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Speaker 1: Phil Goff has gone from London. Winston Peters has sacked

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Speaker 1: the High Commissioner over this question. He asked Finland's Foreign

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Speaker 1: Minister during a public q and a at Chatham House.

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Speaker 2: I was rereading Churchill's speech to the House of Commons

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Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty eight after the Munich agreement, and he

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Speaker 2: turned to Chamberlain. He said, you had the choice between

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Speaker 2: war and designer. You chose designer, Yet you will have war.

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Speaker 2: President Trump has restored the bust of Churchill to the

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Speaker 2: Oval Office, but do you think he really understands history?

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Speaker 1: And that's what was all it took for him to

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Speaker 1: lose a very cushy job. Peter says the comments were

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Speaker 1: very disappointing, in fact, deeply disappointing. We've got the head

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Speaker 1: of politics at the University of Otarget with me today,

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Speaker 1: James Headley.

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Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Morning morning, Andrew.

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Speaker 1: So was that really a sackable offense?

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Speaker 3: I think usually it wouldn't be. But Peters was aware

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Speaker 3: that Trump is so sensitive about anybody questioning him that

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Speaker 3: he obviously got fright and thought he had to demonstrate something.

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Speaker 1: Many people have said. The thing is, if you'd said

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Speaker 1: that as a politician. If you'd say that as a

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Speaker 1: New Zealand citizen, as he said that as an ex

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Speaker 1: Prime minister, it would all be fine. But the problem

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Speaker 1: is now he's a diplomat. Is that true?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I agree with that. It was at

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Speaker 3: Chatham House, so we have something called Chatham House rules,

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Speaker 3: which normally means that you can say what you reckoned,

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Speaker 3: it can't be printed or broadcast. But this was actually

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Speaker 3: a public event. It was broadcast fairly obscure event, not

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Speaker 3: usually getting focused from across the globe, but somebody picked

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Speaker 3: up on it and he identified himself as the British

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Speaker 3: High commission as the New Zealand High Commissioner, So it

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Speaker 3: was public and as you say, it was something that

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Speaker 3: as a politician he would have been quite free to

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Speaker 3: see such things. And he was a politician, and I

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Speaker 3: think he did step out of his role there. There's

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Speaker 3: a bit of a it wasn't ye.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's a time and place thing, isn't it. And

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the time and that wasn't the place it appears.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what we have to do is distinguished

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Speaker 3: with what he said and the fact that he said

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Speaker 3: it as High commission in this sensitive time. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I agree with what he said, and I think many

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Speaker 3: people do, probably including in the government. Here. It's as

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Speaker 3: you said the time, all the sensitivity, and we saw

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Speaker 3: publicly how President Trump even humiliates those who seem to

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Speaker 3: challenge him over Ukraine. So I think Whenstan Peters felt

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Speaker 3: for New Zealand's interests, he had to do a public

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Speaker 3: act in response.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's move on, and who and what

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Speaker 1: do we need out of the next High commissioner?

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Speaker 3: Well, possibly a career diplomat, because I think this is

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Speaker 3: the challenge when you have somebody who as a former politician,

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Speaker 3: or sometimes you have people from other aspects of public

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Speaker 3: life who maybe sort of slip into modes that they're

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Speaker 3: not trained to do. So I wouldn't be surprised to

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Speaker 3: see if least a person from emphat or somebody who

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Speaker 3: served in kind of key roles elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: All right, James, enjoy your weekend. Thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: us early this morning. That is James Hidley, who is

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Speaker 1: the head of politics at the Otaga University.

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