1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,413 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack tame podcast 2 00:00:10,613 --> 00:00:11,933 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,893 --> 00:00:15,653 Speaker 2: Sixteen minutes past nine on newstalks 'bu with Jack Tamee 4 00:00:15,693 --> 00:00:19,053 Speaker 2: forroadcasting live out of Washington, d C. This morning, Get Ajack. 5 00:00:19,093 --> 00:00:20,893 Speaker 2: I've put one thousand dollars on the fact that Donald 6 00:00:20,893 --> 00:00:23,253 Speaker 2: Trump is going to win on Tuesday, says Ben. So 7 00:00:23,373 --> 00:00:25,253 Speaker 2: there's been Ben is one of these people who's feeling 8 00:00:25,253 --> 00:00:27,053 Speaker 2: a whole lot more confident in making a call than 9 00:00:27,093 --> 00:00:29,333 Speaker 2: I am. I certainly would not be putting any money 10 00:00:29,693 --> 00:00:31,973 Speaker 2: on this race so far. Jack, really enjoying your reports 11 00:00:31,973 --> 00:00:34,733 Speaker 2: from the US. Feels like a really, really tense time. 12 00:00:34,773 --> 00:00:37,573 Speaker 2: How does it feel on the ground in DC? You 13 00:00:37,653 --> 00:00:39,693 Speaker 2: know what is interesting. I was here four years ago 14 00:00:39,773 --> 00:00:43,773 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump and Joe Biden, and at this stage, 15 00:00:44,053 --> 00:00:47,613 Speaker 2: right before the election, all throughout central Washington, d C. 16 00:00:47,933 --> 00:00:50,573 Speaker 2: Crews were going around boarding up all of the windows, 17 00:00:50,733 --> 00:00:53,333 Speaker 2: so all of the businesses, all of the hotels, everything 18 00:00:53,413 --> 00:00:56,253 Speaker 2: in downtown Washington, d C was boarded up ahead of 19 00:00:56,293 --> 00:00:59,773 Speaker 2: the election because they were expecting potential civil unrest. Now, 20 00:00:59,853 --> 00:01:04,173 Speaker 2: nothing eventuated in the immediacy of the election four years ago, 21 00:01:04,213 --> 00:01:06,693 Speaker 2: but it's interesting because this time round despite what on 22 00:01:06,813 --> 00:01:10,293 Speaker 2: January sixth, after the last election, there is very little 23 00:01:10,293 --> 00:01:13,693 Speaker 2: in terms of additional security that's obvious for businesses. So 24 00:01:13,733 --> 00:01:15,653 Speaker 2: I think I've seen like two businesses that have been 25 00:01:16,053 --> 00:01:18,413 Speaker 2: boarded up, but apart from that nothing at this stage. 26 00:01:18,493 --> 00:01:19,973 Speaker 2: If you want to send us some message ninety two 27 00:01:20,013 --> 00:01:22,093 Speaker 2: ninety two as the text number Jacket News talks, he'd 28 00:01:22,093 --> 00:01:24,853 Speaker 2: be dot co dot in z's the emailageries. Don't forget 29 00:01:24,853 --> 00:01:27,093 Speaker 2: that if you are texting me that standard text costs 30 00:01:27,093 --> 00:01:30,173 Speaker 2: supply blah blah blah. Right now, though Kevin Milne is 31 00:01:30,173 --> 00:01:31,933 Speaker 2: with us this morning more than a Kevin. 32 00:01:32,333 --> 00:01:35,573 Speaker 3: Head Morning Jack, I thought we should stick with the 33 00:01:35,653 --> 00:01:40,173 Speaker 3: with the US elections actually, and rather than bore everybody 34 00:01:40,373 --> 00:01:43,973 Speaker 3: with my in my opinions on the matter, it would 35 00:01:44,213 --> 00:01:47,093 Speaker 3: be much more important, I think to have more of yours. 36 00:01:47,613 --> 00:01:50,013 Speaker 3: And I've put together a few questions, and I'd just 37 00:01:50,173 --> 00:01:53,933 Speaker 3: like to ask you on behalf of the listeners. Are 38 00:01:53,973 --> 00:01:56,533 Speaker 3: you are you happy to Yeah? 39 00:01:56,573 --> 00:01:59,693 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, I'll do my best. I'll do my best. 40 00:02:00,213 --> 00:02:05,133 Speaker 3: Right. The first one, is Trump's popularity still a mystery 41 00:02:05,333 --> 00:02:09,213 Speaker 3: to Democrat lined Americans or do they now at least 42 00:02:09,653 --> 00:02:11,533 Speaker 3: get why he's so popular? 43 00:02:12,533 --> 00:02:16,813 Speaker 2: Okay, great question. I think many of them have a 44 00:02:16,813 --> 00:02:20,493 Speaker 2: better understanding of why people voted for Donald Trump in 45 00:02:20,493 --> 00:02:23,093 Speaker 2: the first place. And I think what's interesting to me 46 00:02:23,373 --> 00:02:26,493 Speaker 2: in this election is how much people are talking about NAFTA. 47 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:29,053 Speaker 2: That's a name that might be familiar to some people. 48 00:02:29,093 --> 00:02:31,773 Speaker 2: That's the North American Free Trade Agreement that was signed 49 00:02:31,773 --> 00:02:35,213 Speaker 2: by Bill Clinton. Came into force thirty years ago, and 50 00:02:35,253 --> 00:02:39,453 Speaker 2: it fundamentally changed the manufacturing industry in the US, and 51 00:02:39,493 --> 00:02:42,173 Speaker 2: that all of a sudden, it made sense for big 52 00:02:42,173 --> 00:02:45,133 Speaker 2: companies in the Midwest to send their factories overseas, send 53 00:02:45,133 --> 00:02:48,933 Speaker 2: their manufacturing overseas, and all of those middle class jobs 54 00:02:49,013 --> 00:02:52,453 Speaker 2: in the Midwest disappeared. Now, I think for decades people 55 00:02:52,493 --> 00:02:54,893 Speaker 2: basically forgot about the people who had been working in 56 00:02:54,973 --> 00:02:57,213 Speaker 2: those factories, and all of a sudden, when Donald Trump 57 00:02:57,293 --> 00:02:59,493 Speaker 2: was elected for the first time, there was a bit 58 00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:02,453 Speaker 2: of a aha, wake up moment for lots of Democrats 59 00:03:02,493 --> 00:03:05,133 Speaker 2: who were like, you know what, Actually, we haven't supported 60 00:03:05,133 --> 00:03:09,133 Speaker 2: the tens of millions of peace people for whose lives 61 00:03:09,173 --> 00:03:12,613 Speaker 2: are materially worse off than their parents' generation. So I 62 00:03:12,613 --> 00:03:16,773 Speaker 2: think democrats understand that now. That being said, I reckon 63 00:03:16,813 --> 00:03:20,133 Speaker 2: a lot of Democrats still don't understand how Donald Trump 64 00:03:20,213 --> 00:03:25,013 Speaker 2: supporters can reconcile some of his personal qualities, some of 65 00:03:25,013 --> 00:03:28,653 Speaker 2: his character qualities with his leadership. I think a lot 66 00:03:28,693 --> 00:03:31,493 Speaker 2: of people are still totally perplexed by that. 67 00:03:32,293 --> 00:03:35,973 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, would you accept that Trump's popularity is still 68 00:03:36,293 --> 00:03:39,893 Speaker 3: a mystery to most New Zealanders who see him as 69 00:03:39,933 --> 00:03:43,453 Speaker 3: little more than a buffoon. I mean, what do you think? 70 00:03:44,093 --> 00:03:47,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, good guy. I mean, I think if you were 71 00:03:47,613 --> 00:03:51,213 Speaker 2: a pole New Zealanders, a majority probably wouldn't support Donald Trump. 72 00:03:51,253 --> 00:03:53,213 Speaker 2: But I think you'd be surprised actually by the number 73 00:03:53,253 --> 00:03:56,333 Speaker 2: of Donald Trump supporters. And you know, like there are 74 00:03:56,333 --> 00:03:58,333 Speaker 2: a lot of people who really support his policies, a 75 00:03:58,333 --> 00:04:01,573 Speaker 2: lot of people who think that, you know, has trade 76 00:04:01,613 --> 00:04:03,813 Speaker 2: policies make a lot of sense. They think the leadership 77 00:04:03,853 --> 00:04:06,173 Speaker 2: is strong, and you know, one of the most interesting 78 00:04:06,213 --> 00:04:08,493 Speaker 2: conversations I've had this week, I think it's a view 79 00:04:08,493 --> 00:04:10,453 Speaker 2: that lots of Kiwis would hold as well. It was 80 00:04:10,493 --> 00:04:13,173 Speaker 2: with a guy, really educated guy who's supporting Donald Trump 81 00:04:13,213 --> 00:04:15,293 Speaker 2: because he said, this is the only president in the 82 00:04:15,293 --> 00:04:18,733 Speaker 2: modern era who hasn't had any major wars start on 83 00:04:18,813 --> 00:04:22,373 Speaker 2: his watch. And that's true. You know that that's totally true. 84 00:04:22,413 --> 00:04:24,213 Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of Kiwis who would 85 00:04:24,493 --> 00:04:25,013 Speaker 2: agree with that. 86 00:04:26,053 --> 00:04:29,093 Speaker 3: You've sort of answered My next question really was, which 87 00:04:29,173 --> 00:04:32,733 Speaker 3: is have you talked to intelligent Trump supporters, you know, 88 00:04:32,893 --> 00:04:38,333 Speaker 3: good people, and got any new insights from them? 89 00:04:38,613 --> 00:04:40,893 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to take my friend for example. You know, 90 00:04:41,213 --> 00:04:43,893 Speaker 2: first of all, there are lots of really intelligent Donald 91 00:04:43,893 --> 00:04:46,173 Speaker 2: Trump supporters, and I think that there's a real danger 92 00:04:46,293 --> 00:04:48,933 Speaker 2: for those people who who don't like Trump or find 93 00:04:49,013 --> 00:04:53,253 Speaker 2: him a bit of an odious character to you know, 94 00:04:53,533 --> 00:04:57,333 Speaker 2: compare Donald Trump supporters to garbage for example, or or 95 00:04:58,213 --> 00:05:01,413 Speaker 2: you know, or to try and you know, belittle them. 96 00:05:01,573 --> 00:05:06,333 Speaker 2: You know, I think talking talking to the really educated, 97 00:05:06,893 --> 00:05:09,613 Speaker 2: find loving friend of mine who's a big Donald Trump supporter. 98 00:05:09,693 --> 00:05:13,573 Speaker 2: It just brought his fourth Trump T shirt the other day, 99 00:05:13,093 --> 00:05:17,013 Speaker 2: I think I think he was in a different information 100 00:05:17,173 --> 00:05:20,773 Speaker 2: ecosystem than me. That's one way I'd put it delicately, 101 00:05:20,893 --> 00:05:25,093 Speaker 2: Like the places he was going for his media that 102 00:05:25,333 --> 00:05:29,133 Speaker 2: the friend circles he's interacting with, they probably didn't have 103 00:05:29,213 --> 00:05:33,253 Speaker 2: the same crossover or any crossover with some of the 104 00:05:33,253 --> 00:05:36,613 Speaker 2: information networks that I'm coming across. So yeah, I actually 105 00:05:36,653 --> 00:05:39,413 Speaker 2: think that, you know, people support Trump for a whole 106 00:05:39,573 --> 00:05:45,213 Speaker 2: range of reasons. And yeah, that does definitely include you know, 107 00:05:45,733 --> 00:05:49,813 Speaker 2: really intelligent, educated people who might just think that Trump has, 108 00:05:49,973 --> 00:05:53,533 Speaker 2: you know, for whatever personal qualities he might have, he 109 00:05:53,613 --> 00:05:57,653 Speaker 2: has really effective policies and actually he's elevating the US 110 00:05:57,653 --> 00:05:58,933 Speaker 2: on the international stage. 111 00:05:59,453 --> 00:06:02,453 Speaker 3: Do you think the New Zealand media has explained that 112 00:06:02,573 --> 00:06:03,733 Speaker 3: well enough to. 113 00:06:05,133 --> 00:06:09,213 Speaker 2: Well, I reckon, I reckon. We haven't experienced the same 114 00:06:09,293 --> 00:06:12,653 Speaker 2: hollowing out of a manufacturing base. Like if you think 115 00:06:12,653 --> 00:06:15,213 Speaker 2: about the post World War II era in the US, 116 00:06:15,373 --> 00:06:18,213 Speaker 2: it was a period of massive prosperity, right because you 117 00:06:18,333 --> 00:06:21,533 Speaker 2: had all of this incredible manufacturing that took place, and 118 00:06:21,573 --> 00:06:24,533 Speaker 2: the baby boomer generation really benefited from that. Now I 119 00:06:24,533 --> 00:06:26,773 Speaker 2: don't think New Zealand's ever had the same level of 120 00:06:26,813 --> 00:06:30,013 Speaker 2: manufacturing base, but it's comparable to the UK. Like think 121 00:06:30,053 --> 00:06:33,093 Speaker 2: about how the northern parts of the UK, you know, 122 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:38,653 Speaker 2: areas like Newcastle, you know, have have seen so much 123 00:06:38,693 --> 00:06:42,653 Speaker 2: of their industry move away, and how there's been a 124 00:06:42,733 --> 00:06:47,053 Speaker 2: kind of a political and economic retaliation to that. I 125 00:06:47,053 --> 00:06:50,893 Speaker 2: think fortunately, we probably haven't haven't relied on manufacturing in 126 00:06:50,933 --> 00:06:52,773 Speaker 2: the same way, and haven't relied on industry in the 127 00:06:52,773 --> 00:06:55,093 Speaker 2: same way that the US and the UK, And I 128 00:06:55,093 --> 00:06:57,813 Speaker 2: would like to think that we've done a better better 129 00:06:57,933 --> 00:07:01,293 Speaker 2: job of kind of of helping different parts of our 130 00:07:01,413 --> 00:07:04,853 Speaker 2: economic based transition through change over the years than they 131 00:07:04,853 --> 00:07:05,493 Speaker 2: have over here. 132 00:07:05,973 --> 00:07:09,053 Speaker 3: Yes, as I was thinking about whether the media had 133 00:07:09,093 --> 00:07:16,013 Speaker 3: explained to New Zealanders why Trump is so popular, so 134 00:07:16,053 --> 00:07:18,933 Speaker 3: that we've got a kind of a round of view 135 00:07:19,653 --> 00:07:23,333 Speaker 3: of the guy. I mean, the last tight is at 136 00:07:23,373 --> 00:07:28,293 Speaker 3: the Kingdom of Bling, the new Richard O'Brien satirical musical 137 00:07:28,613 --> 00:07:34,413 Speaker 3: all based around Trump. I mean, O'Brien hates Trump, and 138 00:07:34,413 --> 00:07:37,813 Speaker 3: and of course it went down extraordinary well with the audience. 139 00:07:38,293 --> 00:07:43,093 Speaker 3: But given that there are so many intelligent Americans voting 140 00:07:43,133 --> 00:07:45,213 Speaker 3: for him, there's got to be much more to him. 141 00:07:45,253 --> 00:07:51,853 Speaker 3: And I just don't feel I've been confronted with why 142 00:07:51,893 --> 00:07:52,893 Speaker 3: that would be the case. 143 00:07:53,933 --> 00:07:56,533 Speaker 2: I mean, there are definitely economic policies that a lot 144 00:07:56,573 --> 00:07:58,773 Speaker 2: a lot of Americans would agree with. And you know 145 00:07:58,853 --> 00:08:01,653 Speaker 2: they always say that people think about their about their 146 00:08:01,693 --> 00:08:03,973 Speaker 2: you know, their hip pocket voters, right, they think about 147 00:08:04,013 --> 00:08:06,853 Speaker 2: their their paycheck first. And and you know Trump, I 148 00:08:06,893 --> 00:08:08,773 Speaker 2: was at as rally the other day. He starts off 149 00:08:08,773 --> 00:08:11,053 Speaker 2: by coming out same thing every single rally. He comes 150 00:08:11,053 --> 00:08:13,613 Speaker 2: out and says a simple question, are you better off 151 00:08:13,653 --> 00:08:17,013 Speaker 2: today than you were four years ago. And there are 152 00:08:17,133 --> 00:08:20,893 Speaker 2: heabs of Americans who would immediately say no, I'm not. 153 00:08:21,013 --> 00:08:23,213 Speaker 2: And you can debate who's responsible for that, but I 154 00:08:23,253 --> 00:08:25,613 Speaker 2: reckon he really taps into that message. 155 00:08:25,813 --> 00:08:28,213 Speaker 3: You've already touched on. In fact, made a big point 156 00:08:28,293 --> 00:08:34,613 Speaker 3: of the gender divide in the selection, given that Kamala 157 00:08:34,693 --> 00:08:39,093 Speaker 3: Harris is obviously a woman and Trump's position on abortion rights, 158 00:08:40,093 --> 00:08:43,533 Speaker 3: could an increased female vote keep the Democrats on power? 159 00:08:44,533 --> 00:08:48,213 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean one of Donald Trump's big supporters 160 00:08:48,253 --> 00:08:52,093 Speaker 2: tweeted out yesterday that if men don't vote, Donald Trump 161 00:08:52,133 --> 00:08:54,613 Speaker 2: loses and Karmela will be president. I just think it's 162 00:08:54,613 --> 00:09:00,613 Speaker 2: really easy to understate or to gloss over how significant 163 00:09:00,653 --> 00:09:03,613 Speaker 2: it is to have a sixteen or seventeen point difference 164 00:09:03,733 --> 00:09:05,893 Speaker 2: between the ways in which men and women are voting. 165 00:09:06,453 --> 00:09:09,573 Speaker 2: It was just that's an historic difference, you know, So 166 00:09:10,013 --> 00:09:14,893 Speaker 2: something like fifty six to thirty seven percent men versus 167 00:09:14,933 --> 00:09:18,693 Speaker 2: women supporting Trump and supporting Kamala Harris, and I mean 168 00:09:18,693 --> 00:09:22,093 Speaker 2: that is extraordinary. What would be amazing is if Kamala 169 00:09:22,133 --> 00:09:25,653 Speaker 2: Harris were to win that the extent to which Donald 170 00:09:25,693 --> 00:09:29,413 Speaker 2: Trump's past moves on abortion rights in the Supreme court 171 00:09:30,253 --> 00:09:33,013 Speaker 2: ultimately cost him the presidency this time round. 172 00:09:33,733 --> 00:09:36,293 Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so I'm not going to ask you who 173 00:09:36,293 --> 00:09:39,053 Speaker 3: you think's going to win. But according to the experts 174 00:09:39,093 --> 00:09:42,973 Speaker 3: I've heard, Trump appears to be a very narrow favorite 175 00:09:42,973 --> 00:09:45,413 Speaker 3: to win the election. Just from the sort of the 176 00:09:45,493 --> 00:09:48,893 Speaker 3: experts point of view. I hear your view that you're 177 00:09:49,013 --> 00:09:49,973 Speaker 3: too hard to tell. 178 00:09:50,373 --> 00:09:53,133 Speaker 2: I don't think even the experts, no, Kevin, I honestly, 179 00:09:53,253 --> 00:09:55,293 Speaker 2: I mean I reckon the experts who are saying that 180 00:09:55,373 --> 00:09:57,213 Speaker 2: are saying that because they don't want to be embarrassed 181 00:09:57,253 --> 00:10:00,173 Speaker 2: by calling Kamala Harris the favorite and then Donald Trump 182 00:10:00,213 --> 00:10:01,853 Speaker 2: being the winner. I just think there are so many 183 00:10:01,853 --> 00:10:04,133 Speaker 2: different ways you can read this. I mean, you're looking 184 00:10:04,173 --> 00:10:05,973 Speaker 2: at the polls, like I say, it's so hard to 185 00:10:06,013 --> 00:10:09,293 Speaker 2: interpret them without the underlying modeling. I really think it's 186 00:10:09,293 --> 00:10:09,853 Speaker 2: a toss up. 187 00:10:10,453 --> 00:10:13,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much, Jack, that's great information. 188 00:10:13,853 --> 00:10:15,533 Speaker 2: My pleasure, Kevin. Great to chat with you. 189 00:10:15,653 --> 00:10:16,133 Speaker 3: As always. 190 00:10:16,133 --> 00:10:18,093 Speaker 2: I'll get to borrow your feedback in a couple of minutes. 191 00:10:18,933 --> 00:10:22,053 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 192 00:10:22,133 --> 00:10:24,973 Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or 193 00:10:25,013 --> 00:10:26,933 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.