1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: Now, as you know, it's been a lot of chat 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: lately about shaking up the public service. It's been reported 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: there are plans to merge the Ministry for Women, Pacific 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Peoples and Disabled People into other ministries and also this 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: week the New Zealand Initiative recommended cutting the number of 6 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: departments by half. Now, Sir Brian Roach is the Public 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Service Commissioner. 8 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Hi, Brian Goody, how are you well? 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Thank you? So tell us are you getting rid of 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: the Ministry for Women and the Pacific People's Ministry and 11 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: the Ministry for Disabled People? 12 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: No, that is not part of the plan. What the 13 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: plan is designed to do is actually amalgamate existing agencies 14 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: to give them scale and give them resilience so they 15 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: have greater impact in the system. There is a view 16 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: which I share that there are some agencies which are 17 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: below critical mass, it's no fold of their own and 18 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: we need to actually strengthen them and that's what we're 19 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: going to do. But their brands will continue. 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Right, So these three are you going to put them together? 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: You're merging them. 22 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: It is one of a number of proposals which we're 23 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: still looking through. So like I'm not making any public 24 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: announcements about who's in and who's out. But I was 25 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: asked to look at better ways of running the public 26 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: sector to get greater efficiency, greater sense of purpose and 27 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: better customer citizen outcomes. And that's what I've been doing. 28 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: If you merge them, do you merge the people's, the 29 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: population ministries together or do you merge them into something bigger. 30 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: The first thing is to merge them, is to consolidate 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: to catch the scale that's required to be resilient. So 32 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: you know where they all end up. And you know, 33 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: I know this is incredibly unsettling for people, but it's 34 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: unsettling to be doing what they're currently doing with ongoing 35 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: budget cuts. They are reality of our life and we 36 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: have to find a new way of conducting our business. 37 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: And so are you just looking at these three that 38 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: have gone public or are you actually open to something 39 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: as big as the New Zealand Initiative has suggested. 40 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: All options remain on the table. I mean, the initiative 41 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: is one world view. I think these things have to evolve. 42 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: I don't look at this being a big bang in 43 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: my own personal view, and these ultimately, these are decisions 44 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: of ministers. I think we need to make some decisions 45 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: about where we want to be in five years time 46 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: and actually orientate the system towards that we don't want 47 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: to go through big slash burn downsizing. Those things are 48 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: debilitating and I don't see those as being required at 49 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: this point. 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: Do you not think that, if you're doing this right, 51 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: if you are taking a big old look at it, 52 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: and you're considering all options, should we not also add 53 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: in the possibility that some of these ministries are no 54 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: longer required and we should scrap some of them. I 55 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: would argue the Ministry for Women. 56 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an argument that ministers will have. I'm playing 57 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: with the cards that I've got. Those ministries are seen 58 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 2: as critical. Their voice and the policy debate, and their 59 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: voice to ensure that agencies are recognizing those constituencies remain 60 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: part of my claim cards. 61 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: Have you managed to get everybody back to work, back 62 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: into the office. 63 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't, unfortunately, But you know, we've talked 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: about this previously. Having people working from home makes sense 65 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: in some circumstances, but overwhelmingly fifty percent of public servants 66 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: don't get that option. So, based on my personal experience, 67 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: I think we have a very high number of people 68 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: in the office. 69 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: And so what's the roadblock. Why haven't you been able 70 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: to get them back in. 71 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: Because there are legitimate reasons for people to be working 72 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: from home. And you know, the whole policy that's some 73 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: objected to was you don't have it as of rights. 74 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: You do it with the authority of your Like, what you're. 75 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: Saying is you're comfortable with the situation as it is. 76 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: I am comfortable with it, but I think you know, 77 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: if you look globally, a number of businesses have said 78 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: you've got to be in the office every day. We 79 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: are not of that mind. We don't think that's a 80 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: point we need to get to. 81 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: Brian Listen, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, Sir 82 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: Brian Wroach, Public Service Commissioner. For more from Heather Duplessy 83 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to News Talks at b from 84 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.