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Speaker 1: Uh, Kerry MkIV. Tim Wilson with us. Hello, are you too?

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Speaker 2: How's it going? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Have you you changed your surname again?

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Speaker 2: Is it.

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Speaker 1: Kerry? Which buttony pressing? Press the other button? Not other button?

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Speaker 2: Mate?

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Speaker 1: Is that button even working?

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Speaker 2: Oh? No? You got what's going on? Oh? My god? Carry? Carry? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Tell us how to do this.

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Speaker 1: We literally have to have a man come into the studio. Okay, Sam,

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Speaker 1: pull out the microphone of the No, no, pull out

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Speaker 1: the microphone of the site. Yep, and pop the microphone

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Speaker 1: in that one. And then if you turn that one on,

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Speaker 1: then you're going to be able to hear carry. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how's that? Carey?

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Speaker 3: There we go?

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Speaker 4: How's that?

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Speaker 3: Here we go?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what was worse, Tim, what was worse?

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Speaker 1: Was it the musical? Carry?

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Speaker 3: It's hardly my fault.

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Speaker 2: It's not Cary's fault. Don't blame carry.

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Speaker 3: No, No, it's to me and you.

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Speaker 4: You you started it with the Maciva would have? And

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Speaker 4: I know you've got a thing about women taking other people?

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Speaker 1: Do you know what, Cary? You have changed your surname

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Speaker 1: so many times. I can't remember which one you were

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Speaker 1: born with. I've changed it to wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: It's only one at a time.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 3: Three added on to my first name.

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Speaker 1: That's true. You've got a very serious face. So I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've gone somewhere I shouldn't have.

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Speaker 4: Was that a Nicola willis kind of a I'm so sorry? Okay,

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Speaker 4: it's quite effective that face, isn't Yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Felt like I felt like one of your grandchildren being admonishious.

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Speaker 3: Then my grandchildren don't need to be admonished.

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Speaker 1: To save me, Please save me by literally anything else.

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Speaker 4: Granddaughter to the principles of ward yesterday at school for

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Speaker 4: a zest for life that she brings to school, incredible

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Speaker 4: kindness and an absolute delight to be around, always so

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Speaker 4: much fun.

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Speaker 3: Who does that sound like?

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Speaker 1: Just sinda, No, that's not the answer you're looking for.

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Speaker 3: No, it was a rhetorical question.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that. Once again, I find myself in trouble.

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Speaker 2: Do you think to talk about the New Zealand safety video?

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Speaker 2: Heither can I save you? Can I possibly say you?

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Speaker 2: I think you're old to something. You're absolutely on to something.

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Speaker 2: It's a waste of three and a half minutes. It's

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Speaker 2: really easy. The exits are over there. Take the oxygen

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Speaker 2: mask first, and then give it to your kids and

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Speaker 2: if the plane goes down, start praying. All right, let's take.

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Speaker 1: Off and start praying in the kind of like knees

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Speaker 1: on chest position. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, No, I think you're

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. Actually, I mean, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be mean.

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Speaker 4: Kerry to eat New Zealand and often it.

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Speaker 2: Is business model is However, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Want to be mean on this because I know they're trying,

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Speaker 1: like they're really trying.

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Speaker 4: It's like one of those jokes that you're going to

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Speaker 4: hear over Christmas from the uncle who was told once

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Speaker 4: it was funny back in nineteen seventy eight and tells

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Speaker 4: it every year and it's like, hey, hey, I don't

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Speaker 4: do this one, and it's like, yeah, you have yeah,

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Speaker 4: and we've all heard it and it's not.

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Speaker 1: The end of a longer every year as well exactly.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when it.

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Speaker 2: First came as a man as a man, I reject

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Speaker 2: the premise of that assertion. That's so unkind. Why is

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Speaker 2: it uncles? Why would it not be aunties as well?

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Speaker 3: We have time.

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Speaker 4: There'll be an Auntie crack somewhere along this morning. But

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Speaker 4: it was vaguely amusing as a as a rob five

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Speaker 4: vanity piece when it first came out, and now yeah,

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Speaker 4: not so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that.

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Speaker 3: I'm done.

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Speaker 1: Now, give me a bit of perspective on this tip,

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Speaker 1: because I do consider you like a relatively normal person.

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Speaker 1: You live in Auckland, not and Wellington, You've got kids,

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Speaker 1: You're doing a proper, proper day's work. Are you even

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Speaker 1: in the slightest interest, because I am. Are you even

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Speaker 1: in the slightest interested in the lady fight that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen in Parliament next week?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am, because I'm a political tragic as well.

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Speaker 2: And you know what's what's politics? It's sport for unhealthy people,

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Speaker 2: and that's I'm fascinated by it. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: I actually want to ask, now, though, will you confirm

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Speaker 2: or deny that you will moderate this debate?

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Speaker 3: Here?

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Speaker 2: The duple c allen on the record.

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Speaker 1: I can't. I will deny that I am going to

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Speaker 1: moderate this debate because I think that I heard that

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Speaker 1: Carrie's going to do it.

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Speaker 4: I am not remotely interested.

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Speaker 2: To me, it looks like, well, you'll be perfect.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what it looks like?

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Speaker 4: I know that you guys, and I get that kind

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Speaker 4: of theoretical. Gosh, wouldn't it be amazing watching Ruth Richardson

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Speaker 4: and Blast from the Past. It looks like the two

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Speaker 4: middle aged men.

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Speaker 3: Going how many precepts can you do? I can bang

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Speaker 3: out fifty?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I can do sixty, or those tragic men in

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Speaker 4: their cycle gear talking about their their race that morning

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Speaker 4: over coffee at the trendy cafe. It's embarrassing. It's just embarrassing.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to see it, and it's.

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Speaker 1: Irrelevant even if even is it though yes it is.

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Speaker 1: Why is it irrelevant?

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Speaker 4: Because the details that the country that Ruth Richardson was

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Speaker 4: dealing with at the time was vastly different to the

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Speaker 4: circumstances that Nicholas it is comparing apples and pears. They

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Speaker 4: are both interesting finance ministers. They both came out after

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Speaker 4: interesting times in New Zealand political and economic history. They

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Speaker 4: are standalone pieces of history. They should not be debasing

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Speaker 4: themselves and the position that they hold and held by

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Speaker 4: doing this farcical exersise.

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Speaker 1: So I should cancel your subscription to the Taxpayers Union

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Speaker 1: that I took out.

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Speaker 4: I haven't even I've suddenly realized what that box is

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Speaker 4: in my locker I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't realize that.

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Speaker 1: Now you're going to get into it.

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Speaker 2: Now, I think, Kerry, this is why you should you

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Speaker 2: should moderate the debate, because you're absolutely right it is.

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Speaker 2: It's first first past the post environment versus an MMP environment,

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Speaker 2: two very very different things.

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Speaker 1: And actually maybe Kerry should moderate the debate because you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely no tolerance for the nonsense that might happen. Kerry,

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Speaker 1: are you getting texts from Nick from Wellington? Nick Mills?

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Speaker 1: That's Nick Mills, the hoasts the show and Wellington. He's

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Speaker 1: wanting to know. And you need to leave men out

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Speaker 1: of this. This is I didn't think about it like

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Speaker 1: men doing press us.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah I did too, So I did too.

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Speaker 1: Now what do you reckons? The quote of the year atam.

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Speaker 2: Oh for me, it's Dame Noline Torrua and the quote

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Speaker 2: is I have been able to put my truth out there.

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Speaker 2: I am in my conscious space. Close quote. It sounded

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Speaker 2: like she was sitting in front of a Stalinist show

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Speaker 2: trial in the nineteen thirties offering the statement of the accused,

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Speaker 2: and it should have showed the apex of intellectual and

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Speaker 2: psychological relativism. There's no truth, there's only objective truth. This

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Speaker 2: is how I feel. Oh, dear Carrie, Well, it's quite true.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think that's brilliant. It reminds me of

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Speaker 4: that cost to speak when he came on when he

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Speaker 4: was first police commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Halfway through in an.

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Speaker 4: Ad break, I said, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: I have no idea what.

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Speaker 1: You're saying in person to him. Yeah, you turned the

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Speaker 1: mic off and then you said to him, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because he said something about increasing personnel client interaction

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Speaker 4: at a at A at a fundamental level or something.

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Speaker 4: And I say, do you mean cops on the beat

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Speaker 4: after a couple of goes, and you mean, oh, yes,

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Speaker 4: I suppose.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't say it.

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Speaker 4: He said, oh, they said, I've been very well trained.

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Speaker 1: No, bless, bless, bless you.

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Speaker 4: Dodge is, Oh no.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna, We're gonna. But there's goin. I reckon, there's

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Speaker 2: going to be more of this with the AI slot,

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Speaker 2: with the now. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's we have to

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Speaker 2: we have to fight. It's simple.

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Speaker 1: Pro AI is only going to sound like that if

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Speaker 1: we only feeded Andrew Costa's speeches, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: if we give it some normal people language. It all

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Speaker 1: come out sounding like a normal person, won't it. How

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Speaker 1: do you feel about the AI by the way.

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Speaker 2: Look, I actually you have to. Actually it's the way.

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Speaker 2: It's what you tell. You tell it what to do.

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Speaker 2: And I often one of the best or as a reflector.

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Speaker 2: I think you sound a lot like chet GPT. Don't

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Speaker 2: sound like chat GPT. No stop sounding like chat GPT,

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Speaker 2: because I think the reason that we're sort of policing,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, the speech is because bad language equals

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Speaker 2: bad thought. So if you can get the language simple,

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Speaker 2: the thought becomes a lot more clean as well.

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Speaker 1: I try to use it this week, Carrie, and because

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Speaker 1: I'd read that that what people are using it for

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Speaker 1: is to as like a shop shopping assistant. And if

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Speaker 1: you tell us to find you a thing and make

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Speaker 1: sure that it is in this correct size and this

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Speaker 1: correct color and this price point, and then it will

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Speaker 1: be delivered to your house by that date, it will

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Speaker 1: do all the hard work for you. First product is

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Speaker 1: sent to me. I wanted it before Christmas was going

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Speaker 1: to arrive on New Year's Day, not I wantul not.

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Speaker 1: And then the second product I wanted in large second

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Speaker 1: product they gave me it at every size except for large.

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Speaker 1: So I'm starting to me something large for.

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Speaker 2: The debate's brother is not going to be did you

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Speaker 2: get it?

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Speaker 1: And then on top of that, it ruined surprise and

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Speaker 1: now he knows what.

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Speaker 4: I have spoken to people involved in AI who are

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Speaker 4: working with AI, and I am invigorated by their excitement

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Speaker 4: and enthusiasm and the endless good potential because we're hearing

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Speaker 4: a lot of negative narrative around Yeah, totally, and that

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Speaker 4: would have been the same back the Lotites talking about

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Speaker 4: the weaving machines coming in, and you know, there is

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Speaker 4: always going to be good and bad. But I haven't

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Speaker 4: heard a lot about the good side until I started

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Speaker 4: speaking to these people who are at the cutting edge,

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Speaker 4: who believe it's going to make a huge difference in

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Speaker 4: terms of medical research, in terms of helping kids with

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Speaker 4: learning difficulties, in terms of being able to you know,

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Speaker 4: when you think about the people who are incredibly intelligent,

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Speaker 4: have a lot to offer, move to another country and

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Speaker 4: end up doing entry level jobs and hope that their kids,

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Speaker 4: you know, read the rewards of this new country. It's

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Speaker 4: going to level the playing field so that their intelligence,

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Speaker 4: their their knowledge, their wisdom will come out in the

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Speaker 4: first generation.

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Speaker 3: Not the second.

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Speaker 1: Use it very much.

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Speaker 3: Carry sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever used it for for doing the cooking?

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Speaker 3: No? Not you go. But also I've tried.

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Speaker 4: I've tried to get it to write a couple of

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Speaker 4: columns for me to see how he has and God knows,

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Speaker 4: I've written enough over the years that it should.

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Speaker 1: And do you say, write a column in the style

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Speaker 1: of Carrie Yeah Woodham. Yes there were columns under as well.

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Speaker 1: You have to Carrie Woodham slash Kerry Kaiva, the artist

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Speaker 1: formerly known as Yeah it was.

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Speaker 4: Uh, it's still not good, and I mean, eventually there'll

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Speaker 4: be a time. But I think the unique indefinable thing

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Speaker 4: that makes us human is what is going to save

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Speaker 4: this from a I mean, use it as a servant.

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Speaker 1: It's never going to replace us, and it's never going.

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Speaker 4: To replace a good teacher or somebody with an inquiring

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Speaker 4: mind who puts the dots together and goes, no.

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Speaker 3: But why don't we try this? You know, I'm really

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Speaker 3: quite excited about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about it too. I'm glad you're excited about

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Speaker 1: you excited about it.

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Speaker 2: Tom, I'm excited, but I'm also concerned because now the

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Speaker 2: excitement is like so, for example, and Maxim, we did

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Speaker 2: a paper on AI and education. The possibility is that

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Speaker 2: we could have a teacher pupil ratio of one to

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Speaker 2: one using AI. And that's amazing because everyone knows that

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Speaker 2: every kid is different, every kid has different strengths, different

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Speaker 2: learly and that that's incredible. I guess the question though,

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Speaker 2: is just what as AI becomes more powerful, just what

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Speaker 2: informs its moral code and whether it's telling us the

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Speaker 2: truth or whether it forms a kind of sentience that

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Speaker 2: does concern me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah too, right now, listen, guys, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for coming in.

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Speaker 2: Is that it?

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Speaker 1: That's fast?

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Speaker 3: Thank God?

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Speaker 2: That the show? Yeah, why don't we just stick around.

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Speaker 4: When you're left dissatisfied after just such a short time.

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Speaker 1: Tim Wilson, the kids, thank you both for being here.

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Speaker 2: Appreciated For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live

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Speaker 2: to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or

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Speaker 2: follow the podcast on Iheard Video