1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,560
Speaker 1: Now when you study on fatherhood has coined a phrase

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,600
Speaker 1: passenger parenting. Now, a passenger parent is the parent, usually

3
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 1: the dad. It just comes along for the ride, but

4
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: doesn't actually do that much, leaving the mum to do

5
00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 1: all the heavy lifting. Norma Barrett from Deacon University and

6
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,079
Speaker 1: Victoria is the co author of the study High Norma, Hi, Heather,

7
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: Whose fault is this? Is it the mother for taking over?

8
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: Or is it the father for being slack or Heather?

9
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 2: It's not that simple. We know parenting is a complex game,

10
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to go into picking favorites. But

11
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,279
Speaker 2: I can say, look the way things play out when

12
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 2: we're parenting and how we expect it's going to be

13
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,360
Speaker 2: and how it actually happens in reality can often be

14
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,839
Speaker 2: quite different, and it can be a tricky time when

15
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: we're trying to work out our new rules as parents

16
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 2: and young children.

17
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,479
Speaker 1: Norma, is it fair to say it could be? It

18
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 1: could either It could actually be any any of the

19
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: three possibilities. It could be the mother's too overbearing, or

20
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: the father is two hands off, or it could simply

21
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: be that they're doing both of the things at the

22
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: same time.

23
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 2: There could be a bit of both, that's right. I

24
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 2: think to try and boil it down to that, I suppose,

25
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 2: you know, would discount a lot of the subtleties in

26
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 2: terms of how things play out. And often we're learning

27
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 2: this on the fly. You know, we don't get the

28
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 2: manual for the child at the beginning, and we don't

29
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 2: know how we're going to feel about things later on.

30
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 2: So often we think, oh, I'm going to have this

31
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 2: parenting style, but in reality, when we're presented with situations,

32
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,760
Speaker 2: we adopt different approaches. Often we start out and we think, oh,

33
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to be a stay at home parent or

34
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to be a working parent, and sometimes we think, actually,

35
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,320
Speaker 2: I'd rather have more time either at home or at work.

36
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,960
Speaker 2: And so it's changing all the time, and it can

37
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 2: be difficult to try and negotiate that when you don't

38
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 2: know what you're going to feel like when it actually happens.

39
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: Okay to talk to me as a mam, right, So

40
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: as a mom, I'm probably let's not sell the song.

41
00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 1: Let's not be soft to that. Okay, I do I

42
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 1: do basically everything right as a mom. No, that's not

43
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: fair either on him. I'm doing it now, aren't I? Okay?

44
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 1: As a mom, I do a lot, and sometimes I

45
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,079
Speaker 1: can feel a little bit resentful. But what I'm now

46
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 1: realizing is that while I don't like having all the

47
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: mental load and all that stuff on me, he might

48
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,519
Speaker 1: not like the fact that he's being cut out so much.

49
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,920
Speaker 1: It sucks for both parents.

50
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 2: It's tricky because often when the parent, who you know,

51
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 2: is trying to carve out space to actually be more active,

52
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 2: sometimes they might feel like that they're stepping on toes.

53
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: And we have to think about, Okay, if I don't

54
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 2: want to carry all the load, am I comfortable with

55
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 2: handing some things over to somebody else? And am I

56
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,520
Speaker 2: going to be accepting of how they do things? Because

57
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 2: we all do things in different ways. Are we accepting

58
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 2: of how somebody else prepares the lunchbox? You know? So

59
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: it's interesting the dynamic, and it's really tricky for fathers,

60
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 2: I think, because in those early stages, you know, their

61
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 2: first kind of feeling of being a parent can often

62
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 2: be after the birth, whereas for mothers, biologically, you know,

63
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 2: they're typically you know, they're they're already kind of feeling.

64
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,360
Speaker 2: They're more on the parenting journey and at the center

65
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 2: of that, and rightly so with their health care and

66
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 2: everything that's attached with that. But for fathers, they're kind of,

67
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,959
Speaker 2: you know, this responsibility tends to kick in based on

68
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,919
Speaker 2: the conversations I've had, you know, at the birth, and

69
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 2: so trying to work out then to kind of slot

70
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 2: into the journey at that point can be a little

71
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 2: bit tricky. And the other thing that's a bit tricky

72
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 2: is that typically mothers, you know, working mothers, and if

73
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: they get a break from work, often they're the parent

74
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 2: that takes that chunk of time in the very early days,

75
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 2: so they get to do a lot of their training,

76
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 2: they've got time kind of put to one side, whereas

77
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: father's typically, you know, these days, fathers tend to get

78
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 2: a bit more time off of work, which is great,

79
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 2: but often return to work quite soon after the arrival

80
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 2: of a child, so they don't have that time to

81
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 2: kind of grow into the role. They're kind of rushed

82
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,520
Speaker 2: back into everyday life again. And then naturally the mother

83
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 2: tends to pick up a lot of the duties and

84
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 2: the caring duties, and then you know, you have this

85
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 2: dynamic setup already who the primary carer, who the main

86
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 2: carer is, and trying to transition out of that is

87
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 2: really hard if that's something that families want to do

88
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 2: without stepping on tools.

89
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 1: Norma, thank you very much. I really appreciate Norma Barrett,

90
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: who is the co author of the study from Deacon University.

91
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,480
Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

92
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

93
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.