1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: The FDA with India. What's going on here? The leader 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: of the labor parties apparently finally written to the Trade 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Minister with their various concerns. Basically the text doesn't match 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: the public utterances of the government, is what they're saying. 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: But the government of course needs labours numbers given New 6 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Zealand first, doesn't want to bar of it either. Anyway. 7 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: The Trade Minister Tom McClay is back with this good morning, 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: hey Mike, Come on the labor issues are what specifically 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: and are they material? 10 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: Well to second letter that mister Hopkins has sent to us, 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: and they are similar to the first time we've had 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: a formal meeting where we went through it or with 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: negotiators with Chrissy there. Plus is there a spokesman, Damian O'Connor. 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: There's been a lot of engagement and so on. So look, 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: I've had Damon O'Connor with me off at the Double 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: German's Dral meeting down in Cameroon. Because trade is meant 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: to be bipartisan. We've been going through it a lot. 18 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: There's a formal meeting I've set up for them again 19 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: with the negotiators and the experts to talk it through 20 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: and we'll see. But I don't see anything material in 21 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: what they are raising other than missing the point. It's 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: one point four billion people and every other country of 23 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: the world would like the trade deal we've got. 24 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: Is Damien on the same page as Chris. 25 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: Well. So Damien knows a lot about trade negotiation. He's 26 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: done a couple of deals. He did the EU one. 27 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: He's very experienced. He's in a space where they want 28 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: to know a little bit more. But I think he 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: probably sees the benefits of the agreement first rather than 30 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: some of the small technical detail they're going through now. 31 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: But look, we're going to be We're going to do 32 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 2: this in good faith. As I said, there's a formal 33 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: meeting I've set up for them tomorrow as long as 34 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: they know they can look at the advice that we've 35 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: got and go through it. But it's really straightforward. They 36 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: need to come to a point of making a decision 37 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: pretty certain. The legal scrubbing is almost finished. We then 38 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: have to sign the agreement. Parliament then scrutinizes it fully 39 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: and gives a report back, and then then we have 40 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: a vote on the legislation later on. I will be 41 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: lucky to sign it put it in parliament, so every 42 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand and all the parliament, and can you ask 43 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: the questions and go through it, not just mister Hopkins 44 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: in the clothes right. 45 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: So it will be signed and it will go to parliament. 46 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: Would you do that willingly without having the numbers and 47 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: knowing you have the numbers. 48 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: Well, well, the legislation to enacted is much further down 49 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: the track. It's not the first part. So the first 50 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: part is of the trade agreement. You negotiate a conclude. 51 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: So so they give you an example with the CPTPP, 52 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: which Labor in the end did because the government change, 53 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: they didn't have the numbers, because the Greens wouldn't support it, 54 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: they signed it. They put it in parliament and it's 55 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: called you know, it has the first scrutiny. So it's 56 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: the agreement that's table. It goes off to a committee, 57 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: people submit, they go through it, they have their say 58 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: on it, to take some period of time, comes back 59 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: with a report. Then there afterwards you make the case 60 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: for where you want to get your numbers. Labor came 61 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: to us and we gave them support for it back then, 62 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: so this isn't unheard of, unprecedented, but Mike's the high 63 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: quality deal one point four billion people. It is important 64 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: Parliament gets to scrutinize it, not just individual party's closed door. 65 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of other things while i've got your 66 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: silver fern farms have announced their suspending trade up into 67 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: the Gulf. Is this going to become a thing. 68 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: Well, it is concerning. I was talking to the UA 69 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: Trade Minister just today or so a guy so I 70 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: met with Saudi minister stuff. You know, I've just been 71 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: off to the doubleto meeting the Cameroon and ultimately they're 72 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: working through their logistics and how they get stuff in 73 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: and out. And so I think for silverfurn farms it 74 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 2: wasn't a large part of their trade and probably they're 75 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: saying the costs making their product and prohibitive. There what 76 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: I heard from the UI Trade Minister. As they are 77 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: working on logistics to make sure goods move freely. The 78 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: challenges are set is costs and they're working on that too. 79 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: But it's going to be with us for a while, 80 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: so I don't think we're going to see this widespread. 81 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: But obviously silver ferns have just decided that, you know, 82 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: the costs don't work for them just at the moment. 83 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Right the wto I read a piece the other day 84 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: that I never thought i'd get to ask anyone about, 85 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: but it turns out you're the man. So the thing 86 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: with the US and India and extensions and America wants 87 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: a longer extension and India wants a shorter extension, and 88 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: there was a standoff one do you know what I'm 89 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: talking about? And two is that material? And three is 90 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: it getting sorted? 91 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: So that's over e commerce. So it's an e commerce miratorium. 92 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: Two years ago. I was the negotiator and we got 93 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: it extended. What those means of countries in the world, 94 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: so they won't put tariffs on on e commerce. America 95 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: wants it to be permanent moratorium, as I do, and 96 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: it is going to support them. India actually was in 97 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 2: the same space. They moved a long way or willing to. 98 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: In the end it was a couple of other countries 99 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: I think Turkey and Brazil. That block is deeply disappointing. Yes, 100 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: it will be worked out overnight. I've signed a declaration 101 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: with the US, as many other countries have, saying we 102 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: take their commitment not to do these sorts of things. 103 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: We won't put the tariffs in place. It will get 104 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: worked out, but fundamentally that's a problem with the W 105 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: It's a consensus organization, and one or two countries can 106 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 2: hold your hostage. And so it's going to take a 107 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: real shake up because a lot of countries have becoming 108 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: frustrated with the lack of progress there. 109 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: Actually, while I've got you, I'm enjoying this, are you 110 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: coordinating in any way the New Zealand companies who are 111 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: looking to sue the Americans for refunds on tariffs. 112 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: No, I'm certainly not coordinating, and ultimately a number of 113 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: them are looking at themselves the advice we're given to them, 114 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: as you get some advice. But I think this is 115 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: going to get sorted out by the US courts. Quite honestly. 116 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: I think what will happen is a couple of other companies, 117 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: including US companies, will take court action against the US 118 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: and the courts will decide. And so in the meantime, 119 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: our trade is still going up with them. We're still 120 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: trading a lot. In fact, we're sort a four percent 121 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: increase over the even with the tariffs, but back down 122 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: to ten percent. I met with Jamison Greer who's there 123 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: my equivalent over there, and we talked a little bit 124 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: about it. Told them some things are doing that you 125 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: know they shouldn't be. For New Zealand, Ie, I think 126 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: there's going to be an investigation into lamb e sports 127 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: there Australia New Zealand, we might see a higher tariff 128 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: and so on. Have made the case that they shouldn't 129 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: be doing that. So we're working through all those sorts 130 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: of things. But ultimately I reckon that there's going to 131 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 2: be a lot of litigation in the US around those 132 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: tariffs before it's paid back, and for some of our exporterers, 133 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: they'll want to sit back and see where it goes 134 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: before they take that big step to spend a lot 135 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: of money on lawyers. 136 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: With the uncertainty where's that when's that investigation on lamb coming? 137 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: So I suspect they'll start it in the next month 138 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: or so. It's not a fast process. It's a little 139 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: bit like we've said, they did went into wood products 140 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: from all around the world and that came out as 141 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: the ten percent tariff. Ultimately, Australia, New Zealand and say 142 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: a lot more lamb into that market than the US 143 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 2: producers and so politically having a look at it. I 144 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: think they're going to see them do this a lot though. 145 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: So for instance, we know that that they you know, 146 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 2: the ten percent tariff in place now after the court 147 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: ruling is only there for one hundred and fifty days, 148 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 2: so they're looking at other ways to put that tariff 149 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: wall back up. And I think we'll see a lot 150 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: of investigations over this sort of thing many countries in 151 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 2: the world, and that they'll find another way to put 152 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 2: the ten or fifteen back on. Frustrating and annoying, but 153 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: you know, stepping away from that, importantly, we're selling them 154 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 2: more now than were before they put tariffs up, which 155 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: makes it a bit hard to make the case of 156 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: the harm that tariffs are doing. Just does mean that 157 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: yours consumers are paying. 158 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: More good stuff, all right, make nice to catch up, 159 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Tom mclach thank you, Trade minister. Back from Cameroon. 160 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: That reference to silver ferns, he was right. It's worrying. 161 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: They had a whole bunk. They had one hundred and 162 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: forty containers when the war broke out in that part 163 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: of the world, and it's come at a time for 164 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: them when they're back in profitability and they have been 165 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: losing money, so it's good. Most of the containers were 166 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: able to be moved through other ports, so that's the 167 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: encouraging bit. So they're agile, but it had pause production 168 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: into the Middle East until they got clarity. But what 169 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: have they got? Twelve percent of their lamb and five 170 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: percent of their beef goes up to the Gulf State. 171 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: So it's not what you want, but equally, as Tobas says, 172 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: not the end of the world either. 173 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 174 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,559 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 175 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.