1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: As the debate rolls on over whether the government should 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: ban under sixteens from social media, and Australian clinical psychologist 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: is visiting New Zealand arguing that we absolutely should. Doctor 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Danielle Einstein is with us now, Doctor Danielle. Hello, Hi, 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: have mate. I can't get past your surname. I know, 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: how good is that any relation? 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: Well, I've kept it going. We come from the same 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 2: family and all, so that's as close as it gets. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty cool. Now listen do you think I mean? 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: The big debate that we're having here in New Zealand 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: about whether the government should do this or not is 12 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: whether they actually can do it? Is it doable? 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: I spoke with your Minister for Education today and she 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: has some fantastic ideas. And what is really important here 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: is that we are asking the platforms to step up. 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: So it's not a question of its whether it's doable. 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: It's a question of who has skin in the game. 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: The platforms need to take some responsibility for the age 19 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: of which young people on their platforms because it's just 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: causing so many harms. We actually just can't afford not 21 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: to do it. 22 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: But this sounds to me like it's not doable. What 23 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: do you mean, so like, it is not doable for 24 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: these guys to verify that somebody at fifteen is not 25 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: sixteen and that somebody at sixteen is sixteen. 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: These platforms know how you're feeling. These platforms know how 27 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: you're posting, what you're sharing. They know how, and they 28 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 2: can read it. They can do that, They will be 29 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 2: able to do it. That is a sidetrack argument, can 30 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: they do it? The real concern is the actual advocates 31 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: and the people that are actually misinterpreting evidence and data 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: and saying it's not really harming everyone, it's not harming 33 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: them in the same way. We are all being affected, 34 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: whether it's the individual under sixteen or the school at 35 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: which they go to and the group at which they're in, 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: whether they actually feel like they belong, and the mental 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: health crisis which is affecting countries around the world is 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: under so we just it's not a question of durable 39 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: or age assurance. It's a question of whether it's the 40 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: right thing to do. 41 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: Danielle, I'm starting to form I'm a mother, but my 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: children are very young. The preschool is so well under 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the age of using the social media, but obviously have 44 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: been reading things in advance like The Anxious Generation and stuff, 45 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: and I have come to the view that I think 46 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: that social media is as bad for their little brains 47 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: as Siggi's are for their lungs. Am I being hysterical? 48 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: No, it's actually it has our phones and our computers 49 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: and our emails, and in particular social media, which is 50 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 2: particularly persuasive and pervasive. It hooks us it, it pulls 51 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: us in. It's addictive. You can feel the addictive pull 52 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: as you walk in the door of your home, and 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: you if you pick up your phone and try and look, 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: am I want it? Am I needed somewhere? That's how 55 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: you can tell. Or if you get into the car 56 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: and need to be connected immediately that second, you can 57 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: feel it's an invisible draw card. It's the dopamine. It's 58 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 2: the uncertainty heather of is there something good possibly waiting 59 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: for me? And the important thing to know is that 60 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: because there's not always something good, sometimes we don't get 61 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: the message we want. Then we look somewhere else on 62 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: our phone, all right, or our computer or our message 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: for something else, and all of a sudden, particularly children 64 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: who just don't have the emotional wherewithal yet they just 65 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: don't have the tools yet to manage themselves and it's 66 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 2: affecting their development and that's what that's the message we've 67 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: got to get out, Danielle. 68 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you. Look after yourself, Doctor 69 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: Danielle Einstein, clinical psychologist. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 70 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 71 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.