1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: The loosening of the rules around withdrawals from Kiwi Saver 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: actually went against official advice, which we are aware of. 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: The New Zealand Herald Wellington Business editor Tibshrainey let me 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: try that again, genatibshraining has found that MB opposed the 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: government's proposal. Farmers though lobbied hard for the change. In 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: Jena's with us now hij name Hi Heather. Have the 7 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: officials got a point? 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: I think they do. Basically, the government recently announced that 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: it would loosen the rules around who can take money 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: out of their Kiwi Saver. So under the new rules 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: when they come into force, you can withdraw money if 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 2: you are buying a first home on farmland. So currently 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: if you take out money you have to do that 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: as an individual. What they're saying is is that if 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 2: you're wanting to buy farmland and you are a shareholder 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: in a company or you have a trust, you can 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: do it through those sorts of vehicles. It's kind of 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: like taking money out of your key we sabor to 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: buy a business that you might be able to compare 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: it to that. They're also saying you can take money 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: out if you want to buy a house that you 22 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 2: don't live in because you have to live somewhere else 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: for work, and your work pays for you to live 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: somewhere else. So that's you know, if you're a rural 25 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: work or if you're a diplomat or in defense force 26 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: or something like that. So the thing is is that 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: you know MB makes this key point that the point 28 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: of care we save it is to help you save 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: for your retirement. It's meant to be really simple, easy 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: to use, and it's impossible to create a scheme that 31 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: sort of caters to every type of person and all 32 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: their circumstances. The problem is when you start making all 33 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: these exemptions, you know, it can be unfair. So I 34 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: might say, well, I want to buy a house somewhere else, 35 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: but I live in Wellington, and why can't I do that? 36 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: I have to live in Wellington for my job. You know, 37 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: I think it's unfair. Or you know, I want to 38 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: take my money out to buy a business and just 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: because I'm not a farmer, I can't do that. So, 40 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: you know, examples makes a fair point. 41 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: Do you know the whole spoil example, good farmers take 42 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: the money out to buy a house that is attached 43 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: to a farm, being a business HOSPO. People might want 44 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: to take the money out to buy a family house 45 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: that's attached to a restaurant, for example, and they can't exactly. 46 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: So that is an example that MB used. I think 47 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: it's a really fair one. The other thing they say 48 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: is that, you know, they didn't think there was really 49 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: an issue, so they said that Federated farmers lobbied the government, 50 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: and they think the government acted on the back of 51 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: this lobbying, and also anecdotes rather than evidence, So that's 52 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: pretty scathing for MB to say. The other thing they 53 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: say is, well, actually, if the problem is it's difficult 54 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: to buy a farm, they don't think that this is 55 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: the solution to helping people into farm ownership. The average 56 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: amount that people take out of their kbsavior to buy 57 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: a first home is forty one thousand dollars, where the 58 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: average dairy farm sold in twenty twenty four was more 59 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: than six million dollars. So you know, if you're trying 60 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 2: to buy six million dollar as SID, I'm not sure 61 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: how useful an extra forty thousand dollars would be. You 62 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: could say, oh, well, you know, why not just let 63 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: people take their qbsaver out, let them do what they want, 64 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: So that's fair enough. The problem is that if the 65 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: rules are tinkered with too much, there is this perception 66 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: issue and people go, oh, we can't really trust the 67 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: scheme because the government will keep changing the rules. So 68 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: the government really needs to sort of keep its power 69 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: to dry and only change the rules if the changes 70 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: are you really going to help a whole lot of people. 71 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: And this doesn't really meet that bar. 72 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: Isn't the problem actually when you think about it, because 73 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: now I can Now you've done it for the farmers. 74 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: Now you have to do it for the hospital workers. 75 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: Then you have to do it for the people who 76 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: are living away from where they work. Blah blah blah 77 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: blah goes on. Isn't the problem? Actually it starts with 78 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: being able to take money out to buy your house. 79 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: There is your problem. You should then have done it 80 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: in the first place. 81 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: YEP. Controversial take, and I think there's a definite argument 82 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: around that. Previously, the Retirement Commission made a case for 83 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: why actually home ownership and so the Retirement Commission, these 84 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: are the experts in this area, and I think the 85 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: government should listen to them. But you know that they 86 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: have debated this and they've said well, actually owning a 87 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: home is key to having a good retirement. So if 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: that's the point, Actually, if you reach retirement with some 89 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 2: money and your key saver and owning a home, then 90 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: that's going to be good for you. But you know 91 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: it's a fair point because people might say, well, I 92 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: don't want to invest in home ownership. I want to 93 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: invest in a business, So why are you letting me 94 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: take it out for a house but not for this 95 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: amazing business that's going to employ people. You know, it 96 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: does open a can of worms, but yeah, yeah it does. 97 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: You know that the issue with home ownership is we 98 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: should address making it affordable to buy a home again. 99 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 2: Key we savers shouldn't be used to fix other problems 100 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: in society like causing affordability or difficulties in farming. 101 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: Do you know? Thanks very much or see you tomorrow? 102 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: Do you know? 103 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: To p Chrainey, The Herald's Wellington Business editor. For more 104 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. 105 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 106 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.