WEBVTT - New documentary puts Pauline Hanna and Philip Polkinghorne back in the spotlight

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<v Speaker 1>Yielder.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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<v Speaker 2>daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Pauline Hannah

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<v Speaker 2>is sitting on a boat sea breeze, big smiles. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the image. Filmmakers of a new three part documentary into

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<v Speaker 2>her death and subsequent murder trial of her husband, decide

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<v Speaker 2>to open on. Philip Polkinghorn was found not guilty of

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<v Speaker 2>strangling his wife to death and making it look like

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<v Speaker 2>she'd take in her own life. The Front Page covered

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<v Speaker 2>the mammoth eight week trial in the series Accused the

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<v Speaker 2>Polkinghorn Trial, but today on the Front Page, executive producer

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<v Speaker 2>Mark McNeel is with us to talk about the trial,

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<v Speaker 2>the documentary and the life of Pauline Hannah. So, Mark,

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<v Speaker 2>you've kept it down to three episodes. You and I

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<v Speaker 2>sat through the trial, so we know how difficult that was.

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<v Speaker 2>How can you explain to the public or anyone watching

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<v Speaker 2>these episodes for the first time, how much footage you

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<v Speaker 2>actually had to troll through to cut that down.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a really good question. Well, I have actually done

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<v Speaker 3>this number myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I did it one stage, just just out of interest.

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<v Speaker 1>So we were there, I think for eight weeks, eight

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<v Speaker 1>fives or about forty days or I think about eight

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<v Speaker 1>hours a day, whatever that goes to. It's a hell

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot of footage. I was there every day

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<v Speaker 1>and I was literally taking notes because we had anticipated

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<v Speaker 1>this issue. I was taking notes and writing down time code,

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<v Speaker 1>time of day so that when the director and editor

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<v Speaker 1>had to go.

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<v Speaker 3>Through and find stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I on my notes, you know, I indicated who was

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<v Speaker 1>speaking when they started this was I thought this was

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<v Speaker 1>a really good point or really interesting point.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was a huge, huge job.

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<v Speaker 1>And the other thing, as you will well know, Chelsea,

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<v Speaker 1>is that court sometimes proceeds at a glacial pace, so

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<v Speaker 1>someone's evidence can be out, you know, given over a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of days, and you have to boil it down

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<v Speaker 1>to the conclusions. But yet it was a real challenge,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think if we had more episodes, we probably

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<v Speaker 1>would have spent a bit more time in court with

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<v Speaker 1>some of those things, because there were some wonderful moments

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<v Speaker 1>in court that you know, we didn't have time for.

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<v Speaker 2>So you had to sit down interview with Philip Poulkinghorn himself,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was filmed before the trial. Hey did he

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<v Speaker 2>not want to speak to you again?

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<v Speaker 4>Mark?

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<v Speaker 3>No. I.

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<v Speaker 1>So we had that interview, and that was an interview

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<v Speaker 1>conducted over a couple on a couple of days, so

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't just one interview, it was two interviews and

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<v Speaker 1>just for.

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<v Speaker 3>A bit of background.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, I mean, at that stage, we had

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<v Speaker 1>no idea what the prosecution's case was or the defense's

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<v Speaker 1>arguments were.

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<v Speaker 3>We just knew that he had been charged.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, like it's kind of very different looking

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<v Speaker 1>back at it with the benefit of hindsight after the case,

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<v Speaker 1>but at the time we just, you know, in good faith,

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<v Speaker 1>we filmed him and his account of it all. And

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<v Speaker 1>after the trial I contacted him and asked him if

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<v Speaker 1>he would do a post trial interview and he said

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<v Speaker 1>to me, it was a phone call. I would have

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<v Speaker 1>to my lawyer, Ron Mansfield, would have to okay it.

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<v Speaker 1>So of course I immediately seized on that, as you

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<v Speaker 1>would and when so, does that mean if Ron says yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you would do the interview?

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<v Speaker 3>And he went yes.

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<v Speaker 1>I suspect he might have been using Ron as a

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<v Speaker 1>convenient excuse to say no, and I would understand PEAPs

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<v Speaker 1>went didn't. But I contacted Ron, and Ron in the

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<v Speaker 1>end came back and said that he was advising his

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<v Speaker 1>not to do interviews.

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<v Speaker 2>So Madison Ashton reveals to you guys what she would

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<v Speaker 2>have said if she'd made it to the stand during

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<v Speaker 2>the trial, but of course we know that she didn't

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<v Speaker 2>because she was away in Europe during which what did

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<v Speaker 2>she say to you guys? Do you reckon she would

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<v Speaker 2>have said anything that would have really affected the case

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<v Speaker 2>at all?

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<v Speaker 3>Really hard for me to say.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I look, the one place that we never

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<v Speaker 1>were and I would have loved have been is in

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<v Speaker 1>the jury room. So I have no idea where the

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<v Speaker 1>Madison's testimony would have changed the trial.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I just don't have any idea.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if she had been in the trial, she

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<v Speaker 1>would have been probably cross examined pretty intensely by Ron Mansfield,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, you've got no idea how that would

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<v Speaker 1>have gone. And to be honest, I don't know whether

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<v Speaker 1>it would have made a difference. I mean, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think she didn't have any sort of smoking gun evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, is the short answer to that.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's probably a long answer as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people have seen that it's an Ashton, You're nothing

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<v Speaker 2>but a gold diggate.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you have to say to those people, are.

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<v Speaker 1>You a no?

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<v Speaker 5>No, only poor people say that I'm a gold digger.

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<v Speaker 5>I've never ever met a man who has not wanted

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<v Speaker 5>a woman for his money if he's moneyed. That's the

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<v Speaker 5>whole point of men making money is to be wanted

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<v Speaker 5>by a greater pool of women. Philip was just a

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<v Speaker 5>nerd doctor on a on a good income.

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<v Speaker 3>So you are you saying you earn like eight hundreds yet?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>So it and he worked for it and so did I.

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<v Speaker 5>So yeah, so when it comes to the gold digger thing,

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<v Speaker 5>it's just it's just poor people saying poor people's stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and she's really a character. It's quite nice to

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<v Speaker 2>see her in her full element, you know, showing off

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<v Speaker 2>a glitzy shoe collection ten thousand dollars a shelf. She says,

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<v Speaker 2>what was it like, kind of getting a glimpse into

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<v Speaker 2>her life?

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<v Speaker 3>I suppose, yeah, I mean it was fascinating and she

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<v Speaker 3>was very open with us. And she is a real character.

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<v Speaker 1>As you say, she works in an industry that I

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<v Speaker 1>really don't know anything about, and so she kind of

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<v Speaker 1>demystified a lot of that, and of course she just

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<v Speaker 1>had a huge amount of information and background about Philip

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<v Speaker 1>and her relationship and with Philip and the events that

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<v Speaker 1>you know over years that preceded Pauline's death.

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<v Speaker 3>So it was just it was fascinating.

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<v Speaker 2>And I suppose that back and forth as well the

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<v Speaker 2>videos during COVID that you get to see in the

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<v Speaker 2>documentary between the two of them, and the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>it does look like a loving relationship between Madison and Philip,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas in the trial, because she wasn't there, it was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of more of a client sex worker kind of relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>But through the documentary and through what you guys put

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<v Speaker 2>to the audience, it doesn't really seem like that was

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<v Speaker 2>spoken about during the trial, the relationship part of it, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, my impression of the defense's point of view was

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<v Speaker 1>that they were trying to play down that that they

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to portray Madison and Phillip's relationship as if

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<v Speaker 1>it was simply professional as a sex worker and a client.

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<v Speaker 3>I think when people see all that.

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<v Speaker 1>All those video calls and those messages and all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff, you can see that in a different light.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that again I'm speaking from my impression

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<v Speaker 1>of the prosecutions case was they were trying to establish

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<v Speaker 1>that Philip did, you know, had a romantic relationship with Madison,

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<v Speaker 1>and they wished to say that she might have been

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<v Speaker 1>a motivation for him to wanting to leave Pauling. But

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<v Speaker 1>certainly if you look at watching all those those interactions

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<v Speaker 1>between Madison and Philip, there seems to be a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of affection between the.

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<v Speaker 3>Two of them.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you make of Polkinghorn coming out and saying

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<v Speaker 2>that it's tabloid click bait and that he was deceived

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<v Speaker 2>by you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, Look, we just showed his life and the events

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding his life and lead up to that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, that's what his life was like. We're just

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<v Speaker 3>telling it like it was.

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<v Speaker 1>And now the rest of the media pick up on that,

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<v Speaker 1>and the tabloids do, but we didn't. We just showed

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<v Speaker 1>Philip's life as it was.

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<v Speaker 2>The fact of the matter is that his life involved math, sex,

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<v Speaker 2>sex workers, and lot of money.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, which is tabloid an amazing as everybody said that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, like in a lot of trials, there are

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<v Speaker 1>one of those elements and in this one you sort

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<v Speaker 1>of add all of them and it's sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>kind of an amazing combination from the point of view

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<v Speaker 1>of the media, they couldn't resist it, and to be fair,

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<v Speaker 1>public interest was huge as well. And also I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's not so often that you see a highly respected

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<v Speaker 1>member of the establishment charged with murder, and so you

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<v Speaker 1>know that often, you know, we see trials in the

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<v Speaker 1>media and they don't often necessarily involve medical specialists in

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<v Speaker 1>that situation.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think that really captured people's interest as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And now, which in grees netpol in rest and peace

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<v Speaker 2>that is best if we can possibly give her baking.

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<v Speaker 4>The case put a spotlight on Pulkinghorn's most personal affairs,

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<v Speaker 4>revealing the remu Era eye surgeon as a meth user

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<v Speaker 4>with a fondness for escorts, but a wife killer. A

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<v Speaker 4>jury decided he was not.

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<v Speaker 2>And I guess throughout this whole thing and how tabloidy

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<v Speaker 2>it is, just in its general nature, people tend to

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<v Speaker 2>think about Pauline Hannah. Pauline Hannah died that day, and

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<v Speaker 2>I thought something you said stuck with me that we

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<v Speaker 2>mustn't forget that this is about Pauline Hannah's life and

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<v Speaker 2>the way that you edited the film and you really

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to pay homage to her and her work and

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<v Speaker 2>her life and her loved ones. Tell me a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit about that process, kind of making sure that Pauline

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<v Speaker 2>Hannah's memory was respected throughout.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, the trial and the case was in some respects

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<v Speaker 1>quite bonkers, and it was easy to get caught up

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<v Speaker 1>in that, but when you have to start condensing it,

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<v Speaker 1>you do realize that, you know, you're aware that this

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<v Speaker 1>is because a person's died. And we were really really

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<v Speaker 1>conscious of that, and we had a meeting before we started,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that very first meeting you have when you

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<v Speaker 1>before you start production, and we talked about that and

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<v Speaker 1>we wanted to never lose sight of that because I

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<v Speaker 1>think that in some true crime and I hate use

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<v Speaker 1>that word, you know, true crime, but in some documentaries

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<v Speaker 1>that involve people who have died or in murder trials,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes the dead person gets forgotten. And we didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. We wanted to just, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>remember her and that and so, as you said, it

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<v Speaker 1>is it's deliberate that the first and the last images

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<v Speaker 1>you see of Pauline, and we did also wish to

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<v Speaker 1>be respectful of her family as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, all of those images of Pauline, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>they were really special, weren't they because you spoke to

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<v Speaker 2>her brother Bruce for the documentary as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, yes, Interfeasant, Yeah and they and they were good

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<v Speaker 1>enough to provide us with photos and some video of Pauline.

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<v Speaker 1>For me, when I heard her speak in the Longlands tape,

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<v Speaker 1>she really became real. You know, you see photos of

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<v Speaker 1>someone and you kind of have an idea, but when

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<v Speaker 1>you hear them speaking and their cadence, and she seemed

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<v Speaker 1>like a really sharp, kind of lively woman and probably

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of fun to meet and be around. I

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<v Speaker 1>got a really lovely you know, for the first time,

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<v Speaker 1>I got a real sense of her and that was great.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the reaction been like to the series so far?

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<v Speaker 1>It's been positive. I mean I'm getting loads and loads

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<v Speaker 1>of texts and messages from people and we you know,

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<v Speaker 1>with everybody, and the production team is getting those as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and far more than I would normally ever get.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think that it's been a really good reaction

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<v Speaker 3>so far.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining us, Mark, You're welcome. That's it for

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<v Speaker 2>this episode of the Front Page. You can read more

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<v Speaker 2>about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot

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<v Speaker 2>co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan

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<v Speaker 2>Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio

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<v Speaker 2>or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on

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<v Speaker 2>Monday for another look behind the headlines.