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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the US, now the

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Speaker 1: Leyton Smith Podcast powered by News Talks B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Podcasts three hundred and twenty two for April

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Speaker 2: the first twenty twenty six bagg in September of twenty five.

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Speaker 2: The name Louise Klegg was not terribly familiar with most people.

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Speaker 2: Then she wrote an article sliding into Technocracy, and that

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Speaker 2: article triggered a desire to interview the author, so she

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Speaker 2: accepted an invitation and guested in Podcasts three oh two.

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Speaker 2: Now Louise Klegg returns in podcast three twenty two and well,

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Speaker 2: a lot of water has passed under her bridge. Louise

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Speaker 2: was a successful barrister when she decided to throw in

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Speaker 2: the towel and develop a new persona and with that

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Speaker 2: comes a healthy philosophy of life that could be a

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Speaker 2: beacon to many young women who feel stymied by the

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Speaker 2: world in which they live. The conversation was not restricted

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Speaker 2: to any one topic. It was to be a conversation

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Speaker 2: and to discuss as much as was appropriate, and we

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Speaker 2: touched on a number of things, multiculturalism, renewable energy and

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Speaker 2: net zero, experts who aren't the Iran war Ai media

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Speaker 2: and a few other matters. Now, just to give you

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Speaker 2: an indication of her style, this is something she wrote

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Speaker 2: around the same time as we did the previous hit

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Speaker 2: of you, but wasn't included well from memory anyway. Talking

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Speaker 2: about the Australian legal profession today, the Australian legal profession

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Speaker 2: has given up the ghost on issues of great social

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Speaker 2: import where there should be furious debates, they're either silent

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Speaker 2: or being silenced. The phrase unintended consequences rarely passes the

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Speaker 2: lips of our most senior lawyers, judges or academics. Like

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Speaker 2: many in the professional classes, lawyers have become cheerleaders for

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Speaker 2: most fashionable progressive causes, abandoning the caution and prudence that

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Speaker 2: once defined the discipline. Worse, they have become enforces, shutting

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Speaker 2: down the dissenting voices inside and outside the profession. It

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Speaker 2: goes on to give some examples, but you can see

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Speaker 2: what I mean. She has a rebellious streak in her

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Speaker 2: and that is to be welcomed so we shall talk

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Speaker 2: with Louise shortly, but first staying within the bookends of

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Speaker 2: the legal system. This time in the United States, there

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Speaker 2: is a story that must be told. Well, the story

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Speaker 2: has been told, but not in its fullness. And this

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Speaker 2: is the I suppose you might say, the conclusion, the

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Speaker 2: concluding part of that story. Lieutenant General Michael Flenn, who

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Speaker 2: was and I'm not sure that I actually knew this

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Speaker 2: or remembered this before, but he was a former head

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Speaker 2: of the Defense Intelligence Agency, the DIA under the Obama administration.

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Speaker 2: But he was investigated by the FBI beginning in August

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Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen over alleged ties to Russia. In January

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, he was interviewed by two FBI agents and

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Speaker 2: asked about a conversation with a Russian official. At first,

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Speaker 2: he denied the conversation, which was not the truth, then

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Speaker 2: said that he didn't remember. Intelligence officials and others later

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Speaker 2: concluded that the conversation did not involve collusion or illegality. Nevertheless,

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Speaker 2: that exchange became the core of the charge of lying

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Speaker 2: to the FBI brought against Flynn by the late Special

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Speaker 2: Council Robert Mueller, who took over the case. In May

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Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen. Flynn initially pleaded guilty, but then withdrew

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Speaker 2: that plea, claiming that he did not intentionally lie and

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Speaker 2: was misled by his attorneys to enter the guilty plea

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Speaker 2: because prosecutors threatened legal action against his son. Now, this

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Speaker 2: was the really dirty part of this. Internal emails from

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Speaker 2: Flynn's first legal team showed that this was true. Prosecutors

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Speaker 2: informed his legal team that Flynn's son would be left

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Speaker 2: alone if he signed the guilty plea. Then, in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: then head of the District of Columbia U S Attorney's Office,

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Speaker 2: Timothy Shay, concluded that it seemed the FBI's purpose for

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Speaker 2: interviewing Flynn was to illicit false statements and thereby criminalizing

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Speaker 2: mister Flynn. The DOJ eventually dropped the charge, but the

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Speaker 2: judge overseeing Flynn's case refused to dismiss it. Remember that

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Speaker 2: the judge refused to dismiss it. Trump ultimately pardoned him

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. Then in twenty three, Flynn filed a

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Speaker 2: lawsuit against the DOJ and the FBI, accusing prosecutors from

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Speaker 2: Muller's others of investigating and prosecuting him for political reasons.

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Speaker 2: And so we arrive at the present day. Flynn had

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Speaker 2: sought fifty million from the government for what he claimed

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Speaker 2: were politically motivated actions against him. Now the settlement brings

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Speaker 2: to an end a year's long dispute that stemmed from

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Speaker 2: false claims of Russian meddling in that twenty sixteen presidential election.

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Speaker 2: Now it has been investigated and covered properly by the

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Speaker 2: good guys if you like, the truth was unfolded, and

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Speaker 2: now justice has rectified. Well I say rectified, it'll do

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Speaker 2: for the minute has rectified that initial charge. And what

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Speaker 2: it did to Flynn ruined him, bankrupted him. He sold

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Speaker 2: the house, the family home to pay for his son's

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Speaker 2: legal defenses, etc. So however much it is, it probably

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Speaker 2: isn't enough. But at least his honor has been restored

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Speaker 2: and should be recognized when it will be now after

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Speaker 2: the break, Now, after a short break. Louise Klegg Buccolan

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Speaker 2: is a natural oral vaccine in a tablet form called

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Speaker 2: bacterial Niceat. It'll boost your natural protection against bacterial infections

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Speaker 2: in your chest and throat. A three day course of

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Speaker 2: seven Buckland tablets will help your body build up to

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Speaker 2: three months of immunity against bugs which cause bacterial cold symptoms.

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Speaker 2: So who can take buccolan well, the whole family from

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Speaker 2: two years of age and upwards. A course of Buckelan

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Speaker 2: tablets offers cost effective and safe protection from colds and chills.

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Speaker 2: Protection becomes effective a few days after you take buccolan

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Speaker 2: and lasts for up to three months following the three

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Speaker 2: day course. Buccolan can be taken throughout the cold season,

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Speaker 2: over winter or all the year round. And remember Buckelan

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Speaker 2: is not intended as an alternative to en fluenza vaccination,

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Speaker 2: but may be used along with the flu vaccination for

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Speaker 2: added protection. And keep in mind that millions of doses

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Speaker 2: have been taken by Kiwi's for over fifty years. Only

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Speaker 2: available from your pharmacist. Always read the label and users

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Speaker 2: directed and see your doctor if systems persist. Farmer Broker Auckland.

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Speaker 3: Layton Smith.

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Speaker 2: Louise Clegg is a regular contributor to public discussions through

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Speaker 2: media and academic platforms and now she's appeared on Sky

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Speaker 2: News Australia to gb Radio and she frequently participates in

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Speaker 2: lectures at Sydney Institute and the United States Studies Center.

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Speaker 2: In September twenty twenty five, she appeared on the Laton

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Speaker 2: Smith Podcast, episode three two to discuss her essay Sliding

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Speaker 2: into Technocracy, analyzing how unelected experts can slowly re place

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Speaker 2: democratic accountability. Her insights combine legal understanding with a concern

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Speaker 2: for civic culture and balance that distinguishes her from typical

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Speaker 2: political commentators, and in twenty twenty one she joined the

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Speaker 2: Sydney Institute Panel on Democracy and the Administrative State, followed

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Speaker 2: by another in twenty twenty four titled Law and Legitimacy

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Speaker 2: in Modern Governance Now. These engagements demonstrate her sustained involvement

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Speaker 2: in national debates about power law. Louise, welcome back. It's

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Speaker 2: great to have you on the podcast again. I've been

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Speaker 2: looking forward to it and people have been.

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Speaker 4: Asking Lton thank you for having me. It's very good

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Speaker 4: to be back. A lot has happened with spok last My.

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Speaker 2: Next line was going to be there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: water under the bridge since we last spoke.

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Speaker 4: This certainly is, and I must say I've I've never

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Speaker 4: had a wrap up like that before, and it does

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Speaker 4: remind me about the things that I was writing in

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Speaker 4: the lead up to these ruptures that have been occurring,

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Speaker 4: particularly in Australian politics, but continue to occur everywhere, I suppose,

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Speaker 4: even since we last spoke. So wow, Yes, that was

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Speaker 4: an interesting summary, and we live in interesting.

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Speaker 2: Timeses and the Chinese are trying to influence us more

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Speaker 2: and more.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, it does seem that way, but I mean

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Speaker 4: that's not something that I typically focus on. I'm more

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Speaker 4: interested in sort of what is really going on at

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Speaker 4: the cold face, I suppose in our liberal democracies. I'm

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Speaker 4: interested in what is happening in Australia, of course, because

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Speaker 4: that is the country I love most. But we're living

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Speaker 4: through rupture and massive change and push back against the establishment.

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Speaker 4: And I'm the last person to be inclined to say

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Speaker 4: I told you so to people generally, because that's not

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Speaker 4: my style.

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Speaker 3: But I have to say, particularly listening to.

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Speaker 4: That summary, because I've forgotten about some of those pieces

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Speaker 4: and appearances, but I have been saying to anyone who

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Speaker 4: would listen for about a decade now, probably not in

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Speaker 4: these hyperbolic terms, but I really have effectively been saying

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Speaker 4: that the revolution is coming. And I straddle a few worlds,

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Speaker 4: I suppose, but I straddle and have straddled really all

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Speaker 4: of my since I became a professional in Sydney, I've

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Speaker 4: straddled that sort of professional knowledge economy world.

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Speaker 3: But I grew up in a fairly.

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Speaker 4: Remote place in Australia, in a small country town, which

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Speaker 4: is what we would have said was hardcore National Party territory,

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Speaker 4: but would now without an election having occurred, but knowing

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Speaker 4: what the polls are doing and what people are thinking

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Speaker 4: and saying out there would now be hardcore one nation territory.

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Speaker 4: And that's where I grew up in my family lives.

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Speaker 4: And so I've straddled those two worlds. And I've been

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Speaker 4: saying to people in the knowledge economy, in the economy world,

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Speaker 4: and in professional classes for about a decade. Actually, look,

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Speaker 4: people are unhappy. They're getting more and more unhappy. We're

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Speaker 4: not responding to them sufficiently. And the cost of these

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Speaker 4: luxury beliefs of the professional classes, the sort of the insiders,

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Speaker 4: the laptop classes, the cost of their beliefs is being

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Speaker 4: imposed upon these people who live elsewhere. And the anger

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Speaker 4: is fomenting, and it's here with us now.

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Speaker 2: It is here with us now, and it's arrived surprisingly quickly. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean, what's that what's that saying things? You know, economies,

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Speaker 2: whatever it refers to economies go break slowly until the

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Speaker 2: end when they rapidly decline.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the one nation rupture in Australia has

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Speaker 4: been coming for some time. So in fact, I was

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Speaker 4: just talking to a friend yesterday about this in the

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Speaker 4: polling booth. Where I grew up in a small town

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Speaker 4: in western New South Wales called Tottenham, as in Tottenham Hotspurs.

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Speaker 3: But it's in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 4: It's a tiny town, perhaps two or three hundred people

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Speaker 4: when I was growing up.

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Speaker 3: It's declined a bit since then, so.

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Speaker 4: It's a village really, and it's you know, at least

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Speaker 4: an hour and forty minutes from a major center, major

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Speaker 4: sort of regional city, Dubbo, which is thirty thousand people.

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Speaker 3: So it's dry usually and very remote.

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Speaker 4: It had a it would typically have a return for

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Speaker 4: the National Party of about eighty percent. Eight percent of

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Speaker 4: voters there would just vote for the Nationals election in

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Speaker 4: and election out. At the last election, One Nation got

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Speaker 4: a twenty percent vote there, which was fairly significant, and

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Speaker 4: the election before that it was ten percent, and prior

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Speaker 4: to that they hadn't run but twenty percent is very high,

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Speaker 4: but it was overlooked because it's such a small town

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Speaker 4: and it was balanced out by some you know, lower

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Speaker 4: votes for one Nation in regional centers. So commentators did

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Speaker 4: not see this coming, and even commentators you know, on

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Speaker 4: the more conservative side of politics, really did not see

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Speaker 4: this coming. But so one Nation has been moving up

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Speaker 4: and and over the years it's Waxton Wayne, depending on

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Speaker 4: what's going on nationally. But what happened prior to the

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Speaker 4: Bondai massacre was that Pauline Hansen went into the Senate

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Speaker 4: in Australia's parliament with a burker on as a political stunt,

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Speaker 4: if you like, and she'd done this before, and it

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Speaker 4: barely got any attention because of course Paulin has done

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Speaker 4: that before.

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Speaker 3: But it was just what Pauline was doing.

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Speaker 4: She was making a point about Islamic fundamentalism, I suppose,

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Speaker 4: and people almost ignored it, to be honest, and she

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Speaker 4: was suspended from the Senate for that stunt.

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Speaker 3: That's what everyone said it was.

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Speaker 4: And then, of course, about a month later, the Bondai

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Speaker 4: massacre happened and suddenly Pauline looked like the person who

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Speaker 4: was presient, and I think then even after the massacre

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Speaker 4: throughout January, we had a Parliament recall to deal with,

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Speaker 4: amongst other things, you know, freedom of speech and to

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Speaker 4: try and deal with an urgent response and that didn't

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Speaker 4: go well.

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Speaker 3: Really for either of the major parties.

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Speaker 4: And so so yes, suddenly people voters who rejected one

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Speaker 4: Nation and this kind of stunt suddenly woke up. And

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Speaker 4: so Pauline Hanson is having a huge impact in Australian politics.

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Speaker 3: At the moment.

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Speaker 2: Do you think she really realized or recognized where things

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Speaker 2: were at when she did wear that outfit.

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Speaker 3: In Oh, I don't know, you'd have to ask her.

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Speaker 4: I think I think she probably sensed I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think she probably did it again because she sensed that

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Speaker 4: things were perhaps on a rise for her. So I

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Speaker 4: think the timing of all of this was just absolutely

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Speaker 4: terrific for one Nation, And.

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Speaker 2: And Lewis has based hold on can you hold on

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Speaker 2: a second place? One second?

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Speaker 4: And so the timing, the timing of the Bondai massacre

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Speaker 4: in Australia was given what Pauline had just done in

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Speaker 4: the National Parliament beforehand, was almost cathartic, I suppose. And

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Speaker 4: so so there has been a you know, a legitimate

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Speaker 4: and for me expected awakening might say of the Australian

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Speaker 4: public to that particular issue, and and now others. So

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Speaker 4: and of course that is being influenced by the rupture

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Speaker 4: that is happening around the world.

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Speaker 3: And suddenly the people.

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Speaker 4: Who feel they've been ignored for a very long time,

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Speaker 4: who are the furthest away from power, And that is

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Speaker 4: always like an actual literal geographical matter, but also just

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Speaker 4: a demography matter too.

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Speaker 3: And so the people who.

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Speaker 4: Have I felt that they've not been sent to for

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Speaker 4: a long time have had enough and there's a ground swell.

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Speaker 4: So it doesn't surprise me at all. And I have

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Speaker 4: a lot of conversations with a lot of people in

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Speaker 4: Australian politics, on the left and the right. I have

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Speaker 4: a huge number of friends from all walks of life.

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Speaker 2: As you mentioned some of your friends during our last discussion.

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Speaker 2: I think it was in some concerning concerned mood on

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Speaker 2: your part.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, no, I mean I because I do and

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Speaker 4: have throughout my life straddled these two worlds. I do

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Speaker 4: have and maintain friends who are reasonably left wing or

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Speaker 4: very progressive, and who live in the cities and work

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Speaker 4: in the professions.

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Speaker 3: And so I talk to them frequently.

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Speaker 4: Some of them are university friends, and so we have

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Speaker 4: robust debates about what's going on. And now I am

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Speaker 4: saying to those friends, how do they respond? They are

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Speaker 4: responding sensibly. Actually they can see it, They see it

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Speaker 4: and and they feel it themselves. I mean, even their

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Speaker 4: own attitudes are changing with what's going on.

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Speaker 3: I mean I have.

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Speaker 4: I wrote a piece in the Spectator I think last

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Speaker 4: year about the the realization about of.

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Speaker 3: The loss of the large scale renewable.

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Speaker 4: Projects throughout rural Australia and how that was now being

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Speaker 4: appreciated not just in the communities where the cost of

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Speaker 4: being felt and these are the sort of economic and

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Speaker 4: serious environmental costs, but also just a sense of you know,

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Speaker 4: the impact on people who live close by on their

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Speaker 4: sense of place and amenity, and knowing the economic and

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Speaker 4: environmental costs, and knowing that the people who decided that

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Speaker 4: this was the way to go simply when they did that,

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Speaker 4: had no idea and didn't care. But that the realization

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Speaker 4: around those costs are starting to be felt in the cities.

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Speaker 4: One because the cost of energy is going up and

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Speaker 4: even the wealthier people notice that. But as I as

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Speaker 4: I mused, in a Spectator column. Even the polo set

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Speaker 4: in who live in wealthy eastern suburbs suburbs for instance,

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Speaker 4: but go to the bush to play polo, are noticing,

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Speaker 4: and they're listening to their friends who pay polo, and

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Speaker 4: now they're starting to say, this is not much good. Gosh,

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Speaker 4: this is really hurting people, isn't it. And so I've

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Speaker 4: had those sorts of conversations with people who were only,

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Speaker 4: you know, at the last election, voting for these teal

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Speaker 4: candidates in our inner cities, who are in fact or

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Speaker 4: screens in disguise actually, And so they're starting to query

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Speaker 4: the promises that were made, these sort of progressive promises

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Speaker 4: that we'll sort this out, will sort out climate change,

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Speaker 4: and we'll get you lower electricity prices and it will

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Speaker 4: all be wonderful and we'll live happily ever after. Well,

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Speaker 4: they're now seeing that those promises are not being delivered.

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Speaker 4: And what's more, they're creating a lot of dislocation in

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Speaker 4: our society. So to be fair to them, my friends

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Speaker 4: in that category are also waking up.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: I don't think they're voting for Pauline Hanson, but they

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Speaker 4: are starting to query.

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Speaker 3: Some of this and I've always.

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Speaker 4: Called it populist leftism that we've all been subjected to

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Speaker 4: for the last ten or fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: I do age that if there was one waking up,

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Speaker 2: if there was one name in politics at the moment

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Speaker 2: who was decidedly responsible for much of what you've been

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Speaker 2: talking about and still doesn't care, could you name that person?

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Speaker 4: I think you might be leading me towards a former

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Speaker 4: prime minister.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I'm thinking of Chris Bowen, the Energy minister.

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Speaker 4: Oh, the in current politics.

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Speaker 2: In current politics, there is there is whenever he comes

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Speaker 2: on the screen. Yes, my wife screams Addy, Well, well

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Speaker 2: she doesn't. She doesn't scream, but he annoys her so much,

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Speaker 2: and I have to say that I'm I'm rowing the

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Speaker 2: other side of the boat on that one.

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Speaker 3: Look.

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Speaker 2: I know you don't like to be critical personally.

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, I have a bit of a rule

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Speaker 4: that I don't get into many individuals and personalities who

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Speaker 4: are sort of currently operating in the political sphere in

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Speaker 4: Australia at the moment, because my husband happens to be

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Speaker 4: one of those politicians at the moment. So whether it's

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Speaker 4: his colleagues or his opponents, I sort of try to

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Speaker 4: avoid being down in those weeks. So as you know

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Speaker 4: late in my husband is Agus Taylor, who's now the

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Speaker 4: newish quite new opposition leader and so so, but I'm

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Speaker 4: very happy to say that, Look, the Labor Party has

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Speaker 4: and it's safe to say this, the Labor Party was

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Speaker 4: during the sort of Morrison years, sneering at the Morrison

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Speaker 4: government for not doing enough on climate change, and they

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Speaker 4: listen to these the so called experts, who told them

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Speaker 4: that we could just quite easily roll out large scale

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Speaker 4: renewables all over the countryside and it would be easy,

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Speaker 4: and that's would fix every problem, without thinking about all

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Speaker 4: these unintended consequences and the impact on local communities, and

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Speaker 4: the just the sheer magnitude of the footprint of these things,

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Speaker 4: and then the unbelievable extra cost of huge transmission lines

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Speaker 4: having to carry tricity from these, you know what are

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Speaker 4: effectively energy factories spread all the countryside. They list to

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Speaker 4: that stupidity, which my husband, who's a former energy minister,

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Speaker 4: said was effectively stupidity, and they listened.

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Speaker 3: To that and said they could do it.

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Speaker 4: And now they've tried to roll it out and it's

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Speaker 4: it's it's a disaster.

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Speaker 2: It's a big disaster.

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Speaker 3: Well it's it's becoming a major economic disaster.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing that is emerging now, and this

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Speaker 4: is quite new here in New South Wales at least,

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Speaker 4: is that the New South Wales Greens are now starting

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Speaker 4: to publicly oppose these developments because they have finally realized,

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Speaker 4: they've finally come on board. They've been out there, they've

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Speaker 4: looked for themselves, they've listened to the people at the

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Speaker 4: cold Face and they now realize that these projects are

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Speaker 4: destroying the environment.

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Speaker 3: That's what they're concerned with.

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Speaker 4: And so look, I think the Labor Premier has a

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Speaker 4: big problem with this rollout because the pushback is now.

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Speaker 2: Huge, and that's the New South Wales Premier.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and the Greens are now supporting the pushback in

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Speaker 4: the New South Wales Parliament on behalf of constituents affected

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Speaker 4: and from the National Party and some members of the

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Speaker 4: Liberal Party who are now whose voices who have been

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Speaker 4: crying out for attention from their city colleagues are now

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Speaker 4: starting to be heard, so for the first time they're

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Speaker 4: taking very seriously. For example, the voice of our local

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Speaker 4: state MP, Wendy Tuckerman, who has been banging on now

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Speaker 4: for a couple of years about the fact that there

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Speaker 4: is no legal requirement for remediation at the end of

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Speaker 4: the life life of these projects, which applies to any

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Speaker 4: other similar project project, whether it's you're building a industrial

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Speaker 4: estate or some sort of mining development. This whole rush

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Speaker 4: to eighty two percent renewables has been done without that.

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Speaker 4: And when people over recent years have been saying what

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Speaker 4: about remediation, what happens at the end of the life

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Speaker 4: of these projects, they have just been ignored. And the

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Speaker 4: cost of putting in place funds upfront by developers into

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Speaker 4: a government run a trust sort of fund to accommodate

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Speaker 4: remediation at the end of the life would be another

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Speaker 4: huge impediment to the development of these projects, which is

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Speaker 4: really why they haven't required it of the developments of

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Speaker 4: the developers. And so there's adawning realization now finally, after

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Speaker 4: many years of pushback from local push back from the

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Speaker 4: MPs who listen to them, that in fact, this sees

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Speaker 4: a big problem.

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Speaker 3: And this is why people at.

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Speaker 4: The coal face are so angry, because where we've gone

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Speaker 4: a long way down this path and it's actually just

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Speaker 4: incredibly destructive and I don't know how they're going to

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Speaker 4: resolve it.

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Speaker 2: Actually, well, that might be up to other people. It

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Speaker 2: will be after the next election. I just want to

401
00:27:38,693 --> 00:27:43,213
Speaker 2: wind up on Chris Bowen. He is, from my perspective,

402
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Speaker 2: unfamiliar and this is the polite way of putting it,

403
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Speaker 2: unfamiliar with the reality of climate matters, totally out of

404
00:27:51,173 --> 00:27:56,853
Speaker 2: link with what the reality is, and like a normal

405
00:27:57,013 --> 00:28:01,653
Speaker 2: individual in his category, he refuses to acknowledge it, he

406
00:28:01,893 --> 00:28:05,213
Speaker 2: refuses to. We have him here. We've got government members

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Speaker 2: who are supposedly of the center right who simply don't

408
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Speaker 2: want to know. They will not listen to any real experts,

409
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Speaker 2: they won't read anything that that counters what they decided

410
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Speaker 2: that they believe, and they're screwing the they're screwing the country.

411
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Speaker 2: We have the same issue, but not to the same

412
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Speaker 2: level that you that you.

413
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Speaker 4: Do, I would say, he is just an ideologue and

414
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Speaker 4: he's arrogant. Well, I think he really did believe this,

415
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Speaker 4: that it could be done and done easily, and it

416
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Speaker 4: was suggested that in fact, you know, the center right,

417
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Speaker 4: that the liberals and the Nationals were the ideal logues

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Speaker 4: for simply not coming on board this years ago. What

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Speaker 4: has happened now is that reality has caught up with

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Speaker 4: these people and they've gone so far into their progressive

421
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Speaker 4: overreach and they they can't step down. I mean, for

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Speaker 4: for for the Labor Party to now turn around on

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Speaker 4: this would be enormous and they're stuck.

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Speaker 3: To be fair to.

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Speaker 4: Them, and yeah, to be fair to them, they have

426
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Speaker 4: been sold this by very powerful people who with very

427
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Speaker 4: significant interests, who they assumed were experts and that they

428
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Speaker 4: knew better than them. And so I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of the people on the labor and green side of

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Speaker 4: politics in our country, I think their belief was absolutely

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Speaker 4: it was belief.

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Speaker 3: For them, it was you know, it was religion.

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Speaker 4: But they believed the so called experts who told them

434
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Speaker 4: this could be done. The problem is that the experts

435
00:29:52,373 --> 00:29:56,133
Speaker 4: hadn't really thought everything through. And this gets back to

436
00:29:56,173 --> 00:29:59,613
Speaker 4: my theme, my constant theme over recent years about technocracy.

437
00:29:59,733 --> 00:30:03,933
Speaker 4: Because the people, the so called independent experts who make

438
00:30:04,733 --> 00:30:08,173
Speaker 4: who sort of dream up policy, often with the best

439
00:30:08,173 --> 00:30:12,893
Speaker 4: of intentions about how the problems in society should be sold,

440
00:30:12,973 --> 00:30:16,093
Speaker 4: and then the politicians standing kind them and say, all

441
00:30:16,093 --> 00:30:18,973
Speaker 4: the experts have told us so sciences in the experts

442
00:30:19,013 --> 00:30:22,373
Speaker 4: know this is what we must do. The experts actually

443
00:30:22,453 --> 00:30:26,813
Speaker 4: don't know because they're too far removed from the cold

444
00:30:26,893 --> 00:30:31,013
Speaker 4: face and they haven't thought about the unintended consequences. They

445
00:30:31,173 --> 00:30:35,453
Speaker 4: just don't have all the knowledge that is necessary to

446
00:30:35,693 --> 00:30:43,453
Speaker 4: plug into their spreadsheets and their models.

447
00:30:40,493 --> 00:30:42,253
Speaker 3: And and they're a bit biased.

448
00:30:42,253 --> 00:30:45,973
Speaker 4: They're their progressive minded and you know they they might

449
00:30:46,933 --> 00:30:50,573
Speaker 4: just be also hoping that it would work too perhaps,

450
00:30:50,613 --> 00:30:56,853
Speaker 4: But I think there has been this very fashionable progressive

451
00:30:57,253 --> 00:31:00,973
Speaker 4: sense of we can do anything if those terrible conservatives

452
00:31:00,973 --> 00:31:04,213
Speaker 4: who keep raising problems, you know, would just get out

453
00:31:04,213 --> 00:31:04,653
Speaker 4: of the way.

454
00:31:05,813 --> 00:31:07,813
Speaker 3: And it's now catching up with them.

455
00:31:08,453 --> 00:31:13,093
Speaker 4: So look, I don't know how the current Labor Party

456
00:31:13,173 --> 00:31:15,173
Speaker 4: is going to get out of this predicament there, but

457
00:31:15,773 --> 00:31:20,053
Speaker 4: there is now a cacophony lining up against them on

458
00:31:20,133 --> 00:31:23,253
Speaker 4: the right of politics in this country. You can put

459
00:31:23,293 --> 00:31:26,973
Speaker 4: to one side the split in the right between one

460
00:31:27,093 --> 00:31:31,533
Speaker 4: Nation and the Coalition and even others. There is now

461
00:31:31,653 --> 00:31:33,693
Speaker 4: a cacophony of noise.

462
00:31:34,653 --> 00:31:39,253
Speaker 2: Yep is trouble is that it's a long time for

463
00:31:39,293 --> 00:31:39,933
Speaker 2: the next election.

464
00:31:41,413 --> 00:31:45,733
Speaker 4: That is a very big problem. However, in Australia we

465
00:31:45,813 --> 00:31:48,413
Speaker 4: only have two years until the next election. I think

466
00:31:48,453 --> 00:31:51,853
Speaker 4: our shorter election cycles can sometimes be a bad thing

467
00:31:51,893 --> 00:31:55,653
Speaker 4: because it's very hard for governments to get governing if

468
00:31:55,653 --> 00:31:59,173
Speaker 4: you like, and and sort of take unpopular decisions when

469
00:31:59,213 --> 00:32:03,973
Speaker 4: they need to and let the sort of impact sort

470
00:32:04,013 --> 00:32:10,373
Speaker 4: of play out. But the UK, their election was way

471
00:32:10,413 --> 00:32:14,773
Speaker 4: before hours was it still much further away. So it

472
00:32:14,853 --> 00:32:20,133
Speaker 4: is two years, but it will go quickly. And I

473
00:32:20,173 --> 00:32:22,773
Speaker 4: think we're going to see the Labor Party in for

474
00:32:22,813 --> 00:32:28,573
Speaker 4: a world of pain as the pushback against the progressive overreach.

475
00:32:29,693 --> 00:32:34,493
Speaker 2: Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Jim Chalmers is the treasurer,

476
00:32:35,533 --> 00:32:40,013
Speaker 2: is not much better than Chris Bowen, though right, well

477
00:32:40,053 --> 00:32:44,733
Speaker 2: again here we go. So I realized that, but you've

478
00:32:44,733 --> 00:32:49,493
Speaker 2: announced it. So Angus Taylor, your spouse. He's an economist

479
00:32:49,533 --> 00:32:54,613
Speaker 2: by education, and he was a champion economist.

480
00:32:55,813 --> 00:33:01,293
Speaker 4: Well, he has a pretty impeccable economics credentials, but he also,

481
00:33:02,013 --> 00:33:04,573
Speaker 4: then I think you would say, throughout his career, then

482
00:33:04,613 --> 00:33:07,733
Speaker 4: applied those credentials in the real world. I mean he

483
00:33:07,813 --> 00:33:11,493
Speaker 4: was a management consultant of in sort of the resources

484
00:33:11,533 --> 00:33:16,573
Speaker 4: and agriculture sectors, and in fact, as a management consultant consultant,

485
00:33:16,653 --> 00:33:20,933
Speaker 4: he helped turned fon terror or create fon terror and

486
00:33:22,253 --> 00:33:25,533
Speaker 4: create the co op that is your fon terror. There

487
00:33:26,173 --> 00:33:29,213
Speaker 4: or years ago in New Zealand, so he's had a

488
00:33:29,253 --> 00:33:33,933
Speaker 4: bit to do with agriculture in New Zealand too. So look,

489
00:33:33,973 --> 00:33:40,773
Speaker 4: he's yeah, he's not an academic economist, but he's you know,

490
00:33:40,813 --> 00:33:43,173
Speaker 4: he still reads all the economics papers and he does

491
00:33:43,293 --> 00:33:44,693
Speaker 4: understand economics fairly well.

492
00:33:45,693 --> 00:33:50,133
Speaker 3: And no, jimm is not an economist. Now.

493
00:33:50,173 --> 00:33:54,613
Speaker 4: I mean there've been great Australian treasurers who aren't economists.

494
00:33:54,893 --> 00:33:59,373
Speaker 4: I mean, whether it's Peter Costello on our side, or

495
00:33:59,573 --> 00:34:03,453
Speaker 4: some people might even have some sort of fondness for

496
00:34:03,653 --> 00:34:11,493
Speaker 4: poor Eating didn't go to university and was a fairly

497
00:34:11,533 --> 00:34:18,333
Speaker 4: good treasurer, a reforming treasurer. So I don't think you

498
00:34:18,533 --> 00:34:22,333
Speaker 4: need to be an economist to do well in economics

499
00:34:22,333 --> 00:34:27,413
Speaker 4: in politics. John Howard had a terrific grasp of economics,

500
00:34:28,253 --> 00:34:30,613
Speaker 4: but I don't know that he may have studied it,

501
00:34:30,613 --> 00:34:34,293
Speaker 4: but he certainly wasn't an economist and was a lawyer

502
00:34:34,333 --> 00:34:38,733
Speaker 4: by training. So look, I think the problem with the

503
00:34:39,013 --> 00:34:41,613
Speaker 4: identities in the Labor Party at the moment, with the

504
00:34:41,773 --> 00:34:47,173
Speaker 4: key people in the key portfolios, is that they all

505
00:34:47,293 --> 00:34:54,773
Speaker 4: fell for this progressive overreach, for these great promises that

506
00:34:54,813 --> 00:34:57,253
Speaker 4: we could just change the world and change it quickly

507
00:34:58,053 --> 00:35:01,093
Speaker 4: if those silly conservatives would just listen. And it is

508
00:35:01,213 --> 00:35:06,573
Speaker 4: not working and it is backfiring, and instead of doing

509
00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:10,253
Speaker 4: things in a balanced way, they've just completely overreached and

510
00:35:11,533 --> 00:35:14,933
Speaker 4: it's not going well. And that's been happening all around

511
00:35:14,973 --> 00:35:19,213
Speaker 4: the West. It has, all right, so it's not here

512
00:35:20,293 --> 00:35:22,933
Speaker 4: just in Australia that we're seeing that.

513
00:35:23,053 --> 00:35:26,453
Speaker 2: Now, all right, let's turn attention to to something else.

514
00:35:28,333 --> 00:35:34,573
Speaker 2: Since we spoke in three h two, Bondai happened, and

515
00:35:34,613 --> 00:35:38,573
Speaker 2: it was only a few weeks after that that I

516
00:35:38,733 --> 00:35:43,253
Speaker 2: was in well, missus producer and I were both in Bondai.

517
00:35:43,853 --> 00:35:49,333
Speaker 2: But Bondai was as quiet as a mouse. The streets

518
00:35:49,333 --> 00:35:53,893
Speaker 2: were not full. They weren't they weren't totally empty, but

519
00:35:53,933 --> 00:35:58,133
Speaker 2: there was just a lack of people and everyone was

520
00:35:58,133 --> 00:36:01,893
Speaker 2: being quiet. Didn't matter where you went around that Bondai area,

521
00:36:02,773 --> 00:36:06,533
Speaker 2: there was just quietness. People didn't want to make a noise.

522
00:36:07,213 --> 00:36:10,933
Speaker 2: It was a very, very moving experience. Now I won't

523
00:36:10,973 --> 00:36:13,733
Speaker 2: stay like that, of course, because Bondai is Bondai. But

524
00:36:14,213 --> 00:36:19,333
Speaker 2: that leads me on to the question of multiculturalism. Yes,

525
00:36:19,413 --> 00:36:23,573
Speaker 2: but I'm interested to know your thoughts on the future

526
00:36:23,613 --> 00:36:25,493
Speaker 2: of multiculturalism in Australia.

527
00:36:26,893 --> 00:36:32,533
Speaker 4: Yes, well, this is a very big and incredibly important

528
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:37,053
Speaker 4: question for our country. Actually, look from the right, there's

529
00:36:37,093 --> 00:36:46,573
Speaker 4: a big pushback against multiculturalism all across the world, and

530
00:36:46,653 --> 00:36:49,613
Speaker 4: that is understandable because there are people who are saying

531
00:36:50,693 --> 00:36:53,413
Speaker 4: we've lost our country. I don't recognize it anymore, and

532
00:36:53,453 --> 00:36:59,373
Speaker 4: this is mostly from conservatives and older people. Now I

533
00:36:59,453 --> 00:37:04,053
Speaker 4: understand that I personally as an Australian though, and as

534
00:37:04,093 --> 00:37:07,773
Speaker 4: an Australian who knows a little bit about our demographics

535
00:37:08,493 --> 00:37:13,653
Speaker 4: of understand the fact that our country, along with Switzerland,

536
00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:19,453
Speaker 4: has the highest number in the world of overseas born

537
00:37:19,493 --> 00:37:21,533
Speaker 4: people living in it at the moment, and that is

538
00:37:21,533 --> 00:37:24,613
Speaker 4: the thirty percent, which is very high. Now some of

539
00:37:24,613 --> 00:37:27,813
Speaker 4: those are citizens and non citizens. I think about ten

540
00:37:27,853 --> 00:37:31,933
Speaker 4: percent non citizens, but that is incredibly high, and it's

541
00:37:32,013 --> 00:37:34,733
Speaker 4: equal with Switzerland.

542
00:37:35,333 --> 00:37:35,493
Speaker 3: Now.

543
00:37:35,533 --> 00:37:39,813
Speaker 4: People would be surprised to know that in America that

544
00:37:39,933 --> 00:37:44,173
Speaker 4: number is only at around fifteen percent, and in the UK,

545
00:37:44,533 --> 00:37:48,733
Speaker 4: until not so many years ago, it was around fifteen

546
00:37:48,733 --> 00:37:53,533
Speaker 4: percent too, and it's hovering now towards twenty percent because

547
00:37:53,533 --> 00:37:57,933
Speaker 4: they've had a massive influx just in recent times. But

548
00:37:58,053 --> 00:38:02,093
Speaker 4: it's interesting that Australia is actually a lot higher than that,

549
00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:07,413
Speaker 4: and that is because we have been a great immigrant

550
00:38:07,493 --> 00:38:13,453
Speaker 4: nation and the most successful immigration immigrant nation in the

551
00:38:13,453 --> 00:38:18,493
Speaker 4: world until now, and it has by and large worked

552
00:38:18,533 --> 00:38:23,253
Speaker 4: incredibly well for us until now, and Bondi has now

553
00:38:23,653 --> 00:38:27,413
Speaker 4: the Bondai massacre has sort of raised that question about

554
00:38:28,093 --> 00:38:31,453
Speaker 4: whether we've gone too far or not now. I think

555
00:38:31,653 --> 00:38:37,333
Speaker 4: in Australia, I mean I have friends and my children

556
00:38:37,413 --> 00:38:41,413
Speaker 4: have friends who they've been through school and university, who

557
00:38:41,453 --> 00:38:46,893
Speaker 4: are every color of the rainbow and from every every

558
00:38:47,053 --> 00:38:50,373
Speaker 4: kind of extraction from every country around the world, who

559
00:38:50,413 --> 00:38:55,973
Speaker 4: are great Australians and from great Australian families. I like

560
00:38:56,013 --> 00:38:58,853
Speaker 4: to think I'm colorblind and I know my children are

561
00:38:59,173 --> 00:39:00,693
Speaker 4: where that's the way they've been raised.

562
00:39:01,293 --> 00:39:04,973
Speaker 3: So it has been very successful for us.

563
00:39:05,053 --> 00:39:08,813
Speaker 4: And that success started with the Snowy Mountain Scheme when

564
00:39:09,053 --> 00:39:14,133
Speaker 4: we had the biggest engineering project in Australia to build

565
00:39:14,893 --> 00:39:20,013
Speaker 4: these hydroelectric power scheme that solved our energy problems that

566
00:39:20,053 --> 00:39:20,893
Speaker 4: were dire.

567
00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:22,013
Speaker 3: Post World War Two.

568
00:39:22,373 --> 00:39:23,253
Speaker 2: And it was massive.

569
00:39:23,973 --> 00:39:24,573
Speaker 3: It was huge.

570
00:39:24,573 --> 00:39:27,293
Speaker 4: It was the biggest engineering project in the world at

571
00:39:27,293 --> 00:39:32,893
Speaker 4: the time and remained the biggest project I think for decades.

572
00:39:33,013 --> 00:39:35,053
Speaker 4: I think it's been surpassed now and I'm not sure

573
00:39:35,093 --> 00:39:38,653
Speaker 4: which projects have surpassed it. But just another little family

574
00:39:38,693 --> 00:39:43,893
Speaker 4: anecdote for you later is that my husband, Angus Taylor's

575
00:39:44,373 --> 00:39:48,213
Speaker 4: maternal grandfather was in charge of that scheme, and he

576
00:39:48,253 --> 00:39:51,573
Speaker 4: was a New Zealander. His name was William Hudson. He

577
00:39:51,693 --> 00:39:54,613
Speaker 4: was later knighted for his role in that scheme. So

578
00:39:54,733 --> 00:39:59,973
Speaker 4: he is or was Sir William Hudson, and his official

579
00:39:59,973 --> 00:40:03,133
Speaker 4: title was the Chief Engineer of the Snowy Mountain Scheme.

580
00:40:03,573 --> 00:40:06,253
Speaker 4: He was appointed by the Chief Lely government, but the

581
00:40:06,373 --> 00:40:11,053
Speaker 4: Chief Engineer was effectively the CEO two and so he

582
00:40:11,053 --> 00:40:15,013
Speaker 4: held that position for twenty five years, and he ran

583
00:40:15,053 --> 00:40:22,453
Speaker 4: that scheme as an unbelievable leader of people. And he

584
00:40:22,613 --> 00:40:28,173
Speaker 4: was behind the idea to bring out all of the

585
00:40:28,253 --> 00:40:33,533
Speaker 4: immigrants from Europe, a huge number for the times, and

586
00:40:34,053 --> 00:40:36,773
Speaker 4: throw them onto the scheme because we needed them. And

587
00:40:36,813 --> 00:40:41,813
Speaker 4: there were thirty three different nations who worked whose people

588
00:40:42,253 --> 00:40:45,973
Speaker 4: were represented on the Snowy Scheme, and a lot of

589
00:40:46,013 --> 00:40:48,613
Speaker 4: them wanted to because it was just after the war.

590
00:40:49,253 --> 00:40:51,053
Speaker 4: A lot of them had been fighting each other in

591
00:40:51,093 --> 00:40:55,693
Speaker 4: Europe and they wanted to go into ethnic camps. They

592
00:40:55,693 --> 00:40:58,893
Speaker 4: wanted the Serbs wanted their camp, and the Italians wanted

593
00:40:58,893 --> 00:41:02,533
Speaker 4: their camp, and the Germans wanted to be here. And

594
00:41:02,573 --> 00:41:06,013
Speaker 4: he insisted that they all worked together, that he would

595
00:41:06,053 --> 00:41:09,053
Speaker 4: not allow them to the cause they all lived in

596
00:41:09,693 --> 00:41:14,453
Speaker 4: camps around in the mountains. And he pushed them all

597
00:41:14,453 --> 00:41:17,293
Speaker 4: together deliberately because he said they all had to learn

598
00:41:17,373 --> 00:41:18,453
Speaker 4: to work with each other.

599
00:41:18,773 --> 00:41:20,453
Speaker 3: And it was a huge success.

600
00:41:22,053 --> 00:41:24,293
Speaker 4: And then they, of course, after the scheme has finished,

601
00:41:24,293 --> 00:41:27,813
Speaker 4: they went out into our country and became great Australians.

602
00:41:27,853 --> 00:41:32,733
Speaker 4: And so that is, that is the success story upon

603
00:41:32,853 --> 00:41:39,773
Speaker 4: which our our multicultural nation was founded, and I think

604
00:41:39,773 --> 00:41:43,293
Speaker 4: that's got to be the model going forward. I mean,

605
00:41:43,333 --> 00:41:47,093
Speaker 4: I like to think of I mean, we all come

606
00:41:47,133 --> 00:41:51,653
Speaker 4: from somewhere. I'm from you know, mostly English and some

607
00:41:51,773 --> 00:41:54,413
Speaker 4: Irish stock exclusively, but.

608
00:41:56,453 --> 00:41:57,453
Speaker 3: We all come from somewhere.

609
00:41:57,453 --> 00:42:01,533
Speaker 4: But I do like to think that most Australians, even

610
00:42:01,573 --> 00:42:04,693
Speaker 4: if they bring another culture with them, another identity, even

611
00:42:04,773 --> 00:42:10,333
Speaker 4: another faith, are Australians for and then they bring some

612
00:42:10,413 --> 00:42:13,333
Speaker 4: of that with them. So now is that breaking down

613
00:42:13,573 --> 00:42:17,053
Speaker 4: a bit too much? And are there some faith some

614
00:42:17,213 --> 00:42:20,773
Speaker 4: groups that are living in enclaves and not you know,

615
00:42:21,133 --> 00:42:23,173
Speaker 4: not being properly Australian.

616
00:42:23,253 --> 00:42:26,453
Speaker 3: Yes, that's that's definitely happening. Should we try to stop that.

617
00:42:26,733 --> 00:42:30,333
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a matter of it's a matter of culture

618
00:42:30,413 --> 00:42:31,133
Speaker 2: rather than race.

619
00:42:32,893 --> 00:42:36,493
Speaker 4: Absolutely, of course it is, yes, and it must be

620
00:42:36,573 --> 00:42:40,733
Speaker 4: going forward. So look, we're about to have a big

621
00:42:40,773 --> 00:42:45,893
Speaker 4: debate going into the next federal election about immigration and

622
00:42:46,013 --> 00:42:53,893
Speaker 4: levels of immigration, and that is I think less about

623
00:42:55,253 --> 00:43:00,453
Speaker 4: a rejection by most Australians of multiculturalism. I just don't

624
00:43:00,493 --> 00:43:04,213
Speaker 4: think that's broadly speaking who we are. But it will

625
00:43:04,213 --> 00:43:10,693
Speaker 4: be a legitimate debate around just bringing too many people

626
00:43:10,733 --> 00:43:14,973
Speaker 4: in and the impact on the economy and in particular

627
00:43:15,013 --> 00:43:18,173
Speaker 4: on housing, which is like the rest of the West,

628
00:43:18,733 --> 00:43:23,893
Speaker 4: in a complete crisis, but in Australia he's becoming very acutet.

629
00:43:24,653 --> 00:43:27,813
Speaker 4: We just don't have enough homes for the people who

630
00:43:27,853 --> 00:43:32,373
Speaker 4: are living here and it's created an affordability crisis along

631
00:43:32,413 --> 00:43:33,093
Speaker 4: with another you.

632
00:43:33,013 --> 00:43:38,093
Speaker 2: Know, well we both countries have the same problem. Yes,

633
00:43:38,653 --> 00:43:43,733
Speaker 2: I want to impose this if I may so. William Hudson,

634
00:43:44,213 --> 00:43:47,533
Speaker 2: civil engineer, born on twenty seven April eighteen ninety six

635
00:43:47,613 --> 00:43:52,613
Speaker 2: in East Nelson, New Zealand, seventh of eleven children of

636
00:43:52,773 --> 00:43:56,173
Speaker 2: James Hudson, a medical practitioner from London, and his new

637
00:43:56,293 --> 00:44:01,413
Speaker 2: Zealand born wife Beatrice Jane Nie Andrew and doctor Hudson

638
00:44:01,533 --> 00:44:04,253
Speaker 2: kept a tight reign on his family and expected Bill

639
00:44:04,293 --> 00:44:09,533
Speaker 2: to study medicine. Bill enraged him when his matriculation year

640
00:44:09,533 --> 00:44:11,893
Speaker 2: at Nelson College, he said he wanted to be a

641
00:44:11,893 --> 00:44:16,973
Speaker 2: civil engineer. In a classic case of parental misjudgment, the

642
00:44:17,093 --> 00:44:20,333
Speaker 2: father told the son destined to become a world leader

643
00:44:20,333 --> 00:44:24,173
Speaker 2: in his profession, Bill, that is about aud your bloody

644
00:44:24,173 --> 00:44:30,573
Speaker 2: well good for anyway. He moved to Australia in nineteen twenty.

645
00:44:30,253 --> 00:44:32,173
Speaker 3: Eight, Yes, via Scotland.

646
00:44:32,213 --> 00:44:34,373
Speaker 4: I think he'd been building dams in Scotland when he

647
00:44:34,453 --> 00:44:38,893
Speaker 4: arrived here, and then I worked on the Nepean Dam

648
00:44:39,453 --> 00:44:43,653
Speaker 4: or somewhere up there for a while, and then there

649
00:44:43,693 --> 00:44:48,653
Speaker 4: came this idea to build the hydro electric scheme. And

650
00:44:50,173 --> 00:44:52,653
Speaker 4: I think legend has it, and I think it's true.

651
00:44:53,213 --> 00:44:58,493
Speaker 4: It was reported somewhere that chiefly said to his minister,

652
00:44:58,533 --> 00:45:01,173
Speaker 4: I've forgotten who the minister was at the time, bring

653
00:45:01,213 --> 00:45:05,493
Speaker 4: me three names. And the minister at the time brought

654
00:45:05,493 --> 00:45:08,133
Speaker 4: three names to cabinet on a piece of paper.

655
00:45:08,373 --> 00:45:10,533
Speaker 2: I know what they said, and it.

656
00:45:10,533 --> 00:45:16,013
Speaker 4: Said Hudson, Hudson, Hudson. So that there are some great stories.

657
00:45:16,333 --> 00:45:21,453
Speaker 4: There are some wonderful stories about him and the kind

658
00:45:21,493 --> 00:45:25,213
Speaker 4: of leader he was. There is a there's a book

659
00:45:25,293 --> 00:45:30,733
Speaker 4: on leadership where the author, I think it's a book

660
00:45:30,773 --> 00:45:33,333
Speaker 4: that's been around for some time, looks at different models

661
00:45:33,333 --> 00:45:38,653
Speaker 4: of leadership and he gives a whole chapter to William Hudson.

662
00:45:39,613 --> 00:45:42,773
Speaker 4: I think he called him a model leader. He was

663
00:45:43,573 --> 00:45:47,333
Speaker 4: a very astute man, but he also led by example.

664
00:45:47,453 --> 00:45:50,413
Speaker 4: He was a workaholic, and so I think I don't

665
00:45:50,413 --> 00:45:53,493
Speaker 4: think this is recorded, but there is a legend in

666
00:45:53,613 --> 00:45:56,293
Speaker 4: Kuma where he lived. He lived in a house on

667
00:45:56,493 --> 00:46:00,013
Speaker 4: a right at the top of a hill where most

668
00:46:00,013 --> 00:46:01,733
Speaker 4: people in the town or a lot of people could

669
00:46:01,813 --> 00:46:06,773
Speaker 4: see that his bedroom or his office light on, and

670
00:46:06,813 --> 00:46:09,213
Speaker 4: people used to say it was the life last light

671
00:46:09,413 --> 00:46:12,493
Speaker 4: to go off in Kuma, because he'd be up for

672
00:46:12,533 --> 00:46:16,653
Speaker 4: all hours of the night just working, communicating, writing letters.

673
00:46:17,533 --> 00:46:19,213
Speaker 3: He was very good.

674
00:46:20,213 --> 00:46:23,573
Speaker 4: I mean every single piece of that project, because there

675
00:46:23,573 --> 00:46:26,653
Speaker 4: were different dams built. It was an enormous project that

676
00:46:26,813 --> 00:46:28,853
Speaker 4: went over, as I said, more than twenty five years.

677
00:46:28,893 --> 00:46:34,973
Speaker 4: I think thirty years. Every single project came in on

678
00:46:35,173 --> 00:46:37,253
Speaker 4: or under budget and under time.

679
00:46:38,253 --> 00:46:41,013
Speaker 2: I tell you what we need work, but he work.

680
00:46:41,813 --> 00:46:42,333
Speaker 3: We do.

681
00:46:43,693 --> 00:46:46,013
Speaker 4: And he was a bit of a slave driver, but

682
00:46:46,133 --> 00:46:49,653
Speaker 4: he cared a lot for his people. And so Angus

683
00:46:49,693 --> 00:46:52,133
Speaker 4: has been approached by so many people through his time.

684
00:46:52,813 --> 00:46:55,093
Speaker 3: He's sort of twelve years so far in politics.

685
00:46:55,133 --> 00:46:57,853
Speaker 4: Who will approach him in the street or at an

686
00:46:57,893 --> 00:47:01,853
Speaker 4: event or at a country show and say, your grandfather

687
00:47:02,013 --> 00:47:05,573
Speaker 4: helped my grandmother or my father or my and there

688
00:47:05,613 --> 00:47:08,893
Speaker 4: was this act of kindness, you know, And so he

689
00:47:09,093 --> 00:47:14,933
Speaker 4: was just respected and imbired by the people who worked

690
00:47:14,973 --> 00:47:15,493
Speaker 4: on the scheme.

691
00:47:17,133 --> 00:47:18,293
Speaker 3: He was an amazing leader.

692
00:47:18,973 --> 00:47:21,893
Speaker 2: Well for those who are interested, and they will be

693
00:47:22,653 --> 00:47:27,493
Speaker 2: so William Hudson, do a search and choose the Australian

694
00:47:27,533 --> 00:47:33,373
Speaker 2: Dictionary of Biography as your goal comes up right right

695
00:47:33,373 --> 00:47:36,973
Speaker 2: near the top. And it's an amazing It's quite a long,

696
00:47:37,173 --> 00:47:40,773
Speaker 2: but it's an amazing story. I've been listening to you

697
00:47:40,933 --> 00:47:43,093
Speaker 2: and trying to soak up some of that at the

698
00:47:43,093 --> 00:47:49,413
Speaker 2: same time. Anyway, I'm so pleased you raise that's that's magic.

699
00:47:50,253 --> 00:47:51,453
Speaker 3: It is magic, and.

700
00:47:53,853 --> 00:47:57,093
Speaker 4: It's so I mean, look, I've been profoundly interested and

701
00:47:57,573 --> 00:48:01,133
Speaker 4: impacted by that. It helps me because I'm married to

702
00:48:01,133 --> 00:48:06,013
Speaker 4: Angus his grandson, to better understand the Australian story. But

703
00:48:06,133 --> 00:48:11,613
Speaker 4: also you know, see a way through for our immigrant nation.

704
00:48:12,453 --> 00:48:17,653
Speaker 4: There's this, you know, there's this terrible strain of anti

705
00:48:18,093 --> 00:48:23,213
Speaker 4: immigrant sort of almost white supremacy coming through some of

706
00:48:23,293 --> 00:48:29,213
Speaker 4: our more virulent right wing you know, podcast influencer politics,

707
00:48:29,493 --> 00:48:34,733
Speaker 4: particularly out of America. I don't like that, and we

708
00:48:34,813 --> 00:48:39,333
Speaker 4: can't we can't go back to that sort of that,

709
00:48:39,453 --> 00:48:43,853
Speaker 4: those kinds of attitudes, and so I think the only

710
00:48:43,893 --> 00:48:48,493
Speaker 4: way forward is for our country in particular to embrace

711
00:48:49,373 --> 00:48:53,293
Speaker 4: you know, all of us together and work together and

712
00:48:53,293 --> 00:48:57,813
Speaker 4: and be proud of that legacy that we have, but

713
00:48:57,893 --> 00:49:03,333
Speaker 4: also insist I think that those who do not share

714
00:49:03,333 --> 00:49:05,573
Speaker 4: our values are not welcome.

715
00:49:06,413 --> 00:49:10,893
Speaker 3: We need to be much more kere. Okay, So who comes.

716
00:49:10,653 --> 00:49:15,773
Speaker 2: In Absolutely, what I'm going to suggest is, from my perspective,

717
00:49:16,573 --> 00:49:20,653
Speaker 2: it's lack of it's lack of leadership in New Zealand

718
00:49:20,653 --> 00:49:26,733
Speaker 2: and Australia, in Britain I won't include America, but in

719
00:49:27,173 --> 00:49:34,333
Speaker 2: the anglosphere it's it's just a weakness of strength of character,

720
00:49:35,053 --> 00:49:35,973
Speaker 2: is the way I put it.

721
00:49:37,613 --> 00:49:44,013
Speaker 4: Yes, Look, it's just been easy for politicians and treasurers

722
00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:48,493
Speaker 4: to sort of keep bringing immigrantcy in because it helps

723
00:49:48,533 --> 00:49:52,013
Speaker 4: with the numbers, it helps with growth, It makes those

724
00:49:52,053 --> 00:49:56,853
Speaker 4: big sort of macro economic numbers look better, and to

725
00:49:56,893 --> 00:50:02,893
Speaker 4: be fair, until recently, the unintended consequences were not evident.

726
00:50:03,773 --> 00:50:07,813
Speaker 4: There are evident to some of us, but you know,

727
00:50:08,013 --> 00:50:14,773
Speaker 4: the problems on the ground, the impact on infrastructure and

728
00:50:14,973 --> 00:50:19,093
Speaker 4: health and housing, was being felt again by the people

729
00:50:19,173 --> 00:50:23,773
Speaker 4: who were further removed from power and starting to cry

730
00:50:23,813 --> 00:50:27,173
Speaker 4: out saying, hold on, well, there's not enough room. I've

731
00:50:27,253 --> 00:50:29,933
Speaker 4: got a queue up at in an emergency room for

732
00:50:29,973 --> 00:50:32,733
Speaker 4: too long. You know, I can't my kids can't buy

733
00:50:32,733 --> 00:50:35,573
Speaker 4: a house. That's been going on for a while, and

734
00:50:35,613 --> 00:50:41,613
Speaker 4: now you know, it's quite clear that too much immigration

735
00:50:42,693 --> 00:50:50,973
Speaker 4: has contributed significantly to that, and now the political parties are.

736
00:50:49,653 --> 00:50:52,453
Speaker 3: Paying the price for that. It's happening everywhere.

737
00:50:54,133 --> 00:50:58,373
Speaker 4: It's easy to say that this was really obvious for

738
00:50:58,413 --> 00:51:02,773
Speaker 4: a long time because it wasn't that obvious to a

739
00:51:02,813 --> 00:51:06,133
Speaker 4: lot of people. To be honest, it was obvious to

740
00:51:06,173 --> 00:51:09,533
Speaker 4: the people who were not being listened to, but it

741
00:51:09,653 --> 00:51:11,213
Speaker 4: just wasn't obvious to others.

742
00:51:12,333 --> 00:51:16,613
Speaker 2: And you're you're quite right. I want to make reference

743
00:51:16,653 --> 00:51:21,533
Speaker 2: to last night's Sky Australia News, which we get here

744
00:51:22,493 --> 00:51:28,493
Speaker 2: and the subject of the Liberal Party, which is the

745
00:51:28,533 --> 00:51:34,573
Speaker 2: party that you're part of. Anger certainly is the I

746
00:51:34,613 --> 00:51:37,653
Speaker 2: don't know whether you saw it or not. No, the

747
00:51:37,733 --> 00:51:40,373
Speaker 2: discussion about now I don't have the names in front

748
00:51:40,373 --> 00:51:43,973
Speaker 2: of me, and that's my that's my failing here. There

749
00:51:44,053 --> 00:51:49,093
Speaker 2: was somebody who was elected to be leader I think,

750
00:51:50,733 --> 00:51:56,493
Speaker 2: and was gone before midnight because it was discovered that

751
00:51:56,493 --> 00:51:59,693
Speaker 2: he's written a letter of support to a for a pedophile.

752
00:52:00,613 --> 00:52:06,693
Speaker 4: Oh yes, no, that is That is a very upsetting

753
00:52:06,693 --> 00:52:12,413
Speaker 4: thing that happened. There was a pre selection in Victoria

754
00:52:13,533 --> 00:52:18,173
Speaker 4: for the state parliament and a people were extremely upset

755
00:52:18,173 --> 00:52:21,893
Speaker 4: about the outcome because the fellow who won the pre

756
00:52:21,933 --> 00:52:29,133
Speaker 4: selection was I suppose, you know, unpopular or not well

757
00:52:29,173 --> 00:52:39,613
Speaker 4: known amongst I suppose it was a conservative of the

758
00:52:40,493 --> 00:52:45,973
Speaker 4: in Australian politics and he beat a very well known

759
00:52:46,053 --> 00:52:51,373
Speaker 4: and very popular woman who has he Well, there's a

760
00:52:51,373 --> 00:52:54,373
Speaker 4: bit of a there's a very long history. But broadly speaking,

761
00:52:54,973 --> 00:52:58,333
Speaker 4: this youngish woman nomin she's not that young.

762
00:52:58,373 --> 00:53:00,293
Speaker 3: She's a suburban.

763
00:52:59,973 --> 00:53:03,973
Speaker 4: Housewife and mother who sort of came into Victorian state

764
00:53:04,013 --> 00:53:07,653
Speaker 4: politics quite a few years ago now with a bit

765
00:53:07,693 --> 00:53:10,373
Speaker 4: of a sarmp because she was just very authentic and

766
00:53:10,413 --> 00:53:14,013
Speaker 4: real and very attractive and could articulate the concerns of

767
00:53:15,413 --> 00:53:19,613
Speaker 4: Western Melbourne and seemed like a great star. But what

768
00:53:19,653 --> 00:53:22,173
Speaker 4: happened some time ago is that she went off to

769
00:53:23,053 --> 00:53:27,653
Speaker 4: a rally where she was there in support of women's rights,

770
00:53:28,453 --> 00:53:33,093
Speaker 4: and the rally became sort of nasty and there were

771
00:53:33,213 --> 00:53:38,053
Speaker 4: Nazis there nearby her rallying for women's rights, effectively against

772
00:53:38,453 --> 00:53:42,733
Speaker 4: transgender rights. So she was a conservative woman rallying for

773
00:53:42,813 --> 00:53:48,893
Speaker 4: women's rights. And after that incident, Victorian politics since then

774
00:53:49,493 --> 00:53:51,733
Speaker 4: has sort of the knock on effect.

775
00:53:51,413 --> 00:53:53,893
Speaker 3: Of that has been very, very unfortunate.

776
00:53:54,013 --> 00:53:58,493
Speaker 4: I think the then leader of the Victorian State Liberal

777
00:53:58,533 --> 00:54:02,373
Speaker 4: Party was against her, and I don't know the detail,

778
00:54:02,413 --> 00:54:04,973
Speaker 4: and I don't because I haven't followed it that closely

779
00:54:05,053 --> 00:54:09,173
Speaker 4: other than from instance, but he criticized her and indicated

780
00:54:09,413 --> 00:54:12,693
Speaker 4: and said that he had she was associating with Nazi

781
00:54:12,733 --> 00:54:19,933
Speaker 4: sympathized sympathizers. That led to a flurry of terrible things,

782
00:54:20,333 --> 00:54:23,413
Speaker 4: her being suspended from the Liberal Party, that led to

783
00:54:23,453 --> 00:54:27,093
Speaker 4: her suing him for defamation and winning that trial. This

784
00:54:27,133 --> 00:54:31,493
Speaker 4: all took months, good Yews, and so there's this. It's

785
00:54:31,613 --> 00:54:35,173
Speaker 4: been the cause of a effectively a civil war within

786
00:54:35,213 --> 00:54:39,733
Speaker 4: the Victorian State Liberal Party as people, you know, not

787
00:54:39,813 --> 00:54:44,133
Speaker 4: just members of parliament, but members of the party and

788
00:54:45,213 --> 00:54:51,013
Speaker 4: factional people became involved and took sides and it just

789
00:54:51,053 --> 00:54:57,733
Speaker 4: continued and it's continuing now unfortunately. And this latest eruption

790
00:54:57,933 --> 00:55:02,933
Speaker 4: when she stood for pre selection to be renominated to

791
00:55:03,213 --> 00:55:06,573
Speaker 4: go back into Parliament and was and did not win.

792
00:55:08,373 --> 00:55:09,613
Speaker 3: Against someone who.

793
00:55:11,493 --> 00:55:17,053
Speaker 4: Was is unknown and considered by the Conservatives, I suppose,

794
00:55:17,333 --> 00:55:20,773
Speaker 4: and in fact many moderates to be nowhere new as

795
00:55:20,893 --> 00:55:27,493
Speaker 4: an effective representative for not only for the area but

796
00:55:27,693 --> 00:55:30,173
Speaker 4: just for the for the whole of the party going forward.

797
00:55:31,333 --> 00:55:34,893
Speaker 4: And of course this woman more redeeming is her name.

798
00:55:34,973 --> 00:55:38,973
Speaker 4: This woman is someone who a lot of One Nation

799
00:55:39,093 --> 00:55:43,413
Speaker 4: supporters would admire and like because she's she's been fighting

800
00:55:43,493 --> 00:55:48,693
Speaker 4: hard sort of grassroots conservative battles and so it's not

801
00:55:48,733 --> 00:55:55,213
Speaker 4: a great development for the for the Victorian division. It's

802
00:55:55,253 --> 00:55:57,973
Speaker 4: not surprising. It just seems to continue. They can seem

803
00:55:57,973 --> 00:56:00,413
Speaker 4: to keep shooting themselves in the foot and it's a

804
00:56:00,453 --> 00:56:02,733
Speaker 4: great It's just a shame and it very makes it

805
00:56:02,813 --> 00:56:08,293
Speaker 4: very difficult for our very capable new leader down there.

806
00:56:09,693 --> 00:56:13,253
Speaker 4: So look, I think there might be a resolution because

807
00:56:13,253 --> 00:56:18,413
Speaker 4: this fellow who was pre selected was immediately outed as

808
00:56:18,493 --> 00:56:23,013
Speaker 4: having given a reference for a pedofile and it has

809
00:56:23,053 --> 00:56:26,933
Speaker 4: now withdrawn, so I don't know where it's at, but

810
00:56:27,013 --> 00:56:34,813
Speaker 4: I'm hoping that this that Moira will be asked to

811
00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:40,173
Speaker 4: reconsider and suddenly be given pre selection so that she

812
00:56:40,253 --> 00:56:44,093
Speaker 4: can stay in the Parliament and this mad, absolutely crazy

813
00:56:44,173 --> 00:56:47,893
Speaker 4: episode in Victorian state politics for the Liberal Party can

814
00:56:48,013 --> 00:56:49,173
Speaker 4: finally be put to rest.

815
00:56:49,413 --> 00:56:51,853
Speaker 2: Well, there are articles today encouraging her to go to

816
00:56:51,893 --> 00:56:54,533
Speaker 2: one Nation, go straight to one nation there.

817
00:56:55,093 --> 00:56:58,533
Speaker 4: I hope that doesn't happen because she does have a

818
00:56:58,893 --> 00:57:00,733
Speaker 4: huge number of fans in the Liberal Party.

819
00:57:01,573 --> 00:57:06,253
Speaker 2: Well, I should also mention that there was some talk

820
00:57:07,293 --> 00:57:13,053
Speaker 2: of the party headquarters taking over the Victorian division. I

821
00:57:13,093 --> 00:57:15,613
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not asking for an opinion on it,

822
00:57:15,733 --> 00:57:20,293
Speaker 2: just that things were so bad that it needed some

823
00:57:20,933 --> 00:57:22,253
Speaker 2: upstairs control.

824
00:57:23,413 --> 00:57:27,173
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't know about that. I know I couldn't.

825
00:57:27,213 --> 00:57:30,413
Speaker 4: I can't help you with that. I mean, it's a

826
00:57:30,493 --> 00:57:34,413
Speaker 4: terrible situation. We've just had the Liberal Party in your

827
00:57:34,413 --> 00:57:38,573
Speaker 4: South Wales in administration where there's where there's been taken

828
00:57:38,613 --> 00:57:41,253
Speaker 4: over and it's about to go back to a newly

829
00:57:41,293 --> 00:57:47,413
Speaker 4: elected state executive to control with you know, with democratic accountability.

830
00:57:48,333 --> 00:57:51,453
Speaker 4: So hopefully some of the problems we've had there in

831
00:57:51,453 --> 00:57:53,453
Speaker 4: yourself wells will be resolved.

832
00:57:53,933 --> 00:57:56,173
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about a couple of other things,

833
00:57:56,413 --> 00:58:00,133
Speaker 2: just briefly AI. If I said to you that I

834
00:58:00,173 --> 00:58:06,013
Speaker 2: thought that AI was evil, would you laugh or agree?

835
00:58:07,333 --> 00:58:07,453
Speaker 1: Uh?

836
00:58:09,733 --> 00:58:10,013
Speaker 3: Neither.

837
00:58:12,413 --> 00:58:18,013
Speaker 4: I don't know where it's going, and I don't think

838
00:58:19,013 --> 00:58:23,533
Speaker 4: the experts know. I use AI for lots of things.

839
00:58:24,613 --> 00:58:28,653
Speaker 4: Whether you know how much to put in my as

840
00:58:28,733 --> 00:58:33,973
Speaker 4: yesterday I chat gpted how much chemical I should put

841
00:58:33,973 --> 00:58:38,053
Speaker 4: in my backpack when I was spraying some weeds in

842
00:58:38,093 --> 00:58:43,933
Speaker 4: the garden. I mean, it's unbelievably useful because it's intelligent.

843
00:58:43,973 --> 00:58:46,933
Speaker 4: It's not just a case of googling and sort of

844
00:58:47,053 --> 00:58:50,453
Speaker 4: searching through links to find information. I use it in

845
00:58:50,573 --> 00:58:56,453
Speaker 4: research for my writing. It saves me enormous amounts of time.

846
00:58:57,053 --> 00:59:00,693
Speaker 4: I have to fact check everything that it gives me

847
00:59:00,813 --> 00:59:05,893
Speaker 4: because I know that it hallucinates and makes mistakes, so

848
00:59:06,733 --> 00:59:07,813
Speaker 4: I'm very careful.

849
00:59:07,853 --> 00:59:08,613
Speaker 3: How are you it?

850
00:59:09,693 --> 00:59:15,813
Speaker 4: But it is a massive productivity enhancer for people like

851
00:59:15,973 --> 00:59:23,413
Speaker 4: me who are writing for professionals, who are loiling for consultants.

852
00:59:23,493 --> 00:59:25,333
Speaker 3: It's huge. It's huge.

853
00:59:25,413 --> 00:59:30,453
Speaker 4: Now there are massive implications there for the white collar classes,

854
00:59:30,493 --> 00:59:35,213
Speaker 4: because the white collar classes sort of used their minds

855
00:59:35,253 --> 00:59:40,613
Speaker 4: constantly every day, and AI is helping them to be

856
00:59:40,613 --> 00:59:45,413
Speaker 4: more productive. As I say, it can hallucinate, it can

857
00:59:45,453 --> 00:59:49,133
Speaker 4: go down a burrow, So it's not as effective for

858
00:59:49,173 --> 00:59:52,053
Speaker 4: someone who doesn't know what they're doing. So it's very

859
00:59:52,133 --> 00:59:55,213
Speaker 4: very good for experts because if you know how to

860
00:59:55,333 --> 01:00:00,053
Speaker 4: drive it and ask questions and interrogate it, it is

861
01:00:00,253 --> 01:00:04,653
Speaker 4: very very effective because it So there has to be

862
01:00:04,733 --> 01:00:07,853
Speaker 4: some good in that. But where it takes us as

863
01:00:07,853 --> 01:00:13,653
Speaker 4: a societ with already too many people I think with

864
01:00:13,853 --> 01:00:15,373
Speaker 4: university degrees.

865
01:00:17,253 --> 01:00:19,213
Speaker 2: And well unnecessary ones.

866
01:00:19,733 --> 01:00:24,333
Speaker 4: And yes, and then you know, the economic sort of

867
01:00:25,213 --> 01:00:30,373
Speaker 4: lag from the pandemic has still not played through, particularly

868
01:00:30,373 --> 01:00:33,453
Speaker 4: in Australia, and now we've got this energy crisis around

869
01:00:33,453 --> 01:00:36,493
Speaker 4: the world which is going to raise inflation again, and

870
01:00:36,533 --> 01:00:41,213
Speaker 4: so we you know, we are now facing more economic

871
01:00:41,653 --> 01:00:45,413
Speaker 4: hardship I think over the coming months, if not years,

872
01:00:45,493 --> 01:00:48,573
Speaker 4: And so you then think about the impact of AI

873
01:00:49,133 --> 01:00:55,853
Speaker 4: over that, particularly in the professions and the knowledge economy.

874
01:00:56,293 --> 01:00:57,453
Speaker 3: That could get very ugly.

875
01:00:58,413 --> 01:01:00,933
Speaker 4: So if you mean, if you think if you're talking

876
01:01:00,933 --> 01:01:04,813
Speaker 4: about that being evil, I think, well, yes, potentially evil.

877
01:01:04,933 --> 01:01:06,493
Speaker 3: But I'm not a.

878
01:01:06,453 --> 01:01:10,613
Speaker 4: Technologist technologist and I'm not an economist, so this is

879
01:01:10,653 --> 01:01:11,933
Speaker 4: not really my Baliwick.

880
01:01:13,413 --> 01:01:15,813
Speaker 2: No, but because so many people doing it, that's not

881
01:01:16,013 --> 01:01:18,053
Speaker 2: it's you can say that it's not their bally Wick

882
01:01:18,733 --> 01:01:22,293
Speaker 2: or or it is because because you're using it.

883
01:01:22,973 --> 01:01:26,893
Speaker 4: No, I'm just I'm just uncertain about where it plays out.

884
01:01:26,973 --> 01:01:30,013
Speaker 3: And I mean even the.

885
01:01:28,853 --> 01:01:31,453
Speaker 4: The people who are expressing views about this, you know,

886
01:01:31,493 --> 01:01:35,773
Speaker 4: whether they're academics or commentators, whether it's Elon Musk or

887
01:01:36,053 --> 01:01:39,413
Speaker 4: you know, people who really understand it better than any

888
01:01:39,453 --> 01:01:39,853
Speaker 4: of us.

889
01:01:41,773 --> 01:01:42,213
Speaker 3: I don't.

890
01:01:42,813 --> 01:01:48,373
Speaker 4: When you have these big technology leaps in, you know,

891
01:01:48,413 --> 01:01:52,213
Speaker 4: throughout all of history, it causes huge disruption. And so

892
01:01:52,253 --> 01:01:56,653
Speaker 4: when the disruption occurs, there are there are often big

893
01:01:56,693 --> 01:02:00,093
Speaker 4: segments in society who lose out and who become poor.

894
01:02:01,173 --> 01:02:07,373
Speaker 4: But the general consensus is that technology eventually increases productivity,

895
01:02:08,413 --> 01:02:13,653
Speaker 4: things level out. It causes disruption and cost and economic costs,

896
01:02:14,053 --> 01:02:17,813
Speaker 4: hardship for a while, but overall enhances.

897
01:02:19,293 --> 01:02:22,013
Speaker 3: Human experience and development and wealth.

898
01:02:22,733 --> 01:02:25,093
Speaker 4: Now some of the experts are saying at the moment

899
01:02:25,133 --> 01:02:28,093
Speaker 4: that this is the time when this won't happen because

900
01:02:28,093 --> 01:02:30,733
Speaker 4: it's just too enormous, and so we're going to end

901
01:02:30,813 --> 01:02:35,253
Speaker 4: up with a society and where we have just a

902
01:02:36,093 --> 01:02:39,813
Speaker 4: massive numbers of people who won't be employed. I hope

903
01:02:39,813 --> 01:02:44,093
Speaker 4: that's not the case, but I don't I don't feel

904
01:02:44,093 --> 01:02:47,733
Speaker 4: equipped to speculate on that.

905
01:02:48,133 --> 01:02:51,453
Speaker 2: I know somebody I'm very close to who uses it

906
01:02:51,613 --> 01:02:53,533
Speaker 2: all the time now for the same sort of things

907
01:02:53,333 --> 01:02:59,893
Speaker 2: that you do, and I've seen, I've seen more than

908
01:02:59,933 --> 01:03:06,773
Speaker 2: one misleading result. That's all. That's the that's the lengths

909
01:03:06,853 --> 01:03:10,773
Speaker 2: of my experience with it. Have a very good ex

910
01:03:10,813 --> 01:03:13,093
Speaker 2: workmate who I'm going to be seeing very shortly, not

911
01:03:13,253 --> 01:03:17,453
Speaker 2: today but soon, who is on top of it, and

912
01:03:17,493 --> 01:03:21,613
Speaker 2: it's now his game and I've got some questions for

913
01:03:21,693 --> 01:03:24,933
Speaker 2: him on this next next occasion. Let me make this

914
01:03:25,013 --> 01:03:29,373
Speaker 2: the last thing we touch on. The last question, the

915
01:03:29,413 --> 01:03:32,693
Speaker 2: Iran War. How do you feel about it? Can be

916
01:03:32,733 --> 01:03:35,293
Speaker 2: as brief brief as you like, but just how do

917
01:03:35,373 --> 01:03:36,293
Speaker 2: you feel about it?

918
01:03:37,373 --> 01:03:38,693
Speaker 3: When push comes to shove.

919
01:03:39,533 --> 01:03:41,973
Speaker 4: I hope America and Israel win, and I hope they

920
01:03:42,053 --> 01:03:48,173
Speaker 4: ring win quickly. I do think you can question whether

921
01:03:48,413 --> 01:03:53,133
Speaker 4: they knew precisely what they were getting in for, whether

922
01:03:53,173 --> 01:03:58,013
Speaker 4: there has been some miscalculation as to how difficult it

923
01:03:58,173 --> 01:04:02,453
Speaker 4: might have been. But I also say to those who

924
01:04:02,493 --> 01:04:07,693
Speaker 4: are critics of the US and Israel, well, all that

925
01:04:07,813 --> 01:04:14,133
Speaker 4: has done is exposed how advanced the Mathers are in

926
01:04:14,173 --> 01:04:19,973
Speaker 4: their desire to wreak havoc on the West. Because the

927
01:04:19,973 --> 01:04:25,733
Speaker 4: pushback that has occurred, the revelation that there are undersea

928
01:04:26,133 --> 01:04:31,693
Speaker 4: drones in the Hummus Straits, and the fact that there

929
01:04:31,773 --> 01:04:34,933
Speaker 4: is there seems to be so much determination from Iran

930
01:04:35,453 --> 01:04:38,613
Speaker 4: is terrifying. And so I think it has revealed, you know,

931
01:04:38,613 --> 01:04:42,213
Speaker 4: whether you think it was wise to do it at all,

932
01:04:42,333 --> 01:04:45,173
Speaker 4: or wise to do it when they did it, it

933
01:04:45,253 --> 01:04:49,613
Speaker 4: has revealed, I think, the threat to the West, and

934
01:04:50,133 --> 01:04:55,893
Speaker 4: therefore I think it is it was an inevitability anywhere,

935
01:04:57,293 --> 01:05:01,213
Speaker 4: and so we just have to hope that the good

936
01:05:01,253 --> 01:05:05,293
Speaker 4: guys prevail and succeed. Now I'm not quite sure what

937
01:05:05,333 --> 01:05:08,333
Speaker 4: the definition of success is. Again, not a national secuit

938
01:05:08,373 --> 01:05:12,253
Speaker 4: already expert, but I hope it finishes very quickly for

939
01:05:12,333 --> 01:05:14,653
Speaker 4: all of our sakes, because it's impacting all of us.

940
01:05:14,893 --> 01:05:16,453
Speaker 3: But I'm loath to.

941
01:05:18,213 --> 01:05:22,693
Speaker 4: Hile in on the Americans and the Israelis for taking

942
01:05:22,733 --> 01:05:23,973
Speaker 4: the decision that they did.

943
01:05:24,213 --> 01:05:25,573
Speaker 2: I think that's very very easy.

944
01:05:26,413 --> 01:05:32,853
Speaker 4: It's very easy for the commentators like us, without knowing

945
01:05:33,013 --> 01:05:36,213
Speaker 4: all the information that was before the people who took

946
01:05:36,253 --> 01:05:37,813
Speaker 4: these decisions, to criticize.

947
01:05:38,693 --> 01:05:41,893
Speaker 2: I think that that's a very good summation of things, Louise.

948
01:05:41,933 --> 01:05:44,413
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure, thank you. I can only say

949
01:05:44,413 --> 01:05:47,293
Speaker 2: that I think that there will be a considerable number

950
01:05:47,493 --> 01:05:51,293
Speaker 2: more New Zealanders paying attention to the next election in

951
01:05:51,333 --> 01:05:54,773
Speaker 2: Australia the lead up to it on two fronts, one

952
01:05:54,853 --> 01:05:59,173
Speaker 2: your domestic one and the other one your grandfather in law.

953
01:06:01,293 --> 01:06:02,693
Speaker 3: Well, there is a nice connection there.

954
01:06:04,333 --> 01:06:07,733
Speaker 4: Angus does feel a very special connection to New Zealand

955
01:06:07,893 --> 01:06:11,053
Speaker 4: because of that, and he loves we love New Zealand

956
01:06:11,053 --> 01:06:14,893
Speaker 4: as a country, and we've visited there a few times

957
01:06:14,893 --> 01:06:18,613
Speaker 4: of course, so there is you know, he almost feels

958
01:06:18,653 --> 01:06:22,413
Speaker 4: like a key week, all right. But yes, but yes,

959
01:06:22,493 --> 01:06:29,853
Speaker 4: the broader political scene here is incredibly interesting, likely to

960
01:06:29,933 --> 01:06:33,333
Speaker 4: stay so for some time, and just a reflection of

961
01:06:33,413 --> 01:06:36,813
Speaker 4: what is going on around the world. And for that reason,

962
01:06:36,853 --> 01:06:40,373
Speaker 4: I think, you know, we all have to accept it.

963
01:06:40,493 --> 01:06:42,853
Speaker 3: Whilst all politics is local, there's.

964
01:06:42,693 --> 01:06:44,733
Speaker 4: A lot of what is going on now that he's

965
01:06:45,493 --> 01:06:48,653
Speaker 4: very global and sort of structural if you like.

966
01:06:49,053 --> 01:06:52,413
Speaker 2: Indeed, all right, as I said, a pleasure, thank.

967
01:06:52,293 --> 01:06:54,893
Speaker 3: You, Thanks Layton. Great to talk to here.

968
01:06:54,893 --> 01:07:15,453
Speaker 2: Thanks Louise. On Podcast three twenty two Into the Ball room,

969
01:07:15,453 --> 01:07:19,413
Speaker 2: missus producer is ready in waiting. Hi Layton, are you well?

970
01:07:19,573 --> 01:07:20,373
Speaker 3: I'm great. Thanks.

971
01:07:21,773 --> 01:07:24,973
Speaker 2: I knew that before I asked, but I thought of polite,

972
01:07:25,333 --> 01:07:27,973
Speaker 2: so I invite you to go for it.

973
01:07:28,133 --> 01:07:29,653
Speaker 3: I shall start, Jin says.

974
01:07:29,773 --> 01:07:33,013
Speaker 5: Australian voters are obviously fed up with having to choose

975
01:07:33,053 --> 01:07:38,253
Speaker 5: between a militantly woke Labor Party and an impotently incompetent

976
01:07:38,333 --> 01:07:39,333
Speaker 5: Liberal opposition.

977
01:07:39,813 --> 01:07:40,933
Speaker 3: This can only be good for.

978
01:07:40,893 --> 01:07:44,293
Speaker 5: The One Nation Party, as demonstrated by the recent South

979
01:07:44,333 --> 01:07:49,813
Speaker 5: Australia elections. Pauline Hanson has been tirelessly fighting for Australians

980
01:07:49,853 --> 01:07:53,493
Speaker 5: for three decades. Her fires of conviction have never dimmed,

981
01:07:53,573 --> 01:07:57,613
Speaker 5: and her ability to stand out as spectacular in the

982
01:07:57,653 --> 01:08:02,533
Speaker 5: age of disillusionment season campaigners of third party parties can

983
01:08:02,613 --> 01:08:07,053
Speaker 5: really shine our own. Pauline Hanson is, of course, Winston Peters.

984
01:08:07,533 --> 01:08:11,453
Speaker 5: Barry Sober described to Winston as a campaigner extraordinaire in

985
01:08:11,493 --> 01:08:14,293
Speaker 5: his recent interview with Heather and You've got to hand

986
01:08:14,333 --> 01:08:16,773
Speaker 5: it to Winston. He is adept at listening out for

987
01:08:16,853 --> 01:08:20,813
Speaker 5: the rising tides of sentiment and expertly rides the sentimental

988
01:08:20,853 --> 01:08:24,893
Speaker 5: waves like a political surfer. I certainly cheered when he

989
01:08:24,933 --> 01:08:29,373
Speaker 5: permanently ruled out working with Chris Hipkins, rejected the legally

990
01:08:29,413 --> 01:08:34,613
Speaker 5: binding WHO international health regulation and appointed the well respected

991
01:08:34,733 --> 01:08:39,573
Speaker 5: Alfred Naro into New Zealand first. However, if Winston wants

992
01:08:39,613 --> 01:08:42,253
Speaker 5: to garner more votes, he needs to be much more

993
01:08:42,293 --> 01:08:46,893
Speaker 5: transparent about his choice of political bedfellows early in the

994
01:08:46,933 --> 01:08:50,453
Speaker 5: election cycle in order to ensure us he will never

995
01:08:50,573 --> 01:08:53,253
Speaker 5: empower another just cinder a durn.

996
01:08:53,133 --> 01:08:57,493
Speaker 2: Again indeed and very well framed. I thought. The other

997
01:08:57,533 --> 01:09:00,133
Speaker 2: thing he has to do is, well, anybody has to

998
01:09:00,173 --> 01:09:03,853
Speaker 2: do if they want my vote, is to dump on

999
01:09:04,133 --> 01:09:07,293
Speaker 2: net to zero. And there's more on that before the

1000
01:09:07,373 --> 01:09:11,013
Speaker 2: end of the podcast. The Paul rights, so glad you

1001
01:09:11,133 --> 01:09:14,333
Speaker 2: raised the UN's assault on our personal health sovereignty. It's

1002
01:09:14,413 --> 01:09:18,453
Speaker 2: so good we rejected the who's proposals. I'll chew it

1003
01:09:18,493 --> 01:09:21,333
Speaker 2: to that. It's rare to get a win pushing back

1004
01:09:21,373 --> 01:09:25,133
Speaker 2: against this multi headed leviathan. It would have been it

1005
01:09:25,173 --> 01:09:28,093
Speaker 2: would have been great to go further and note the

1006
01:09:28,293 --> 01:09:33,053
Speaker 2: UN wanted to link their overriding of national sovereignty by

1007
01:09:33,093 --> 01:09:38,213
Speaker 2: the WHO with their push for global digital id so

1008
01:09:38,493 --> 01:09:42,533
Speaker 2: overriding individual sovereignty as well in partnership with their buddies

1009
01:09:42,573 --> 01:09:45,573
Speaker 2: at the WAF, of course, and this is where we

1010
01:09:46,213 --> 01:09:48,973
Speaker 2: need to realize the UN is just a vehicle to

1011
01:09:49,053 --> 01:09:55,053
Speaker 2: promote global left wing ideology and authoritarianism. Recall the quote

1012
01:09:55,373 --> 01:10:00,573
Speaker 2: O'Sullivan's first law, all organizations that are not expressly right

1013
01:10:00,613 --> 01:10:04,533
Speaker 2: wing will over time become left wing. For decades, these

1014
01:10:04,533 --> 01:10:10,253
Speaker 2: collectivists have worked to korl, disarm, and disenfranchise particularly Western citizens.

1015
01:10:10,773 --> 01:10:15,733
Speaker 2: Under their preferred left leaning government partners, they literally set

1016
01:10:15,773 --> 01:10:20,173
Speaker 2: an agenda that nearly all governments now slavishly follow, regardless

1017
01:10:20,173 --> 01:10:23,853
Speaker 2: of being colored red or blue, or what the public

1018
01:10:23,933 --> 01:10:28,853
Speaker 2: actually voted for. Anyone remember voting for the sustainability goals

1019
01:10:29,093 --> 01:10:31,933
Speaker 2: that force you out of your car through climate taxes,

1020
01:10:32,373 --> 01:10:35,973
Speaker 2: force councils to spend millions on cycle ways, the anti

1021
01:10:36,213 --> 01:10:41,573
Speaker 2: meat narrative, the migration compacts, and indigenous rights. They have

1022
01:10:41,693 --> 01:10:44,013
Speaker 2: the nerve to tell us how to run New Zealand

1023
01:10:44,413 --> 01:10:47,973
Speaker 2: when they clearly don't even know what indigenous means. Then

1024
01:10:48,093 --> 01:10:53,613
Speaker 2: they support and protect terrible regimes under their fictitious international

1025
01:10:53,693 --> 01:10:57,533
Speaker 2: law quote unquote, promote abuse of governments to their Human

1026
01:10:57,653 --> 01:11:03,413
Speaker 2: Rights Council and invite failed energy experts like I don't

1027
01:11:03,453 --> 01:11:09,453
Speaker 2: want to say it, and invite failed energy experts like

1028
01:11:10,613 --> 01:11:15,053
Speaker 2: jasindradn to speak and tell the world freedom of speech

1029
01:11:15,253 --> 01:11:17,773
Speaker 2: is a weapon of war. Now they're trying a new

1030
01:11:17,933 --> 01:11:24,333
Speaker 2: grift reparations for slavery, but only the Western linked Transatlantic slavery,

1031
01:11:24,373 --> 01:11:31,933
Speaker 2: of course, not the Arab Subharan or slav or Barbary, Indian, Chinese, Turkish,

1032
01:11:32,013 --> 01:11:36,413
Speaker 2: Mongol or those indigenous people's slave trades. It was hard

1033
01:11:36,453 --> 01:11:38,813
Speaker 2: to get through, but it was worthy because it's correct.

1034
01:11:38,973 --> 01:11:43,013
Speaker 2: It's time for UN exit. But in true globalist uni

1035
01:11:43,053 --> 01:11:47,453
Speaker 2: party fashion, no mainstream party will ever put there that referendum.

1036
01:11:47,773 --> 01:11:52,213
Speaker 2: To the people, cheers Paul, Well, Paul, Mostly you're right

1037
01:11:52,493 --> 01:11:55,173
Speaker 2: and I accept what you say.

1038
01:11:55,693 --> 01:12:00,213
Speaker 5: Layton Gary says after listening to the episode with Patrick Basham,

1039
01:12:00,333 --> 01:12:03,853
Speaker 5: can I conclude that he believes the US invading around

1040
01:12:03,893 --> 01:12:07,013
Speaker 5: would be a mistake and that the US or should

1041
01:12:07,053 --> 01:12:10,253
Speaker 5: I say, the Republicans would lose the war and the

1042
01:12:10,253 --> 01:12:14,453
Speaker 5: midterm election. He seems to be ignoring one major factor

1043
01:12:14,613 --> 01:12:18,693
Speaker 5: which you already brought up to Patrick, whether Iran may

1044
01:12:18,973 --> 01:12:22,693
Speaker 5: or already does have a nuclear missile. If they do,

1045
01:12:22,853 --> 01:12:26,373
Speaker 5: Israel would be wiped out and millions could die. How

1046
01:12:26,373 --> 01:12:29,733
Speaker 5: do they justify that point? And if the US doesn't

1047
01:12:29,773 --> 01:12:32,693
Speaker 5: act now, how would they respond if Iran launches a

1048
01:12:32,733 --> 01:12:36,853
Speaker 5: strike at that time? One important thing after your interview

1049
01:12:36,933 --> 01:12:40,533
Speaker 5: is that over the weekend, Iran fired two mid range

1050
01:12:40,573 --> 01:12:44,413
Speaker 5: missiles at the Diego Garcia military base. I wonder if

1051
01:12:44,413 --> 01:12:47,693
Speaker 5: his view will change because of that. Love to listen

1052
01:12:47,733 --> 01:12:50,133
Speaker 5: to your podcast. Keep up the good work. And that's

1053
01:12:50,133 --> 01:12:50,693
Speaker 5: from Gary.

1054
01:12:50,893 --> 01:12:53,773
Speaker 2: Thank you Gary. I've read that somewhere else, actually on

1055
01:12:54,173 --> 01:12:57,253
Speaker 2: some other part of a podcast, this one or the

1056
01:12:57,293 --> 01:13:00,893
Speaker 2: other one I can't recall now. Missus producer read an

1057
01:13:00,973 --> 01:13:04,653
Speaker 2: email from Jin a little earlier, and I have one

1058
01:13:04,733 --> 01:13:08,573
Speaker 2: to conclude with reason being that the one that she

1059
01:13:08,693 --> 01:13:12,053
Speaker 2: read was from last week, but we missed it. I

1060
01:13:12,093 --> 01:13:16,093
Speaker 2: overpassed it somehow and wondered where Jin was. He is

1061
01:13:16,133 --> 01:13:19,853
Speaker 2: the most regular of all writers, even though we've got

1062
01:13:19,853 --> 01:13:23,573
Speaker 2: some very regular writers. He never misses a week unless

1063
01:13:23,573 --> 01:13:26,773
Speaker 2: he apologizes, usually in advance. But it was our fault

1064
01:13:26,813 --> 01:13:32,773
Speaker 2: that we missed it last week. So realism must be

1065
01:13:32,853 --> 01:13:36,933
Speaker 2: tempered by idealism in order to retain the confidence and

1066
01:13:37,013 --> 01:13:40,893
Speaker 2: faith of the people quote unquote, And just like that,

1067
01:13:41,053 --> 01:13:46,453
Speaker 2: Ramesh the Kher seared his indelible quote deep into the

1068
01:13:46,493 --> 01:13:51,573
Speaker 2: recesses of my psyche what a profound statement. Indeed, realism

1069
01:13:51,653 --> 01:13:56,733
Speaker 2: breeds confidence and idealism breeds faith, but you need both

1070
01:13:57,013 --> 01:14:02,013
Speaker 2: because realism without idealism is just slog without purpose, and

1071
01:14:02,093 --> 01:14:08,333
Speaker 2: idealism without realism is just well leftism or progressivism. Jurastone,

1072
01:14:08,453 --> 01:14:13,013
Speaker 2: the Australian economics writer, pointed this out in her Beautiful

1073
01:14:13,053 --> 01:14:19,213
Speaker 2: Spectator article titled move Over Saint Jacinda, where she said

1074
01:14:19,253 --> 01:14:23,813
Speaker 2: that the progressive mob keeps canonizing new saints of their

1075
01:14:23,933 --> 01:14:30,493
Speaker 2: kind because adherence to left wing shibalus requires faith, unquestioning faith.

1076
01:14:32,253 --> 01:14:36,973
Speaker 2: Saint Jasinda Adern has apparently been replaced by Saint Mark Carney,

1077
01:14:37,493 --> 01:14:41,773
Speaker 2: the idiot who just got Bill C nine, also known

1078
01:14:41,853 --> 01:14:46,053
Speaker 2: as the Combating Hate Act passed in the House of Commons.

1079
01:14:46,413 --> 01:14:49,773
Speaker 2: It's effectively a hate speech law that could see preachers

1080
01:14:49,813 --> 01:14:54,133
Speaker 2: in Canada thrown in jail for preaching specific passages of

1081
01:14:54,173 --> 01:14:59,093
Speaker 2: the Bible. Mark Carney ain't no saint, He's an Antichrist. Doctor,

1082
01:14:59,133 --> 01:15:03,133
Speaker 2: Jordan Peterson, You're needed in the world again. God rescue

1083
01:15:03,173 --> 01:15:06,493
Speaker 2: us from these progressive anti saints. And yes, God defend

1084
01:15:06,533 --> 01:15:10,773
Speaker 2: New Zealand disselection she is Jim Leighton.

1085
01:15:11,333 --> 01:15:14,133
Speaker 5: Chris says, I heard your comment re some people thought

1086
01:15:14,253 --> 01:15:17,253
Speaker 5: World War three had broken out on Podcast three twenty

1087
01:15:17,973 --> 01:15:21,053
Speaker 5: with Patrick. I never thought that was the case. I

1088
01:15:21,093 --> 01:15:24,213
Speaker 5: thought you were both civil and respectful of each other. However,

1089
01:15:24,253 --> 01:15:26,413
Speaker 5: I did think that Patrick seemed to be on edge

1090
01:15:26,413 --> 01:15:30,693
Speaker 5: and less composed, less composed than usual as usual. I

1091
01:15:30,773 --> 01:15:33,493
Speaker 5: liked your interview with Rummish the ker and Podcast three

1092
01:15:33,613 --> 01:15:35,773
Speaker 5: to one, and that's from Chris.

1093
01:15:35,773 --> 01:15:40,493
Speaker 2: Everybody says that Chris, and they like, they like people

1094
01:15:40,613 --> 01:15:43,693
Speaker 2: like Rummish. Actually people like a lot of the people

1095
01:15:43,733 --> 01:15:47,213
Speaker 2: I interview. But specifically I say that because only somebody

1096
01:15:47,533 --> 01:15:51,253
Speaker 2: just yesterday evening said said it to me, missus producer,

1097
01:15:51,253 --> 01:15:53,733
Speaker 2: thank you. We'll see you, Thank you Layton next week

1098
01:15:54,493 --> 01:16:07,493
Speaker 2: without struggle. Now to take us out for three hundred

1099
01:16:07,493 --> 01:16:09,333
Speaker 2: and twenty two, I want to drop in a couple

1100
01:16:09,493 --> 01:16:14,413
Speaker 2: of references to climate matters that help straighten things out.

1101
01:16:14,573 --> 01:16:16,653
Speaker 2: In fact, they've got more than a couple, but are

1102
01:16:16,693 --> 01:16:20,093
Speaker 2: restricted to that. Let me start with the Victor Davis Hanson,

1103
01:16:20,133 --> 01:16:24,653
Speaker 2: who's not a scientist, he's a historian, proclaims the end

1104
01:16:24,813 --> 01:16:30,533
Speaker 2: of climate change. Quote end of climate change. By the way,

1105
01:16:31,253 --> 01:16:35,333
Speaker 2: anything that Victor Davis Hanson says or writes or claims

1106
01:16:36,013 --> 01:16:40,973
Speaker 2: is well worthy of inspection. Decades of consensus around so

1107
01:16:41,053 --> 01:16:46,093
Speaker 2: called climate catastrophe are now running into new economic, technological,

1108
01:16:46,373 --> 01:16:52,093
Speaker 2: and geopolitical realities. Mix in AI and the unprecedented demand

1109
01:16:52,133 --> 01:16:56,133
Speaker 2: for large scale electricity generation. Mix in AI and the

1110
01:16:56,213 --> 01:17:00,453
Speaker 2: unprecedented demand for large scale electricity generation, and we have

1111
01:17:00,493 --> 01:17:04,453
Speaker 2: a global climate conversation that demands to be reckoned with.

1112
01:17:05,213 --> 01:17:09,213
Speaker 2: Victor Davis Hanson breaks down how the foundations decades of

1113
01:17:09,573 --> 01:17:14,493
Speaker 2: green orthodoxy are shifting the people quote. The people who

1114
01:17:14,533 --> 01:17:19,773
Speaker 2: have been avatars for climate change never suffer the consequences

1115
01:17:19,893 --> 01:17:23,893
Speaker 2: of their own ideology. Barack Obama said the planet would

1116
01:17:23,893 --> 01:17:28,733
Speaker 2: be inundated pretty soon if we didn't address global climate change.

1117
01:17:29,493 --> 01:17:33,373
Speaker 2: Why would he then buy a seaside estate Marty's Vineyard

1118
01:17:34,133 --> 01:17:36,733
Speaker 2: or one on the beach at Hawaii if he really

1119
01:17:36,813 --> 01:17:39,653
Speaker 2: did believe that the oceans would rise and flood his

1120
01:17:39,773 --> 01:17:45,493
Speaker 2: multimillion dollar investment quote. The inconsistency of the global warming narrative,

1121
01:17:46,133 --> 01:17:49,373
Speaker 2: the self interest in the people who promote it, and

1122
01:17:49,413 --> 01:17:54,573
Speaker 2: the logic that they have not presented empirically the evidence

1123
01:17:54,653 --> 01:17:58,133
Speaker 2: that would convince us that we have to radically transform

1124
01:17:58,173 --> 01:18:00,933
Speaker 2: our economies on the wishes of a few elites that

1125
01:18:01,133 --> 01:18:03,653
Speaker 2: do not have the evidence, but do have a lot

1126
01:18:03,693 --> 01:18:05,613
Speaker 2: of hypocrisy in the process.

1127
01:18:05,933 --> 01:18:05,973
Speaker 3: No.

1128
01:18:06,253 --> 01:18:12,413
Speaker 2: Number two new book relatively called Sunset on net zero

1129
01:18:13,293 --> 01:18:16,893
Speaker 2: describes in detail while why net zero CO two is

1130
01:18:17,013 --> 01:18:22,893
Speaker 2: pointless and unachievable, It explains in understandable terms the up

1131
01:18:22,893 --> 01:18:29,853
Speaker 2: to date thoughts of the greatest minds of today in physics, meteorology, economics, engineering,

1132
01:18:30,213 --> 01:18:36,373
Speaker 2: and the geosciences. Net zero CO two is pointless because

1133
01:18:36,653 --> 01:18:40,653
Speaker 2: we have now confirmed by satellites that ninety percent of

1134
01:18:40,693 --> 01:18:43,853
Speaker 2: CO two warming has already happened. CO two is not

1135
01:18:44,053 --> 01:18:49,053
Speaker 2: an existential threat, but clouds, El Nino and human habitation

1136
01:18:49,573 --> 01:18:53,373
Speaker 2: are significant drivers of global warming that are often ignored.

1137
01:18:54,813 --> 01:19:00,053
Speaker 2: Net zero CO two is unachievable because the green technology

1138
01:19:00,613 --> 01:19:05,173
Speaker 2: alternatives are unreliable and unaffordable. Aren't we all learning that?

1139
01:19:05,453 --> 01:19:08,653
Speaker 2: Shouldn't we have learned by now, if not personally, then

1140
01:19:08,693 --> 01:19:12,213
Speaker 2: by what we see and know on a daily basis.

1141
01:19:12,213 --> 01:19:16,573
Speaker 2: Almost wind and solar power triple electricity costs. Building fully

1142
01:19:16,613 --> 01:19:19,853
Speaker 2: electric vehicles produces at least one half of CO two

1143
01:19:19,893 --> 01:19:23,453
Speaker 2: emissions that they are meant to avoid, and heat pumps

1144
01:19:23,493 --> 01:19:27,453
Speaker 2: will leave you dangerously cold in the winter. Green hydrogen

1145
01:19:28,333 --> 01:19:32,813
Speaker 2: air capture CO two and carbon capture and storage are

1146
01:19:32,813 --> 01:19:38,453
Speaker 2: prescriptions for national bankruptcy. The supply of key metals and

1147
01:19:38,533 --> 01:19:42,213
Speaker 2: minerals required to achieve net zero need to be at

1148
01:19:42,253 --> 01:19:46,013
Speaker 2: least doubled, some much more, and are often controlled by

1149
01:19:46,373 --> 01:19:50,253
Speaker 2: a very few. Net zero comes with huge environmental and

1150
01:19:50,373 --> 01:19:55,293
Speaker 2: agricultural costs. And concluding, we have been through similar climatic

1151
01:19:55,333 --> 01:19:59,373
Speaker 2: temperature changes before, more recently than you think, our efforts

1152
01:19:59,413 --> 01:20:05,613
Speaker 2: to control it are futile. Would you like the last one?

1153
01:20:05,813 --> 01:20:10,253
Speaker 2: Why climate science is not settled? The repeated claim that

1154
01:20:10,253 --> 01:20:16,333
Speaker 2: climate sciences settled overlooks myriad uncertainties, competing mechanisms and computer

1155
01:20:16,413 --> 01:20:20,613
Speaker 2: models that missed the mark when tested against reality. Declaring

1156
01:20:20,653 --> 01:20:25,253
Speaker 2: finality in such a field reflects political confidence, even arrogance,

1157
01:20:26,093 --> 01:20:30,693
Speaker 2: not scientific maturity. Computer models based on faulty premises are

1158
01:20:30,733 --> 01:20:34,773
Speaker 2: the bible for the modern climate movement. This despite the

1159
01:20:34,933 --> 01:20:39,213
Speaker 2: United Nations in a Governmental Panel on Climate change describing

1160
01:20:39,293 --> 01:20:45,973
Speaker 2: climate as a coupled nonlinear chaotic system. A coupled nonlinear

1161
01:20:46,493 --> 01:20:52,893
Speaker 2: chaotic system where long term prediction is effectively impossible. Policies

1162
01:20:52,933 --> 01:20:56,453
Speaker 2: costing trillions of dollars rely entirely on outputs of these

1163
01:20:56,493 --> 01:21:00,573
Speaker 2: digital simulations, But a model is only as good as

1164
01:21:00,693 --> 01:21:04,733
Speaker 2: its assumptions. When those assumptions this is the final, when

1165
01:21:04,773 --> 01:21:08,093
Speaker 2: those assumptions fail to match the physical world and on

1166
01:21:08,133 --> 01:21:14,613
Speaker 2: a scientists discards the model. The climate establishment instead discards

1167
01:21:14,773 --> 01:21:18,973
Speaker 2: the data. Lis more, but you'll find it under why

1168
01:21:18,973 --> 01:21:23,533
Speaker 2: climate science is not settled on the site of Climate

1169
01:21:23,613 --> 01:21:26,813
Speaker 2: Change Dispatch. That is enough to take us out for

1170
01:21:27,173 --> 01:21:30,373
Speaker 2: podcast number three, double two. Don't forget to drop us

1171
01:21:30,413 --> 01:21:34,413
Speaker 2: a note, write to us anytime latent Deus talksb dot

1172
01:21:34,413 --> 01:21:37,813
Speaker 2: co dot nz caroln also at newstalksb dot co dot

1173
01:21:37,893 --> 01:21:42,253
Speaker 2: NZED leave out the also right ah and we love

1174
01:21:42,293 --> 01:21:45,973
Speaker 2: hearing from you, so as always to conclude, let me

1175
01:21:46,013 --> 01:21:50,253
Speaker 2: say thank you for listening and we'll talk very soon.

1176
01:21:58,053 --> 01:22:02,013
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks B. Listen live

1177
01:22:02,213 --> 01:22:04,933
Speaker 1: on air or online, and keep our shows with you

1178
01:22:04,973 --> 01:22:08,413
Speaker 1: wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio O