1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Now on another matter altogether, Regulation Minister David Seymour has 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: decided he's not going to change the laws around wearing 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: helmets on bikes and the fact that it's mandatory at 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: the moment you have to wear them, and the Ministry 5 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: has advised Seymour that it should stay that way because 6 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: if we start removing the mandate a lot more people 7 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: are going to die. Patrick Morgan from the Cycle Action 8 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: Network is with us. He Patrick, hello, how are you well? 9 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Thank you? Has he made the right call? 10 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: Well, he made the right call to ask for advice 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: on this, but he made the wrong call to drop it. 12 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: We've never had a review of New Zealand's compulsory bicycle 13 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: helmet law and after thirty years a lot of evidence 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 2: has come in which shows that maybe we made the 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: wrong call. 16 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: Here okay, well why do you think we made the 17 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: wrong call? What is this evidence? 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: It depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If 19 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: we're trying to reduce head injuries, which is a good 20 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: thing to do, then the evidence would show you would 21 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: require helmets for many things that we do every day, 22 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: such as driving our fast cars, chairs, walking such as DIY. 23 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: But if we're trying to solve the problem of inactivity, 24 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 2: which we know is killing more than two thousand people 25 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: a year in New Zealand. You'd want more people to 26 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: be active than anything that's a barrier to cycling. Should 27 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: we should look at removing that. So let's think about 28 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 2: every other country in the world that's looked at helmet compulsion. 29 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: They look at New Zealand and say, what happened? There 30 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: was a really bad thing. We need to think that 31 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: through very carefully. 32 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: Can we actually, Patrick cee a drop off where we 33 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: force the helmets and people stop cycling? 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: Absolutely? And we know that because in Australia, when helmet 35 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: laws introduced state by state, you can track the falloff 36 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: in cycling and which is to fall off. So in 37 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: New Zealand, after helmet compulsion was introduced more than thirty 38 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: years ago, we know the number of children riding to 39 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: school dropped off to dropped off by about eighty percent. 40 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: Now there's other reasons for that, but we know that 41 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: forcing people to wear a bike helmet is disproportionate to 42 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: the massive health benefits and fun people get from writing again. 43 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: But I mean it's complicated at Patrick. 44 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Okay, I really want people to be 45 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: riding on their bikes. But man, I'm a mum and 46 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm not a helicopter parent at all, but I'm still 47 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: strapping a helmet on that kid, because if you fall 48 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: off your bike, that is I mean, that can do 49 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: some damage that you live with for the rest of 50 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: your life. That is a massive impact. It's not worth 51 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: the risk without a helmet. 52 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 2: Look, I absolutely understand that, and I respect people who 53 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: make that call. You could say exactly the same thing 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 2: about driving in your fast car like your song said 55 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: at you know, eighty or one hundred and ten kilometers 56 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: an hour. A helmet could do a lot more use 57 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: if we made the compulsory for people in cars. 58 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd love to know the incidence of people 59 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: having crashes versus the incidents of people having really like 60 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: and the range of crashes, like serious crashes versus serious 61 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: crashes on your bike, because I know a lot of 62 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: people have had serious crashes on their bike and it 63 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: feels to me like it's more frequent than in a car. 64 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's a good reason to do a proper 65 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: review of the helmet law, Yeah, and make sure that 66 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: it's achieved what it's set out. To achieve thirty years ago. 67 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: With all the new evidence that's come in, I should say, 68 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: get on your here that riding a bike is amazing. 69 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: If you're riding at twenty kilometers an hour on a 70 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: rail trail where there's no motorized traffic, does it really 71 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: make sense for the government to tell you to put 72 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: a plastic hat on? No. 73 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: I agree with you on that, although, yeah, I mean 74 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: if you're if you're driving down Ponsonby Road where you've 75 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: got no separation, you should probably be wearing a helmet. 76 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: I would have thought, is it possible that the reason 77 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: that we had the drop off and would see the 78 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: drop off when the helmet's are introduced, is because when 79 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: you introduce the mandate, people suddenly realize how dangerous this 80 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: activity actually is around cars. 81 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're onto something that it certainly dangified 82 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: cycling in the nineties. You probably remember the campaign, as 83 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: you know, telling you about the terrible things can happen 84 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: when you hit your head, and you know that's a 85 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: valid concern. But before we pass the rule, it needs 86 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: to be proportionate to the risks and the benefits. And 87 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: I suspect that that assessment was never really done in 88 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: New Zealand, so it's time to take a fresh look 89 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: at it. But speaking on behalf of Cycling Action Network, 90 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: we think there's higher priorities at the moment. Protected bike lane, 91 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: safe speeds. These are all things that the Minister for 92 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: Regulation could more profitably be spending his time on. 93 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, Patrick, I really appreciate your time, mate. You 94 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: look after yourself. Patrick Morgan's Cycle Action Network. Hither the 95 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: overweight people who don't exercise are not suddenly going to 96 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: jump on a bike and ride it because you don't 97 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: have to wear a helmet. This is a fair point 98 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: as well. Oh lord, can you know and you know 99 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,559 Speaker 1: how strapped for cash ACC is. So can you imagine 100 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: everybody starts coming off their bikes and there goes there. 101 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Now we've got can't think straight anymore because of that, 102 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: and AC like, never mind, will they're paying now beforehand? 103 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: And start paying that now? 104 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: And we have big trouble for more from Hither Duplessy 105 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: Allen Drive listen live to news talks. 106 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 107 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.