Speaker 1: Yoda.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. India has
Speaker 2: suffered its first series defeat at home since twenty twelve,
Speaker 2: at the hands of none other than New Zealand.
Speaker 1: The too nil defeat came.
Speaker 2: When India was bowled out for two hundred and forty
Speaker 2: five by the Black Caps in their chase of three
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty nine on the third day of the
Speaker 2: second Test. So what does this mean for cricket in
Speaker 2: New Zealand Today? On the Front Page ends at Herald Online,
Speaker 2: Sports editor Alex Powell joins us to discuss this historic
Speaker 2: win and why it matters.
Speaker 1: First off, Alex, tell me about the series. Give me
Speaker 1: the highlights, I.
Speaker 3: Mean of where do you start with the highlights? So
Speaker 3: basically to filly in as quickly as I can. New
Speaker 3: Zealand have gone to India for a three Test series.
Speaker 3: They were expected to get smashed and India don't lose
Speaker 3: at home. I think they've only lost about six tests
Speaker 3: in the last twelve years. Two of those have been
Speaker 3: over the past two weeks, so the black Caps one
Speaker 3: in Bengaluru last week that was their first Test win
Speaker 3: in India for thirty six years, So all the reaction
Speaker 3: there was, oh, it was a fluke, it was a fluke.
Speaker 3: And then to back it up, they did the same
Speaker 3: in Pune over the last couple of nights. And it's
Speaker 3: amazing really because this team has no business doing that
Speaker 3: to India. India's resources and cricket and the player pool
Speaker 3: that they have, they shouldn't lose to anyone, especially in
Speaker 3: New Zealand. Two only have five million people. That's the
Speaker 3: population of a woman by suburb. I mean, the real
Speaker 3: highlight is the permance of Mitchell Satna that he left Umpspinner,
Speaker 3: who was man of the match. Eventually he took thirteen
Speaker 3: wickets to bowl Inder out twice. Before that his best
Speaker 3: figures we had only taken three wickets and I think
Speaker 3: he beat that with seven. I think of all his
Speaker 3: career wickets now, twenty percent of them have come from
Speaker 3: this game. So he is the real individual highlight. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: just looking at the team performance to go to in
Speaker 3: there and win for the fourth time in history, two
Speaker 3: of them had come before that, and then obviously the
Speaker 3: next two have been over the last week, so I mean,
Speaker 3: all round, that's pretty much where you stand on it.
Speaker 4: It's not just a dream. It should be a movie
Speaker 4: because talk about a ragtag team of misfits. You know,
Speaker 4: a new captain. Probably not that many superstars. I mean,
Speaker 4: Ratchin might end up being an all time great, but
Speaker 4: just a team that just bonded together. And with Mitchell Satner,
Speaker 4: I think they call it in the flow state or
Speaker 4: feeling himself in the modern parlance, as an all time performance.
Speaker 4: He's had his Doug Bracewl and Hobart test right there.
Speaker 2: For those of us who don't watch or understand the sport,
Speaker 2: can you explain to me what a series is.
Speaker 1: We're going back to basics, Alex.
Speaker 3: I mean that's very basic. I mean a series is
Speaker 3: two or more matches played one after the other, so
Speaker 3: this is three. The black Caps don't play a lot
Speaker 3: of three Test series because their standing in cricket isn't
Speaker 3: actually that high. It's not that profit ab to play
Speaker 3: series and long series against New Zealand.
Speaker 2: I'll read your headline and you may have already answered this,
Speaker 2: but I will say it anyway. New Zealand have followed
Speaker 2: one of their best Test wins with one of the
Speaker 2: best Test performances.
Speaker 1: By a New Zealander. Do you know who that player is?
Speaker 3: Well, that was Mitchell Center, who I just spoke about exactly.
Speaker 1: You took it away from me. But why was his
Speaker 1: performance so good?
Speaker 3: Do you think, with the greatest of respect to Mitchell Santner,
Speaker 3: his displays and Test cricket have been quite unremarkable. Since
Speaker 3: he debuted what fifteen so nearly ten years ago, he's
Speaker 3: only played about twenty nine to thirty Tests. Since that's
Speaker 3: not a lot for a guy who has the senior
Speaker 3: standing that he does. You know, he'll come in for
Speaker 3: two games and then we dropped for five, you know,
Speaker 3: and now we're at the point where we're solely picking
Speaker 3: him on conditions and in this case it played into
Speaker 3: his hands perfectly.
Speaker 5: It's obviously pretty pleasing. Test griger for me has been
Speaker 5: I can't out and you know, I guess to get
Speaker 5: these conditions over here and put in a I guess
Speaker 5: a shift like that is pretty pleasing. But I guess
Speaker 5: to do it against India and I guess kind of
Speaker 5: beat them at their own game. I guess that was
Speaker 5: the most pleasant thing for us in that second Test.
Speaker 2: Anyway, And in terms of this series, I mean, you
Speaker 2: watched every moment of it.
Speaker 1: You lapped it up. What do you think the Black
Speaker 1: Caps did differently?
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a really difficult question to answer because
Speaker 3: the game plan that they had was basically the same
Speaker 3: one they had in Sri Lanka where they got swept turnal.
Speaker 3: I think the performance of India was really what's done
Speaker 3: in India have just imploded in this series. They've not
Speaker 3: lost a home Test series since twenty twelve, they'd won
Speaker 3: eighteen consecutive series in the time since then. They've beaten
Speaker 3: every nation there apart from Pakistan. And yet it's New
Speaker 3: Zealand that's pulled their pants down again.
Speaker 1: So how historic is this defeat for them?
Speaker 3: For India, it's their first Test series loss at home
Speaker 3: to New Zealand and then conversely it's New Zealand's first
Speaker 3: away series win in India. I mean, you'd probably have
Speaker 3: to ask India where it ranks. They don't look at
Speaker 3: New Zealand in the greater picture and say these guys
Speaker 3: are our big rivals. They think, you know, Australia and
Speaker 3: England because that's where cricket is now that those three
Speaker 3: countries dominate. Then they also probably love beating Pakistan more
Speaker 3: than anyone as well. Whether or not this really rankles
Speaker 3: in history is probably to be seen and for India to.
Speaker 2: Answer, is it more historic than for New Zealand to
Speaker 2: have done this to India?
Speaker 3: No, New Zealand are definitely the biggest story head Like,
Speaker 3: we will look back on this team in ten years
Speaker 3: and wow, I can't believe they did that. They had
Speaker 3: no business winning one test in the series, never one
Speaker 3: two with one still to play.
Speaker 1: What are some of the international coverage being of this?
Speaker 3: So cricket now as a sport effectively just bends over
Speaker 3: backwards to praise India. I think the status for every
Speaker 3: dollar in international cricket ninety odd cents, so it comes
Speaker 3: from India. The sport is completely fixated on making them
Speaker 3: most of that audience. So in a lot of ways,
Speaker 3: the Black Caps have really upset the Apple car by
Speaker 3: doing this.
Speaker 1: Some online have called it humiliating for India. Are they right?
Speaker 1: And is it because New Zealand did it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean like if anyone beat India in India,
Speaker 3: it's humiliating. The fixation with Indian cricket in India is
Speaker 3: the same as we have with the All Blacks anytime
Speaker 3: there's a loss, especially in test cricket, we want a
Speaker 3: national inquiry and it's the same over there.
Speaker 2: So will the alarm bells be ringing for India now
Speaker 2: because they're off on a five match tour of Australia
Speaker 2: next month.
Speaker 3: Hey yeah, this was very much they're warm up. They
Speaker 3: should have smashed us, gone to Australia huge on confidence
Speaker 3: and then tried to do the same over there. And
Speaker 3: now there are just going to be so many questions
Speaker 3: around this team. Are the players too old? As the
Speaker 3: captain the right person to do the job? Have they
Speaker 3: got to move some of their star players on and
Speaker 3: we can thank New Singland for that?
Speaker 1: And what do you make of all of those questions?
Speaker 1: Should they?
Speaker 3: I mean, you can never really be too reactive about
Speaker 3: these things. They should absolutely be planning for the future
Speaker 3: at all times anyway, because that's what you do when
Speaker 3: you're a country of that size. There's never going to
Speaker 3: be a shortage of talent in Indian cricket. But whether
Speaker 3: or not now has just put it on fast forward.
Speaker 3: Remember India did win the T twenty World Cup earlier
Speaker 3: this year, the men's one. We know who won the
Speaker 3: women's one, don't we so how they react to it
Speaker 3: will be really interesting to see because they do have
Speaker 3: a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath
Speaker 3: order on some of these things they are.
Speaker 6: That's what I think about this, say a little a
Speaker 6: little worried, but I just think if India's batting comes good,
Speaker 6: then I think you never to start fear it's if
Speaker 6: you can just struggle with that, dopport, then I fear
Speaker 6: it might be in Australian summer.
Speaker 2: So India continue to top the World Test Championship standings
Speaker 2: despite the two defeats, but will they be less confident
Speaker 2: about a spot in next year's final after their first
Speaker 2: series loss on home soil of course, since falling to
Speaker 2: England in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: I mean they should be less confident because, like you said,
Speaker 3: they go to Australia for five tests. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's out of the question to think Australia can win
Speaker 3: that five No. I mean to start with, India will
Speaker 3: need to beat in New Zealand and the third Test
Speaker 3: in Mumbai. That's non negotible. Now they needed to win
Speaker 3: all these pests and then basically go to Australia and
Speaker 3: get something, whereas now they have to get everything from Australia.
Speaker 2: And it's not only the men's team making good on
Speaker 2: that international stage, is it.
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the woman won the T twenty World Cup? What
Speaker 3: last week?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Sorry, time's a bit blurred now for me because there's
Speaker 3: been so much.
Speaker 2: Over It's been so much cricket to watch. So how
Speaker 2: historic was that win for the women's.
Speaker 3: Historic's probably not the right word because they did win
Speaker 3: the full fifty over World Cup in two thousand, but
Speaker 3: that was in a whole generation of players a go
Speaker 3: so much so that this generation was saying how they
Speaker 3: watched that one and got inspired from it. But I mean,
Speaker 3: on the whole, it's just a great time to be
Speaker 3: a keep a cricket fan, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Could this bolster cricket's popularity in New Zealand. I feel
Speaker 2: like we're constantly talking about rugby and its stars, the
Speaker 2: All Blacks.
Speaker 1: Do you think the same can be said about cricket
Speaker 1: and greats?
Speaker 3: I think rugby is such a different thing to compare
Speaker 3: any of this too, because rugby isn't a sport in
Speaker 3: this country. It's entertainment. Whether or not we'll look at
Speaker 3: the cricketers in the same lives with the rugby players,
Speaker 3: I don't think so we've already seen this generation of
Speaker 3: men's cricketers are the best we'll probably ever have, and
Speaker 3: they can all still walk down the street without being bombarded.
Speaker 3: But I mean the effect this is going to have
Speaker 3: on kids. There's a phrase that you seen in sport,
Speaker 3: you can't be what you can't see. And now we've
Speaker 3: had a generation of girls grow up and see their
Speaker 3: team win the T twenty World Cup, World champion.
Speaker 2: Susi bats Susie, good morning, congratulations, How are you really?
Speaker 5: Jess so pumped we've just sung the team song in
Speaker 5: the changing room.
Speaker 4: Yeah, surreal.
Speaker 1: The tournament has been.
Speaker 3: So great for this group and to be world champions.
Speaker 5: You know, we've had a couple of cracks, but not
Speaker 5: recently and just so fazz Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 3: We've had a generation of boys come through and see
Speaker 3: their team just be amazing since what twenty fourteen, they've
Speaker 3: won the World Test Championship in that time as well.
Speaker 3: So I think the future really is bright. But now
Speaker 3: it's up to news in the cricket to have the
Speaker 3: right pathways in place for this talent to come through.
Speaker 1: Do we fund it enough?
Speaker 3: That's such a difficult question to us because New Zealand
Speaker 3: cricket does not make a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Well how does India do it?
Speaker 3: I mean they've got the population base that they can
Speaker 3: sell advertising to one point four billion people who are
Speaker 3: all mad about it. Cricket it's not really a priority
Speaker 3: sport for us here. It's our main summer code. But
Speaker 3: rugby just has such a huge footprint and they look
Speaker 3: at rugby league, you look at netball for girls coming up.
Speaker 3: So whether or not cricket can keep going forward, you
Speaker 3: probably will need another twenty years of success to even
Speaker 3: have a chance of breaking through the grip of the
Speaker 3: big sport.
Speaker 1: So Alex, what's next with this series?
Speaker 3: Well, there's the one Test to play. Let's not forget
Speaker 3: the black Caps do have the luxury of being able
Speaker 3: to lose that, you know, But we spoke about the
Speaker 3: World Test Championship. For India's place in the final will
Speaker 3: come down to what they do. But the black Caps
Speaker 3: can also push for that final. Now they were effectively
Speaker 3: out of contention after losing in Sri Lanka. But now
Speaker 3: if they could win this one to three nil and
Speaker 3: then come home and beat England three nil, who we
Speaker 3: play next month. That will really give them the best
Speaker 3: chance of making it and hopefully winning it for a
Speaker 3: second time since winning the first one in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: Do you reckon that they can maintain that momentum though?
Speaker 3: I mean, so, England and New Zealand have a really
Speaker 3: interesting relationship now. England's captain and coach are both Kighleis
Speaker 3: and Ben Stokes and Brenda mccallums, so the two sides
Speaker 3: know each other very well. They've played some really memorable
Speaker 3: matches and series. Remember the twenty nineteen World Cup Final
Speaker 3: that no one deserves to lose and likeably no one
Speaker 3: did lose. So what happens from there? I don't know.
Speaker 3: England have just lost in Pakistan as well, in similar
Speaker 3: conditions to what New Zealand have played in India. But
Speaker 3: coming over here there'll be a bit more familiar, will
Speaker 3: be a bit more familiar. I mean, who knows. I
Speaker 3: hope for a three norwin on top of winning in
Speaker 3: Mumbai next or later this week, but we can just
Speaker 3: have to wait and see, aren't we.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Alex.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enzed Herald dot co dot z. The front page
Speaker 2: is produced by Ethan Sills with sound engineer Patty Fox.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or rare you
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Speaker 2: behind the headlines.