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Speaker 1: Right a so called fuel crisis, whereas a logistics exercise

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Speaker 1: is getting quite interesting. I thought, in any way, with

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Speaker 1: unsolicited approaches from foreign players offering to take the tickets

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Speaker 1: we have for Royal and swap them out for fuel,

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Speaker 1: we can actually use. Shane Jones is Associate Administer of Energy,

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Speaker 1: of course, and there's chargeable all of listening's with us.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Hey morning folks.

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Speaker 1: These players that you're dealing with, these unsolicited approaches, who

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Speaker 1: are they and are they legit?

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Speaker 2: No, no, they definitely are legit, but they have to

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Speaker 2: go through an executive process. So in the event we

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Speaker 2: do have to do something with them on behalf of

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Speaker 2: the crown, We're not going to be foolish. Where do

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Speaker 2: they come from? There are people that in the cases

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Speaker 2: that have been in contact with both MBA and ourselves.

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Speaker 2: They're either known to us, they've lived in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: They are kiwis, and the options that they have though

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Speaker 2: don't last long. I don't think many of us kiwis

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Speaker 2: appreciate how data situation is up in parts of Asia.

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Speaker 2: So if there is a ship, if there is an option,

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Speaker 2: then they're gone within seventy two hours.

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought was interesting you're explaining yesterday, so

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Speaker 1: these people ring up and what do they have? Do

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Speaker 1: they have literally our ship or ships?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? They often are very very definite and at a

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Speaker 2: very finicky level, because we've got some pretty exacting standards

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Speaker 2: in order to bring fuel into the country, both access

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Speaker 2: to consignments associated with the refineries. But now that the

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Speaker 2: Aussies have broken cover and apparently they're going to underwrite

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Speaker 2: the importation of fuel, that's got a rush on potential vessels.

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Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a mad scramble. That's not

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Speaker 2: to say that we're giving up on the fuel companies,

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Speaker 2: because they will be substantially punished both legally and financially

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Speaker 2: if they don't live up to their word. And they're

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Speaker 2: the ones who wanted this system so, rightly or wrongly,

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Speaker 2: I took them at their word right and I said, okay,

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Speaker 2: you guys know how to keep New Zealand afloat. But

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Speaker 2: the political downside is that the national security question always

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Speaker 2: remains with the government, not just the commercial company.

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Speaker 1: No exactly, but you've as just reiterate what you said yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I think you've heard nothing from them at all that

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Speaker 1: would give you any pause for thought at the stone.

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Speaker 2: None. Yeah, no, no, not one iota. The difficulty what

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with, mate, even if we were to work

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Speaker 2: with them and underwriters, the Aussies appear to be doing

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Speaker 2: the arrival of greater volumes of fuel. Where are you

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Speaker 2: going to store it? Okay, we've got to have a

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Speaker 2: ship bobbing off the coast of Marsden Point for a while,

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Speaker 2: and then someone's going to pay for that ship to

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Speaker 2: sit there and do nothing while we draw it down.

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Speaker 2: But all of this is traceable back. And there's an

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Speaker 2: old saying that there's an old saying that old sins

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Speaker 2: cast long shadows. And the reality is, once we close

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Speaker 2: down the refinery, we're stuck with an adequate storage.

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Speaker 1: Yes we are, asumably we're going to fix that over time.

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Speaker 1: But for the here and now, these people who have

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Speaker 1: approached you prices and margins, are you paying through the nose?

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Speaker 1: Is that why they're doing business or is their proper

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Speaker 1: business to be done?

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Speaker 2: No. The difficulty we've got is that the feedstock that

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Speaker 2: sustains all of the refineries in the Asia Pacific region

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Speaker 2: largely comes from the Middle East. So for as long

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Speaker 2: as there's a disruptiveness in the supply. They've managed to

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Speaker 2: say afloat by using the cushion. They already have our hat,

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Speaker 2: shall I say. And then they had access to some

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Speaker 2: of the vessels with Iranian fuel because obviously the President

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Speaker 2: of America allowed that to happen. And then they've been

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Speaker 2: able to get access to Russian stuff. Then we released

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Speaker 2: keywis our government with the rest of the world four

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Speaker 2: hundred million barrels. Now that's all being soaked through the system.

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Speaker 2: Now we've got to work out are we going to

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Speaker 2: be at the front of the queue? Can we work

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Speaker 2: effectively with independent parties and work constructively with the existing

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Speaker 2: fuel importers to ensure that we don't run out. But

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Speaker 2: a lot of this is traceable. I have to tell

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Speaker 2: you again to these grengoons who believe that by deprecating

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Speaker 2: demonizing fossil fuel somehow you're going to make New Zealand safer.

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Speaker 2: And as I said, you know, old screw ups cast

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Speaker 2: long shadows.

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Speaker 1: Bro Yes they do. How agile are the people we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with in terms of Singapore, Malaysia and Korea in

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Speaker 1: their ability to go to different markets like America, like Canada,

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Speaker 1: South America and Africa to get different source.

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Speaker 2: No doubt they are doing that as we speak. But

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Speaker 2: what we've been warned by the people that we know

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Speaker 2: in Singapore and people that I've dealt with in my

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Speaker 2: rather forlorn attempt to bring them back to New Zealand

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Speaker 2: to redevelop the gas industry after that was canceled by Jacinda,

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Speaker 2: that political fugitive from electoral justice. They are warning us

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Speaker 2: that the refineries have largely become decked out to cope

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Speaker 2: with feedstock from the Middle East, so there'll be some

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Speaker 2: transitional work they all have to do in order to

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Speaker 2: enjoy substitution options.

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan says the last shipments for this country are

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Speaker 1: likely to arrive twenty of April. Do they know that

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Speaker 1: or are they making that up? And do you know that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they're just modeling that is not consistent with

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Speaker 2: what we've been told by Mobile BP or AMPOL. But

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Speaker 2: I just want Kiwis to bear in mind, this is

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Speaker 2: the model that these guys wanted. Now rightly or wrongly,

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Speaker 2: Kiwis and various governments said, okay, we'll trust this model

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Speaker 2: of the international oil companies arriving just in time. So

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Speaker 2: there is a bit you know, they're doing the best

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Speaker 2: they can, and they're staying within the law and they're

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Speaker 2: observing their obligations as we speact. But there's lots of

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Speaker 2: modeling happening thing about America. Mike. It's going to bear

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Speaker 2: in mind. It'll take, according to our fuel study report,

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Speaker 2: which is published through the MBI website, up to forty

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Speaker 2: seven days on a good day to get fuel from America,

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Speaker 2: And if we were to rely upon them and get

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Speaker 2: them to process the fuel stocks that we have in

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Speaker 2: terms of virtual fuel through the ticket system, it could

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Speaker 2: be up to one hundred days. So we cannot afford

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Speaker 2: to sit back.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know whether this is disgusted at cabinet,

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Speaker 1: and even if it is, you wouldn't tell me. But

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Speaker 1: do are you aware or are we aware as a

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Speaker 1: country through diplomatic channels, of whether America cares less about

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Speaker 1: you know, most of Asia and countries like us in

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Speaker 1: terms of access to oil. In other words, are they

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Speaker 1: interested in our plight or the global plight economically, or

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Speaker 1: they're too busy looking after themselves and fighting a war.

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Speaker 2: Well, the ideology is called America First, so they don't care. Well,

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Speaker 2: I've never had anyone assure me from the oil industry

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Speaker 2: that they have access to a better option from America.

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Speaker 2: They have focused on multiple other sources for the feedstocks.

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Speaker 2: We are going to work with the International Economic Agency

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Speaker 2: to redeem our options, which will give US nine hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty million liters of fuel. It is stored in Japan,

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Speaker 2: stored in America. However, those options will require refining, and

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Speaker 2: our refineries are located in Singapore, Malaysia and Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 2: so it's a substantial logistical exercise. But fortunately there's some

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Speaker 2: fellow minded Kiwis who of their own volition have reached

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Speaker 2: out both to my office and I suspect a lot

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Speaker 2: to Nicola, who are really keen to ensure that tiwis

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Speaker 2: moved through this transition. I mean, it's difficult to avoid

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Speaker 2: catastrophizing it, but the reality is these are large, global,

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Speaker 2: sophisticated companies and today they have assured us that they

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Speaker 2: are continually able to observe their fuel obligations and bring

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Speaker 2: fuel to New Zealand. We're just being proac In the

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Speaker 2: event a circumstances emerge that we have to use the

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Speaker 2: sovereign powers of our government, then we will do so.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time as Allway Shane Jones, who is the

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Speaker 1: Associate Minister of Energy. You reassured by that. For more

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Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks

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