WEBVTT - How a Christchurch Mum's cancer con unravelled

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<v Speaker 1>Kielder. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

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<v Speaker 1>a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. A

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<v Speaker 1>christ churchwoman told friends she was dying of cancer. They

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<v Speaker 1>grieved and gave thousands to help her. But then the

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<v Speaker 1>unthinkable happened.

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<v Speaker 2>It was all the fast.

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<v Speaker 1>Nicola Flint is accused of forging medical letters and defrauding

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<v Speaker 1>a rugby club of more than one hundred thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Today on the Front Page, senior crime reporter and host

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<v Speaker 1>of A Moment in Crime and Elease has been diving

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<v Speaker 1>into this case with a special two part series on

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<v Speaker 1>Flint's diagnosis deception. She joins us. Now, first off, Anna,

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<v Speaker 1>let's set the scene. How did this start?

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<v Speaker 3>So Nikola Flint told friends that she had been diagnosed

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<v Speaker 3>with cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, this is a really good friend.

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<v Speaker 3>She's telling her best friends that she's found the slump

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<v Speaker 3>in her breast and she's had it tested and it

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<v Speaker 3>is cancer. And then over the next seven years that

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<v Speaker 3>lie grew and grew and grew, and everyone believed that

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<v Speaker 3>she had staged four terminal cancer. That you know, she

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<v Speaker 3>was about to leave two children without a mum, that

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<v Speaker 3>they were you know, they were helping her plan her

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<v Speaker 3>funeral and where her ashes would be scattered, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>doing things for her kids and planning on how they

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<v Speaker 3>would help look after the kids. There was just this

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<v Speaker 3>web of lies of that she was telling different friends

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<v Speaker 3>different things about her treatment and you know, different explanations

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<v Speaker 3>for why she wasn't having chemo and she was having

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<v Speaker 3>this and that, and it just you know, these were

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<v Speaker 3>her best friends and nobody really thought to question her

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<v Speaker 3>on it. You know, she told her children she was dying.

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<v Speaker 3>She was helping them get ready for when mummy wasn't there.

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<v Speaker 3>So they were like, well, you wouldn't do that if

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<v Speaker 3>you weren't really really sick. And she just sucked so

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<v Speaker 3>many people in with this absolute fantasy of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>having cancer, and we now know, and the police have

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<v Speaker 3>said very openly that there is no evidence Nikola Flint

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<v Speaker 3>has ever been diagnosed with cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that incredible? Imagine your friend coming up to you first, first,

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<v Speaker 1>and foremost. There are a lot of people out there

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<v Speaker 1>who have had a friend or a loved one come

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<v Speaker 1>up to them and say and have that conversation and

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<v Speaker 1>say that they have cancer and have those real life

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<v Speaker 1>talks as well. Those friends would have felt completely and

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<v Speaker 1>utterly dumbfounded when they found out. When did it start

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<v Speaker 1>to unravel for her?

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<v Speaker 3>In twenty twenty four, it all started to unravel when

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<v Speaker 3>she was investigated for a lot of money going missing

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<v Speaker 3>from a football club where she was working, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>that sort of came out and she was charged with

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<v Speaker 3>taking one hundred thousand dollars from the football club. And she,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, was saying to the friends, Oh, it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>not what it looks like. I'm innocent. But at the

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<v Speaker 3>same time she fled the country, she went to the UK.

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<v Speaker 3>The friends were still you know, at that point no

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<v Speaker 3>question that this this poor woman, she's so sack and

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<v Speaker 3>now she's got this and you know, and then the

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<v Speaker 3>a friend had found some letters that Nicola had given

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<v Speaker 3>her from a cancer specialist. You know, oh, here's the

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<v Speaker 3>latest update on my condition. And the friend went, what

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<v Speaker 3>if she doesn't have cancer, Let's go back to those

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<v Speaker 3>letters and just see what's what. And she was reading

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<v Speaker 3>through this letter and she's like, I think that I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think this is real. I think this has been

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<v Speaker 3>copying pasted, and the signature didn't look right, and the

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<v Speaker 3>letter had looked funny. So that letter eventually was obtained

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<v Speaker 3>by the police and they checked up and these these

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<v Speaker 3>cancer doctors whose signatures were on these letters were like,

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<v Speaker 3>that's not me. I didn't write that, that's not my

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<v Speaker 3>medical opinion. And as I said, police were able to

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<v Speaker 3>publicly say, there's no evidence Nikola Flint ever was diagnosed

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<v Speaker 3>with cancer. You know, by then, she'd told people early

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<v Speaker 3>on that she had survival cancer, and then it was

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<v Speaker 3>its back and its breast cancer, and she was telling

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<v Speaker 3>people who you know, one of her friends who I

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<v Speaker 3>spoke to, she'd lost her mum to cancer when she

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<v Speaker 3>was a tiny, tiny child, so she'd grown up without

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<v Speaker 3>a mum. And you know, she said to me, I

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<v Speaker 3>know the hole that cancer leaves. And I was never

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<v Speaker 3>going to question a friend, you know, I just wanted

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<v Speaker 3>to support her. There was another friend whose husband had died,

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<v Speaker 3>and Nichola had supported her through her husband dying from cancer.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, and as I said, her children were

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<v Speaker 3>told they were being prepared for when Mom's not here.

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<v Speaker 3>She taught her daughter how to braid her own hair

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<v Speaker 3>for when I'm gone, then you can do it yourself.

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<v Speaker 3>So when the police dropped this bombshell that there's no

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<v Speaker 3>evidence of this woman ever having cancer. Everyone sort of

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<v Speaker 3>just went wow, and the friends started to effectively compare

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<v Speaker 3>notes and realize that all been absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>Lied to and scammed.

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<v Speaker 3>For lack of a better word, but they've all told

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<v Speaker 3>me that Nikola had a way of keeping them separate.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a bit of a divide and conquer.

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<v Speaker 3>She would tell them things about each other to make

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<v Speaker 3>them wary of each other, to make them cautious. She'd

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<v Speaker 3>say things like, oh, well, have you heard this, Chelsea's

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<v Speaker 3>been saying this about you, but don't tell her I

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<v Speaker 3>told you this, or don't tell such and such about

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<v Speaker 3>my latest diagnosis. So all these friends were sort of

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<v Speaker 3>pushed apart and kept apart, so you know, they weren't

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<v Speaker 3>talking amongst each other about Nikola, so where there were

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<v Speaker 3>red flags, they sort of felt guilty for thinking that

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<v Speaker 3>up until police came out and said, well, there is

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<v Speaker 3>no cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting as well.

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<v Speaker 1>People might listen to this and think, how could they

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<v Speaker 1>not have known? Right, and everybody does and that's completely normal.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you've got that trusting relationship with your friend,

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<v Speaker 1>you're being told all of these different things and you're

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<v Speaker 1>given evidence. It seems oh like that of a better word.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you question your friend?

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<v Speaker 3>And this is the thing. These women that I've spoken

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<v Speaker 3>to were her good friends. They considered her family. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>their kids thought each other, they were their second moms,

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<v Speaker 3>and they just there was no question. Your friend comes

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<v Speaker 3>to and says I should have got cancer and you

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<v Speaker 3>don't question that. Yeah, you would go immediately and to say, really,

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<v Speaker 3>do you call that place, have some evidence, let's see

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<v Speaker 3>all of the stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then she did have these letters that backed

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<v Speaker 2>it up.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, she would turn up to things and

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<v Speaker 3>she would have a plaster on her arm because she'd

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<v Speaker 3>had this treatment, or you know, she would be dropped

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<v Speaker 3>off at places or should be booked in for things,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, people were like, well, she's definitely having treatment,

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<v Speaker 3>but no, none of it was true.

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<v Speaker 1>So what has she officially been charged?

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<v Speaker 3>So she's facing around nine charges and the christ which

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<v Speaker 3>just recurt The majority of those are for the theft

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<v Speaker 3>and basically the misappropriation of funds from this football club.

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<v Speaker 3>But there is also a number of charges for forging

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<v Speaker 3>documents and these are the cancer specialist letters and the

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<v Speaker 3>charge is worded that she forged the documents with intent

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<v Speaker 3>to have people believe she had cancer and in some

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<v Speaker 3>cases to obtain financial advantage.

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<v Speaker 2>It is alleged that she used.

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<v Speaker 3>One of the cancer letters to medically retire from Amzi Bank,

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<v Speaker 3>where she'd worked for many years. They paid her eighty

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<v Speaker 3>four thousand dollars in a medical retirement package because she

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<v Speaker 3>had terminal cancer, and so she's charged with fraudulently providing

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<v Speaker 3>them that letter in order to get that money. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think the total of the money that she's accused

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<v Speaker 3>of stealing is one hundred and eighty plus thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 4>I genuinely thought that she had cancer. She would go

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<v Speaker 4>into great detail about some of the symptoms that she

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<v Speaker 4>was experiencing and that were horrific treatments she was having.

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<v Speaker 4>Occasionally there would be a band aid on her forearm

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<v Speaker 4>because she was having treatment. Occasionally you'd think, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 4>really what I remember asking how are you going to

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<v Speaker 4>have chemotherapy? And you know, I was told that the

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<v Speaker 4>type of cancer she had didn't react chemotherapy. And you

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<v Speaker 4>know this went on for years, years like five six seven.

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<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned as well, you've spoken to her friends.

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<v Speaker 1>When speaking to them, how did they come across were

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<v Speaker 1>they anger? I mean, I suppose that they're going through

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<v Speaker 1>all of these stages of grief, right.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, they've been grieving her for years. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>they had you know, her best friend came out from

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<v Speaker 3>the UK and Nikola took her up to Marpu at

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<v Speaker 3>the top of the South Island and they sat and

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<v Speaker 3>she said, this is where my ashes will be scattered.

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<v Speaker 3>So Emma was grieving her for years, and every time

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<v Speaker 3>she left New Zealand, she was like the last time

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to see my childhood best friend. And she

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<v Speaker 3>was racked with guilt and she's always so worried about

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<v Speaker 3>the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you know, when all this came out, she

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<v Speaker 2>just was so angry.

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<v Speaker 3>And a lot of them were bewildered, and a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of them have spoken about you know, they had these

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<v Speaker 3>moments where they sort of think of Nickola and they think, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>that poor woman. Hang on a minute, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 3>some of them have had to retrain the way they

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<v Speaker 3>think about it because they go to this place of

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<v Speaker 3>grief and upset when they think about Nickola, and then

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<v Speaker 3>they're like, hang on, if it was true. Some of

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<v Speaker 3>them still have moments where they think, but what if

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<v Speaker 3>it was, and then they just remember that police officer

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<v Speaker 3>on national television saying there is no evidence Nikola Flint

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<v Speaker 3>was ever diagnosed with cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>They're angry and they're hurt. They just feel really betrayed.

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<v Speaker 3>Some of them, you know, paid for things, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>One friend said that every time she did something with Nicholas,

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<v Speaker 3>she would pay but dinners, lunches, you know, just to

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<v Speaker 3>make sure that was spending her money on cancer treatment.

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<v Speaker 3>Her friend in the UK, the best friend from childhood,

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<v Speaker 3>her parents gave something like thirty thousand pound because Nikola

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<v Speaker 3>had said she didn't have money to pay for a

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<v Speaker 3>cancer top up, which meant she could have unlimited treatment

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<v Speaker 3>in New Zealand and so they when Emma told her

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<v Speaker 3>parents this, the parents went straight and transferred the money

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<v Speaker 3>to New Zealand. So, you know, that's a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>money that was given to her full cancer treatment for

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<v Speaker 3>a disease she just did not have. So her friends

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<v Speaker 3>feel ripped off and they feel foolish. They know that

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<v Speaker 3>it's not their fault, and they know that they were

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<v Speaker 3>you know, they've said they were groomed, and they've talked

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<v Speaker 3>about how manipulative she was, how devious and how clever,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, keeping them all apart and keeping the story separate,

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<v Speaker 3>and making sure that they weren't talking to each other,

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<v Speaker 3>just to keep up this this web of lies how

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<v Speaker 3>they've described it.

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<v Speaker 1>And you can imagine, well, people, and that's no fault

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<v Speaker 1>of their own at all, because I can imagine a

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<v Speaker 1>situation where if I ever a touch would got cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>My best friend's parents would chip in as well. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a completely normal thing to do. When you love someone

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<v Speaker 1>and you're really close to someone, you do anything. You

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<v Speaker 1>would do anything you can.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, cancer is a cruel and hideous disease, and

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<v Speaker 3>if someone that you're close to, you know, is diagnosed,

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<v Speaker 3>then you want to move heaven and earth to make

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<v Speaker 3>sure that you can do everything you can to lighten

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<v Speaker 3>their load. And that's what these friends were doing. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's just they're just so, you know, shocked, outraged that

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<v Speaker 3>they were just taken for such a ride.

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<v Speaker 1>And you've spoken to some family members as well, Hey.

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<v Speaker 3>Her husband's so I've spoken to her husband's sister and

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<v Speaker 3>another member of the family.

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<v Speaker 2>Who are just appalled.

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<v Speaker 3>They had fallen out with Nikola before this cancer diagnosis

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<v Speaker 3>over other lies. They say that we're told and just

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<v Speaker 3>when they heard about the cancer. You know, they were

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<v Speaker 3>reaching out and trying to do what they could, but

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<v Speaker 3>they were suspicious. They've never found her to be an

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<v Speaker 3>honest person, but they never thought, you know, it would

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<v Speaker 3>get this bad. They told they say that she would

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 3>say things like, you know, she grew up in a

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.920
<v Speaker 3>house like Downton Abbey, and you know she was Banker

0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.160
<v Speaker 3>of the Year in Bermuda, where she'd been working, and

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.640
<v Speaker 3>there was just story after story, and they would just think, well,

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.520
<v Speaker 3>most of the time, she's pretty normal. So these weird stories,

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, they're just it's just Nickola. But they're just

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.800
<v Speaker 3>disgusted and what she's done. They're really upset. You know,

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Nicholas fled the country with her husband and kids. They

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 3>just haven't had contact with the kids, and they just

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.040
<v Speaker 3>want the kids to know how much they're loved and

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 3>missed by their family in New Zealand. They want Nicholas

0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.920
<v Speaker 3>husband Andrew to know how much they're loved and missed.

0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 3>And I think that, you know, they've lost lot more

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 3>than just a friend. They've lost contact with people that

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 3>they really really love, and they're pretty angry because they

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 3>feel that that's you know, Nikola has manipulated their family

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 3>away from them.

0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned obviously she fled to the UK. Do

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 1>we have any idea where they are now?

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 2>We believe they're in Wales. She has family living in Wales.

0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>When they first went to the UK, she moved in

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 3>with her best friend Emma and stayed with her for

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 3>a while, still maintaining she was having cancer treatment and

0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.520
<v Speaker 3>that sort of thing. And then they fell out and

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.920
<v Speaker 3>Nicola and Andrew and the kids went to Wales and

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.560
<v Speaker 3>then that's the last Emma's had contact with them, So

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 3>we don't.

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:43.839
<v Speaker 2>Know exactly where they are.

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 3>I've reached out to Nicola and Andrew a number of

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 3>times asking them to get in touch, giving both of

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 3>them the opportunity to have a chat about what's gone on.

0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, if Nicola can't talk about what's happening and

0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.920
<v Speaker 3>with the charges in court, then can she explain the

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 3>cancer diagnosis?

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Can she explained the unexplainable? Really?

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.480
<v Speaker 3>Can she tell people why she's told these stories? And

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 3>there's just been no contact at all.

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 1>So what is the likelihood that she will ever come

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>back to New Zealand and face these charges in christ Church?

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.320
<v Speaker 1>So the people that know her the best say she'll

0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 1>never come back. Why would she.

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 3>There is a warrant out for her arrest, so as

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 3>soon as she comes back to New Zealand, she will

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 3>get arrested. But police have said they weren't extradite. Obviously

0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 3>that's a long, lengthy and costly process and it's just

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 3>not something they're going to look at for this at

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 3>the stage. So I don't, you know, based on what

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 3>the people that know who the best have said, I

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 3>don't think she'll come back, which means, you know, as

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 3>her friends say, they.

0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Feel she's gotten away with it.

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 3>They would like her to come back and answer the

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 3>charges and you know, face up to what she's done allegedly.

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 3>But they just they said there's no reason for her

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 3>to come back.

0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>So thanks for joining us, Anna, thank you.

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 2>That's it for this episode of.

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 1>The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz.

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 1>The Front Page is hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels.

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Caine Dickie is our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 1>and editor, and our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 1>the Front Page on the iheartapp or wherever you get

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts, and join us next time for another look

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>beyond the headlines.