1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: So here's your fun step for this Friday. Last year, 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: there were eight hundred and ninety two thousand visa applications? Right? 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: How many of those were skilled work? Its turns out 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: and this is the thing I didn't know and blew 5 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: me away in the early hours of this morning. It 6 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: was one point three eight percent. One point three eight 7 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: percent twelve thousand. Order to General highlights this in a 8 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: report suggesting we need to be better at skilled visas. 9 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: No kidding from the Order to General's off as senior 10 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: performance auditor, Lucy Moorland is with us, Lucy, morning to 11 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: you morning. 12 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: Hello. 13 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Did you know the stuff going in? 14 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: When we go intowardits we always do a lot of research, 15 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: so we found it out on the way. 16 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Does it strike you as a person who does research 17 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: at one point three eight percent is not a very 18 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: high number. It might want to be slightly higher. 19 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: I wouldn't comment on that. I would say that the 20 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: one point see eight percent that we found are the 21 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: people that have the skills that New Zealand needs in 22 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: the medium to longer term. So it's very important that 23 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: the systems set up well to attract them. 24 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: So what are you telling us as a result of 25 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: your research. Are you telling us that if the system 26 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: was better set up that number would go up because 27 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: more people would apply, or are you telling us even 28 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: if we did have a good system, no one wants 29 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: to come to the country with any skills. 30 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: I think what we're saying is that the ONECD and 31 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: other research organizations have said that immigration systems play a 32 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: really important part, not only in processing visas, but attracting 33 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: the people that a country needs. And we know that 34 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 2: New Zealand's in a very competitive global market for skills. 35 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: So the more that the system is set up well 36 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: to work smoothly for those applicants, then the more it 37 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: can help them make a decision on whether or not 38 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: to come here. 39 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: Certainly, and how do you know whether we're set up well? 40 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: Do you make a comparison with other countries and how 41 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: do you do that? 42 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: Well, we looked at the New Zealand system and we 43 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: come up with criteria when we do our audits, and 44 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: we say what would it look like if it was good, 45 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: and we'd say it would be smooth and clear and consistent, fair, 46 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: and we use those factors and we look at MBI's 47 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: own promise to its customers, which also talks about certainty 48 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: and simplicity, and then we use that as our guide 49 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: to see whether we think we can see that in 50 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: the system, can you And we found that we could, 51 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: in some circumstances, in some parts of the system see 52 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: that working very well. We could see good information flowing 53 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: around the system for the quality of the audit and 54 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: decision making, for example. But in other places, like where 55 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: the technology comes in to help people track whether visa 56 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: is at any point in the process, we thought that 57 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: that could be very much improved. We know that people 58 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: are used to tracking a delivery or a food delivery 59 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: on their firing from minute to minute, and yet when 60 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: you come to try and see where your visa's at, 61 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: you might need to call the call center instead because 62 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 2: you can't see online and the systems aren't available to 63 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: help you see that. 64 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: And as calling the call center a nightmare, I wouldn't. 65 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: Call it a nightmare. But we know that when people 66 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: call the call center, they the question they ask most 67 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: often is where's my visa? And so clearly they want 68 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: to know, they want to know where their visa is, 69 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: and they want to see progress. Because of. 70 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: Charge a bit of money for this, is it? 71 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: Well, everybody pays fees to apply for a visa, certainly, 72 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: and the thing is, you know, for a residence visa decision, 73 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: it's can I live permanently in New Zealand or not, 74 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: So you know that is a really big decision. 75 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: How much of this I don't know how much of 76 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: this work in other departments you've done, but how much 77 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: of this is just all that's the government And technologically 78 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: speaking they're not up to much and never had been. 79 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: I haven't worked across other audits. This is the first 80 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: audit I've worked on for the office. But I know 81 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 2: that Immigration New Zealand are very mindful of the fact 82 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: that they need to get their technology improved in order 83 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 2: to help people do this good. 84 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: So what you've discovered they are cognizant of, and I'm 85 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: assuming at the highest level I Minister Stanford would be 86 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: a wear of all of this and somebody is working 87 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: on it. 88 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: I couldn't speak for the Minister, but certainly yesterday when 89 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: we published our report, Immigration New Zealand said to us 90 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: that they accepted our recommendations and that they were hoping 91 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: to do work towards some of them, and that they 92 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: were also working on some of them already, so that's 93 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: a very positive thing and good outcome for the office. 94 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: All Right, Lucy, nice to talk to you. Go well, 95 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: Lucy Moulin, who is with the Auditor General's Office. For 96 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 97 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 98 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.