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Speaker 1: Another big move from the government as they replace the

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Speaker 1: Health New Zealand Board with the Commission that there is

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Speaker 1: a massive budget blayer of about one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: million issue a month and the claims that their layers

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Speaker 1: of management so thick no one has a clue where

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Speaker 1: the money's going and what is being spent on. The

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Speaker 1: former Health New Zealand chair Rob Campbell's with us on

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Speaker 1: this Rob Morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: As I watched the Prime Minister yesterday, how much is

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Speaker 1: politics and how much real? Is there that much management?

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Speaker 1: Does nobody know what's going on? Is it that gargantuinely

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Speaker 1: a cockup?

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of politics and it looked for our

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Speaker 2: problems and our health system moments getting anyone about that

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Speaker 2: and to fly to Aura. Hasn't been able to deal

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Speaker 2: with them as quickly as many people hope you can.

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Speaker 2: And we can go into the reasons for that. But

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Speaker 2: there's also a lot of politics in this most recent statement.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so did the board deserve to get sacked or not?

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Speaker 2: Board has actually disappeared themselves, so there wasn't anyone left

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Speaker 2: to sack by the time they made this decision. Apart

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Speaker 2: from the ones they just appointed. So it's a bit

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Speaker 2: dramatic to say they sacked the board. The board mainly

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Speaker 2: left because they weren't happy with how it was going.

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Speaker 1: Were they not happy with how it was going? Because

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Speaker 1: it does seem weird that when you look at the

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Speaker 1: numbers they were forecasting, you know, at best some sort

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Speaker 1: of surplus, maybe about break even. Whops, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: it's one hundred and thirty million dollars a month. How

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Speaker 1: does that work?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly I can't understand that from outside. What

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Speaker 2: I would say is is when someone blows a budget,

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Speaker 2: there's a couple of possibilities. One is that there've been laxed.

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Speaker 2: The other is that the budget was never right for

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Speaker 2: the start, and I suspect that it's a mix of

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Speaker 2: both here. I suspect that the original budgeting and the

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Speaker 2: appropriations that were made were never properly adequate. We're never adequate,

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Speaker 2: and that therefore it's been almost impossible to manage to it.

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Speaker 2: And that comes back partly to the board, partly to management,

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Speaker 2: but significantly also to the ministry. The ministry, you've got

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Speaker 2: to remember, presided over the cockup that's our health system

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Speaker 2: for a long time. It wrote the new rules, very

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Speaker 2: much people from outside consultancies. It's presided over. It's still

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Speaker 2: the steward of the system. It gets all the information

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Speaker 2: that the board gets, and yet it wasn't calling out

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Speaker 2: anything about this. So I'm not saying the board has responsibility,

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Speaker 2: far from it. But the Ministry should not escape from this.

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Speaker 2: It's the ministry which is supposed to be stewarding the system.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good insight, well done, appreciate it. Rob Campbell form

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Speaker 1: a chair because Luxeon was at pains yesterday to say,

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Speaker 1: it's not the money, this thirty billion dollars, we just

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Speaker 1: want quality spent.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio