1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: CHIELDA. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: New Zealand Police are assisting. 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: The FBI in an investigation into a secretive religious group 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: which has operations worldwide. It's a fringe Christian sect that 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: has no official name, but it's commonly known as the 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: two x Two's, the Truth, the. 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Way and the Church with No Name. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: The inquiries follow a BBC investigation last year into allegations 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: of child sexual abuse spanning decades within the church, which 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: is believed to have up to one hundred thousand members worldwide. 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: And in a bizarre twist, it's been revealed National Party 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: MP Hamish Campbell is a high ranking member of the group. 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: Today on the front page Herald Senior Crime Report, Annalysk 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: is with us. She's been delving into what exactly the 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: group is. First off, Anna, can you tell me what 18 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: the two x Two's Group actually is. 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,639 Speaker 3: The group is a church that was started in the 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: late eighteen hundreds. In eighteen ninety seven by a Scottish 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: missionary who had become pretty disillusioned with the church. He 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: was worth and he wanted to sort of return to 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 3: a really ancient rendition of the Bible teachings. He wanted 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: to go back to, you know, that simple life of poverty, homelessness, 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,639 Speaker 3: itinerant preaching and just spreading the word to their own people. 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: He was against other churches, so he sort of isolated 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 3: what he was doing to himself and it grew from there. 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: The church doesn't have a name and it doesn't have buildings. 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: He was very opposed to both of those things because 30 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 3: he believes that you know, you don't need a building 31 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: to be saved, and you don't need to have a name, 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 3: just it's that really pure form of worship, I guess 33 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: and service. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: So what do they actually believe, because I know that 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: you mentioned no buildings, But they also don't really have 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: any written doctrine or any written rules or regulations, right, they. 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: Don't have any written sort of rules or regulations. There's 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: a lot published about what they do and don't believe. Effectively, 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: they're just fundamentalist Christians who firstly, they believe that if 40 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 3: you are not a member of their number, you will 41 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: not get into heaven and you it will be decided 42 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 3: when you die whether you go to heaven or how 43 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: sort of that decision is made on the service you've 44 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: done during your life, the work you've done for the God. 45 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 3: They're pretty into this idea of you know, their preachers 46 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: are sort of itinerant. They move from house to house, 47 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: they get looked after by the body of the church 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: I guess, who are known as friends, and they get 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: everything paid for. And it's just that really basic community 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: of worshipers that just keep it really simple, I guess 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: is what they're trying to do. 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: Right from and what I've read is that they hold 53 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: meetings in their houses what midweek and on Sundays or something. 54 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, the main meeting is on a Sunday morning, and 55 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 3: that's called house church now that's held at the home 56 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: of an elder to one of the men in the group. 57 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: On Wednesdays and Sunday nights, there is a gospel meeting 58 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: and that's when the preachers of the field or the 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 3: location therein run are sort of a prayer meeting and 60 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 3: everyone goes along and listens to them. And that can 61 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: often be in a church hall. Now when they are traveling, 62 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 3: so if they're off at a conference or if they're 63 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: at a convention or whatever, various forms of words they 64 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: use if these preachers are away, then other elders will 65 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: host prayer meetings in their home, which is what of 66 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 3: course the national MP, Hamish Campbell has confirmed that he 67 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 3: has done over the years. 68 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: Right, We'll get to Hamish Campbell obviously in a minute. 69 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: But I guess why are we hearing about this group 70 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Well, the real. 71 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: Reason hearing about this group all of a sudden is 72 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 3: they are under investigation by the FBI. Allegations were made 73 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: in the States, initially about historic sexual abuse, and the 74 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: FBI started looking into this. They asked for survivors to 75 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: come forward and they've got a global response. So that 76 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: was February last year. They put the word out asking 77 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 3: for any victims of the two BO two group to 78 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: contact them. Now, in Fibruary this year, the New Zealand 79 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: Police started reaching out two people who had contacted the FBI. 80 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: There is a New Zealand Police investigation on going, so 81 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 3: you know, yes, we have an MP involved in this group. 82 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: Separate issue. This group is in the media and in 83 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: the news at the moment because there are two pretty 84 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: important investigations ongoing about the abuse and including of children 85 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: within their church. 86 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 4: Widespread allegations of child sex abuse. 87 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: It is rampant and it's systemic to date. 88 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 4: A private investigator who runs a hotline for alleged victims 89 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 4: tells us she's received allergi against nine hundred and eighty 90 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 4: different perpetrators stemming back to the sixties. In February, the 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 4: FBI announced it was investigating the allegations. 92 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: A lot of these perpetrators were just moved around. The 93 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: gas lighting and the guilt is what has created such 94 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: a perfect breeding ground for the pedophilia that goes on. 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen some reports from around the world about 96 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: this group. The BBC reported the sect apparently coerced young 97 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: mothers to give up their babies, with hundreds of adoptions 98 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: are potentially happening between the nineteen fifties and nineteen nineties 99 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: in the UK, and meanwhile in Australia, survivors are fighting 100 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: for access to a national Redress Scheme, a compensation system 101 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: for child sex abuse survivors. Have you heard anything about 102 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: the former members in New Zealand. 103 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 3: Look, I've spoken to a lot of people that were 104 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: members of the church. Some of them have been abused 105 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 3: by people that older men and women. Some of them 106 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: know of others that have been abused. Some of them 107 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: know of the users. Police are looking into it and 108 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: we're hoping to hear very soon whether there'll be charges 109 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: or where that investigation goes. I think it's important to 110 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 3: say that in any religious group there are allegations of 111 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 3: this sort of thing happening, but this is really timely 112 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: at the moment, just because the FBI are looking into it. 113 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 3: The police are starting to make moves here, and I 114 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: think we will see very very soon what's going to 115 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: come out of that. You know, there'll be a lot 116 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: of people out there that may have something, have had 117 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: something happen to them, that haven't gone to police or 118 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 3: won't go to police. So there's always stories that you 119 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 3: hear from people in these groups about things that happen. 120 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: But it will, as I said, be very interesting to 121 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 3: see what comes out of this police investigation. 122 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: It's pretty hard to get any kind of numbers out 123 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: of this group. I've seen some numbers one hundred thousand 124 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: members believed worldwide. Do we have any idea how large 125 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: the presence is in New Zealand. 126 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 3: It's it's amatter. There's a couple of thousand around New 127 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: Zealand and there's quite a presence in christ Church. We've 128 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 3: actually been sent some information about you know, the number 129 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: of workers, which is the preachers. We know, you know, 130 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: we witnessed a meeting that had fifty or so people 131 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: turning up just to the Wednesday night meeting. And that's 132 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: just a one part of christ Church. So I think 133 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: it is it's I mean, it's never going to be 134 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: as big as the Catholic Church, of the Anglican Church, 135 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: et cetera, but it's a significant number for you know, 136 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: for being a small sort of insular sect. 137 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: So you mentioned Hamish Campbell. 138 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: He's a national MP and he had some kind of 139 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: association with the group, but it turns out he actually. 140 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: Downplayed his involvement in the beginning. 141 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: Hey yeah, Look, we've had three versions from Hamish about 142 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: his connection. 143 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: You know. 144 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: The first he told media that he he had an 145 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 3: association was the word he used to the group. He 146 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: didn't disclose anything further. The second time he used the 147 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: word connection, he said the connection was through his family. Again, 148 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 3: that's where he stopped. He had, you know, confirmed that 149 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: he was in fact a member of the church and 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: that he had hosted meetings, which a lot of ex 151 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: members have told me that they consider him an elder. 152 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: He's not confirmed any sort of label or ranking, but 153 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: a lot of people are claiming that he is an elder, 154 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: that he has hosted meetings, and that he and his 155 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 3: family are deeply embedded. As the words they've used in 156 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 3: this church, they're quite influential. So it's for us we've 157 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: just been asking this question. You know, what is your role? 158 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: You know, yes, there's a family connection because he you 159 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: are born into this church, his parents are in this church. 160 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 3: It's intergenerational. But you know, it didn't for me, it 161 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: didn't seem like a hard question. What is your role 162 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,479 Speaker 3: in this church? Do your host meetings? 163 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: Love? I have an association through my family. I've also 164 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 5: been a scientist for the last few years over quite 165 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 5: a broad broad worldview. So it's actually liberal. 166 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: So how good you explain that organization? 167 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 5: Well, look, I think it's a non denominational Christian group 168 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 5: trying to love the best way possible. 169 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: Have you raised the Hamish Campbell's association with the church 170 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: with them? 171 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: No, I haven't. 172 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: You know, as you well know, we're proud multicultural country. 173 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: People are free to celebrate their faces as they wish 174 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: from lots of different backgrounds. 175 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: What else did he say. 176 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: I mean, you would have asked him about the child 177 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: sex abuse allegations as well. 178 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: Look, he's referred that to police. At this point, he 179 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: claims he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved, that 180 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 3: he doesn't know of any of these historic abuse allegations. 181 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: He hasn't clarified or gone any further on either of 182 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 3: those points, but he has said that the right place 183 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: for this to be investigated is through the police, and 184 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: like all of us, you know, and he encourages people 185 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: to go to police if they've got an experience they're 186 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 3: worried about or want to report. So, I mean, in 187 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: a small group, a lot of people know a lot 188 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: of people. But at this point, Hamish Campbell is saying 189 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved in the abuse, 190 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 3: and he's not aware of the specific allegations. So obviously 191 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 3: we will keep going back to him if and we 192 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: needed as this investigation continues, as we will with the 193 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: church's leadership. You know, Hamish, whatever label he wants to use, 194 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: is considered an elder by some people. That's the claims 195 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: they're making. He hasn't used any wording around that, but 196 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: he's not a church leader he's not you know, the 197 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 3: overseer or the twice and he's not a preacher. The 198 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 3: questions will be put to those people as well, obviously 199 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: at an appropriate time. 200 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about Douglas Martin. 201 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: Doug Martin was an assistant principle here in Lincoln, which 202 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 3: is just outside of christ Church, respected, you know, trusted 203 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: member of the community. In twenty thirteen, he admitted that 204 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 3: he had filmed up the skirts of a lot of 205 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 3: young women and girls, unsuspecting victims, and he was sentenced 206 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: to home detention. The court heard at the time that 207 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: he was a church elder, but nothing more was said. 208 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: It now has emerged that he was an elder in 209 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: the Turbots and I have confirmed that he helped meetings 210 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: in his home, that his family. He's had a lot 211 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: of family members in the church. And again, like an 212 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: influential sort of embedded family, he was asked to or 213 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: he was stopped from holding these meetings, I think shortly 214 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: before he was convicted, and it's been suggested he's no 215 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: longer an active member in the church. We went to 216 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: see him and he wouldn't confirm anything. He didn't deny anything, 217 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: but he didn't confirm anything and said he had no 218 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 3: comment to make, and a lot of people have asked, 219 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: you know, why bring that up again, Well, it's if 220 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: we'd known about it at the time, it would have 221 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: been reported. It's not the fact that this religion small 222 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: and unusual and you know, slightly strange in some people's opinion. 223 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: It's not about what the members worship and what their 224 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: beliefs are. It's about who was holding positions of authority 225 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: and power and trust in this group. Who they are 226 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: and what they're doing, you know, whether they are a 227 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: convicted sex offender or whether they are you know, there's 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: various other occupations that whold leadership in this group, and 229 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: you know, if they need to be held account, they 230 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: will be. So for anyone that thinks that we're picking 231 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 3: on a particular church or a particular religion, it's not 232 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: about that. It's you know, making sure that these people 233 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 3: in leadership roles are held to account where they need 234 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: to be. 235 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: So where to from here? In it from here? 236 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 3: We will watch this police investigation with interest, you know, 237 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: like any investigation into you know, we've seen investigations at 238 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: Gloria Vale and we've seen investigations within the Catholic Church 239 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 3: and you know, other religious groups. It's we'll watch it 240 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: mostly what happens if if people are charged, we follow 241 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: that through the courts. At the moment, I'm speaking to 242 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: lot of ex members about their experiences, and I think, 243 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: you know, it's important to know why they're speaking out. 244 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: They want people to know what happens in this church. 245 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 3: They want people to know why they left. They want 246 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: this church to do better for various reasons, and that's 247 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 3: why they're sort of speaking at the moment, you know. 248 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 3: Going forward, I think there will be questions that need 249 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: to be asked of the church about how it's handled 250 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 3: things over the years and how it will protect its 251 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 3: people going forward. I think the most important thing though, is, 252 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: you know, just watching this police investigation, seeing what comes 253 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 3: of it, you know, holding people to account and that jurisdiction, 254 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: but also making sure that anyone that remains with the church, 255 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: particularly young people, will be protected in future, and that 256 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: you know, ultimately people are educated about what this group are, 257 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 3: what they stand for, and what they're doing in the community. 258 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Anna, Thank you. 259 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 260 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news at 261 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced 262 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a 263 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: sound engineer. 264 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 265 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 266 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 267 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.