Speaker 1: Kyoda.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The Trump
Speaker 2: tariff wars are officially on US President Donald Trump's first
Speaker 2: two targets are Mexico and Canada, imposing twenty five percent
Speaker 2: tariffs on their products and twenty percent on Chinese imports.
Speaker 2: These three countries accounted for more than forty percent of
Speaker 2: imports into the US last year. He's also introduced a
Speaker 2: twenty five percent tariff on all steel and aluminum products worldwide.
Speaker 2: On his social media scide Truth Social, Trump said if
Speaker 2: the EU doesn't remove a proposed fifty percent tariff on
Speaker 2: US bourbon, the US will place a two hundred percent
Speaker 2: tariff on all wines, champagnes and alcoholic products coming out
Speaker 2: of the EU. New Zealand's Foreign Minister, Winston Peters, is
Speaker 2: currently in the US. He said is approaching the Trump
Speaker 2: administration with eyes wide open, and that he's prepared to listen,
Speaker 2: hear them out, hear their side of the story. But
Speaker 2: will that be enough to shift New Zealand out of
Speaker 2: Trump's firing line. Later on the Front Page, we'll speak
Speaker 2: to buy New Zealand made Executive director Dane Ambler about
Speaker 2: whether we've seen any impact here yet. But first, CBC
Speaker 2: News Senior Parliamentary reporter Jp Tasker is with us from Ottawa,
Speaker 2: where citizens are actively boycotting US made products in response.
Speaker 2: So Jp, give me a little background about the back
Speaker 2: and forth between Trump and I guess everyone when it
Speaker 2: comes to tariffs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Trump essentially feels like the world is ripping
Speaker 3: off the United States that for too long the United
Speaker 3: States has, you know, had essentially a tear free relationship
Speaker 3: with every other country honors, but they don't get that
Speaker 3: same respect in But it's really nonsense when it comes
Speaker 3: to Canada, because we've had a ter free relationship with
Speaker 3: the United States for decades. We've had a free trade
Speaker 3: deal since the nineteen eighties, and really all of the
Speaker 3: goods we trade between the United States and Canada, the
Speaker 3: two way trade is almost entirely tear free. So when
Speaker 3: he talks about Canada, it is essentially bogus. He is
Speaker 3: lying constantly about us and our trading relationship, and a
Speaker 3: lot of us in this country are getting absolutely fed
Speaker 3: up with it and are very frustrated with a country
Speaker 3: that was for decades really our closest friend, partner, and ally,
Speaker 3: and a lot of us in this country don't think
Speaker 3: of them that way anymore. And a lot of it
Speaker 3: has to do with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So what's Canada done in response?
Speaker 3: Canada has really hit back at the United States. We've
Speaker 3: slapped some retaliatory tariffs on the US because Donald Trump
Speaker 3: has put unfair, unjustified, unjustifiable tariffs, as our government calls it,
Speaker 3: on our goods. So he's put twenty five percent tariffs
Speaker 3: on most goods. He's put an extra twenty five percent
Speaker 3: on stealing aluminum exports, and so Canada has hit back
Speaker 3: with about sixty billion dollars worth of retaliatory tariffs on
Speaker 3: American goods, targeting everything from steel and sporting equipment, cast iron, goods, cosmetics, cologne,
Speaker 3: you name it. It's a long list, and we're trying
Speaker 3: to essentially make Republican states in particular pay for the
Speaker 3: actions of Donald Trump. So we're trying to be very
Speaker 3: targeted in our approach as we implement these countermeasures. We're
Speaker 3: trying to make it more difficult for some of the
Speaker 3: President's supporters in Congress and for some of their constituents
Speaker 3: and some of the businesses and the workers in those areas,
Speaker 3: and Canada is essentially saying we're ready to go further
Speaker 3: and farther if we need to, we will ramp up
Speaker 3: these retaliatory terrafts. If Trump wants to take us on
Speaker 3: again in April, as he says he does.
Speaker 2: How will the tariffs affect Canada's economy.
Speaker 3: Well, the tariffs are absolutely devastating for the Canadian economy
Speaker 3: because we are so dependent on the United States por trade.
Speaker 3: So many of the goods that we produce in this
Speaker 3: country are exported to the US. So if you're making
Speaker 3: all of these goods twenty five percent more expensive, but
Speaker 3: essentially prices out a lot of these Canadian goods, it
Speaker 3: becomes less economically viable for American importers to bring in
Speaker 3: Canadian stuff. So a lot of businesses, a lot of
Speaker 3: jobs are on the line as a result of Trump's attacks,
Speaker 3: as a result of his trade war, So a lot
Speaker 3: of people are gearing up for unemployment in this country, frankly,
Speaker 3: and that's why there's so much anger, there's so much frustration,
Speaker 3: there's so much fear because we have essentially been dependent
Speaker 3: on the United States when it comes to trade. Seventy
Speaker 3: five eighty percent of all of our exports go to
Speaker 3: that single market, and so there's going to be a
Speaker 3: very abrupt period of adjustment. That's going to be pretty ugly,
Speaker 3: that's not going to be pleasant, and it's going to
Speaker 3: be very, very unfortunate for us because we have essentially
Speaker 3: only been wedded to the Americans. We've let a lot
Speaker 3: of our other relationships atrophy over the years, and we've
Speaker 3: just been sucked into their vortex. And now a lot
Speaker 3: of people are questioning whether that was a good idea.
Speaker 3: So we'll do a Canadian a.
Speaker 4: Coffee shop on Vancouver Island and a quiet act of defiance.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 4: What's beneath the bravado a seeding sense of betrayal.
Speaker 5: You know, this this bullying. You know we're a tenth
Speaker 5: of the size of that country, but we picked no fight,
Speaker 5: but it just keeps coming to us.
Speaker 4: On the top shelf, Alan hides the labels of American
Speaker 4: made bottles.
Speaker 5: Tennessee Wayne Gretzky Cream and it's basically it's just about
Speaker 5: empty anyway.
Speaker 4: Wayne Gretzky Cream. Liqueur wants a Canadian ice hockey hero,
Speaker 4: now considered a traitor for his support of.
Speaker 5: Trump, he's proven that he doesn't even respect our country anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm saying there's a push amongst the public to boycott
Speaker 2: US product. This movement has reached Europe as well. Tesla
Speaker 2: styles of falling and absent. Online groups are springing up
Speaker 2: everywhere to help consumers choose non US items. What have
Speaker 2: you heard in saying on the ground In Canada.
Speaker 3: There's a huge movement to stop buying American products. It
Speaker 3: is pretty remarkable. I mean every time you go to
Speaker 3: the grocery store, you see people picking up goods and
Speaker 3: looking at where was this made? If it says made
Speaker 3: in America, it gets put back on the shelf. People
Speaker 3: are there's a coordinating effort not to buy American products
Speaker 3: right now. And I mean there's a Facebook group online
Speaker 3: Chelsea for example. It has one point three million members
Speaker 3: alone and there's one group and it's all about how
Speaker 3: to buy Canadian and how to avoid American. So people
Speaker 3: are absolutely voting with their wallet right now and making
Speaker 3: the decision to buy Canadian or buy from other countries,
Speaker 3: as long as it's not the United States, that's the
Speaker 3: main that's the main factor people are considering right now.
Speaker 3: And we know it's working grocers. The major grocers in
Speaker 3: the country are reporting that sales are down dramatically for
Speaker 3: US goods. They're bringing in a lot more products from
Speaker 3: countries that we don't normally buy from, you know, Peru, Israel,
Speaker 3: other places, Morocco, South America, places where we traditionally don't
Speaker 3: have much of a trading relationship at all. Now we're
Speaker 3: bringing in their oranges, in their nuts, and their grocery goods.
Speaker 3: And it's all because Canadians are diametrically opposed. Many of
Speaker 3: them are diametrically opposed of buying anything from south of
Speaker 3: the border.
Speaker 2: I see. Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has ruled out
Speaker 2: reciprocal tariffs on the US after Trump ruled out exemptions
Speaker 2: for any countries, calling Trump's move entirely unjustified, but he
Speaker 2: said imposing these reciprocal tariffs would only push prices up
Speaker 2: for Australian consumers and spur inflation. Now is there a
Speaker 2: worry in Canada that pushback could do the same.
Speaker 3: There is a concern, but it really is a minority
Speaker 3: voice right now. The country is completely behind doing whatever
Speaker 3: we can to make the Americans pay for this situation.
Speaker 3: So people are not thinking about their pocketbook right now.
Speaker 3: They really think it's in the best interests of the
Speaker 3: country to push back, to not take Trump and his nonsense,
Speaker 3: and to do whatever we can to try and make
Speaker 3: it clear to him and other people in his administration,
Speaker 3: other people in Congress that Canada will not just roll
Speaker 3: over when he tries to come for us economically. Most
Speaker 3: people are unified. Polls suggest eighty ninety percent of Canadians
Speaker 3: are completely in favor of retaliatory measures. And the reason
Speaker 3: why they are is we've been down this road before, Chelsea.
Speaker 3: If you remember, Trump slapped tariffs on Canadian steel and
Speaker 3: aluminum in his first term and it was very damaging
Speaker 3: at the time, and Canada hit back with retaliatory tariffs
Speaker 3: and that's part of the reason why he ultimately dropped
Speaker 3: those tariffs in the first term. So we have a
Speaker 3: lot of experience with his trade nonsense, and what's worked
Speaker 3: for us in the past is making the Americans pay.
Speaker 3: If there's no pain point for the Americans, why would
Speaker 3: they ever drop their tariffs. That's sort of the reasoning
Speaker 3: from the federal government, and that's why they're going this
Speaker 3: route again now.
Speaker 2: When you said Canada po kind of pigeonholed in having
Speaker 2: all of its trade in one place. I mean that
Speaker 2: hit home because New Zealand is actually in the midst
Speaker 2: of diversifying its trade deals because one of our biggest
Speaker 2: trade partners is China. Our Prime minister is solely focused
Speaker 2: on the likes of India and Southeast Asia. I saw
Speaker 2: Alberta Premier Danielle Smith said her province is looking for
Speaker 2: customers beyond the US, kind of in Asia and Europe.
Speaker 2: Who could Canada's biggest trading partners become.
Speaker 3: Well well, Canada is very keen to cozy up to
Speaker 3: the United Kingdom and frankly Australia and New Zealand. There
Speaker 3: is this push to kind of rebuild Commonwealth ties and
Speaker 3: to kind of bring you know, the Commonwealth cousins back
Speaker 3: together again. The government just had a huge trade mission
Speaker 3: to Australia. Our Foreign Minister was just in the UK
Speaker 3: saying we need the UK more than ever and the UK,
Speaker 3: I think is receptive to that, in part because they've
Speaker 3: been through Braxit, they've been through some economic convulsions with Europe.
Speaker 3: They're also looking for trade partners. We're about to sign
Speaker 3: a free trade deal with the UK. I mean, these
Speaker 3: are some of the ways that we can bolster our
Speaker 3: economic links to other countries. We're talking about South Korea too,
Speaker 3: in Japan, some of the major Asian markets, especially as
Speaker 3: it relates to energy. As you point out, they's talk
Speaker 3: about building more pipelines to tide water to get more
Speaker 3: of our abundant oil to other markets, but principally in Asia.
Speaker 3: But yeah, the problem is we're so geographically tied to
Speaker 3: the United States. I mean, ninety percent of our population
Speaker 3: lives within one hundred and sixty kilometers of the US border.
Speaker 3: So it's going to be very difficult for US to
Speaker 3: pivot from being so reliant for so long on one customer.
Speaker 3: And frankly, will never be able to replace the US.
Speaker 3: None of these other countries, no offense to them, great
Speaker 3: friends and partners and allies, will never be able to
Speaker 3: replace the economically dominant force that is the United States,
Speaker 3: especially when we live right next to them. So it's
Speaker 3: going to be tough, but we will strategically, the government says,
Speaker 3: reach out, make alliances with other countries that could take
Speaker 3: some of our goods if the US doesn't want them anymore.
Speaker 4: Will you be traveling to the States anytime soon.
Speaker 3: Not ever.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go over the border again.
Speaker 6: Unfortunately things have changed in the States and I'm happy
Speaker 6: to spend most of my holidays here in Canada.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm starting to love Mexico because our money's not good,
Speaker 2: so you might as well stay south of the border.
Speaker 1: Down Mexico way. Good voice, huh.
Speaker 2: I read on Forbes that last month, the number of
Speaker 2: Canadians taking road trips into the US, representing the majority
Speaker 2: of Canadians who visit the US, dropped by twenty three
Speaker 2: percent compared to February twenty twenty four, according to data
Speaker 2: from Statistics Canada, while Canadian air travel to the US
Speaker 2: was down by two point four percent of the same period.
Speaker 2: What's it like anecdotally? Are you seeing less Canadians choosing
Speaker 2: the US as a travel destination now?
Speaker 3: So many Canadians are saying, you know, I am not
Speaker 3: going to the United States right now. It is not happening.
Speaker 3: It is not on. And you know that's a big
Speaker 3: thing because, as I said, we live so close to
Speaker 3: the border. So many of us, it's very easy to
Speaker 3: go to the United States. It's just a very quick
Speaker 3: day trip in many instances. So many Canadians own property
Speaker 3: in the state of Florida, in Arizona and California. I'm
Speaker 3: talking hundreds of thousands of Canadians own property in the US.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of traffic back and forth, and
Speaker 3: so it is a big deal to see those numbers
Speaker 3: drop as they have, especially right now in our winter.
Speaker 3: You know, it's pretty cold in Canada in March, and
Speaker 3: so to see those numbers drop means there are fewer
Speaker 3: people going to sunnier climbs in the southern United States.
Speaker 3: And I mean that really means for a serious I
Speaker 3: guess because so many of us I want to get
Speaker 3: out of here when it's so cold, But people are saying,
Speaker 3: enough is enough. We don't want to go to Trump's America.
Speaker 3: We don't want to be in the United States when
Speaker 3: so much of this rhetoric is flying around, when he's
Speaker 3: threatening our sovereignty, when he's taunting us with the fifty
Speaker 3: first state talk. Is a very dramatic shift. It's truly
Speaker 3: remarkable to see how we have gone from being so
Speaker 3: close to being really in many respects enemies.
Speaker 1: What do you reckon the next play is?
Speaker 3: I think Canada will continue to press ahead with these
Speaker 3: retaliatory tariffs, that there could be an escalation. I mean,
Speaker 3: we have seen some of our provincial leaders float the
Speaker 3: idea of holding back energy. We export a ton of
Speaker 3: energy to the United States, whether it's oil, natural gas,
Speaker 3: or hydro electricity. There's a potential to play that sort
Speaker 3: of trump card, if you will, and try and force
Speaker 3: them to back down on some of their more aggressive
Speaker 3: economic measures by sort of using our energy as a
Speaker 3: way to corral them into dropping their actions against US.
Speaker 3: I mean, I also think that frankly, they could get
Speaker 3: to the point where it just gets even uglier, you know,
Speaker 3: and then there is really a break, and then it's
Speaker 3: much more difficult to come back together. So I think
Speaker 3: the government, the federal government here in Ottawa, is doing
Speaker 3: its best to try and give Trump some off ramps,
Speaker 3: to give him the chance to dial this back, to
Speaker 3: maybe give him a couple wins, but not all that
Speaker 3: he wants, and that might be a possibility. We have
Speaker 3: a new prime minister that is going to be sworn
Speaker 3: in on Friday. He was just elected in a Liberal
Speaker 3: Party election on Sunday, and he has been pretty forceful
Speaker 3: about the United States, saying that we can't really consider
Speaker 3: them an ally anymore. But he has also talked about
Speaker 3: the possibility of bringing this to a close. So there's
Speaker 3: a chance things get a lot worse before they get better,
Speaker 3: and that's how I suspect it will be.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us JP.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Chelsea. I appreciate you having.
Speaker 2: The Canada isn't the only country sidelining American products at
Speaker 2: the moment, so could we see the same happen here.
Speaker 2: We put this to the executive director of Buy New
Speaker 2: Zealand made Dane Ambler. Dane, do you think Kewe's might
Speaker 2: start boycotting American products along with the Canadians?
Speaker 6: I think it's probably too early to tell. It's still really,
Speaker 6: you know, up in the air as to what Trump's
Speaker 6: tariffs actually mean for New Zealand. So I think we
Speaker 6: need to wait a while for the dust to settle
Speaker 6: and see what it means for us as a country.
Speaker 6: But obviously, if you look around the world, you know,
Speaker 6: even to Australia, Urban Easy came out last week saying
Speaker 6: that you know, the next budget would have like an
Speaker 6: Australian made focus, and there's this real sense of economic
Speaker 6: nationalism sort of sweeping through Canada and Australia and other countries.
Speaker 6: So yeah, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks.
Speaker 2: I know people were really behind supporting local businesses, especially
Speaker 2: during COVID and lockdowns and keeping the economy alive that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Are we still seeing that attitude here
Speaker 2: or has it kind of tape it off a bit?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Absolutely, We've seen considerable momentum since COVID. It probably
Speaker 6: has taped off a little bit. But to be honest
Speaker 6: with you, you know, the world's changed a lot, and
Speaker 6: a lot of businesses that we've spoken to have made
Speaker 6: quite significant changes and already pulled out of those unreliable
Speaker 6: supply chains and started to bring things closer to home.
Speaker 6: So I think, you know, with the ongoing sort of
Speaker 6: geopolitical tensions that are happening in the world at the moment,
Speaker 6: and the lack of control that businesses have over the
Speaker 6: costs and the risks associated with manufacturing overseas, we're just
Speaker 6: going to see more and more companies bringing manufacturing closer
Speaker 6: to home. I think another really interesting element of it
Speaker 6: is what happens with China and Taiwan over the next
Speaker 6: couple of years, and if China does decide to make
Speaker 6: moves there, you know, as a country we're so reliant
Speaker 6: on and what does that mean for the future of
Speaker 6: manufacturing for New Zealm businesses as well.
Speaker 2: So you've seen a lot of New Zealand businesses bring
Speaker 2: manufacturing back on on shore.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we are seeing a bit of
Speaker 6: a trend towards coming home and that was really sparked
Speaker 6: through the COVID period when shipping costs surged and there
Speaker 6: were massive, lengthy delays and disruptions. So companies are starting
Speaker 6: to think about it, you know, probably not as many
Speaker 6: as we'd like to see, but they are thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Yes, do we import much from the US that could
Speaker 2: be easily boycotted anyway?
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, the two way trade with America is
Speaker 6: quite significant. You know, we you know, most importantly, send
Speaker 6: a lot of products over there. So there's a lot
Speaker 6: of agricultural and food product exports. You know, you've got meat, dairy, wine,
Speaker 6: and all of these industries are particularly vulnerable to tariff.
Speaker 6: So we do do a lot of trade with the
Speaker 6: US and we are you know, quite reliant on them
Speaker 6: as a trading partner.
Speaker 2: I've seen stories about apps popping up in Europe and
Speaker 2: Facebook groups in Canada to help people buy locally grown
Speaker 2: and made products. Is there something similar people can use
Speaker 2: in New Zealand.
Speaker 6: We don't have anything like that in New Zealand, but
Speaker 6: you know, you can keep an eye for, you know,
Speaker 6: the made in New Zealand logo. It's on you know,
Speaker 6: one thousand and four hundred small businesses products throughout the country.
Speaker 6: I do think, you know, while you know pro localization,
Speaker 6: we also have to be quite realistic about this. And
Speaker 6: you know, New Zealand is a trading nation. Exports comprise
Speaker 6: about a quarter of our GDP and they's only going
Speaker 6: to grow in coming years. So I think we also
Speaker 6: have to be realistic about, you know, what we can
Speaker 6: buy locally and what we can't as well.
Speaker 2: What are some easy swaps that can be made when
Speaker 2: it comes to New Zealand made. If I go to
Speaker 2: the shops and I usually buy one thing, what's something
Speaker 2: that I can easily just chuck my cart that's actually
Speaker 2: from New Zealand.
Speaker 6: Honestly, we can make pretty much anything in New Zealand.
Speaker 6: Not cars obviously, but if you go to the supermarket,
Speaker 6: there's often a trade off between a New Zealand made
Speaker 6: and an overseas made products, especially in the food and
Speaker 6: beverage sector, and also when you start getting through to
Speaker 6: larger items like furniture and bedding and things like that,
Speaker 6: often the cost to import something like that is so
Speaker 6: significant and the shipping costs is so much that you're
Speaker 6: best to buy local anyway. So there's a whole range
Speaker 6: of products, just keep an eye out for the ones
Speaker 6: that are signaling that they are made in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Dane, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enzdhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 2: our sound engineer.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or where you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
Speaker 2: behind the headlines.