1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Yielder. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Pauline Hannah 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: is sitting on a boat sea breeze, big smiles. It's 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 2: the image. Filmmakers of a new three part documentary into 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: her death and subsequent murder trial of her husband, decide 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: to open on. Philip Polkinghorn was found not guilty of 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 2: strangling his wife to death and making it look like 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: she'd take in her own life. The Front Page covered 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: the mammoth eight week trial in the series Accused the 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: Polkinghorn Trial, but today on the Front Page, executive producer 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: Mark McNeel is with us to talk about the trial, 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: the documentary and the life of Pauline Hannah. So, Mark, 14 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: you've kept it down to three episodes. You and I 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: sat through the trial, so we know how difficult that was. 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: How can you explain to the public or anyone watching 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: these episodes for the first time, how much footage you 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 2: actually had to troll through to cut that down. 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. Well, I have actually done 20 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 3: this number myself. 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: I did it one stage, just just out of interest. 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: So we were there, I think for eight weeks, eight 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: fives or about forty days or I think about eight 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: hours a day, whatever that goes to. It's a hell 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: of a lot of footage. I was there every day 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: and I was literally taking notes because we had anticipated 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 1: this issue. I was taking notes and writing down time code, 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: time of day so that when the director and editor 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: had to go. 30 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: Through and find stuff. 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: I on my notes, you know, I indicated who was 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: speaking when they started this was I thought this was 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: a really good point or really interesting point. 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: But it was a huge, huge job. 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: And the other thing, as you will well know, Chelsea, 36 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: is that court sometimes proceeds at a glacial pace, so 37 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: someone's evidence can be out, you know, given over a 38 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: couple of days, and you have to boil it down 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: to the conclusions. But yet it was a real challenge, 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: and I think if we had more episodes, we probably 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: would have spent a bit more time in court with 42 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: some of those things, because there were some wonderful moments 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: in court that you know, we didn't have time for. 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 2: So you had to sit down interview with Philip Poulkinghorn himself, 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: but it was filmed before the trial. Hey did he 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: not want to speak to you again? 47 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 4: Mark? 48 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: No. I. 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: So we had that interview, and that was an interview 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: conducted over a couple on a couple of days, so 51 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't just one interview, it was two interviews and 52 00:02:59,440 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: just for. 53 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: A bit of background. 54 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: So you know, I mean, at that stage, we had 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: no idea what the prosecution's case was or the defense's 56 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: arguments were. 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 3: We just knew that he had been charged. 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: So you know, like it's kind of very different looking 59 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: back at it with the benefit of hindsight after the case, 60 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: but at the time we just, you know, in good faith, 61 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: we filmed him and his account of it all. And 62 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: after the trial I contacted him and asked him if 63 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: he would do a post trial interview and he said 64 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: to me, it was a phone call. I would have 65 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: to my lawyer, Ron Mansfield, would have to okay it. 66 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: So of course I immediately seized on that, as you 67 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: would and when so, does that mean if Ron says yes, 68 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: you would do the interview? 69 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: And he went yes. 70 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: I suspect he might have been using Ron as a 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: convenient excuse to say no, and I would understand PEAPs 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: went didn't. But I contacted Ron, and Ron in the 73 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: end came back and said that he was advising his 74 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: not to do interviews. 75 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: So Madison Ashton reveals to you guys what she would 76 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: have said if she'd made it to the stand during 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: the trial, but of course we know that she didn't 78 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: because she was away in Europe during which what did 79 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: she say to you guys? Do you reckon she would 80 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: have said anything that would have really affected the case 81 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: at all? 82 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: Really hard for me to say. 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: You know, I look, the one place that we never 84 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: were and I would have loved have been is in 85 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: the jury room. So I have no idea where the 86 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: Madison's testimony would have changed the trial. 87 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 3: You know, I just don't have any idea. 88 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: I mean, if she had been in the trial, she 89 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: would have been probably cross examined pretty intensely by Ron Mansfield, 90 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: and you know, you've got no idea how that would 91 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: have gone. And to be honest, I don't know whether 92 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: it would have made a difference. I mean, I don't 93 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: think she didn't have any sort of smoking gun evidence, 94 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: So I don't know, is the short answer to that. 95 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: And it's probably a long answer as well. 96 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: Some people have seen that it's an Ashton, You're nothing 97 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: but a gold diggate. 98 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: Do you have to say to those people, are. 99 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: You a no? 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,119 Speaker 5: No, only poor people say that I'm a gold digger. 101 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 5: I've never ever met a man who has not wanted 102 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 5: a woman for his money if he's moneyed. That's the 103 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 5: whole point of men making money is to be wanted 104 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 5: by a greater pool of women. Philip was just a 105 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 5: nerd doctor on a on a good income. 106 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: So you are you saying you earn like eight hundreds yet? 107 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? 108 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: So it and he worked for it and so did I. 109 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 5: So yeah, so when it comes to the gold digger thing, 110 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 5: it's just it's just poor people saying poor people's stuff. 111 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: Well, and she's really a character. It's quite nice to 112 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: see her in her full element, you know, showing off 113 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: a glitzy shoe collection ten thousand dollars a shelf. She says, 114 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: what was it like, kind of getting a glimpse into 115 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: her life? 116 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 3: I suppose, yeah, I mean it was fascinating and she 117 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: was very open with us. And she is a real character. 118 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: As you say, she works in an industry that I 119 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: really don't know anything about, and so she kind of 120 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: demystified a lot of that, and of course she just 121 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: had a huge amount of information and background about Philip 122 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: and her relationship and with Philip and the events that 123 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: you know over years that preceded Pauline's death. 124 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: So it was just it was fascinating. 125 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 2: And I suppose that back and forth as well the 126 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: videos during COVID that you get to see in the 127 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: documentary between the two of them, and the fact that 128 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: it does look like a loving relationship between Madison and Philip, 129 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: whereas in the trial, because she wasn't there, it was 130 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: kind of more of a client sex worker kind of relationship. 131 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: But through the documentary and through what you guys put 132 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: to the audience, it doesn't really seem like that was 133 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: spoken about during the trial, the relationship part of it, right. 134 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: Well, my impression of the defense's point of view was 135 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: that they were trying to play down that that they 136 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: were trying to portray Madison and Phillip's relationship as if 137 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: it was simply professional as a sex worker and a client. 138 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: I think when people see all that. 139 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: All those video calls and those messages and all that 140 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you can see that in a different light. 141 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: And I think that again I'm speaking from my impression 142 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: of the prosecutions case was they were trying to establish 143 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: that Philip did, you know, had a romantic relationship with Madison, 144 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: and they wished to say that she might have been 145 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: a motivation for him to wanting to leave Pauling. But 146 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: certainly if you look at watching all those those interactions 147 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: between Madison and Philip, there seems to be a lot 148 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: of affection between the. 149 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: Two of them. 150 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: What do you make of Polkinghorn coming out and saying 151 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: that it's tabloid click bait and that he was deceived 152 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: by you guys. 153 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Ah, Look, we just showed his life and the events 154 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: surrounding his life and lead up to that. 155 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 3: You know, that's what his life was like. We're just 156 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 3: telling it like it was. 157 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: And now the rest of the media pick up on that, 158 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: and the tabloids do, but we didn't. We just showed 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: Philip's life as it was. 160 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: The fact of the matter is that his life involved math, sex, 161 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 2: sex workers, and lot of money. 162 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, which is tabloid an amazing as everybody said that. 163 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: You know, like in a lot of trials, there are 164 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: one of those elements and in this one you sort 165 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: of add all of them and it's sort of a 166 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: kind of an amazing combination from the point of view 167 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: of the media, they couldn't resist it, and to be fair, 168 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: public interest was huge as well. And also I think 169 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: it's not so often that you see a highly respected 170 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: member of the establishment charged with murder, and so you 171 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: know that often, you know, we see trials in the 172 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: media and they don't often necessarily involve medical specialists in 173 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: that situation. 174 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 3: So I think that really captured people's interest as well. 175 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 2: And now, which in grees netpol in rest and peace 176 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: that is best if we can possibly give her baking. 177 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 4: The case put a spotlight on Pulkinghorn's most personal affairs, 178 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: revealing the remu Era eye surgeon as a meth user 179 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 4: with a fondness for escorts, but a wife killer. A 180 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 4: jury decided he was not. 181 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: And I guess throughout this whole thing and how tabloidy 182 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: it is, just in its general nature, people tend to 183 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: think about Pauline Hannah. Pauline Hannah died that day, and 184 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: I thought something you said stuck with me that we 185 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: mustn't forget that this is about Pauline Hannah's life and 186 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: the way that you edited the film and you really 187 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: wanted to pay homage to her and her work and 188 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: her life and her loved ones. Tell me a little 189 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: bit about that process, kind of making sure that Pauline 190 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 2: Hannah's memory was respected throughout. 191 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: Yes, the trial and the case was in some respects 192 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: quite bonkers, and it was easy to get caught up 193 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: in that, but when you have to start condensing it, 194 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: you do realize that, you know, you're aware that this 195 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: is because a person's died. And we were really really 196 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: conscious of that, and we had a meeting before we started, 197 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: you know, that very first meeting you have when you 198 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: before you start production, and we talked about that and 199 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: we wanted to never lose sight of that because I 200 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: think that in some true crime and I hate use 201 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: that word, you know, true crime, but in some documentaries 202 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: that involve people who have died or in murder trials, 203 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: sometimes the dead person gets forgotten. And we didn't want 204 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: to do that. We wanted to just, I don't know, 205 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: remember her and that and so, as you said, it 206 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: is it's deliberate that the first and the last images 207 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: you see of Pauline, and we did also wish to 208 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: be respectful of her family as well. 209 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: Of course, all of those images of Pauline, I mean, 210 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: they were really special, weren't they because you spoke to 211 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: her brother Bruce for the documentary as well. 212 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: Hey, yes, Interfeasant, Yeah and they and they were good 213 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: enough to provide us with photos and some video of Pauline. 214 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: For me, when I heard her speak in the Longlands tape, 215 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: she really became real. You know, you see photos of 216 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: someone and you kind of have an idea, but when 217 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: you hear them speaking and their cadence, and she seemed 218 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: like a really sharp, kind of lively woman and probably 219 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: a lot of fun to meet and be around. I 220 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: got a really lovely you know, for the first time, 221 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: I got a real sense of her and that was great. 222 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: What's the reaction been like to the series so far? 223 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: It's been positive. I mean I'm getting loads and loads 224 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: of texts and messages from people and we you know, 225 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: with everybody, and the production team is getting those as well, 226 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: and far more than I would normally ever get. 227 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: So I think that it's been a really good reaction 228 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: so far. 229 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Mark, You're welcome. That's it for 230 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 2: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more 231 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot 232 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan 233 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer. 234 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio 235 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on 236 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 2: Monday for another look behind the headlines.