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Speaker 1: Ether dupla. See, Ellen, you let me know what you think.

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Speaker 2: Nine two nine who is the text number?

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Speaker 3: As I said, we'll talk to the NATS about what

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Speaker 3: their big thinking is on this after five o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Now on social media.

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Speaker 3: If you didn't already think that it's a bit of

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Speaker 3: a grim place for teenagers, he has a little bit

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Speaker 3: more proof. There's a documentary maker who set out to

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Speaker 3: find what an imaginary thirteen year old girl would get served.

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Speaker 2: Up by the algorithm. None of it's good news.

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Speaker 3: She only liked stuff like funny cat videos and Taylor

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Speaker 3: Swift content, but was really quickly confronted by content about

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Speaker 3: eating disorders and other mental health issues. And that documentary maker,

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Speaker 3: Nadia Maxwell is with us. Hey Nadia, Hey, hey doing

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Speaker 3: I'm very well, thank you?

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Speaker 2: So what did you see?

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Speaker 1: So there was two parts to the experiment.

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Speaker 4: I first started as before the your teen settings came in,

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Speaker 4: and like you said, I was searching.

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Speaker 1: For you know, Taileswift, exercise cats.

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Speaker 4: But really quickly the algorithm let me down a pipeline

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Speaker 4: from exercise videos to what I eaten the day videos

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Speaker 4: to wait us tips and then within four days really

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Speaker 4: heavy eating disorder content.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then Instagram announced, you know, good news where we're

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Speaker 4: bringing in team settings, you know, peace of mind for parents.

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Speaker 1: We've got your backs.

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Speaker 4: So I waited for those to come in, and I

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Speaker 4: revisited the account. So you know, not only was distressing

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Speaker 4: content still prevalent, but even when I reported specific content

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Speaker 4: which clearly breached eating disorder standards by any normal person's standard,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't taken down.

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Speaker 3: So did it get better when they brought in the

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Speaker 3: new safeguards.

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Speaker 4: The only positive difference that I saw was that in

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Speaker 4: part one there was a lot of really over sexualized content,

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Speaker 4: and so that's dropped down. But in terms of kind

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Speaker 4: of the sort of content that you'd want your average

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Speaker 4: thirteen year olds sitting down in front of for hours

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Speaker 4: a day, you know, there's.

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Speaker 1: Just still so much heavy distressing stuff, Nadia.

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Speaker 3: Is it stuff that that is you know you can

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Speaker 3: see that would have a negative effect real eating disorder,

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Speaker 3: like you might be able to see it or was

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Speaker 3: it absolutely heard out?

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Speaker 2: No, this is really bad for a thirteen you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? Is there any great area?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, before the settings came, and definitely there was some

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Speaker 4: really hard out content and of course, you know, the

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Speaker 4: irony is you know, when I was putting together that video,

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Speaker 4: I had to kind of be careful about what clips

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Speaker 4: that I selected because I was hoping that, you know,

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Speaker 4: that the media would pick it up and help me,

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Speaker 4: help me get the story out. And of course we've

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Speaker 4: got broadcasting standards you know, in the real world, but

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Speaker 4: online be can stumble upon this anytime. And part two

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Speaker 4: of the experiment, some of the more heavy eating just

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Speaker 4: sort of content didn't come up straight away, but there

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Speaker 4: was still a lot of like are areta recovery content,

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Speaker 4: which you know, you know, arguably could help somebody in recovery.

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Speaker 4: But this was a thirteen year old who was never

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Speaker 4: looking for this content. I was searching points and liking it.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that the social media companies are actually

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Speaker 3: good guys here, really want to protect the children, or

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Speaker 3: are they just like, actually I don't care, or worse,

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Speaker 3: actually actively sending it to the kids and just trying

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Speaker 3: to pretend that they're doing good things here.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think the problem, you know, is that there's

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Speaker 4: a huge incentive to serve up this distressing content. You know,

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Speaker 4: their model, their model is engagement, and you know this

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Speaker 4: is not really new to us, right, you know, films

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Speaker 4: like Social Dilemma came out in twenty twenty, so we've

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Speaker 4: kind of known this for five years. The whole business

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Speaker 4: model is based on keeping newss on for as long

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Speaker 4: as possible.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's not that they're evil.

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Speaker 4: But their algorithm, which you know is a soul loess algorithm,

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Speaker 4: has figured out that actually, you know what, emotionally charged

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Speaker 4: content keeps kids on long longer.

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Speaker 1: So I know, yeah, so what.

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Speaker 2: Is your problem? What do you reckon? What do you

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Speaker 2: reckon we should do here? Having had a good old

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Speaker 2: look at it, do you reckon we take you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Look, I absolutely think we need to follow Australia's lead

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Speaker 4: and raise the minimum age to sixteen. You know, it's

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Speaker 4: about empowering parents and we need to reset the social

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Speaker 4: norms on this, and I think I do. I really

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Speaker 4: feel strongly that the appetite is different parents. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're all tired of having to have these kind of

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Speaker 4: individual battles in our own homes. Yeah you got kids,

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Speaker 4: I've got two girls, yes to day?

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Speaker 2: Yes, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I My girls aren't on social media.

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Speaker 4: But I would just like to say that, you know,

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Speaker 4: like I've been researching this for eighteen months, so when

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Speaker 4: you're kind of in it every day.

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Speaker 1: It's really it's why you're a lot easier to hold

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Speaker 1: your nerve.

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Speaker 2: You do it, yeah, why you shouldn't apologize for it.

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Speaker 2: You're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, But I but I appreciate that that it's you know,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of against what is the normal at the

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Speaker 4: moment right there. It's really hard because everyone's everyone's yeah everyone,

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Speaker 4: while everyone's kids thrown it right, So it's really hard

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Speaker 4: to yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But like I said, because I'm living and breathing that

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Speaker 4: every day, it's easy to hold my move.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and thank you for talking us. I really appreciate us.

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Speaker 2: Nadia Maxwell documentary Makeup For more.

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Speaker 1: From Heather Dupleasy Allen Drive. Listen live to News Talks

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Speaker 1: at b from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio