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Speaker 1: There are more ways to wealth with chairs ease, save

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Speaker 1: with a great rate, ensure your car with no worries.

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Speaker 1: We'll join the key. We see this scheme with real choice.

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Speaker 1: It's your wealth, your way, do more with chares ease.

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Speaker 2: Money is not just money, right, it's it has impacts

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Speaker 2: on the whole alastitude, I think, and there it can

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Speaker 2: be a deal breaker. I went from being a bachelor

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Speaker 2: to someone who you know, whose income was for me

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Speaker 2: to spend on food and electric guitar and whatever too.

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Speaker 2: Now this money coming in is for all of us

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Speaker 2: investing in family life. We feel like these are the

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Speaker 2: golden years.

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Speaker 3: Krakoto. I'm Garth Bray and we're doing things a little

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Speaker 3: differently on Shared Lunch for the next few weeks. More

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Speaker 3: than money is about exploring the wealth choices that change us.

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Speaker 3: Let's open up the conversation about what wealth really means

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Speaker 3: beyond investing. We'll hear from some familiar folks and chat

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Speaker 3: about the choices they've made on their wealth journey. Today

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Speaker 3: we talk to arin Z Afternoon's host and renaissance man

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Speaker 3: Jesse Mulligan. But first, some important information you should always

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Speaker 3: consider before investing.

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Speaker 4: The experience is shared in this episode are not advice

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Speaker 4: or a recommendation or opinion by guests to invest or

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Speaker 4: act in the manner they have. An appearance on the

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Speaker 4: series is not an endorsement by Chares's of the views

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Speaker 4: of the presenters or guests. They're not financial experts and

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Speaker 4: their views of their own. It is also not an

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Speaker 4: endorsement of Chazy's by Jesse Mulligan or ron Z.

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Speaker 5: Jesse, mind, I introduce you as I mean, I meant

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Speaker 5: that a renaissance man. You've been hosting iron Z's afternoons

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Speaker 5: for a decade, right, and before that you were hosting

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Speaker 5: a project.

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Speaker 3: And I think if anyone is thinking about eating out

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Speaker 3: in Auckland, they would be one vice to check first

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Speaker 3: with what you've thought about the place that me and

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Speaker 3: you the table, not that it really matters, right. So

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Speaker 3: the Italians got this word spreads up to means like

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Speaker 3: staid insutions or nonchalance, the ability to make it look easy.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: This is you to me, which is hugely assuring when

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Speaker 3: we're sitting across the table having a conversation here.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you, Garth. I do

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Speaker 2: it one hour at a time, the day to time

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Speaker 2: you even't mentioned the four children, who are probably my

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Speaker 2: greatest achievement of all keeping them alive and somehow staying

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Speaker 2: married for the love of my life, so me al

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Speaker 2: the work stuffs kind of.

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Speaker 3: Extra and I guess that gives you. All of those

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Speaker 3: conversations and all that experience gives you. It's an abundance

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Speaker 3: of perspectives, right, How did they play into your life?

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting. I hadn't listened to much aren Z's

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Speaker 2: before I took that job on, and I've I've found

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Speaker 2: it a bit just a ten year education at all astecs.

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Speaker 2: You know, I know so much more about the world,

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Speaker 2: or have experienced so many more different perspectives of the

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Speaker 2: world now than ten years ago. That includes money. You know,

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Speaker 2: we talk about money a lot. We talk about sort

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Speaker 2: of macroeconomic stuff a lot, and so yeah, I do.

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Speaker 2: I mean with my restaurant reviewing, when I started, I

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Speaker 2: just gave it a go, really, and whether I was

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Speaker 2: any good or not, I've kind of now been doing

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Speaker 2: it so long that when I go to a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: I can compare it to a thousand restaurants I've been

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Speaker 2: to before, and I sort of feel that's the same

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Speaker 2: with information and perspectives. Is that now I just have

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Speaker 2: the advantage when someone comes to me with an idea

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Speaker 2: or an angle, but I can at least think about

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Speaker 2: that ten years of accumulated knowledge before I come up

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Speaker 2: with my response to it.

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Speaker 3: How many conversations or how many interviews do you think

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Speaker 3: you would do in a week.

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Speaker 2: I think I've done ten thousand on radio, so I

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Speaker 2: have it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that's mastery level there.

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Speaker 2: Ten a day and it's fifty a week and two

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Speaker 2: and a half thousand years something like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So given that you can kind of filter that information

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Speaker 3: when it comes in, does that help you when you're

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Speaker 3: thinking about money, when you're thinking about money choices? I

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Speaker 3: think so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I'm quite a conservative money guy,

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Speaker 2: and that's partly to the fact that I interviewed Mary

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Speaker 2: Holm as a personal finance expert once a fortnight, and

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Speaker 2: she's great. You know, she's the education we all need.

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Speaker 2: I sometimes say I worship with the Church of Mary,

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Speaker 2: but she's quite conservative, and so I've kind of inherited

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Speaker 2: that approach to life. So I'm probably never going to

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Speaker 2: become a multi millionaire on the latest cryptocurrency, but at

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Speaker 2: least I know.

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Speaker 3: I won't be the most broke guy in the room.

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Speaker 3: That idea of trying to understand of wealth and abundance,

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Speaker 3: what does that really mean to you? What does wealth mean?

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Speaker 2: I don't have any aspirations to become rich or to

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Speaker 2: become wealthy for me and I say for us in

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Speaker 2: our marriage and in our family, just to have enough

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Speaker 2: for a good life.

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Speaker 3: Really, So that idea of wealth then being just enough

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Speaker 3: to get you where you are and to maintain what

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Speaker 3: you're doing. How does that influence the kind of choices

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Speaker 3: that you're making in life.

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Speaker 2: Then it's usually day to day that we will, generally,

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Speaker 2: if we see a chance to invest in something that

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Speaker 2: the family will love and get ten or fifteen years

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Speaker 2: you out of we'll do it now. So we think

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Speaker 2: about it as like, spend the money now, have a

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Speaker 2: great family life, rather than save it for this destination

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Speaker 2: down the track. So I guess I'm more in the

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Speaker 2: camp of using it while you've got it, rub and

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Speaker 2: waiting for some distant kind of thing to happen. You know.

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Speaker 2: I've got friends who are like, hey, well we're going

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Speaker 2: to buy a beach house. We're going to wait to

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Speaker 2: the kids are eighteen years old, before we do it,

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Speaker 2: or we're going to travel, but we're going to wait

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Speaker 2: till the kids have left the nest before we travel.

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Speaker 2: And I kind of think, if you're going to do it,

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like you're a you're a drinker. Well it's

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Speaker 3: a fuzzy person.

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Speaker 2: But are you going to say that sounds like you're

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Speaker 2: a drinker? Who told you? Yeah, which is not to

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Speaker 2: say that we splurge. In fact, we buy almost nothing

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Speaker 2: for just for the fun of it, but investing in

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Speaker 2: family life, you know, we feel like this is the

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Speaker 2: good years, not the years to wait through until the

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Speaker 2: good years arrive.

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Speaker 3: So that's the real well thread of spending time with

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Speaker 3: your family, Yeah, or at least spending money so the

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Speaker 3: family can do something or you're doing something else, do

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Speaker 3: not realize to make more money to help them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the We feel like these are the

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Speaker 2: golden years rather than the golden years being something that

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Speaker 2: we're waiting for when we've got the time to ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Is that But that's how we sort of talk to

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Speaker 3: live things, aren't we in a sense to look ahead,

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Speaker 3: to plan for a retirement future, to always sort of

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Speaker 3: delay gratification. Study after study seas if you can delay gratification,

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Speaker 3: you'll be a success. And this sounds like you were

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Speaker 3: sort of running it a little bit against that and

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Speaker 3: just being a little bit more present right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm thinking of an interview it did

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Speaker 2: recently where they, you know, is that famous marshmallow tests

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Speaker 2: where they give it a three year old one marshmallow now,

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Speaker 2: or if they cannot eat it, they get two marshmallows

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Speaker 2: in ten minutes. And the moral of that is meant

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Speaker 2: to be that it's in your interests to wait the

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Speaker 2: two marshmallows. But this well intellectualized talking to said, no,

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Speaker 2: you got it all wrong. Eat the marshmallow while it's there,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, apply that to every aspect of your life,

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Speaker 2: because you know you could die tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Very home would say, have a marsh nine now, maybe

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Speaker 3: another one in six months. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

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Speaker 2: She'd have a way of distributing the first marshmallow over

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Speaker 2: the ten minutes, so there's no chance of getting it

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Speaker 2: wrong by nibble. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So if I can ask you about a financial

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Speaker 3: decision that you've made, and given what you're telling me,

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Speaker 3: is it's important to you that it delivers something of

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Speaker 3: quality to your family. Well, can you share a little

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Speaker 3: bit about what was a great financial decision.

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Speaker 2: I think it was combining our finances as a couple

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Speaker 2: the monment Victoria got pregnant with their child, so we

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Speaker 2: kind of did things in reverse. She got pregnant, then

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Speaker 2: we moved in together, then we got married. But actually

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Speaker 2: the decision to go all in from kind of the

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Speaker 2: moment we were about to become a family. I'm really glad

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Speaker 2: we did that. I know it's not for everyone, but

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Speaker 2: and the reason I'm glad we did it is that

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Speaker 2: from that moment, all those conversations about you paying for

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Speaker 2: this from my paying for this as a benefit the

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Speaker 2: family doesn't benefit the family Joergy, I mean for dinner.

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Speaker 2: I know for the last week I paid for your petrol.

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Speaker 2: We never had a conversation like that again, so I

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Speaker 2: think that's kind of important for me. It changed my perspective,

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Speaker 2: like really literally changed my perspective. And that I went

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Speaker 2: from being a bachelor to someone who, you know, whose

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Speaker 2: income was for me to spend on food and electric

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Speaker 2: guitar and whatever too. Now this money coming in is

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Speaker 2: for all of us. I think that's kind of philosophically

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Speaker 2: or intellectually, that's quite useful to have that. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then just the I think maybe it kind of

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Speaker 2: signals that you're all in as well, and in an

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Speaker 2: age of individualism, it's kind of a nice thing to say, well,

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Speaker 2: from now on, we're a family unit, not to individuals

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Speaker 2: who are kind of fighting it out and work. The

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Speaker 2: other point I wanted to make about it is it's

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Speaker 2: a way of thinking about your relationship over time. So

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Speaker 2: in that moment when she was about to go on

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Speaker 2: maternity leave, she was about to go to almost zero

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Speaker 2: in jims of income, and I was going to be

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Speaker 2: the sole income earner. But at the time that maybe

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Speaker 2: feels unfair or like one person's you know, bring it

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Speaker 2: all in the other one isn't. But then, actually, if

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Speaker 2: you're thinking of your relationship over the forty to fifty years,

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Speaker 2: there will be times, particularly when you work in the media,

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Speaker 2: where you're income dwindles to nothing and she brings it in.

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Speaker 2: So you're really kind of, yeah, you're thinking about the

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Speaker 2: relationship over many decades, and I think that might make

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Speaker 2: it easier for some people to combine finances.

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Speaker 3: Were there any kind of other sacrifices or other things

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Speaker 3: you had to change to make that work.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: I do now feel like I have to ask permission

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Speaker 2: before I spend money on myself. Is that embarrassing to say?

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Speaker 2: As husband?

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Speaker 3: I think it's a common experience. I wouldn't say I

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Speaker 3: would say that, Yeah, if you don't there are some consequences.

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Speaker 3: You talked a bit about sort of slipping to one

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Speaker 3: income as a result of that. Would that be kind

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Speaker 3: of an example of a tough time in your life

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Speaker 3: financially or.

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Speaker 2: I think the toughest time has been rising interest rates

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Speaker 2: over the last few years. You know, the renovation to

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Speaker 2: make room for the extra baby seemed like a no

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Speaker 2: brainer at the time. You know, people were no one

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Speaker 2: members this now. But people were saying, we're in an

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Speaker 2: era of permanently low interest rates. I mean, they could

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Speaker 2: go up, but they're not going to And then they

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Speaker 2: went up, probably as fast as they've ever gone up

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Speaker 2: in human history. So that was a that was a

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Speaker 2: pretty sharp shock to say.

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Speaker 3: For you and friends and people you knew.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know if it's always

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Speaker 2: I don't know if people always talk about it. People

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Speaker 2: are always keen to tell you when things have gone

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Speaker 2: well for them. Financially, they can go a little quiet

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Speaker 2: when things are tough. But yeah, I think it's been

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Speaker 2: a strain. And also I get the sense that it's

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Speaker 2: been a strain on relationships as well. I think when

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Speaker 2: times are tight, it's actually it can be a it

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Speaker 2: can be tough to hold on. We haven't had that situation,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we know people who a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who split through those kind of COVID and the

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Speaker 2: aftermath years. And I do wonder if money is a

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Speaker 2: if no cause, NOBE catalyst.

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Speaker 3: Because they haven't made the piece that you've made in

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Speaker 3: terms of how you handle money, or because it's just

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Speaker 3: a simple scarcity issue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just money is not just money rights.

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Speaker 2: It has impacts on the whole relationship. I think in

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Speaker 2: the it can be a deal breaker, I think, or

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Speaker 2: at least the straw that breaks camel's back.

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Speaker 3: So has that changed how you view the future of

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Speaker 3: your wealth now going through that experience, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's just a reminder that no one knows what's

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Speaker 2: coming next, you know, and nobody knows. No one could

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Speaker 2: pick the market, nobody. There's been study after study after

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Speaker 2: study that nobody not the best fund manager in the world,

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Speaker 2: knows what's going to happen next. I mean that's very

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Speaker 2: true of things like currency. It's also true of shares,

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Speaker 2: and it's also I think true as we've seen of

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Speaker 2: interest rates as well. So I think all you can

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Speaker 2: do is prepare for a world where there's no guarantees.

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Speaker 3: So if we're talking about something that's worked for you

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Speaker 3: that you want to pass on, yeah, what would you

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Speaker 3: pass on? Jesse, I've got more of it.

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Speaker 2: Don't do what I do? Okay? So in New Zealand's

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Speaker 2: you get five hundred dollars free from the governments through

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Speaker 2: here we say if you put one thousand dollars in

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Speaker 2: a calendar year, right, so you've got up until June

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Speaker 2: thirtieth to contribute one thousand dollars and they will give

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Speaker 2: you a free five hundred dollars, a fifty percent return

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Speaker 2: on your money. The best thing to do is to

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Speaker 2: put in twenty bucks a week and then never think

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Speaker 2: about it again. What I do is, on around June

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Speaker 2: twenty seven, I frantically call my Quisab provider and say,

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Speaker 2: what do I need to do to get this thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars in time for the June thirty deadline?

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Speaker 3: And I've done that for the last I reckon nine

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Speaker 3: ten years.

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Speaker 2: So news resolution for me. I've suddenly thought of one.

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Speaker 2: Set up an ap for twenty bucks a week.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do it.

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Speaker 2: I certainly won't go I won't do it this year,

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Speaker 2: I won't do it next year.

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Speaker 3: But you should do it. Jersey Mulligan, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Thanks and thank you for listening. If you're doing that,

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Speaker 3: you're probably on Spotify or Apple, or review your podcast

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Speaker 3: from If you're watching, you watching us on YouTube. And

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Speaker 3: if you like what you heard, tell us and tell

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Speaker 3: us what you'd like to hear next. That's us for

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Speaker 3: now for the two.

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Speaker 4: More Than Money is a series about the wealth choices

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