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Speaker 1: Rain Bridge, the Chief Children's Commissioner. This is going well.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Children's Commissioner has spoken out against the proposed

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Speaker 1: changes to our citizens' arrest laws the governments to make

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Speaker 1: it easier to make citizens arrest, but the Commissioner says

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Speaker 1: members of the public shouldn't be allowed to arrest children

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Speaker 1: and young people. Doctor Claire Hmad is the Chief Children's

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Speaker 1: Commissioner and is with me this evening. Hi Claire, Hi

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Speaker 1: Ryan with children anyone under eighteen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: And if they are stealing something it's from your store,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't be able to hold them until the police

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Speaker 1: get there. Why not?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge straight up

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Speaker 2: front that I want our communities to be safe. I

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Speaker 2: don't want children to be involved in these kinds of situations,

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Speaker 2: and I want shopkeepers to be safe in doing their work.

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Speaker 2: But this proposal, in my view, it is just too

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Speaker 2: risky for children and actually for everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: What's too risky, Well, this.

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Speaker 2: Whole concept of citizens arrests for children in these kinds

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Speaker 2: of situations. Why I believe that is too risky is

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Speaker 2: that it actually puts children potentially in danger. On two

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Speaker 2: sides of the coins, so potentially children who might be

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Speaker 2: subject to a citizen's arrest, but then also children who

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Speaker 2: might be actually the workers in these kinds of settings,

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Speaker 2: because we need to remember that a quarter of our

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Speaker 2: recail workers in Altiero and New Zealand are actually aged

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Speaker 2: between fifteen to twenty four. And why I say that

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Speaker 2: it raises a risk of danger for children and young

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Speaker 2: people is that citizens arrest they can actually quickly go wrong.

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Speaker 2: And a number of agencies that have given advice to

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Speaker 2: the government on this police justice or in a Commahi

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Speaker 2: Crown Law, among others, they've highlighted this risk around actually

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Speaker 2: violence could escalate in these types of situations. Want to

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Speaker 2: see that avoided here, and there are alternatives.

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Speaker 1: You said that this would be brought upon the child,

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Speaker 1: but if they're stealing, they've brought it upon themselves, haven't they.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't want children stealing, and I think most.

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Speaker 1: Problem as they do. The problem is they do, and

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Speaker 1: they do it repeatedly, brazenly during the day, often with weapons.

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Speaker 2: And I acknowledge those situations.

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Speaker 1: Well what do we do about it?

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Speaker 2: Well, we, first of all, we must be concerned about this,

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Speaker 2: and I am concerned about.

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Speaker 1: This, Okay, we're all concerned. But what do you do

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Speaker 1: they come in, they steal stuff from your shop. This

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Speaker 1: is the profit of which you will use to get

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Speaker 1: your kids through school. What would you like the shop

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Speaker 1: owners to do to try and talk to them?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I actually would like get shop owners,

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Speaker 2: as I'm sure they do, to call the police, because

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Speaker 2: we have a law enforcement agency in new.

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Speaker 1: And the kids are gone by the time the police

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Speaker 1: turn up, they're wearing masks, they don't find them.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that given the risks involved here, we

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Speaker 2: have to see this in a in a balance way.

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Speaker 2: I am concerned so involved here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I get it that there's a risk that you know,

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Speaker 1: on the off chance that some kid might get hurt

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Speaker 1: when they're being restrained. But you're saying that the risk

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Speaker 1: that on the off chance that some kid might get

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Speaker 1: hurt while they're being restrained out wighs the overwhelming financial

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Speaker 1: burden that this is placing on shop owners, not to

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Speaker 1: mention the fact that they're scared too.

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Speaker 2: I actually don't think that this proposed change, though, is

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Speaker 2: going to solve this problem, and so I really want

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Speaker 2: to see a stronger focus on preventing these kinds of

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Speaker 2: situations in the first place. As I said before, I

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Speaker 2: don't want us to be a country in which we

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Speaker 2: see children stealing from shops. There are things that we

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Speaker 2: can do focus on preventing retail crime from happening in

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Speaker 2: the first place. And I also want to make it

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Speaker 2: absolutely clear that when children and young people do engage

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Speaker 2: in this behavior, there does need to be appropriate accountability

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Speaker 2: for them to take responsibility for those actions. But this proposal,

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Speaker 2: it's not striking the right balance.

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Speaker 1: Doctor clear upmard appreciate your time this evening. That's the

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Speaker 1: Chief Children's Commissioner. For more from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive,

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