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Speaker 1: Luxon landing back in New Zealand any moment now. After

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Speaker 1: the APEX Summit wrapped up in Lima, Peru, New Zealand

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Speaker 1: secured trade deals with Costa Rica, Switzerland and Iceland during

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Speaker 1: the summit, removing tariff on wood and wool products. I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you more about that in a second, because it

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Speaker 1: is quite interesting. Luxon having his first meeting with SHE,

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Speaker 1: his first meeting with the Indonesia, Indonesians, the Vietnamese, Peru, Chile,

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Speaker 1: his first formal meeting with the new Japanese Prime minister,

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Speaker 1: and he said see later Biden Robert Patman's I Target

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Speaker 1: University's International relations expertience with us Live. Good morning, Good

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Speaker 1: morning Ryan, great to have you on the show.

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Speaker 2: Tell me thank you.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of that meeting with Luxon and She?

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Speaker 2: I thought the De Luxe She meeting went as well

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Speaker 2: as could be expected. As mister Luxon quite candidly said,

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Speaker 2: there are real points of convergence, but there's also points

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Speaker 2: of divergence. And amongst his diverging points were the fact

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Speaker 2: that we don't see eye to I on news China's

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Speaker 2: role in the South Pacific see area, and we also

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Speaker 2: don't really see itoy over the utility of ORCUS in

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Speaker 2: the Indo Pacific region. So but putting those points aside,

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Speaker 2: it was I think the meeting went very well and

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Speaker 2: they seem to agree to disagree without the whole thing

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Speaker 2: poisoning the atmosphere. And the fact that mister Luxelm got

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Speaker 2: invited into China within the next few months I think

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Speaker 2: is good because at the time, China remains our biggest

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Speaker 2: trade partner, Unlike the United States. China gave us a

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Speaker 2: free trade agreement, and it's important to consolidate that relationship

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Speaker 2: at a time when the new Trump administration seems poised

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Speaker 2: to impose blanket tariffs on its trading partners.

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Speaker 1: Now they have obviously, the Chinese have expressed concern about

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Speaker 1: ucust Pillar two. They're worried about what it could mean

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Speaker 1: for the region, and it's the US getting into Asia Pacific, etc.

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Speaker 1: And we are on the fence at the monk about

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Speaker 1: signing it. Right, we are saying, still reading the details,

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Speaker 1: still reading the teles, we'll figure it out as we go.

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Speaker 1: What if the US sweetened the deal and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we'll exempt you from trade terrorists if you sign.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a possibility. But you know what, I don't

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Speaker 2: think that there was a signal that mister Luckson gave.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a border concern here. New Zealand, unlike

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Speaker 2: the United States, has a huge state in what's called

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Speaker 2: international rules based or the both insecurity terms and trade terms.

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Speaker 2: We've been very concerned by the undermining of the wto

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Speaker 2: the World Trade Organization by both the Trump administration between

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen twenty twenty and also the Biden administration as well.

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Speaker 2: And mister Trump's protectionism doesn't sit well with our position.

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Speaker 2: So I think we'd be obviously open to negotiation exemption,

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Speaker 2: but I think we'd have a broader concern about mister

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Speaker 2: Trump's protection and having an effect on global trade, in

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Speaker 2: which of course we have a big stake. So in short, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: I think we'd be open to negotiating exemption, but not

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Speaker 2: at the expense of our position of protectionism in general.

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Speaker 1: If we did sign it, how what reaction could we

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Speaker 1: get from China? Because the Ausies have gone are there

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Speaker 1: for opinion for a pound, and they haven't had much

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Speaker 1: a way of a stern reaction in China.

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Speaker 2: But they're in a quality ofly different position to us.

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Speaker 2: They've always been closer to the US, and so China

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Speaker 2: look at them in that regard. And secondly, China's trade relationship.

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Speaker 2: They import a lot of minerals from Australia. They've also

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Speaker 2: had tenser relations with China. They sanctioned them, I think

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty twenty one. So I would hesitate to

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Speaker 2: draw the parallel it China sees New Zealand is much

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Speaker 2: more of an independent player in the Asia Pacific. We've

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Speaker 2: got to make up our own mind. I'm a bit

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Speaker 2: of a skeptic in August myself, but I was struck

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Speaker 2: by the fact that mister Bucks said, on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: he thought it was generally a positive sy on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, he said it may not necessarily be the

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Speaker 2: right thing for New Zeom or implied that. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's keep You're quite right. I think he's keeping his

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Speaker 2: powder dry, so to speak. I think the advent of

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration has really complicated New Zeue's decision making

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Speaker 2: around ORCUS. I mean, after all, many key wes will

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Speaker 2: be upset, whether they are left right or center, if

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Speaker 2: we got even closer to a country was effectively trying

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Speaker 2: to impose tariff on us or some of our.

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Speaker 1: Writtens exactly, which is why you would think. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you were going, if you were going to put

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Speaker 1: pen to paper, you would want some What I would

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Speaker 1: want to assuage me, I would like some sweetener, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much, in the way of an exemption from tariffs.

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Speaker 1: But that's just me. Robert, Thank you very much to you.

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Speaker 1: Analysis is always great to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: That is Professor Attaging Avis, the international relations expert Robert

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Speaker 1: Petman News Talks.

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Speaker 2: He'd be for more from early edition with Ryan brit

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Speaker 2: Listen live to News Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays,

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Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio