WEBVTT - Why single people face a higher cost of living in NZ 

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<v Speaker 1>Yoda.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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<v Speaker 2>daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Cost of

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<v Speaker 2>living has hit many families around the country hard. But

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<v Speaker 2>what about the singles out there? From booking holidays to

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<v Speaker 2>having a roof over your head, there's often an additional

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<v Speaker 2>cost of doing life alone. Research shows that for people

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<v Speaker 2>aged twenty five to forty nine, those who are singles

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<v Speaker 2>spend fourteen percent more than their coupled counterparts. It's been

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<v Speaker 2>dubbed the singles tax. And while it's gaining more traction

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<v Speaker 2>in the mainstream, lowering costs for the partner lists is

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<v Speaker 2>not an easy task, simplicity. Chief economist Chamabel Yakub has

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<v Speaker 2>crunched the numbers on this and he joins us now

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<v Speaker 2>on the front page. Shamma Belle, it's no surprise that

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<v Speaker 2>doing life alone is more expensive, but can you tell

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<v Speaker 2>me exactly how much more it costs to be single?

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<v Speaker 3>So for a young person, on average, it costs about

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<v Speaker 3>seventy dollars more to be single than a coupled up.

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<v Speaker 2>Here, that's a week, oh my god. And so what

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<v Speaker 2>does the bulk of a single person's income go towards.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the biggest difference is actually on rent and utility.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you think about it, when you're coupling up,

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<v Speaker 3>you might still have a one two bedroom house, but

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<v Speaker 3>you're sharing it across two people. But for a single person,

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<v Speaker 3>you still need that one house and you still need

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<v Speaker 3>the same amount of electricity and things like that. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's really around housing and those utilities that we use

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<v Speaker 3>in the home that affects younger people and single people more.

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<v Speaker 2>And some might say, well, only one mouth to feed,

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<v Speaker 2>but getting one steak versus a pack of two or

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<v Speaker 2>four is far more expensive. Hey, and I love the

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<v Speaker 2>thought of cost go, but me as a single person,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm never going to get through a twenty five kilogram

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<v Speaker 2>bag of rice, am I.

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<v Speaker 3>Man, it's a lot of rise, right, So you're absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 3>There's no economies of scale, so you know, that's a

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<v Speaker 3>very economistic term. But essentially, when you've got more people

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<v Speaker 3>you can afford to buy those bigger bug items sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>they're cheaper, so you really do have to shop more carefully.

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<v Speaker 3>But we don't actually see a massive difference in the

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<v Speaker 3>cost of food, so on a per person basis, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we don't spend a lot more depending on age, But

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<v Speaker 3>we tend to see a bit of difference when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to older people in particular, because older people who

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<v Speaker 3>are living alone tend to have a lot less income,

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<v Speaker 3>so they're just poorer unfortunately, and as a result, they

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<v Speaker 3>have to spend less because they can't afford it.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw a survey in the US a few years

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<v Speaker 2>ago found an unmarried person could pay as much as

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<v Speaker 2>a million dollars more in their lifetime than their married friends.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you agree with that.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, it's a couple of things, right. The first is

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<v Speaker 3>around the income that's possible. So when you've got two

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<v Speaker 3>of you together working towards something, it can mean that

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<v Speaker 3>you have more income available. So first you maximize your income.

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<v Speaker 3>And the second is around the kinds of things that

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<v Speaker 3>you're able to do. You're able to save more money

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<v Speaker 3>because you've got double income quite often and the housing

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<v Speaker 3>costs are not so high, so there's more leftover at

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<v Speaker 3>the end of the week. And then there's those little

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<v Speaker 3>things like we talked about, the you know, giant packs

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<v Speaker 3>of rice or meat or whatever, where you can get

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<v Speaker 3>those additional incremental savings regularly. So there is a cost

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<v Speaker 3>of being single. But I think we shouldn't think about

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<v Speaker 3>only the costs. There are also some benefits to being single.

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<v Speaker 2>What are those?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, sometimes you might just want a little bit of

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<v Speaker 3>peace and quiet to be yourself, right and not everybody.

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<v Speaker 3>For example, if you're not in a committed relationship, you

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<v Speaker 3>may not want have to have flatmates, right. And so

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<v Speaker 3>I remember when I lived in Melbourne, I chose to

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<v Speaker 3>live alone, even there was more expensive, because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I had a busy job, I was seeing a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people through the day and coming home, I wanted

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<v Speaker 3>to have a sanctuary that was my own. So there

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<v Speaker 3>are things like that that gives you the sense of independence,

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<v Speaker 3>quiet solitude that can be quite powerful for a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people. But there's a cost to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have seen surveys and I can't remember which

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<v Speaker 2>ones exactly, but single people, especially later in life, don't

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<v Speaker 2>they have better mental health?

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<v Speaker 3>Typically we tend to find coupled up older people have

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<v Speaker 3>better mental health. So people on their own do tend

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<v Speaker 3>to suffer a little bit more from loneliness, but not

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<v Speaker 3>always right. It's like anything, you know, if you're cooped

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<v Speaker 3>up with somebody who's not very nice to you, then

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<v Speaker 3>it's terrible, but you know this is being single in

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<v Speaker 3>that instance is better. But generally speaking, companionship whether through

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<v Speaker 3>a partnership or with friends and family that's close to you,

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<v Speaker 3>even if it's not in the same home, can make

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<v Speaker 3>a big difference. And loneliness, of course, is one of

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<v Speaker 3>the biggest challenges that's facing older people in New Zealand today,

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<v Speaker 3>but increasingly also younger people who are feeling more isolated

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<v Speaker 3>from the society.

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<v Speaker 4>So okay, here's the thing. I went to read it

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<v Speaker 4>because Reddit has all the answers right, and they said,

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<v Speaker 4>what are some ways to save money for single And

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<v Speaker 4>they said, get a library card because a library is

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<v Speaker 4>free and libraries have free activities to potentially meet somebody

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<v Speaker 4>an educated person there too, and then maybe you solve

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<v Speaker 4>your singles.

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<v Speaker 5>From absolutely and keep in mind to today couples will

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<v Speaker 5>be spending wasting hundreds of dollars on each other, so

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<v Speaker 5>there is wat this is your day to save more.

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<v Speaker 5>Potentially treat yourself though if you want to. If you're not,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, hanging out with a significant other, treat yourself

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<v Speaker 5>a little bit, because we know that you needed to

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<v Speaker 5>make more to be comfortable now, so you know, do

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<v Speaker 5>that wisely. Valentine's Day.

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<v Speaker 2>So what about in retirement do single people have less

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<v Speaker 2>than couples when it comes to hanging out? The work

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<v Speaker 2>boots a.

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<v Speaker 3>Little bit, so it is quite expensive for very old people.

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<v Speaker 3>Quite often it's because you're not able to share a load.

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<v Speaker 3>So again it's really housing costs and the cost of

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<v Speaker 3>care that really pushes things up. So unfortunately, there is

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<v Speaker 3>this kind of this penalty of being single where you

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<v Speaker 3>just don't have the economies of scale when it comes

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<v Speaker 3>to housing and utilities, and so there's there's a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit of a bit of a challenge there for older people.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course, as you know, we have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>more single older people as your partner passes away before

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<v Speaker 3>the other one. And of course we're also seeing those

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<v Speaker 3>at the margin more marriages breaking up later on in life.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's lots of reasons why we're seeing lots more

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<v Speaker 3>people living alone in older ages.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are so many too. For one deals that

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<v Speaker 2>I see there are cheaper holiday packages, single rooms cost

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<v Speaker 2>more than doubles. Car insurance companies give discounts for more

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<v Speaker 2>than one vehicle, and Uber eights always have deals buy

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<v Speaker 2>one curry and get another free, that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like there's no winning for singles out there.

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<v Speaker 3>I reckon it's coming though. So while it is still

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<v Speaker 3>the case that we have larger families still being the

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<v Speaker 3>dominant part of our societies, over the course of the

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<v Speaker 3>coming decade, we're going to see the fastest growing groups

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<v Speaker 3>being singles in couples, and so as we see the

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<v Speaker 3>number of people living alone increased massively, I think the

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<v Speaker 3>marketers are going to tip into that group of people

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<v Speaker 3>as long as they're buying enough stuff. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>you're right. Right now, we're not seeing marketers really looking

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<v Speaker 3>into this massive market of single people who are ready

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<v Speaker 3>to consume things. But we will see that change over

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<v Speaker 3>the coming decades because their demographic tie. It is turning already,

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<v Speaker 3>and we will see it pick up pace quite considerably.

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<v Speaker 2>And I es, buying your own home seems impossible for

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<v Speaker 2>a single person unless you're out there having no fue

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<v Speaker 2>and eating plane rice and tuna for breakfast and lunch

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<v Speaker 2>and dinner. How can a single person do it alone?

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<v Speaker 3>Look, it is hard. It's hard for everybody, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>even harder for singles, mainly because it's harder for them

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<v Speaker 3>to save because compared to a couple who are on

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<v Speaker 3>comparable incomes. If there's two of them, they will have

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<v Speaker 3>just more money left over at the end of the week,

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<v Speaker 3>So that inability to save means it's harder to get

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<v Speaker 3>to the deposit. Once you get the deposit, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of your income that might be going towards your home.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, some of the strategies that we're seeing coming

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<v Speaker 3>out at the moment is a lot of younger people

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<v Speaker 3>who are single are borrowing from their mom and dad

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<v Speaker 3>to be able to put in the deposit. They're taking

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<v Speaker 3>on housemates to be able to afford it. So they're

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<v Speaker 3>not ideal solutions, but those are the kinds of strategies

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<v Speaker 3>that people are dealing with given just how difficult it

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<v Speaker 3>is to get into the housing market.

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<v Speaker 2>I interviewed brookvie Velden last year about workplace law changes,

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<v Speaker 2>including paternity leave, and I do think I stunned her

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<v Speaker 2>into silence by suggesting a type of paternity leave for

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<v Speaker 2>single people. Given the changing landscape now, the universal idea

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<v Speaker 2>of that nuclear family from the fifties is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>just getting dimmer and dimmer. Should we start talking about

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<v Speaker 2>entitle tments for perhaps single and or childless workers as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you suggesting the government pays for people who

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<v Speaker 1>don't have children to have a form of.

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<v Speaker 2>Leave. I mean, it's a conversation starter.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I don't think that's where this government is going.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting concept. I think it's the first time

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<v Speaker 1>that's been raised with me.

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<v Speaker 2>But do you think the government should be looking at

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<v Speaker 2>things to help ease the cost of living for single people?

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<v Speaker 2>What about the government bring in some kind of single

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<v Speaker 2>person home grount or something like that to help, because

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<v Speaker 2>we know millennials and Gen z they're partnering later in

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<v Speaker 2>life if at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I think it's it's that what's the ideal

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<v Speaker 3>state of households in New Zealand versus what the reality is.

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<v Speaker 3>I think in our mind it's still that nuclear family

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<v Speaker 3>with mom, dad, to kids and a dog, right, But

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<v Speaker 3>that's not really the reality of how New Zealand lives anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>So our policies, our settings, the things that we're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to do are very focused around that nuclear family unit,

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<v Speaker 3>except of course, what we've got is that you know,

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<v Speaker 3>younger people coupling up later, older people living singly or couplely.

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<v Speaker 3>There's all the kind of wider issues of housing affordability

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<v Speaker 3>and the cost of living, and our welfare system or

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<v Speaker 3>our system of supporting each other isn't really taking that

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<v Speaker 3>into account. Now. I don't know for sure if we

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<v Speaker 3>should have a specific policy for singles, but certainly I

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<v Speaker 3>think we should have welfare that gives everybody dignity in life.

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<v Speaker 3>And when people are not able to afford the basics

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<v Speaker 3>in life and have a reasonable standard of living, what

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<v Speaker 3>we see is that people become disconnected and discomfited, and

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<v Speaker 3>we see anger in society and in our politics. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not saying it's caused by singles, but what I'm saying

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<v Speaker 3>is that when we feel like, because of where we

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<v Speaker 3>are in a life, somehow we can't participate in the

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<v Speaker 3>things that are normal for New Zealand, that's really troubling

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<v Speaker 3>and I feel like that is starting to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of countries around the world are

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<v Speaker 2>offering more tax benefits to adults who have more children. Hungry,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, has launched a tax exemption for mothers who

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<v Speaker 2>have two or more children. Is it fair to say

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<v Speaker 2>that governments prefer us to have children grow the population

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<v Speaker 2>and all that.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, we've seen around the world over many, many years,

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<v Speaker 3>many decades, efforts to try and encourage people to have

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<v Speaker 3>more children. None of them have worked, so it's just

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<v Speaker 3>a complete and utter waste of money. It might help

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<v Speaker 3>those families who have children, but actually none of these

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<v Speaker 3>policies have proven to increase fertility rates, so it's good

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<v Speaker 3>money after that. I think it'd be much better if

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<v Speaker 3>we just properly spend money on childcare and education and

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<v Speaker 3>things like that, and actually just made it easier for

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<v Speaker 3>women in particular to be able to take time off

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<v Speaker 3>for work if they needed to care for their families,

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<v Speaker 3>and for elderly people, because it's those kinds of issues

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<v Speaker 3>that are much bigger issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not that we're coupling up later because we don't

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<v Speaker 3>want to have kids. It's because everything just costs so

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.600
<v Speaker 3>damn much that we have to spend many years to

0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 3>progrisinal careers before we can afford those things. So look,

0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.960
<v Speaker 3>absolutely we're seeing those policies around the world to try

0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.400
<v Speaker 3>and increase fertility rates, but I can tell you of

0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.679
<v Speaker 3>all the reviews that I have seen, they don't work.

0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.480
<v Speaker 2>And I guess back to life being hard when you're single.

0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.720
<v Speaker 2>If you're single and you lose your job, you lose

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent of your income, right, but if you're

0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 2>living with a partner, you lose part of it. That

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.560
<v Speaker 2>puts added pressure on single people high on top of

0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.200
<v Speaker 2>everything else, exactly, you.

0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Just have less room to maneuver. And I think that's

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.200
<v Speaker 3>that wider thing of you know, I'm not again, I'm

0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:09.840
<v Speaker 3>not going to tell you to couple up with somebody

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.240
<v Speaker 3>who's not suitable. But having a partner or friends or

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 3>family or wider network who can support you through those

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.880
<v Speaker 3>hard times is really helpful. And we tend to kind

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.880
<v Speaker 3>of focus on the immediate family for those kinds of things. Particularly,

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.720
<v Speaker 3>I think in mainstream society when you look at Mari

0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.840
<v Speaker 3>and Pacifica in particular, or even in Asian communities, we

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.160
<v Speaker 3>do see a lot more of community help in terms

0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.000
<v Speaker 3>of those informal networks being much stronger. But we have

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.400
<v Speaker 3>lost a lot of that in New Zealand because you know,

0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 3>the deal when we built the welfare state was that

0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.160
<v Speaker 3>you don't need to maintain those other things because the

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 3>government's got you. But of course we know that things

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.720
<v Speaker 3>like welfare and other things, you know, there's a stand

0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.559
<v Speaker 3>down period you have to wait and if you're a

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 3>single person and there is no one to support you,

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.200
<v Speaker 3>it becomes really troubling. And also the challenge, of course

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 3>is that, as you know, in a lot of the

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 3>poverty in New Zealand is amongst our working people. You know,

0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 3>we have this big issue of the working poor in

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 3>New Zealand where if you're working in jobs that are

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.680
<v Speaker 3>precarious in terms of hours and pay, then it is

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 3>really hard when something happens. So it's that inability to

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 3>make things work for yourself. So the solution to that,

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 3>of course is to have some precautionary savings if you can,

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 3>so always have a little bit of a thing on

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 3>the side, because life happens and you need to be

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 3>prepared and you can't always rely on somebody else.

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.719
<v Speaker 2>And is it an issue of high rent prices as well?

0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how much of a single person's income only

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 2>goes towards rent?

0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, quite a big check. And that's where the big

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.000
<v Speaker 3>difference is because if you think about it, if there

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 3>is a you know, we're comparing a couple of similar

0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 3>you know, two similar incomes and one person living on

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.599
<v Speaker 3>their own. They might be renting the same type of

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 3>let's one bedroom apartment and the cost will be the same,

0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.319
<v Speaker 3>but one is spread across two incomes and for the

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.840
<v Speaker 3>single person they're sharing the whole load. And so on average,

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.680
<v Speaker 3>the typical kind of rent in New Zealand versus the

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 3>typical wage in New Zealand is roughly around forty percent.

0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 3>So if you're living alone, then you know you're spending

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 3>forty percent of the income minimum to kind of be

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 3>able to afford your home. Whereas it there's two of you,

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 3>you might be able to afford a better place, or

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:06.520
<v Speaker 3>you might be able to spend a lot less of

0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 3>your combined income on your house. And that is the

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 3>housing is the big one. There is just no economist

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 3>a scale when it comes to splitting a house.

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Not to mention, couples who choose to get married get

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 2>a financial assist by the way of cashing gifts from

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 2>wedding guests. Right, is it time to make getting married

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 2>to yourself popular so I can set up a registry?

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.320
<v Speaker 3>Do you think you're still going to get the gifts

0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 3>and things?

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what i'd hope for.

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I don't know. I think it's a very

0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 3>novel idea and we should give it a go and

0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:33.800
<v Speaker 3>see what happens.

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's also that, I guess stigma towards how single

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 2>people spend their money as well. Hey, I remember an

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 2>episode of Sex in the City where carries Minola and

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Dolani's got stolen at her friend's house. When she asked

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 2>her mate to pay for them, she said it's irresponsible

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 2>for carry to spend hundreds of dollars on shoes and refuses.

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>But then she adds up all the money she spent

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 2>on her friend over the years, from baby showers to

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 2>bachelorette parties, and decided to make her foot the bill anyway,

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 2>don't forgives. I mean, if you.

0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 5>Got married or had a child, she spend the same

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 5>on you.

0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 2>And if I don't ever get married or have a baby,

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>what I get? Bob kiss think about it.

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.840
<v Speaker 4>If you are single after graduation, there isn't one occasion

0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 4>where people celebrate you. We are birthdays.

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.520
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, we all have birthdays. That's awash

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 2>I am talking about the single galp.

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 4>Hallmark doesn't make a congratulations you didn't marry the wrong

0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 4>guide card?

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:37.880
<v Speaker 2>And where's the flatwear for going on vacation alone? I

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 2>guess what I'm trying to get at is is it

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>fair that single people get chastised for the way that

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 2>they spend their money?

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely not, absolutely not. I think how you choose you

0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 3>choose to spend your money is up to you, and

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 3>I think there is a lot of judgment that happens regardless.

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 3>I just put out a survey on social cohesion in

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 3>New Zone and one of the things that really comes

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 3>through in that is the stereotyping that we do and

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 3>the projection that we do our own values and preferences

0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 3>to other people. And that's really unfair. Right when we

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 3>are dealing with somebody else, we should be curious to

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 3>understand where they're coming from, rather than try to convert

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 3>them to our way of being. You know, the whole

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.400
<v Speaker 3>beauty of this world is not because everybody's like you.

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 3>It's because people are different, and we like being around

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 3>people who are different to us. That's where the joy

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 3>comes from.

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 2>So, Chama Belle, let's have a little brainstorm. What are

0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 2>some discounts or I guess government interventions that would benefit

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 2>single childless people.

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 3>Do you think, well, I think it's really thinking about

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 3>whether or not the way that we think about what

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 3>kind of households need A lot of support right at

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 3>the moment, it's very geared to as families. I understand

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 3>why we should invest in children, that's fine, But the

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 3>fact that there is a high cost of being single

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 3>is currently reflected in things like the New Zealand super

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 3>but not in many of the other types of assistance

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 3>that's out there. So we should really try and think

0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 3>very carefully about are we helping those people who really

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 3>need it, or are we helping people that we think

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 3>morally and values wise, that we think are more deserving

0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 3>than of others. Now, there is no reason why single

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.960
<v Speaker 3>people should be stigmatized just because that's not our model

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.199
<v Speaker 3>view of a New Zealand family looks like, because that

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 3>is simply not true anymore.

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining us, Jammer Belle, thank you for having me.

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 2>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.960
<v Speaker 2>at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 2>produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 2>our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and

0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 2>tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines,