WEBVTT - David Seymour talks Opposition, regulation and backlash as he becomes Deputy Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Kiota.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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<v Speaker 2>daily podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Presented by the New Zealand Herald.

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<v Speaker 2>ACT Party leader David Seymour will become a New Zealand's

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<v Speaker 2>Deputy Prime Minister tomorrow, taking over from Winston Peters. Will

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<v Speaker 2>be the nineteenth person to be the country's second in command.

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<v Speaker 2>First elected to Parliament in twenty fourteen, the last decade

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<v Speaker 2>and a bit has seen Seymour's meteoric rise from being

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<v Speaker 2>his party's sole mpte now sitting alongside ten colleagues after

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<v Speaker 2>Act's best ever result in the twenty twenty three election.

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<v Speaker 2>That result has allowed him to push through big changes

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<v Speaker 2>around issues like regulation and government spending, but championing legislations

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<v Speaker 2>such as the Treaty Principles Bill has also made him

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<v Speaker 2>a lightning rod for controversy and backlash. Today, on the

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<v Speaker 2>Front Page Age, Seymour joins us to talk about his

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<v Speaker 2>new role. Backlash has faced, regulations and his thoughts on

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<v Speaker 2>the opposition. So, David, this Deputy Prime minister handover has

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<v Speaker 2>been on the cards for some time now.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you excited about this change?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Look, it's one of those things you probably didn't

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<v Speaker 3>think would happen in your life, but here we are.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's good for New Zeland. Shows a few

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<v Speaker 3>bit quirky, but if your heart's in the right place

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<v Speaker 3>and you put in the work, you know it's crowded house,

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<v Speaker 3>so you can get somewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>And can you believe it's come around so quickly?

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<v Speaker 4>Though?

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<v Speaker 1>As well?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's just one of those times in life

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<v Speaker 3>where you know, everything goes at a million miles an hour.

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<v Speaker 3>Idea reading on Sunday, kebinet on Monday, caucus on Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 3>question time on Wednesday, go campaigning on Thursday, ipsom on Friday,

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<v Speaker 3>have Saturday off and rinse and repeat. It's pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>what it's been like for the last seventy weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you expect this to be a shift in power

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<v Speaker 2>in the coalition? Is act in the front seat now

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<v Speaker 2>alongside National or has it been kind of a three

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<v Speaker 2>way from the get go?

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<v Speaker 3>No? I don't think so. The coalition is a very

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<v Speaker 3>respectful one. Everyone has a role to play, everyone has

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<v Speaker 3>their own interest. I don't think it's fair to say

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<v Speaker 3>that New Zealand First have been in any way leading

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<v Speaker 3>actors a larger party, and that has been the case

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<v Speaker 3>for the last eighteen months and will be for the

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<v Speaker 3>next eighteen months.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you happy how the coalitions work together?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I think the coalition has been dangerously united. Our

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<v Speaker 3>opponents thought it would all fall.

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<v Speaker 1>Apart, the Coalition of chaos.

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<v Speaker 3>Well they said all those things, didn't they, But they

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<v Speaker 3>underestimated that even though we're all quite different, we're all

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<v Speaker 3>quite committed to trying to dig New Zealand out of

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty big hole. And look where the crime race, relations,

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<v Speaker 3>cost of living, the healthcare system. I mean, hell, there's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of shoffling to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Winston Peters has ruled out working with the Chris Hepkins permanently.

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<v Speaker 1>What about you? Would you roll out working with Hepkins?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the difference is I don't need to say it. Look,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is a guy who was the Police

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<v Speaker 3>Minister when the crime got out of control. He was

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<v Speaker 3>in charge of the COVID response, which speaks for itself.

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<v Speaker 3>He was the Minister of Education when kids stopped going

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<v Speaker 3>to school on mass and he was the Minister of

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<v Speaker 3>Health when the health budget went up sixty percent and

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<v Speaker 3>the outcomes got worse. So you know, this guy has

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<v Speaker 3>got the opposite of the Midas touch I think they

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<v Speaker 3>call him a pooh midas and he's suddenly done some damage.

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<v Speaker 1>So you wouldn't work with him?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, no, because that would require him to be working,

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<v Speaker 3>and as far as I can see, he doesn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there anyone else that you wouldn't work with that

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<v Speaker 2>you'd rule out working with?

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<v Speaker 3>I am constantly astonished that our country has a political

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<v Speaker 3>party that is named for a race of people that

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<v Speaker 3>cast everything in racial terms and is somehow given a

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<v Speaker 3>free pass. Funnily enough, the fact that Tiparty Maori held

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<v Speaker 3>to a lower standard, not just by other politicians, not

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<v Speaker 3>just by the media, but actually by themselves, I think

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<v Speaker 3>is really shameful, and we need to start working towards

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<v Speaker 3>a vision of New Zealand as a nation of human

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<v Speaker 3>beings with hopes and dreams, rather than different collectives sharing

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<v Speaker 3>common ancestry and forever divided, which seems to be their

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<v Speaker 3>vision of Tonga Tongua Ta Titi are different partners and

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<v Speaker 3>on each side of a compact. It's never worked anywhere

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<v Speaker 3>in the world, but it's been disastrous where it's gone wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, speaking of the Treaty Principal's bill, I mean, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure you're sick of talking about it.

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<v Speaker 3>But no, no, not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>We haven't had you on since the bill was actually

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<v Speaker 2>officially voted down. Are you surprised by how much backlash

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<v Speaker 2>there was towards the bill over the last year.

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<v Speaker 3>Not at all. We took on a direction in this

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<v Speaker 3>country which is toxic and corrosive, but also quite profitable

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<v Speaker 3>for a lot of people. If you think about John Tamaheri,

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<v Speaker 3>who is behind Toyitu Teti, which is really just the

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<v Speaker 3>Maldi party, who makes a huge amount of money through

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<v Speaker 3>the ypered Aida Trust. They're a major provider. My experience

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<v Speaker 3>of working with him is that he believes that they

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<v Speaker 3>should not be accountable for what they deliver on behalf

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<v Speaker 3>of the taxpayer, because the treaty elevates them above accountability

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<v Speaker 3>to the crown. They're rather a partner to the crown.

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<v Speaker 3>I had this whole experience with John Tammaheadak signing up

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<v Speaker 3>to run a partnership school or charter school kudahodu call

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<v Speaker 3>it what you will, and then trying to renegotiate the

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<v Speaker 3>contract at the last minute for no accountability. Now, if

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<v Speaker 3>you're a person who believes that you basically are a

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<v Speaker 3>parallel state, that you are not accountable to the same

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<v Speaker 3>government and crown and taxpayer as everyone else. Then, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>when someone comes along with a treaty principal spill that says, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>guess what, folks were all equal. You don't like that

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<v Speaker 3>very much. And I look at some of those people

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<v Speaker 3>who came and gave submissions, know how many of them

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<v Speaker 3>are lawyers or advocates advocate casing in a world where

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<v Speaker 3>as a treaty partner, some people have different rights from others.

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<v Speaker 3>Then I come along and say, guess what, folks, everyone

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<v Speaker 3>has equal rights. That will get you a backlash. But

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of the day, because a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the opponents were covering for I guess vested interests that

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<v Speaker 3>they masqueraded as moral principle, they weren't able to put

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<v Speaker 3>forward convincing arguments. And you watch that debate on the

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<v Speaker 3>second reading. Yeah, we lost the vote, but we won

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<v Speaker 3>the argument because nobody who was against the bill said

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<v Speaker 3>the bill says X, I don't believe X, because Y,

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<v Speaker 3>I instead believe that New Zealand should be run according

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<v Speaker 3>to Z. You didn't hear that X, y Z. You

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<v Speaker 3>just heard lots of Haystien rhetoric. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 3>the idea that Parliament has the rights to make laws,

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<v Speaker 3>that Parliament and the government have the obligation to uphold

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<v Speaker 3>all people's rights and duties, and that all people's rights

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<v Speaker 3>and duties are equal. Those three principles weren't No one

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<v Speaker 3>laid a glove on them.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we had British philosopher ac Grailing on the podcast

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<v Speaker 2>a few weeks ago when he was here for the Writers' Festival.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, to treat people equally is not always to

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<v Speaker 2>treat them fairly.

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<v Speaker 4>If you had an Olympic athlete who needed five thousand

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<v Speaker 4>calories a day and you had a little old lady

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<v Speaker 4>who needed fifteen hundred calories a day, and you forced

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<v Speaker 4>them to eat the same number of calories let's say

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<v Speaker 4>three thousand calories a day each, you're unfair to both.

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<v Speaker 4>You're treating them equally, but you're unfair to both. Equity

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<v Speaker 4>or fairness is the goal, not just crude equality. However,

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<v Speaker 4>equality matters when it comes to what are sometimes called

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<v Speaker 4>equality of concern. So people should be treated equally before

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<v Speaker 4>the law.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, how would you respond to that?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I know that act believes the bill promises equal

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<v Speaker 2>rights for all new Zealanders.

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<v Speaker 1>But would that still be fair?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I went to see Ac Grayling because I actually

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<v Speaker 3>quoted his book Towards the Light of Liberty in my

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<v Speaker 3>maiden statement to Parliament, and I was so disappointed with

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<v Speaker 3>the speech he gave his I think in the last

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<v Speaker 3>ten to fifteen years he's deteriorated from being quite a

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<v Speaker 3>principal person to an apologist, which is a real shame

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<v Speaker 3>because I quoted him in my speech first speech to Parliament. However,

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<v Speaker 3>putting him aside, it's possible to address inequities amongst people

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<v Speaker 3>without categorizing us into racial groups. I just give you

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<v Speaker 3>one little example. We have recently changed beow cancer screening

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<v Speaker 3>from sixty years old for European people and fifty years

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<v Speaker 3>old for Mara and Pacific people to just fifty eight

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<v Speaker 3>for all people. And why because the data is really

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<v Speaker 3>clear people have the same chance of contracting bowl cancer

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<v Speaker 3>for any given age, regardless of their ancestry. So not

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<v Speaker 3>only are we better targeting need because fifty nine year

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<v Speaker 3>olds and fifty eight year olds who are European and

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<v Speaker 3>have the same risk now gets access, we are also

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<v Speaker 3>removing the sickness of having to partition the population based

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<v Speaker 3>on their ancestry. I don't want that aickiness. I just

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<v Speaker 3>want to treat each person as a fallow human being

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<v Speaker 3>and deal with people based on their actual need rather

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<v Speaker 3>than their ancestry.

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<v Speaker 2>There are worse health outcomes though, for Mali and Pacifica

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<v Speaker 2>in certain circumstances.

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<v Speaker 3>Though, isn't there that is true? But you've said something

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<v Speaker 3>that you may not have realized. You've also said that

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<v Speaker 3>your preferred lens for partitioning human beings is race. Actually,

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<v Speaker 3>there are differences between rich and poor. There are differences

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<v Speaker 3>based on education. There are differences based on whether people

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<v Speaker 3>choose to spoke crites. There are differences based on dietary

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<v Speaker 3>There are so many different ways that you can categorize people.

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<v Speaker 3>I just reject choosing one which is quite clumsy, quite icky,

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<v Speaker 3>and doesn't actually get us to target the people in

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<v Speaker 3>greatest need.

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<v Speaker 2>If we move on to the budget twenty twenty five, now,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like a key message from this budget was

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<v Speaker 2>that people need to do more for themselves. So look

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<v Speaker 2>at the key we saver change is that seems to

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<v Speaker 2>be signaling that people need to do a bit more

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<v Speaker 2>for themselves to save for retirement, rather than relying on

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<v Speaker 2>the government contributions.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that a fair takeaway, Well, it's probably a clarification

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<v Speaker 3>of the situation. You see before people were getting the

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<v Speaker 3>five hundred and twenty dollars, but it was all being borrowed.

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<v Speaker 3>Every extra dollar the government spends at the moment is

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<v Speaker 3>part of the deficit, and therefore the Debt Management Office

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<v Speaker 3>at the Treasury has to go out to the market

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<v Speaker 3>and say, will you loan us some money? Now, sure

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<v Speaker 3>it feels like something was being done for you because

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<v Speaker 3>you were getting that five hundred and twenty dollars, but

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<v Speaker 3>also your future tax bill or money that's not available

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<v Speaker 3>for your future healthcare or some other benefit, it was

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<v Speaker 3>also being taken away. You may not have heard of

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<v Speaker 3>the debt Management officer, Tree's true, but that's where it

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<v Speaker 3>was happening. So I think what we've really done, rather

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<v Speaker 3>than saying making people more reliant on themselves, we've just

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<v Speaker 3>made it more transparent that the government cannot actually solve

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<v Speaker 3>as many problems as may have been promised under our predecessors.

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<v Speaker 2>The Regulatory Standards Bill is the next big bill from

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<v Speaker 2>the act Party.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I see you grinning. This is a big

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<v Speaker 1>area for you.

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<v Speaker 2>As regulations Minister, it's going through Parliament at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you explain what it is to people who may

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<v Speaker 2>have only heard of it in passing?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure? Well, go back to our core problem. Why are

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<v Speaker 3>we poor? We are compared with Australia, in fact, compared

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<v Speaker 3>with most of the Pacific RIM. We are a comparatively

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<v Speaker 3>poor country and that hits in so many ways. Only

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<v Speaker 3>to go through them all, but it dispirits people. It's

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<v Speaker 3>the younger people leaving the country, and particularly when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to housing poverty, you're being able to afford your

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<v Speaker 3>own place. So that isn't my view. Our big problem

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<v Speaker 3>has two basic kinds of activity. One is taxing and

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<v Speaker 3>spending money. So we just talked a bit about that,

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<v Speaker 3>and we have a pretty good system for publishing the accounts,

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<v Speaker 3>showing people who's responsible for what, and what results are

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<v Speaker 3>they getting and how much data are they taking on them.

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<v Speaker 3>You may not agree with everything the government does, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's pretty easy to find out. It's pretty easy for

0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.760
<v Speaker 3>the media to report it, pretty easy for voters to

0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.559
<v Speaker 3>make decisions if they like it or don't like it.

0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 3>The other thing that the government can do, apart from

0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 3>taking your money, taxing it and then spending it on stuff.

0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Is it can make rules for how you use the

0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.200
<v Speaker 3>property that you still own. Are you what it hasn't taxed?

0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 3>And I would argue that power of making rules about

0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 3>who can lend money to who, how you can run

0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.400
<v Speaker 3>a daycare, how you can develop your property, who can

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 3>build a water treatment plant, to build a new subdivision,

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 3>whatever it is, those rule making powers, I would argue,

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 3>you have a bigger effect on our long term productivity

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.320
<v Speaker 3>and prosperity and ultimately how long we live and how

0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.320
<v Speaker 3>healthy and wealthy we are effect than the government spending money.

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think this government spending money is important,

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.680
<v Speaker 3>but regulating your property is more important. All we're trying

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.439
<v Speaker 3>to do with the regulatory standard spill is have a

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 3>similar framework where you know, if our government makes a law,

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.319
<v Speaker 3>it's got to publish the effects of it on your property,

0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 3>on your liberties, got to state what problem it was

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 3>trying to solve, and why I thought this was the

0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 3>best solution. It's really just making sure that voters can

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 3>start to get a handle on the impact of regulation

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.280
<v Speaker 3>as easily as they can on spending.

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.319
<v Speaker 2>So how much would the build cost per anim across

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 2>an estimated twenty years. I'm sure you saw that reporting

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>from the Herald last week. It said that it was

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty million per anim what of officials that the Ministry

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of Regulation actually said, well, that's true.

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean that's from the Ministry for Regulations analysis. If

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.080
<v Speaker 3>you start making the bureaucracy analyze the rules that it's

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.559
<v Speaker 3>pushing on people, it'll cost twenty million to do it.

0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.719
<v Speaker 3>And then the criticism has been well, what will the

0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 3>benefits of that be? And the truth is, it's very

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 3>hard to calculate, but we know that the benefits are

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 3>going to be much greater than the cost for the

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 3>simple reason that if it's going to cost this much

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 3>money just for the bureaucracy to write up and monitor

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.520
<v Speaker 3>the rules it's making, imagine the cost of all the

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.680
<v Speaker 3>poor buggers out there that have to follow the rules.

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.199
<v Speaker 2>Are there many jobs that are going to be like

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 2>I can imagine that a lot of consultancy firms and

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>everything like that making pretty big bank over these kind

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of regulatory changes.

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'll just give you one example. I mean that

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 3>the estimate of the town planning industry is one point

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 3>three billion dollars a year, So to put that in perspective,

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 3>that's sixty five times the twenty million we just talked

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 3>about just in one area, which is resource management. That

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 3>the cost of this red tape and regulation is enormous,

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 3>but that's actually a tiny portion of the overall cost

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 3>the real cost of that urban planning industry, and my

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 3>view is not for the cost for the projects that

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 3>go ahead. It's the projects that don't go ahead. And

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 3>when pros don't go ahead, there's less supply of housing,

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 3>and when there's less supply, the price goes up for

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 3>what remains. And so the real cost to a younger

0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 3>generation of New Zealanders of bad regulation and land use

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 3>development make it more expensive to put in place of

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.120
<v Speaker 3>water treatment plant, et cetera, is incalculable. So anything we

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 3>can do to get some transparency around regulation making I

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.920
<v Speaker 3>believe we'll have a major payoff, just basically getting the

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 3>country's mojo back and making a few things, especially housing,

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 3>more affordable.

0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 5>I think, you know, I think New Zealand is a

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 5>right to be concerned that democracy will be under threat.

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 5>David Seymour's Deputy Prime Ministy doesn't it, ever, so he

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 5>doesn't have any respect for basic democratic norms, doesn't have

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.160
<v Speaker 5>any respect for the idea that people should ever say

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 5>on the law changes that affect them. This government seems

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 5>to think that everything can be passed through with no scrutiny,

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, just ram it through under agency and hope

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 5>no one notices. Like cutting the future paychecks of women

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 5>who have been claiming pay equity, pushed that through hope

0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 5>no one notices. And David Seymour is right at the

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 5>heart of that, as regulatory rules should apply to everybody

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 5>else except for him. Almost everything he does seems to

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 5>be exempt from the high principles that he seems to

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 5>espouse for other people.

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you ever feel like people have just got it

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 2>in for you because you read comments online? I mean,

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>you go to a comedy show, you talk to people

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>in the street, and it feels like a lot of

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.040
<v Speaker 2>people are blaming you personally for a lot of tension

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 2>that the government faces.

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:28.840
<v Speaker 1>What do you reckon about that?

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I get that. I think there's a couple of

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 3>reasons for it. One is that a lot of what

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.240
<v Speaker 3>AX proposes is for the government to do less, and

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 3>people assume that if we want the government to do less,

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.080
<v Speaker 3>it's because we disagree with underlying intention. So, for example,

0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 3>I look at a minimum wage. I want everyone to

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 3>be rich. I want everyone to be paid more. I

0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 3>just happen to think that the government making a law

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 3>saying people have to be paid more is silly. It

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 3>can't really work. If it did work, we'd make it

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 3>much higher, but it's just kind of a pantomime. We

0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 3>make it about as high as we can without too

0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 3>many people getting priced out of having a job at all.

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.640
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's a silly law. Then people say, oh, well,

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 3>David Seama obviously wants poor people to be paid less. No,

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't. I just don't think that the solution that

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 3>people have cu up with is a very good one.

0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 3>But people mix it up with the intention simply healthy homes.

0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.400
<v Speaker 3>I know of people who have homes that they could

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.719
<v Speaker 3>be renting out where a person could live, but doesn't.

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 3>It's been made illegal to rent it out. They've looked

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 3>at the cost of upgrading it to healthy homes, that

0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 3>they're not doing it, and as a result, people are

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.600
<v Speaker 3>actually missing out. So I think healthy homes are silly.

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 3>I think people want to go to renovate their homes

0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.199
<v Speaker 3>as much as they can afford, and when they can

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 3>afford to do it, better, they'll do some more. Why

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.320
<v Speaker 3>make a law? But people say, oh, well, David Seymour wants,

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, people to live in drafting No. I don't

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 3>want people to live in drafting homes. I just think

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 3>the solution. So I think it's a big part of

0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 3>the problems because we're often opposed to the government's solution.

0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.680
<v Speaker 3>People think we're opposed to the intention. I think the

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 3>other reason is that I don't do conformity. I unashamably

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 3>o me. I'm quirky, I am going to I believe

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 3>I have a good heart and I work hard, but

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to be myself and I'm not going to apologize.

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 3>And I think in New Zealand, you know, that's a

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 3>dangerous way to be because sometimes one of the things

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't like so much about our culture, which I

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.400
<v Speaker 3>mostly love, is that we tend to value conformity over truth.

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.200
<v Speaker 3>And I don't do conformity for the sake of it. Plus,

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 3>as a bonus, I'm actually providing a huge public service

0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 3>because I am providing the left and the losers and

0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 3>many in the media, and sometimes I repeat myself with

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 3>something they desperately need after their election loss, and that

0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 3>is someone to blame. You're welcome And.

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Finally, David, you're going to be Deputy PM. As we

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 2>head into the next election, are you in planning more

0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:41.000
<v Speaker 2>for twenty twenty six yet?

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Well both, I mean you start planning for the next

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 3>election a day after the election. That's just the reality

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.800
<v Speaker 3>of what they call the continuous campaign. However, it's also

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.359
<v Speaker 3>true that take the job really seriously. Are going to

0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.159
<v Speaker 3>be a good deputy for christ and for New Zealand.

0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.879
<v Speaker 3>And I think one of the best things I can

0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 3>do for the next election as show people that if

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.440
<v Speaker 3>you like X ideas, you also have competent operators that

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:07.040
<v Speaker 3>you can work with.

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, David.

0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.159
<v Speaker 2>That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 2>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 2>at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 2>produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 2>our sound engineer.

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm Chelsea Daniels.

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 2>look behind the headlines.