1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,679
Speaker 1: Now, as you well know, the Maori Party punishment debate

2
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,920
Speaker 1: isn't happening. It's been delayed until June fifth. The Leader

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: of the House, Chris Bishop, said it would be wrong

4
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: to deny a party the right to debate the budget.

5
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,959
Speaker 1: Flavel is a former co leader of the Maori Party

6
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,080
Speaker 1: and is with us. Now, Hey, order here, Heather, how

7
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,080
Speaker 1: are you very well? Thank you? Would this all have

8
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 1: happened under you? Is this the kind of party that

9
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: you could have seen it becoming under your leadership?

10
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,240
Speaker 2: I'm not too sure. There are a couple of times

11
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 2: that we definitely tested the boundaries. I remember taking the

12
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,160
Speaker 2: Oaths for example, and talking to the tret away Tony

13
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 2: and that caused a bit of a stir. So over time,

14
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,280
Speaker 2: you know, as we've settled in as a sort of

15
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,880
Speaker 2: an or, as the group has settled into an independent

16
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 2: party that attempts to put and highlight copable Maori in

17
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 2: front of the nation, it's probably inevitable that over time

18
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,279
Speaker 2: these sorts of things would happen because and it's not

19
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 2: new because back in my day, as I say, we

20
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 2: were attempting to press the boundaries through from the clauses

21
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 2: and the treaty true to just today lmighty being spoken

22
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 2: in the house.

23
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I suppose every time you push at a boundary,

24
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 1: and you push at the boundary, it kind of you know,

25
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: we will get more and more as the boundary goes out.

26
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,119
Speaker 1: The thing that you had pressed that made people upset

27
00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 1: is no longer something that makes people upset. But it

28
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: does feel like it's kind of gone a bit far.

29
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 1: If we've got one co leader pulling the gun thing,

30
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,479
Speaker 1: is that another another leader in Parliament? Don't you think?

31
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't necessarily accept that that's

32
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: the case about pulling a gun. I mean, you know,

33
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 2: people stand up in the debating chamber and you've seen

34
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 2: it all yourself. People express themselves in different ways. And

35
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 2: I suppose just in the eye of the holder. And

36
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,040
Speaker 2: does anybody really believe that Debbie is going to really

37
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 2: take up arms against anybody? I don't think so. I mean,

38
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 2: often this is all about expression. I won't talk about

39
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 2: just the thing or whatever it might be, because it's

40
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 2: it's done all the time, even mister Peters.

41
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 1: But you can't other people come on. You can't say

42
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: that's okay because you can't be going around as a

43
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: professional adult pulling gun fingers at each other and thinking

44
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,720
Speaker 1: that that's okay.

45
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: Well I said that, but that that is on the

46
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: basis that somebody believes it was pulling the gun. And

47
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 2: as I say, even mister peters Are from time to

48
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 2: time has been roll to wave his little old finger

49
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 2: in certain directions and so on, as if as if

50
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 2: to do the similar similar actions. So I'm not going

51
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 2: to defend that. The bigger cobopper here is around, you know,

52
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 2: an ability for mari to express their views in the

53
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 2: Parliament of our land and allow that to happen on

54
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 2: the back of what has happened, you know, through history

55
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 2: in parliament and as I say, even in our time

56
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 2: we had to fight hard for the acceptance of mighty

57
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 2: language in parliament. So times have moved on and hakker

58
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 2: is not new in parliament, and yet it seems to

59
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:45,640
Speaker 2: have been blind right.

60
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 1: That's not the problem though, and you know that you're

61
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 1: smart enough to know that's not the problem.

62
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 2: Well it appears to be. And I know belove that,

63
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: come on, you.

64
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: Know you know the rules in parliament. You know that

65
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 1: you can't go and stand within two and a half

66
00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 1: sword links of somebody else which is what they did.

67
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,400
Speaker 1: Had they done the hacker in their own seats after

68
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: the vote was taken, it probably wouldn't be as big

69
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,760
Speaker 1: a deal as it is. But they actually went up

70
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 1: to another MP. And you're not supposed to do that,

71
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: and there's reason why you're not supposed to do that,

72
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,640
Speaker 1: and you know that, Derek.

73
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 2: There are another number of occasions that I've been in

74
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 2: the House, people have stood in the oil and done

75
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 2: the hooker. So moving outside of your boundaries is not new.

76
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 1: And they have they approached a member that close.

77
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,639
Speaker 2: No, the issue was about hakering.

78
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 1: No, it's not, and you know it's not to it

79
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 1: or you know it's not about doing a huker.

80
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 2: Made well, I think it is actually and it's not.

81
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 2: So somebody happens to have taken them argument out to

82
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 2: target mister Sema, although I don't disagree that mister Sema was.

83
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: The targeting teams victim is okay. So if if because

84
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 1: you do realize that there is a separate process altogether here,

85
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: that is considering whether the hacker actually can be done

86
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: in parliament, whether it can be included within Parliament's rules,

87
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 1: you realize that.

88
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 2: Right, no, because there has already been accepted by by

89
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 2: Gingers way back in my day.

90
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 1: So are you telling me thek is okay if the

91
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: hacker happens in parliament, but.

92
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 2: It happens already has been and then we accept.

93
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 1: The hocker is not the problem. It's the advancing on

94
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,159
Speaker 1: a member that's the problem. It's the intimidation.

95
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 2: No, well, that depends on of course, on who you

96
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 2: speak to. And of course they have been sanctioned for

97
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 2: doing the hooker in the house, and that seems to

98
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: be the discussion and the debate. Hokker is not new,

99
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,599
Speaker 2: and hacker is a simple expression of and I suppose

100
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 2: it comes down to an understanding of what people believe

101
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,280
Speaker 2: is you know the purpose of a hakker. I mean,

102
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 2: there's no denying, there's there's an element of what expression

103
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 2: style expression about what one person challenge from t hunter

104
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 2: times a celebration, at other times sadness, grief, happiness, all

105
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 2: of those expressions are contained in hokker all the time.

106
00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 2: And there's no different konga from fai ordle that happens

107
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,039
Speaker 2: on the allow. And I suppose this is the question,

108
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, Heather, that I've sort of tried to focus on,

109
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,840
Speaker 2: that is, you know, the ability to allow copeable Marii

110
00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 2: tiko Mamori in the health, which is absolutely you know,

111
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,159
Speaker 2: in terms of all the rules pretty much follows a

112
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 2: copable Parker how lone. And that's that's the challenge all

113
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 2: the time.

114
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 1: All right to it as always love chatting to you mate,

115
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 1: look after yourself to d or Level, former leader of

116
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 1: the Maori Party, for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.

117
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,920
Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

118
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,159
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio