1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: The National Library is planning another color of its books. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: This time. What's making it a bit controversial is that 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: quite a few of the books are key religious texts. 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: You're talking the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the Book 5 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: of Mormon. They're among about half a million books being 6 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: dumped to save a million dollars a year in storage costs. 7 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: Peter Linum is a professor emeritus of religion and History 8 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: at Massi University and with us. 9 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: Good morning, Peter, good morning, how are you. 10 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you. Do you mind the shredding 11 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: of the religious books? 12 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Well, I don't mind particularly, but my goodness, religions do mind. 13 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: You know, there are a whole set of books talking 14 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 2: about how properly to dispose of worn out religious texts. 15 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: And for example, Muslims who suspect that somebody has destroyed 16 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: a Quran are likely to kill the person for their misbehavior. 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: And Jews have a special part of the cemetery in 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: which properly you should bury the books with a set ritual. 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,279 Speaker 2: And for the Sikhs, and it's a very remarkable story, 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: they believe that their sacred scriptures are the living leader 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: of the church, so you must not on any account. 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: Suppose of them. You know, I could go on, it's 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: quite a story. 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: Okay, in which case should the National Library be offering 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: them to the religions themselves, these books and say you 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: can rehome them. 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's essential. I mean, I am scandalized 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: by the whole behavior of the National Library treating our 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: National Library effectively as a sort was second rate library. 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: It doesn't need to have everything, and I think it's 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: essential to preserve the books anyway, but for sacred texts 32 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: they must be treated with great care and reverence. And 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: I mean the attitude of book band de Belden who 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: made the comment, what was it that, oh, well, this 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: is a secular country, so we can do what we 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: want to with them. Well, that's that's the source of 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: all the problems of tensions between religions, when we fail 38 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: to recognize we may be secular. That doesn't make us 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: careless about other people. 40 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Very strongly held, but just on the idea that we 41 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: need to hold every kind of book that we have currently, 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a global world now, right, should we 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: not actually be specializing in New Zealand books? And if 44 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: you really really want to get your hands on something 45 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: that is available elsewhere, and your research and you travel elsewhere. 46 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: Well, for a start, the amazing thing is over the generations. 47 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: The National Library compiled a remarkable set of books that 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: made us an international library. By saying that we're only 49 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 2: going to preserve New Zealand books, we're saying that all 50 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: that we care about is our own culture and planning 51 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: to recognize that in most cases we're a derivation culture. 52 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: You know, we are depended upon other things. Yes, I 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: quite agree that a great thing that has happened in 54 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: recent years is the scanning of texts so that they 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: are very readily available to the scholar and the researcher. 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: But there is nothing like the real book. I can 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: tell you. I love the Nationial Library. I just love 58 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 2: going in and drawing upon its huge resources. 59 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant. It's lovely to talk to you, Peter. You 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: look after yourself. Peter Lyne and Professor Emeritus of Religion 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: and History at Massive University. Incidentally, I actually think that 62 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: I may have about three of Peter's books at my 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: house and I don't know where they are, so I'm 64 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: not going to discuss it with him. I had to 65 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: borrow some religious texts. From him to do a bit 66 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: of study, and then I don't think I gave them 67 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: back anyway. Maybe he'll get in touch with me after this. 68 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: Are we really that first? 69 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: By this? 70 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: Come on? I mean, look, I don't want to be 71 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to be dumping on anybody else's religion. 72 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm speaking from a Christian point of view, right, But 73 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: I mean the other day one of the cousins turned 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: up with a kid's Bible and I looked at it 75 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: and it was tatty, and I thought, when you turn around, mate, 76 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: that's going straight in the in the bin, right, Because 77 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I just go down the road by another 78 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: Bible if I want one. Anyway, I quite like the 79 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: idea of a fifty story building full of books. That's 80 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: that's quite cool. It's very modern. That seems to be 81 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: off the table now. 82 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: Actually. 83 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 85 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.