1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: For the third year in a row, the New Zealand 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: rugby unions lost money. This time it's nineteen point five million. 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: They have rolled out plenty of defense. There's record revenue 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: coming in, good reserves of course, not a cash loss, 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: but a loss is a loss. So what's the plan. 6 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Mark Robinson is the ends at our boss and he's 7 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: with us. Mark, good morning, Boding make when does you 8 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: stop losing money? 9 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 2: Well? The other question could be, you know, when do 10 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: we say. 11 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: About how about we do with my question, when do 12 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: you stop losing money? 13 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: Well, well, we're always working towards a break even or 14 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: better position, and that's what we've achieved this year. You 15 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: are right in your intro and saying that put aside 16 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: and look at the adjusted result. If not for the 17 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: investment choice we made three years ago, which the whole 18 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: game agreed to when we did Project Future, and then 19 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: a late swing in effects right at the end of 20 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: the year, we were to break even. So the model 21 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: is improving if you look at the last or four years. 22 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: As you take the three years and the year before that, 23 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: we've generated over over a billion dollars and you put 24 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: to side the investment we've made over forty million dollars 25 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: into shoring up our stakeholders, so direct investment into the players, 26 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: provincial unions, superclubs and all our other partners And you 27 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: look at the investment we've made into the digital and 28 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: content space and this effect shift. Like I say, you 29 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: put that to the side. The deficit's been just under 30 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: six million dollars as an operating business across that time, 31 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: So you know you have to take into account the 32 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: fact here, Mike, when you look around the world, especially 33 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 2: in rugby, a lot of these losses are just straight 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: on sort of keeping lights on and getting the groceries 35 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: and all the basics. We are actually making choices to 36 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: make investment and growth for the future here, and you 37 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: can see some green shoots coming through as it relates 38 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: to Toyota signing this week, we hope some We've got 39 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: some other announcements in the next few months around partnerships, 40 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: so are definitely signaling now that our improved reach digitally, 41 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: both domestically and internationally is starting to pay dividends. 42 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: So it's top of the replacement for any awesome terms 43 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: of dollars. 44 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 2: Look, the properties are different, aren't they. So we've got 45 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: Toyota coming in as a as a partner on our 46 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: training kit, and we are working through a potential partnership 47 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: on the shorts. So anyos had both of those properties. 48 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so are you close to a deal or you 49 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: can't say that on the rest of it on that we're. 50 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: Working We're always I think I've said this through the 51 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: discussions with any of us in the first quarter of 52 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: the year. We are always having conversations with partners, be 53 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 2: they existing ones, and making sure those relationships are really 54 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: strong and with the possibility of increasing and improving those 55 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: in terms of value or potential new ones. So that's 56 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: you know, that's the case. And as I say, i'd 57 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: like to think in the next sort of while we've 58 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: got more to say as it relates to those other properties. 59 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: We have anybody that you can announce this. 60 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: Year, Well that's what're working on. Yeah, and we're. 61 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: Working on don't so currently don't. I'm just trying to 62 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: work out how hard is to go to the international 63 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: market to get an international name to get on then 64 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: an all black jersey, and whether or not there's it's 65 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: slim pickings out there. 66 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think by the fact that we've been able 67 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: to find Toyota as a partnership is a strong signal 68 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: that the interest is really strong. And I said that 69 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: right through, you know, from January onwards, I've been signaling 70 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: that that is evidence of that, and there'll be future 71 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: announcements may soon. I just can't put an exact date 72 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: on those. Minds. 73 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: The money, here's my concern, and I don't have a 74 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: vested interest other than being a fan. When you're bringing 75 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: in more revenue than you ever have, which you are 76 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: so well done, and you're still losing money, something's broken. 77 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And we've been also very clear around that too, 78 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: And the conversations we've had for several years now is 79 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: that as the business grows and the scale increases and 80 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: revenues can continue to lift, of which we're confident of 81 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: continue to achieve, the fundamental funding frameworks we have around 82 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: the game need to be looked at. So that's what 83 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: this next six months is about. We've always signaled that 84 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: this is the year to try and look at the 85 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: way our funding agreements work with provincial unions, it was 86 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: the players, and through this course we have a whole 87 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: lot of things lining up for us to be able 88 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: to do that. Where those agreements come to an end 89 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: and need to be looked at. So look, we've had 90 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: a great couple of days in Wellington where we did 91 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 2: have all those stakeholders I just mentioned and others in 92 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: the rooms and that we were having meetings in and 93 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: we had some really good conversations about what the next 94 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: six months could look like. And I think the game 95 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: is aligned about the possibility. If we can do that, 96 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: then we're going to be in a fantastic space going forward. 97 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: In simple terms, you said yesterday we need to have 98 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: a financially sustainable model. Do you have a financially sustainable 99 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: model as you sit and talk to me right now? 100 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Breaking up? My I got you, Mike, Do. 101 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: You have a financially sustainable model as you sit here 102 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: talking to me right now. 103 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: Look, we've got a lot of work going on to 104 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: be able to present to the board at the end 105 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: of this month on what the model could look like. 106 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: And it could take a whole number of sort of 107 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: shapes and sizes and all that sort of thing. But 108 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: then ultimately is the beauty of sport and national sporting organization. 109 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: This is all about partnership and consensus eventually, so we 110 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: have to be able to get back in the room 111 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: with our stakeholders and partners and be able to work 112 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: through those models with them. So yeah, I mean there's 113 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: loads of ideas as to what the model could look 114 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: like and we just have to take our time and 115 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: work through this. But the pointers might be enough revenue 116 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: in the game and we continue to drive revenue. It's 117 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: just how it's a portion and allocated. And that's why 118 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: having a strategy that we clearly articulated to stakeholders yesterday, 119 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: aligning with that strategy where everyone can sive themselves in 120 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: that strategy, and then allocating resource on that basis and 121 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: a sustainable model is the key. 122 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, Mark Robinson, who is the New Zealand 123 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: Rugby CEO. 124 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: What did your line break up? Just there? 125 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 126 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 127 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.