required more 282 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: hospital care. They certainly would have had to have had 283 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: more lung transplants, and that in itself would have cost 284 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: a lot more than funding the medicine. Thankfully, for that community, 285 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: the medicine was funded and so that's overall savings on 286 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: the health system. I think my plea to Shane into 287 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: others is please make good on your promise to fund 288 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: those thirty medicines. Patients knew that their medicines were on 289 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: that list, and they voted accordingly, and I think to 290 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: take that away from them at this point in time, 291 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: it's just simply cruel and I would say to them also, 292 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: please have a view of mine. So New Zealand is 293 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: no longer the only country in the developed world that 294 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: has a waiting list for modern medicines and fun farmac seriously, 295 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: so that we can see other places in the health 296 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: system having that pressure alleviated. 297 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: And given how many issues there are across the health system, 298 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and of course these thirteen cancer drugs that we're talking 299 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: about as well. When Budget twenty twenty four announced eight 300 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: billion dollars for health over the next four years, but 301 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: then fourteen billion in tax cuts, did that annoy you 302 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: at all? 303 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I'll be honest with you. 304 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: I don't know how many times I've been approached in 305 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: the street where as they've said, we're okay paying our 306 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: taxes so long we agree with where our taxes are 307 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: being spent. So you know, I'd much rather give you 308 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: back my tax break if I know that in my 309 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: time of need, I'm. 310 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: Going to be catered for by the health system. 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: And some of them did actually touch on the education 312 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: system as well. I guess from their point of view, 313 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: they see that as the essentials that government should be providing, 314 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: and so many a person's come out and said, Hey, 315 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: I don't need the extra twenty bucks or whatever it 316 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: is in terms of tax breaks. What I need to 317 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: know is that that money is going to go towards 318 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: medicines or towards a health system, so that we have 319 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: a fully functioning health system and so that in my 320 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: time of need, I know I. 321 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: Can access the medicine that I will need. 322 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and getting a tax cut won't mean much to 323 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: you if you then have to go and give a 324 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: little when you get sick, K, that means nothing. 325 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: I mean you're looking at the thousands and thousands of 326 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: dollars we're in other OECD countries. 327 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: You know they're able to access it VERA prescriptions. It's insane. 328 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Malcolm. That's it for this episode 329 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: of the Front Page. You can read more about today's 330 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co 331 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles 332 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to 333 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 334 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.