1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,120
Speaker 1: Well, last time she was on the program, she promised

2
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: a suite of change to the workplace and yesterday was

3
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: your headline. Graver and overhaul of the pay equity system

4
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,399
Speaker 1: are almost pasted, sort of pass partially passed last night

5
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 1: under urgency. The rest goes today. As far as I

6
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: understand it, current claims are off. Brook van Velden, Minister

7
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,159
Speaker 1: of Workplace Relations, is with it's very good morning to you.

8
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,280
Speaker 2: Good morning mate. Lit a bit of heat.

9
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: Yesterday on the grounds of Parliament. Is there more where

10
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 1: that came from? Do you suspect?

11
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,319
Speaker 2: Well, Look, I think there'll be some people who have

12
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 2: strong feelings, especially people who have been trying to negotiate claims.

13
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 2: But what I would say is I think it's better

14
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,160
Speaker 2: for everybody that we've got the system right and everybody

15
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 2: still has the opportunity to bring a claim into the future.

16
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 2: It's just that the current government doesn't believe that we've

17
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 2: got those settings right that we can genuinely hand on.

18
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,560
Speaker 2: Heart's say, the outcome of these claims is to rectify

19
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 2: genuine systemic sex based undervaluation. We believe with muddy the

20
00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,880
Speaker 2: waters with other collective bargaining things like inflation in other

21
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 2: labor market forces. And I think anybody who supports women

22
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 2: at work, which I do, should support us trying to

23
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 2: identify genuine systemic sex based undervaluation.

24
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 1: And there's your problem. You can't, as much as I

25
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 1: support what you're trying to do, because what we're doing

26
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800
Speaker 1: currently is wrong. You can't because you will never compare

27
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 1: apples with apples. The comparators don't work.

28
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 2: It is always going to be difficult. You're right, but

29
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 2: the government is committed to having a system for pay equity.

30
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 2: Where we have made some moves as a government is

31
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 2: how to tighten those thresholds so we can have greater

32
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 2: confidence that we were landing is on genuine sex based discrimination.

33
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,960
Speaker 2: So I'll give you a couple of examples of how

34
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 2: we've tightened it to make the system have more confidence.

35
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 2: At the moment, people can choose a comparator for sex

36
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 2: based discrimination across the entire workforce. We're saying, let's start

37
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: firstly at home. If you can find people within your

38
00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 2: own employer, that would be a good starting point. Comparison

39
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 2: can't be made with a similar employer. That comparison's not

40
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 2: there within your industry. If you can't find one there

41
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,560
Speaker 2: you've got to stop. You can't fish for discrimination.

42
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: Well, why don't you just hard, Why don't you just

43
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 1: be honest about it? You can't. I mean, this Christine

44
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 1: Bartlett thing started out. Everybody loves people who works and

45
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,639
Speaker 1: work in wress simes. They're kind, they're loving, they're there

46
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: for the right reasons. They don't happen to get paid

47
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Comparing them to mechanics was pointless.

48
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 1: It's stupid. Teachers are the same. Teachers are teachers. They're

49
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 1: not worth comparing to anything else in the world. You

50
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 1: either want to be a teacher or you don't. It

51
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 1: is what it is. And you're still trying to jurymander

52
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,640
Speaker 1: with the system.

53
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a bit of history that goes

54
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 2: back here. So we've had the equal pay system for

55
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,359
Speaker 2: a while. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with this

56
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 2: that if you've got men and women doing the exact

57
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 2: same job, the same that's not what you're talking about though, No,

58
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 2: that's not. But there was a High Court case that

59
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,239
Speaker 2: the National government in twenty seventeen which to then put

60
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 2: into law to have a process for pay equity. So

61
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 2: that's the basis here. This has been supported as a

62
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 2: pay equity system from National and labor. What I've done

63
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 2: as an act minister has come along and said, Okay,

64
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,400
Speaker 2: I don't think we've got those settings right. How do

65
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 2: I feel confidence that we can tidy it up so

66
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 2: we have better confidence that where we are landing with

67
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 2: these settlements, were actually finding genuine cases of discrimination based

68
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 2: on set.

69
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 1: Well, I wish you well with that. When we talk

70
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 1: about the savings, though, I don't want to get bogged

71
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 1: down on this. Do you know what the savings are

72
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 1: and they will come out in the budget or is

73
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: this guesswork?

74
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 2: Look, all of the budget numbers are sensitive, and I ask,

75
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 2: but do you.

76
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: Have a number? Is there an actual number?

77
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: I have been provided a number, but I can't talk

78
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 2: about it. No.

79
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 1: No, of course I don't want you to do. All

80
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm asking is I don't know how you've got a

81
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,119
Speaker 1: number for something that you're still inventing.

82
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 2: Well, we have been provided a number. I'm sure only

83
00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 2: after a few sleeps we'll be able to talk about it.

84
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 2: But all I can say at this point is it

85
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 2: is in the billions of figures and it will make

86
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: a significant cost reduction to the Crown.

87
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure it will, or I appreciate it very much.

88
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 1: Brooklyn building a workplace ministry. For more from the Mic

89
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.

90
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 2: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

91
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio