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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talk zed be

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on

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Speaker 2: There be good discussion. And to tie this in a

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Speaker 2: bow is New Zealand Drug Foundation Executive Director Sarah Helm. Sarah,

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Speaker 2: very good to chat with you this afternoon, Koy, how

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Speaker 2: you going good?

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Speaker 1: Thanks? What do you think of the Colombian president's claims

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Speaker 1: that cocaine is no worse than whiskey?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I don't know about you, but whiskey has

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Speaker 3: never done me any favous. I think, Look, Cisley, Columbia

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Speaker 3: has a totally different context from us. They have you know,

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Speaker 3: some figures put it over half a million people have

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Speaker 3: died from the war on cocaine and drugs there, and

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Speaker 3: you know, a plant coca that a lot of their

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Speaker 3: indigenous people would consered sacred with the small husband banned

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Speaker 3: from the war on drugs, and they're desperately trying in

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Speaker 3: that war on drugs in Columbia. So I think that's

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Speaker 3: in a very different context that he's making those comments.

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Speaker 3: And certainly history would tell us that there have been economic, political,

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Speaker 3: and cultural reasons as to how various substances have been

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Speaker 3: treated by legislation and laws that don't necessarily stack up

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Speaker 3: to the level of harm or help us address harm.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think there is some truth, but also

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Speaker 3: important context and what he's saying, Yeah, I'm saying, But Sarah,

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Speaker 3: what if we did bring it back home to New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about decriminalization of cocaine and New

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Speaker 1: Zealand on balance? Do you think that would be more

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Speaker 1: harm or less harm than the situation we've got now?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think it all depends on how these

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Speaker 3: things are done. So legislation and say, take alcohol, for example,

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Speaker 3: our legislative framework is so permissive that we've got you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of too much alcohol and society causing quite a

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Speaker 3: lot of m So in our context, it's absolutely undeniable

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Speaker 3: that alcohol causes the most harm in New Zealand overall,

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Speaker 3: and partly because it's just really available, but also because

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Speaker 3: it's got so many you know, a range of harm.

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Speaker 3: So if you think about it, things like harm to

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Speaker 3: yourself over a period of time, cancer, heart disease going on, wait,

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Speaker 3: then harmed to other people, violent offending, car accidents and

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Speaker 3: family violence and all that kind of stuff. So there's

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Speaker 3: a lot in alcohol. But they're both substances that can

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Speaker 3: be addictive and can and do cause harm, so really

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Speaker 3: important points.

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Speaker 1: So Sarah, we're talking to see Helman from the New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Drug Foundation. Do you what do you what do

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Speaker 1: you think cocaine use because the stats say that it's

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Speaker 1: it's doubling. What do you think cocaine use is increasing

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Speaker 1: so much in New Zealand? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Look at has I mean historically we've barely had any

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Speaker 3: cocaine what most people will be aware of. It's been

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Speaker 3: limited to a very small group of Auckland is primarily

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Speaker 3: getting their hands on it, and therefore it's got a

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Speaker 3: bit of a glamorous reputation, but actually there are some

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Speaker 3: harms with that. And the increase in supply is basically

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Speaker 3: internationally the product producers of cocaine have become much more

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Speaker 3: efficient at producing cocaine, so the production levels have gone up.

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Speaker 3: I think it was like thirty percent in one year alone.

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Speaker 3: So we've seen a glot of it and therefore it

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Speaker 3: then pushed into markets where it hasn't really been before.

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Speaker 1: That is it true that New Zealand has targeted for

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Speaker 1: cocaine sales because it's so profitable selling it here because

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's more expensive to buy it here.

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Speaker 1: You can charge more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, yes, Sana, I think the prices come down.

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Speaker 3: I think it's actually competitive or even cheaper them. We've

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Speaker 3: been better man from memory at the moment, so the

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Speaker 3: prices actually come down. But definitely some of the substances

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Speaker 3: have included attracts a higher price here. And as one

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Speaker 3: of the reasons, there are some specific arms with cocaine

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Speaker 3: that people should be aware.

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Speaker 2: I know you've done some surveys. The Drug Foundation is

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Speaker 2: done survey on cocaine usage within the country and the

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Speaker 2: wastewater testing. But is it far more prevalent than most

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Speaker 2: people would realize.

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Speaker 3: No, it's still only a small percentage of people, so,

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Speaker 3: you know drug use. Overall, almost every New Zealanders tried alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Many most New Zealanders continue to use alcohol regularly. Most

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Speaker 3: New Zealanders have tried cannabis. A smaller percentage go want

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Speaker 3: and use it regularly and with a sort of MDMA cocaine,

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Speaker 3: which that's quite different from MDMA in some ways. But

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Speaker 3: that's a smaller group. So it's only a few percent

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Speaker 3: that use that in any one year. But a bigger

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Speaker 3: percentage have actually tried, so it's not completely unusual to

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Speaker 3: use it either.

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Speaker 1: Cocaine usage. Yeah, so cocaine use in terms of the

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Speaker 1: things that the drug use in New Zealanders worry about

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Speaker 1: or need to worry about, as near the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the pile, sort.

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Speaker 3: Of, I do. I mean, we are witnessing quite a

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Speaker 3: significant growth in our cocaine consumption, and I think we

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Speaker 3: can't ignore that. I don't. I think that trend we're

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Speaker 3: expecting to continue unless we do something about it. So,

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Speaker 3: and it does have some harms with it. For example,

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Speaker 3: one then people might not be aware of is that

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Speaker 3: it has a very specific compulsive readosing effects. So you know,

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Speaker 3: when you finish a drink, you can't want another one

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Speaker 3: because your glass is empty with cocaine they've tested on

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Speaker 3: wrapped and they just keep wanting to take it because

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Speaker 3: there's actually this additional phenomenon in your body where you

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Speaker 3: just really want more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating stuff. Sarah, Thank you very much for joining

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Speaker 2: us on the program to have a chat. Interesting discussion.

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Speaker 1: Certainly was for more from News Talk set B listen

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