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Speaker 1: News talks, it'd be political leader to Jason Walls is

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Speaker 1: with us this afternoon. Hi, Jason, Good afternoon, Jack. So

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Speaker 1: the PSA has won its case against the Ministry of Education.

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Speaker 2: Indeed it has, and it was very happy about that.

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Speaker 2: They sent out a press release less than an hour

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Speaker 2: ago touting that they had basically claiming victory on this one.

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Speaker 2: The union had filed an Employment Relations Authority proceedings because

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Speaker 2: of what it said was the ministry's failure to comply

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Speaker 2: with the collective Agreement in relation to job losses forced

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Speaker 2: by the government's spending cuts. And unless you've lived under

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Speaker 2: a rock, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about in

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Speaker 2: terms of those spending cuts, job cuts across the public

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Speaker 2: service agency, every single ministry, and of course the Ministry

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Speaker 2: of Education was not exempt to this. The authority found

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Speaker 2: that the PSA's interpretation of the collective Agreement with the

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Speaker 2: Ministry staff had not been complied with by the Ministry,

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Speaker 2: and the PSA says there was no attempt to engage

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Speaker 2: with the PSA as an active participant in the change. Now,

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Speaker 2: that's despite what the ministry said. The Ministry said that

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Speaker 2: it had engaged in those conversations, but the Employment Relations

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Speaker 2: Authority has ruled otherwise. In a statement, the PSA said

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Speaker 2: the authority also agreed with the PSA's position that the

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Speaker 2: Ministry was required to adopt a case by case approach

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Speaker 2: to the outcome outcomes for individuals. So this means that

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Speaker 2: considering matters such as retraining, leave without pay, early retirement severance,

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Speaker 2: and assisting people into other work for each individual. So

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Speaker 2: the Ministry now has twenty eight days to file and

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Speaker 2: appeal to the Employment Court. This is pretty major, as

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Speaker 2: the Ministry has previously said if the legal action was successful,

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Speaker 2: it would have to start the job cutting process all

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Speaker 2: over again. Quote. If the authority finds in favor of

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Speaker 2: the PSA, this is what the Ministry said at the

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Speaker 2: time when the proceedings started. We expect that the Authority

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Speaker 2: would require the Ministry to pause all change processes. Further

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Speaker 2: discussions with the PSA would follow with the aim of

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Speaker 2: reaching agreements on specific changes. They went on to say

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Speaker 2: that this may lead to new amendment proposals that may

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Speaker 2: require further consultation before decisions are made in action. So

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Speaker 2: it's already paused laying off staff while this legal action happened.

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Speaker 2: But the ministry said, no matter what happens, it would

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Speaker 2: still be cutting off, it would still be cutting staff.

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Speaker 2: They said that they'd made every effort to find the

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Speaker 2: money outside of the reductions to head counts. However, the

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Speaker 2: savings required to meet budget twenty four committed commitments are

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Speaker 2: greater than what we can do without reducing staff numbers.

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Speaker 2: So what does this mean. It means that everything is

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Speaker 2: going to get a lot more expensive. I would say

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Speaker 2: expect more offers of voluntary redundancies and more legal battles

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Speaker 2: as we go forward. And there's also the question of precedents,

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Speaker 2: because we do know that this is not the only

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Speaker 2: ministry that was grappling against the government's cuts.

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Speaker 1: Jason both Nikola Willis's associate Finance ministers have committed somewhat

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Speaker 1: of a cardinalson what have they done.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, in short, they've undermined the independence of the Reserve Bank,

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Speaker 2: which is what ministers are not allowed to do under

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Speaker 2: any circum stances. The Reserve Bank sets interest rates based

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Speaker 2: on its read of the economy, so it's deliberately keeping

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Speaker 2: itself at arm's length from ministers because they shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: getting involved, as it could be perceived that they're politically meddling,

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Speaker 2: but that's all out the window for now. First with

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Speaker 2: Associate Minister, Finance Minister and Acting Prime Minister David Seymour,

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Speaker 2: who after yesterday's three point three percent inflation number was released,

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Speaker 2: he was asked the obvious question by reporters, should the

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Speaker 2: Reserve Bank cut interest rates? Here's what he said, Well,

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Speaker 2: I can't tell the Reserve Bank governor what to do,

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Speaker 2: but you don't belave an economics degree to see.

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Speaker 3: People are hurting and flesh is going down fast and

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Speaker 3: relief is required.

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Speaker 2: So he might argue that that was not an explicit

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Speaker 2: instruction saying that relief is required is pretty I would

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Speaker 2: say it's pretty close to being given directions. If it's

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Speaker 2: not explicitly saying it, it is getting pretty close to

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Speaker 2: the line. But there was absolutely no ambiguity around what

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Speaker 2: the other Associate Finance Minister said, Shane Jones, when he

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Speaker 2: spoke to the country earlier today.

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Speaker 3: Of course we need to reduce the cost of money. Look,

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Speaker 3: I remember surviving through the global financial crisis that was

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight twenty ten. My family had a

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Speaker 3: whole host of interests in economic enterprises. I think the

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Speaker 3: circumstances facing a lot of regional New Zealand enterprises are

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Speaker 3: worse now than they were back in the global financial crisis,

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Speaker 3: and sadly, they're not seeing a monetary impulse coming from

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Speaker 3: the Reserve Bank. We're seeing the opposite.

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Speaker 2: So it's pretty unambiguous there in terms of what his

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Speaker 2: thoughts off in terms of what should happen. As I understand,

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Speaker 2: let's stand it. Nikola Willis is also keen to see

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Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank cut the ocr but she hasn't come

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Speaker 2: out and said that. I mean yet, no products are

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Speaker 2: there for the Will's most obvious statement. But the thing is,

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Speaker 2: she hasn't come out explicitly and said it should happen

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Speaker 2: because it would be improper. So, you know, do I

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Speaker 2: think that Willis do I think that Jones and Seymour's

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Speaker 2: urging of the Reserve Bank or their comments will change

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Speaker 2: their mind. I think they're probably already in a position

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Speaker 2: where they're thinking of doing it anyway, and I think

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Speaker 2: it probably might happen earlier this year. But it's pretty

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Speaker 2: improper for them to do what they've done. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's ultimately going to change much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, let's be honest though, Jason, I mean

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Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank are educated adults. Surely that the Monetary

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Speaker 1: Policy Committee can actually say yes. Of course politicians watase

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Speaker 1: he cuts to the OCE era. But actually we're going

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Speaker 1: to make decisions independent of what they want. That's the

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Speaker 1: whole purpose. Come like judges do when it comes to sentencing.

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Speaker 1: Surely we have to put a bit of stock in

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Speaker 1: these people's expertise. But thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 1: That is News talks 'DB Political editor Jason Walls. For

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Speaker 1: more from Hither Duplicy Allen Drive. Listen live to News

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