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Speaker 1: So one in four school principles claim to see harmful

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Speaker 1: behavior every day, and the Children's Commissioner now wants to

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Speaker 1: see this change. This is to do with bullying. The

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Speaker 1: Commissioner wants schools to regularly report and publicly share data

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Speaker 1: on bullying at school. In other words, keep a logbook

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Speaker 1: and then publish it. Secondary School's Principal Association President Vaughan

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Speaker 1: Quio is with me, Hi, Vaughn or how are you

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Speaker 1: yeah good? Thank you? Good idea bad idea? Or is

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Speaker 1: this just a pen pusher with a dumb idea? It

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Speaker 1: sounds sort of sounds like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, the good part of it is nobody wants to

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Speaker 2: see anyone bullied or hurt at school, right, So we've

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Speaker 2: got an obligation to make sure we get that right.

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Speaker 2: What challenging about it is it's not quite as easily

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Speaker 2: quantified as you might think, sort of like when you

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Speaker 2: were when you were talking about the Mayor's pool a

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Speaker 2: minute ago. It's not quite as easy as just judging

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Speaker 2: a money coming off the off that pontoon there. You

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Speaker 2: could apply some fairly simple rules in how high the splashes,

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Speaker 2: for example, but when it comes to when it comes

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Speaker 2: to behavior management, and defining what bullying is, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of gray space. Every little conflict is born of different stuff.

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Speaker 2: And of course when you look at say the bully

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Speaker 2: Free New Zealand website, there's clear definitions of what bullying is.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's deliberate, there's a power and balance, it

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Speaker 2: happens more than once. It's a it's a repetitive behavior

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Speaker 2: that's designed to cause harm. And we often confuse bullying

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Speaker 2: with just people not liking each other and having a

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Speaker 2: conflict that's relatively short lived or one off acts of

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Speaker 2: people being mean or rude. And so if we were

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Speaker 2: going to have a national data base, that's that's reporting

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Speaker 2: on that data in a public way or a way

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Speaker 2: of reporting that through our existing system, you have to

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Speaker 2: you'd have to have consistency across everybody, every teacher, every

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Speaker 2: data entry point.

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Speaker 1: Too hard basket, Yeah, okay, all right, well we won't

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Speaker 1: do it then, I mean, why do we? So why

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Speaker 1: do we bother with these thanks job? Before we have

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Speaker 1: these reports? Then we have the Children's Commissioner coming out

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Speaker 1: and calling for regular reporting, and then we have the

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Speaker 1: pptiaga maut and join them. I mean, why don't we

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Speaker 1: just go back to teaching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's that is an argument, right, but part

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Speaker 2: of the teaching is guest, there's literacy and numeracy, but

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Speaker 2: we're actually we're actually there is social engineers and trying

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Speaker 2: to teach people correct behavior as well. So it's a

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Speaker 2: bit cliche, but it does take everyone to raise a child,

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Speaker 2: and I think the the Children's Commissioner raising the issue

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Speaker 2: and causing a conversation to happen will sharpen people's focus

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Speaker 2: up around that, So that side of it is not

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Speaker 2: so bad. But you're not going to necessarily get anywhere

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Speaker 2: publicly reporting that my school has the worst bullying in

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Speaker 2: the country, because all it will happen is everyone will

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Speaker 2: flood away from my school and you've got a massive

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Speaker 2: Crown asset that's sitting empty on my campus.

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Speaker 1: Do you think people might actually some of the schools

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Speaker 1: might actually under report because they don't want to look

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Speaker 1: at the bullies school.

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Speaker 2: There's a significant disincentive to it, right, So you want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that you're first doing no harm. Very hypocratic, right,

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Speaker 2: and so you want to make sure that whatever solution

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Speaker 2: you put in place, actually the point is to stop

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Speaker 2: the bullying from happening, not expose this, that or the

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Speaker 2: other thing.

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Speaker 1: Vaughan, what about there's lots of people messaging and saying

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Speaker 1: bullying is actually I mean, obviously someone's getting beaten to

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Speaker 1: within a into their life. No one wants to see that.

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Speaker 1: But a little bit of bullying is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It orders kids, you know, A little.

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Speaker 2: Bit of a little bit of a little bit of

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Speaker 2: banter is a good thing. There's quite a difference between

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Speaker 2: banter that you and I might have as friends when

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Speaker 2: we meet on Friday and hassle each other over our

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Speaker 2: working weeks and bullying. So remember, bullying is about an

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Speaker 2: imbalance of power and repetitive and so where there's an

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Speaker 2: imbalance of parents, not even I'm feeling subordinate to you,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't I don't have a sense of social

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Speaker 2: justice or fineness around that. And so if we're talking

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Speaker 2: about bullying, a little bit of bullying is not okay.

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Speaker 2: Banter between mates is probably the thing that they're referring

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Speaker 2: to them if they think it might be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, thank you very much. So that

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Speaker 1: really appreciate your time has always worn Creer with us

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Speaker 1: just gone fourteen minutes after four here on News Talks

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Speaker 1: ibb vauns from these secondary principles. Association, by the way, says,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about your log book for bullying, because what

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Speaker 1: is bullying anyway? Nine nine two is the number to text.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I do think not bullying, but a little bit of

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Speaker 1: teasing and ribbing is just part of life, especially when

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Speaker 1: you're growing up, when you're that age. For more from

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Speaker 1: Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to news Talks ITB

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Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.