1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: We ring Auckland University this week because it occurred to 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: me that no one seems to be holding them to 3 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: account for this cluster. There's their y pathatour Marta Rah course, right. 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: So they made it compulsory, you know the story. They 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: made it compulsory and ideologically driven first, as it turns out, 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: a complete waste of time. Given the pushback was so great, 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: they've now made it voluntary. 8 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: Now. 9 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: The problem here was for your domestic student they charged 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: one thousand bucks with this nonsense. For the foreign student 11 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: they charged five thousand, seven hundred dollars. And it sudden 12 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: occurred to me, I thought, I wonder if you get 13 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: your money back on a waste of time like that. Anyway, 14 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: we rang them. They said there's no refund going on. 15 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: So anyway. David Seymour is AC Party Leader, Deputy Prime 16 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: Minister and Associate Education Ministries with us. Good morning, good 17 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: morning mate. Can they hide behind independence? So in other words, 18 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: no one can do anything about this. They can cock 19 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: it up to the level they have and that's just life. 20 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Unfortunately in this case it is I think ultimately 21 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: having universities that are independents have their own counsel and 22 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: chart their own path as better. In the long run, 23 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to be more a dictatory royal country 24 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: where you know, one organization, the government, or even one 25 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: person just is this is the way it's going to be. 26 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: But clearly in this case, just like a lot of 27 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: other institutions that have been completely captured and hijacked, and 28 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: instead of empowering, New Zealand is to live their best life, 29 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: to be capable so that they can go out and 30 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: businesses and hire people and be hired just as Nichola 31 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: was saying a moment ago, they've gone down a rabbit 32 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: hole of trying to force a worldview on other people, 33 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: in this case using their own money. And I might 34 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: add the only reason it's cheaper for domestic students is 35 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: that the tax payers subsidized domestic students. 36 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: Now and that's the problem though, So you paid for it, 37 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: we paid for it. We've all paid for it. What 38 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: about the blowback for the government of the reputational damage 39 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: you're trying to get people coming into the country. Some 40 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: of them have forked out five and a half thousand 41 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: dollars for nothing. 42 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: Well, that's that's the sadness of this whole thing. And 43 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: you know, Paramjet Parma, one of A's MPs, who has 44 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: I think quite brave led the charge on has taken 45 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: a huge amount of abuse, which in itself is part 46 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: of the problem. I think the reason this stuff happens 47 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: is that it seems most people are fearful to speak up. 48 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: But she has, and she said they should refund it, 49 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: and they could actually just say, look, well, we're not 50 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: going to give you cash back, but we will give 51 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: you credit for another course that you actually choose because 52 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: you judge it to be useful to your future, not 53 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: because we've decided to hijack your future for our political purpose. 54 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: Is there an upside in the sense that a lesson 55 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: might have been learned by other universities They've looked at 56 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: this blow up in their face and gone, we'll never 57 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: go there again. Therefore we've learned something. 58 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like there is a change going on. 59 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 2: If you've cast your mind back three or four years, 60 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: a course like this being introduced, being made compulsory would 61 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: have had full acquiescence, if not vocal support from the 62 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: governments of the day. Nobody would have been courageous enough 63 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: to stand up to it. The media would have pounced 64 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: on anybody that did for the most part, and it 65 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: just wouldn't have changed that it actually has changed, and 66 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people will be setting up 67 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: and taking notice. It's also while true that university councils 68 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: are independent, and I ultimately believe they should be, a 69 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: portion of the appointments are made by government. We actually 70 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: haven't made any appointments to Auckland. It's just the way 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: the cycle goes. But we will very soon. And that's 72 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: another way that an elected government can inject some fresh 73 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: thinking and accountability into these institutions. While they maintain the 74 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: ability to make their own decisions. We can add a 75 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: flavor to that. And you're starting to see that change. 76 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: Still a lot of frustration. There'll still be people who say, 77 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: you know, my council or this government department is still 78 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: doing this thing that actually doesn't make the boat go faster. 79 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: It's more about compulsion than even in Mari culture. But nonetheless, 80 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: I do think we've got to chalk up the history 81 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: curriculum that's changed for schools last week, the fact that 82 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: we are no longer putting treaty obligations on school boards, 83 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: and also this reversal at the University of Auckland. I'm 84 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: very proud that we are actually driving New Zealand's culture 85 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: back to an outward looking place where each person can 86 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: succeed on their own terms rather than be part of 87 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: somebody else's political projects. And cowdon to fear against picking 88 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: up against it. 89 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: Exactly well, so appreciate it very much. David Seymore, I'll 90 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: tell you what is apparent in this last decade, including COVID, 91 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: the damage done to the young people of this country 92 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: is almost incalculable, and the Auckland University ideology is a 93 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: major major part of that. 94 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 95 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 96 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.