1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:17,013 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:20,893 Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle of. 4 00:00:20,933 --> 00:00:32,493 Speaker 3: Dry Dickney Sco. Please try these packet. 5 00:00:29,093 --> 00:00:33,373 Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with 6 00:00:33,533 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by News Talks EDB. 7 00:00:37,413 --> 00:00:41,173 Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty 8 00:00:41,333 --> 00:00:46,373 Speaker 3: five years in business. Elliott Smith with me Liam Napier, 9 00:00:46,453 --> 00:00:50,613 Speaker 3: back for one last time in season twenty twenty five. Liam, 10 00:00:50,733 --> 00:00:55,133 Speaker 3: good to catch up. As always, It's been a couple 11 00:00:55,173 --> 00:00:57,973 Speaker 3: of weeks since we got behind the podcast microphones. We 12 00:00:58,053 --> 00:01:00,613 Speaker 3: had the all Black Speeding Wales and we took some 13 00:01:00,733 --> 00:01:02,853 Speaker 3: time to wrist and recover and here we are back 14 00:01:03,093 --> 00:01:06,093 Speaker 3: for one last time. As I said, anything you want 15 00:01:06,133 --> 00:01:08,053 Speaker 3: to touch on from the Welsh performance before we get 16 00:01:08,093 --> 00:01:09,173 Speaker 3: into the podcast itself. 17 00:01:09,613 --> 00:01:11,973 Speaker 2: One last rides. Oh look, it was great to be 18 00:01:12,093 --> 00:01:19,173 Speaker 2: backing Sunny Cardiff had a great week there. The match 19 00:01:19,213 --> 00:01:23,133 Speaker 2: itself probably went as expected, didn't it. The team that 20 00:01:23,293 --> 00:01:27,333 Speaker 2: was rolled out a lot of opportunities handed. I think 21 00:01:27,373 --> 00:01:30,613 Speaker 2: it probably summed up the year in some ways. While 22 00:01:30,613 --> 00:01:33,573 Speaker 2: I was scoring the second most points in history against 23 00:01:33,573 --> 00:01:35,733 Speaker 2: the All Blacks, the All Black's running up a bit 24 00:01:35,773 --> 00:01:38,733 Speaker 2: of a score. I don't know if there was too 25 00:01:38,853 --> 00:01:40,613 Speaker 2: much you could take out of it for the context 26 00:01:40,653 --> 00:01:41,133 Speaker 2: of the season. 27 00:01:41,173 --> 00:01:41,453 Speaker 4: It was. 28 00:01:43,133 --> 00:01:46,653 Speaker 2: A pretty somber week, a bit of an edgy week 29 00:01:47,133 --> 00:01:51,053 Speaker 2: from a media perspective with the All Blacks and the 30 00:01:51,133 --> 00:01:54,093 Speaker 2: recriminations I guess had sort of started post Twickenham, so 31 00:01:54,653 --> 00:01:56,253 Speaker 2: I'm sure get stuck into a bit of that. 32 00:01:56,493 --> 00:01:57,853 Speaker 3: Well list did that now before we get to the 33 00:01:57,893 --> 00:02:01,453 Speaker 3: World Cup draw and the All Blacks finishing the year 34 00:02:01,533 --> 00:02:05,173 Speaker 3: with a ten W three loss record. There's been a 35 00:02:05,253 --> 00:02:08,333 Speaker 3: lot of articles written in the last couple of weeks 36 00:02:08,613 --> 00:02:11,773 Speaker 3: about where to next for this All Blacks team. Do 37 00:02:11,893 --> 00:02:14,373 Speaker 3: they need to change the coaching lineup, do they need 38 00:02:14,453 --> 00:02:17,773 Speaker 3: to make drastic changes? Where do you sit at this 39 00:02:17,853 --> 00:02:19,613 Speaker 3: point in time, because I think there has to be 40 00:02:19,773 --> 00:02:23,253 Speaker 3: some form of change. I think you'd struggle to make 41 00:02:23,293 --> 00:02:27,173 Speaker 3: compelling arguments that they're contracted to win that series the 42 00:02:27,253 --> 00:02:30,333 Speaker 3: greatest rivalry next year. I think you'd struggle to go 43 00:02:31,133 --> 00:02:33,653 Speaker 3: that there'd be able to progress past the Rugby World 44 00:02:33,653 --> 00:02:35,413 Speaker 3: Cup quarter final, which we'll get to, as I said 45 00:02:35,613 --> 00:02:38,253 Speaker 3: in a few moments time. So have there been enough 46 00:02:38,253 --> 00:02:40,893 Speaker 3: improvements from this All Blacks team, and do you think 47 00:02:41,773 --> 00:02:43,693 Speaker 3: there needs to be some change as we move towards 48 00:02:43,773 --> 00:02:44,533 Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. 49 00:02:45,293 --> 00:02:48,093 Speaker 2: Well, let's unpack. I guess year two and that record. 50 00:02:48,133 --> 00:02:53,373 Speaker 2: They're ten and three. It's probably knots as good as 51 00:02:53,413 --> 00:02:55,093 Speaker 2: it sounds to a degree. I don't want to be 52 00:02:55,253 --> 00:03:00,413 Speaker 2: totally negative, so we'll talk some positives. But July France 53 00:03:00,493 --> 00:03:02,333 Speaker 2: in our very sick and string team, the All Blacks 54 00:03:02,333 --> 00:03:04,413 Speaker 2: ands and rugby had nothing to do with that. You 55 00:03:04,493 --> 00:03:06,253 Speaker 2: can only play who's in front of you. But there's 56 00:03:06,333 --> 00:03:10,053 Speaker 2: three victories straight off the bat. The All Blacks had 57 00:03:10,093 --> 00:03:13,173 Speaker 2: some challenges there as well, so look in the context 58 00:03:13,253 --> 00:03:16,733 Speaker 2: of the year. The notable wins were the spring Box 59 00:03:16,773 --> 00:03:19,653 Speaker 2: at Eden Park, and it's easy to forget the cacophony 60 00:03:19,693 --> 00:03:23,213 Speaker 2: of criticism and the intense backdrop around that following the 61 00:03:23,333 --> 00:03:26,133 Speaker 2: first loss in Argentina. So that was a big tick, 62 00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:29,333 Speaker 2: a big win for Scott Robinson at the time back's 63 00:03:29,453 --> 00:03:32,893 Speaker 2: massively pressed to the wall. The victory over Ireland in 64 00:03:32,973 --> 00:03:36,973 Speaker 2: Chicago the other probably notable one. And then the three 65 00:03:37,053 --> 00:03:41,333 Speaker 2: losses stand out, don't they not just for the defeats 66 00:03:41,373 --> 00:03:44,533 Speaker 2: but the nature of them and when I look over 67 00:03:44,573 --> 00:03:47,573 Speaker 2: the course of the All Black Sea, I think I 68 00:03:47,733 --> 00:03:51,773 Speaker 2: can't see a case for progress. I think depth has 69 00:03:51,813 --> 00:03:55,453 Speaker 2: been grown in some areas in most areas, and Robinson 70 00:03:55,733 --> 00:04:00,053 Speaker 2: has progressed his four four four plan. But when you 71 00:04:00,133 --> 00:04:02,573 Speaker 2: look at that England performance that's the ultimate match of 72 00:04:02,613 --> 00:04:05,213 Speaker 2: the year. Yes, the All Blacks are missing some big 73 00:04:06,093 --> 00:04:09,733 Speaker 2: outs from an injury perspective would have made a difference. 74 00:04:10,693 --> 00:04:13,453 Speaker 2: But I just I can't shake the sense of stagnation 75 00:04:14,733 --> 00:04:17,413 Speaker 2: and even coming home from the tour and speaking to 76 00:04:17,453 --> 00:04:22,693 Speaker 2: people around the team involved the team. I also think 77 00:04:22,773 --> 00:04:26,813 Speaker 2: about two assistant coaches from that group leaving voluntarily with 78 00:04:26,973 --> 00:04:30,973 Speaker 2: no with no job to go to. I've heard growing 79 00:04:33,013 --> 00:04:39,093 Speaker 2: murmurs of unhappiness from the playing group senior players that 80 00:04:40,893 --> 00:04:46,813 Speaker 2: the nots satisfied with communication, trust strategy. So I do. 81 00:04:47,613 --> 00:04:49,493 Speaker 2: I have come to the conclusion that I do feel 82 00:04:49,533 --> 00:04:54,373 Speaker 2: like there are major changes needed, either with the way 83 00:04:54,413 --> 00:04:59,013 Speaker 2: that coaching teams run or personnel. With Jason Holland leaving, 84 00:04:59,573 --> 00:05:03,093 Speaker 2: I think they will look to bring in a high 85 00:05:03,173 --> 00:05:07,653 Speaker 2: ball kicking specialist. For me, that just that that there's 86 00:05:07,733 --> 00:05:11,653 Speaker 2: not going to be an enough to really push and 87 00:05:11,773 --> 00:05:14,373 Speaker 2: transform the team and make the changes that are needed. 88 00:05:14,813 --> 00:05:16,773 Speaker 3: I think you're right. We've talked a bit about this 89 00:05:16,893 --> 00:05:19,533 Speaker 3: on the podcast, around the division of labor when Jason 90 00:05:19,613 --> 00:05:22,413 Speaker 3: Holland first left, and whether he was assigned enough to do, 91 00:05:22,453 --> 00:05:24,693 Speaker 3: whether he felt like he had enough to do, whether 92 00:05:24,933 --> 00:05:27,813 Speaker 3: some of the other coaches were taking on too much responsibility. 93 00:05:29,213 --> 00:05:31,933 Speaker 3: And I don't think they've got that right. And you know, naturally, 94 00:05:32,013 --> 00:05:34,653 Speaker 3: when you have a losing record, and they don't have 95 00:05:34,653 --> 00:05:37,733 Speaker 3: a losing record, but they've lost some big games, that's 96 00:05:37,773 --> 00:05:39,253 Speaker 3: when it comes under script and you can run the 97 00:05:39,253 --> 00:05:42,373 Speaker 3: team however you like when you're winning and everything's fantastic, 98 00:05:43,813 --> 00:05:46,813 Speaker 3: but when you're not winning the games that you're expected to, 99 00:05:46,973 --> 00:05:49,973 Speaker 3: that's when you come under some forms of criticism. And 100 00:05:50,053 --> 00:05:52,653 Speaker 3: I think that's only natural from an All Blacks perspective. 101 00:05:52,693 --> 00:05:54,733 Speaker 3: And I don't think, as you say, adding a kicking 102 00:05:54,813 --> 00:05:57,453 Speaker 3: coach is going to be enough to reshape the team, 103 00:05:57,493 --> 00:05:59,773 Speaker 3: because what we've seen in the last two years doesn't 104 00:05:59,813 --> 00:06:02,053 Speaker 3: give you the confidence that they are on the right 105 00:06:02,133 --> 00:06:04,693 Speaker 3: track and they're a moment away from discovering all the answers. 106 00:06:05,013 --> 00:06:07,333 Speaker 3: They've built some depth, and they've done well to do 107 00:06:07,493 --> 00:06:10,293 Speaker 3: that because they haven't had a lot of games against 108 00:06:10,333 --> 00:06:14,453 Speaker 3: tear two opposition that naturally you'd find players give an opportunity, 109 00:06:14,533 --> 00:06:17,253 Speaker 3: so they've had to learn on the run. But I 110 00:06:17,413 --> 00:06:19,973 Speaker 3: also feel as well that they haven't advanced the game plan. 111 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:22,613 Speaker 3: I look at the All Blacks and go, do we 112 00:06:22,733 --> 00:06:24,373 Speaker 3: know the way that the All Blacks want to play? 113 00:06:24,493 --> 00:06:27,133 Speaker 3: Do we know the ideal scenarigo that if they're playing 114 00:06:27,133 --> 00:06:29,213 Speaker 3: their best rugby, this is the shape that the All 115 00:06:29,253 --> 00:06:31,773 Speaker 3: Blacks want to play in. I think we've got half 116 00:06:31,773 --> 00:06:34,653 Speaker 3: an idea. We've seen them use the props as first 117 00:06:34,693 --> 00:06:37,653 Speaker 3: receivers with those soft hands out the back. But to me, 118 00:06:37,773 --> 00:06:42,173 Speaker 3: it feels like the game plan has the players basically 119 00:06:42,253 --> 00:06:46,013 Speaker 3: from standing starts or little motion, whereas Scotland and England 120 00:06:46,053 --> 00:06:49,653 Speaker 3: attack them with players in motion bodies, you know, flying 121 00:06:49,733 --> 00:06:52,373 Speaker 3: through the line, putting the defense under pressure. So I 122 00:06:52,453 --> 00:06:54,653 Speaker 3: don't see the All Blacks having the kind of game 123 00:06:54,693 --> 00:06:57,053 Speaker 3: plan that goes that's All Blacks rugby. That's the way 124 00:06:57,093 --> 00:06:59,253 Speaker 3: they want to plan that on its day is going 125 00:06:59,333 --> 00:07:01,733 Speaker 3: to be good to win, you know, eighty to ninety 126 00:07:01,733 --> 00:07:03,613 Speaker 3: percent of test matches. I just don't see it at 127 00:07:03,653 --> 00:07:05,853 Speaker 3: the moment. So for me, you look at who's controlling 128 00:07:05,933 --> 00:07:09,213 Speaker 3: the game plan and a lot of that's around Scott Hansen, 129 00:07:09,253 --> 00:07:12,053 Speaker 3: who drives a lot of the game plan and there's 130 00:07:12,093 --> 00:07:14,813 Speaker 3: been articles written from New Zealand hero around you know 131 00:07:14,893 --> 00:07:19,333 Speaker 3: how much say he has in the game as well. 132 00:07:19,653 --> 00:07:21,933 Speaker 3: I think potentially you need to look at the game 133 00:07:21,973 --> 00:07:23,533 Speaker 3: plan and go is that the right game plan, who's 134 00:07:23,573 --> 00:07:27,653 Speaker 3: delivering it? And make some tweaks there. I think they 135 00:07:27,773 --> 00:07:33,133 Speaker 3: desperately need some work on, you know, fixing the structure 136 00:07:33,253 --> 00:07:36,973 Speaker 3: of the team, whether it goes back to attacking coach 137 00:07:37,373 --> 00:07:40,373 Speaker 3: or a backs coach Jason Ryan. There is a Fords coach. 138 00:07:40,413 --> 00:07:42,893 Speaker 3: You've got your head coach in Scott Robertson, and divide 139 00:07:42,893 --> 00:07:45,133 Speaker 3: the laborer up a little more evenly. I just don't 140 00:07:45,213 --> 00:07:47,533 Speaker 3: think that that coaching set up is the right one. 141 00:07:47,653 --> 00:07:49,733 Speaker 3: And I've never been a high performance coach and never 142 00:07:49,773 --> 00:07:52,253 Speaker 3: been a high performance athlete. But from the outside looking in, 143 00:07:52,333 --> 00:07:54,173 Speaker 3: I don't think they've got the structure right as it stands. 144 00:07:54,733 --> 00:07:58,453 Speaker 2: No, I agree, Look, there were positives of the All 145 00:07:58,453 --> 00:08:02,293 Speaker 2: Blacks game. The line out was largely a success this year. 146 00:08:02,293 --> 00:08:05,653 Speaker 2: I think Brent Evens inclusion in the coaching team is 147 00:08:05,693 --> 00:08:11,053 Speaker 2: a big tick, particularly when Scott Barrett's Patrick two plot 148 00:08:11,453 --> 00:08:14,733 Speaker 2: and to provide miss large chunks of the season. You know, 149 00:08:14,853 --> 00:08:18,893 Speaker 2: you had Josh Lord's and Fabian Holland come in and 150 00:08:19,293 --> 00:08:22,373 Speaker 2: big responsibility on young shoulders, so the line out worked well. 151 00:08:23,573 --> 00:08:27,493 Speaker 2: I think also from a progression and depth perspective, Fabian 152 00:08:27,573 --> 00:08:32,493 Speaker 2: Holland's Peter Luckeye, Pasilio Tossi or three standouts all in 153 00:08:32,573 --> 00:08:36,693 Speaker 2: the forward pack. But the attack is a massive issue, 154 00:08:37,173 --> 00:08:42,253 Speaker 2: a consistent issue, and New Zealand should be just given 155 00:08:42,533 --> 00:08:47,813 Speaker 2: the mindsets, the approach to the game ball in hands 156 00:08:48,253 --> 00:08:51,613 Speaker 2: USA ball. You know, I don't particularly like the word 157 00:08:51,733 --> 00:08:57,573 Speaker 2: DNA necessarily, but that's how all blacks New Zealand ragby 158 00:08:57,613 --> 00:09:00,173 Speaker 2: players men and women love to play the game and 159 00:09:01,173 --> 00:09:05,493 Speaker 2: they're not harnessing the tools at their exposure. Their attack 160 00:09:05,653 --> 00:09:08,813 Speaker 2: has started all year and so that's a major red flag, 161 00:09:08,853 --> 00:09:11,773 Speaker 2: and it's a major read flag because Liam McDonald was 162 00:09:12,013 --> 00:09:14,813 Speaker 2: the attack coach and he left because he wasn't happy 163 00:09:16,093 --> 00:09:20,453 Speaker 2: Jason Hollands. I don't know this definitively, but I've had 164 00:09:20,493 --> 00:09:23,093 Speaker 2: a number of people say he left because he was 165 00:09:23,133 --> 00:09:26,373 Speaker 2: effectively marginalized and didn't have a great say in the attack. 166 00:09:27,013 --> 00:09:31,493 Speaker 2: So that adds to that portfolio issue. And then you've 167 00:09:31,533 --> 00:09:34,773 Speaker 2: got recurring themes the third quarter fades, so what's happening 168 00:09:34,813 --> 00:09:37,253 Speaker 2: at halftime? Why can't you solve those issues? The high 169 00:09:37,333 --> 00:09:40,533 Speaker 2: ball was another one. I think even the scrum platform, 170 00:09:42,013 --> 00:09:46,573 Speaker 2: the propping stocks are great and there's real depth there, 171 00:09:47,093 --> 00:09:50,293 Speaker 2: but against England and South Africa we're a bit wobbly. 172 00:09:50,493 --> 00:09:53,693 Speaker 2: So major improvements across the board, particularly when you look 173 00:09:53,693 --> 00:09:57,893 Speaker 2: ahead to next year seventeen game program four against the 174 00:09:57,933 --> 00:10:00,773 Speaker 2: World Champions, three of those in South Africa. That's pretty 175 00:10:00,813 --> 00:10:03,893 Speaker 2: daunting right now, I think. And that's the lens with 176 00:10:04,013 --> 00:10:08,293 Speaker 2: which should be viewed. Now, what about this review we've got. 177 00:10:08,893 --> 00:10:10,893 Speaker 2: Mike Anthony is going to be leading it. I'm not 178 00:10:10,973 --> 00:10:13,973 Speaker 2: too sure who else is involved. He's been the head 179 00:10:14,013 --> 00:10:18,613 Speaker 2: of High Performance or the equivalent for a long time. 180 00:10:19,213 --> 00:10:23,973 Speaker 2: He has quite a long existing relationship with Scott Robertson, 181 00:10:24,093 --> 00:10:27,453 Speaker 2: so maybe you'd like a bit more independence involved in 182 00:10:27,533 --> 00:10:31,213 Speaker 2: that review. Mike Anthony was toured with the All Blacks 183 00:10:31,653 --> 00:10:34,413 Speaker 2: on the Grand Slam Tour, so he was getting consistent 184 00:10:34,453 --> 00:10:38,373 Speaker 2: feedback throughout. How do you expect the review to run 185 00:10:38,613 --> 00:10:44,173 Speaker 2: and would you have major concerns if the player feedback 186 00:10:44,533 --> 00:10:49,373 Speaker 2: is as of sort of conveyed it. 187 00:10:49,533 --> 00:10:52,053 Speaker 3: Well we know back in twenty twenty one in Ian 188 00:10:52,093 --> 00:10:54,813 Speaker 3: Foster's ere there was some sharp feedback given around the 189 00:10:54,973 --> 00:10:59,133 Speaker 3: coaching they were getting. And the message that was given 190 00:10:59,173 --> 00:11:01,133 Speaker 3: at the time by some of them was that they 191 00:11:01,133 --> 00:11:03,093 Speaker 3: were getting better coaching at the Super Rugby franchise and 192 00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:04,453 Speaker 3: they were getting an all backs camp. But I mean 193 00:11:04,493 --> 00:11:06,813 Speaker 3: that around some of the detail coaching when you get 194 00:11:06,813 --> 00:11:08,653 Speaker 3: down to the nitty gritty, not so much the head coaching. 195 00:11:08,653 --> 00:11:10,773 Speaker 3: And there's a lot of respect obviously for Ian Foster 196 00:11:11,413 --> 00:11:14,773 Speaker 3: in that playing group, but it was targeted towards the 197 00:11:14,773 --> 00:11:17,493 Speaker 3: assistant coaches. They stayed with the assistant coaches and then 198 00:11:17,853 --> 00:11:19,853 Speaker 3: a few months later had to get rid of them 199 00:11:19,893 --> 00:11:24,293 Speaker 3: and say cyanara to Brad More and John Plumtree. So 200 00:11:25,533 --> 00:11:27,653 Speaker 3: this is a review. They do it at the end 201 00:11:27,693 --> 00:11:30,453 Speaker 3: of every season, so it's not new necessarily, but because 202 00:11:30,453 --> 00:11:32,853 Speaker 3: of the nature and where the All Blacks find themselves, 203 00:11:32,933 --> 00:11:36,413 Speaker 3: it takes on extra importance. And you hope it is honest, 204 00:11:36,453 --> 00:11:38,853 Speaker 3: You hope it's robust. You hope that everything's put out 205 00:11:38,893 --> 00:11:41,533 Speaker 3: on the table because you'd hate to get to another 206 00:11:41,653 --> 00:11:43,933 Speaker 3: year down and go, boy, I wish you made some changes, 207 00:11:44,093 --> 00:11:47,253 Speaker 3: significant changes at the start of twenty twenty six, rather 208 00:11:47,293 --> 00:11:49,733 Speaker 3: than trying to scramble in a start of a World 209 00:11:49,733 --> 00:11:52,373 Speaker 3: Cup year. So you hope it's robust and that everything's 210 00:11:52,413 --> 00:11:55,733 Speaker 3: on the table around the structure of the coaches, whether 211 00:11:55,813 --> 00:11:57,453 Speaker 3: the players you know, need to put a few you know, 212 00:11:57,573 --> 00:11:59,293 Speaker 3: their hands up and say we're not delivering the game 213 00:11:59,373 --> 00:12:01,973 Speaker 3: plan or you know we're not across the details that 214 00:12:02,053 --> 00:12:04,453 Speaker 3: we should be around that, so you know the coach 215 00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:06,373 Speaker 3: is coming for a lot of stick. But there's also 216 00:12:06,453 --> 00:12:09,773 Speaker 3: you know, perhaps some players that need to some accountability 217 00:12:10,093 --> 00:12:12,733 Speaker 3: on the board. I guess whether it'll be a direct 218 00:12:12,813 --> 00:12:16,293 Speaker 3: result from a review is remains to be seen. Whether 219 00:12:16,373 --> 00:12:19,173 Speaker 3: we hear any of the details publicly remains to be seen. 220 00:12:19,253 --> 00:12:23,053 Speaker 3: Sometimes some of those details leak out. But you just 221 00:12:23,133 --> 00:12:26,653 Speaker 3: hope it's open and honest, and if there are recommendations 222 00:12:26,693 --> 00:12:29,893 Speaker 3: for changes, that they're implemented. Because you don't want to 223 00:12:29,933 --> 00:12:32,213 Speaker 3: waste a good crisis. That's what a lot of business 224 00:12:32,293 --> 00:12:35,413 Speaker 3: leaders say. This isn't a crisis necessarily, but again you 225 00:12:35,453 --> 00:12:37,653 Speaker 3: don't want to be looking back and going, geez, they've 226 00:12:37,653 --> 00:12:40,053 Speaker 3: gone and lost four nil to South Africa. What are 227 00:12:40,093 --> 00:12:42,133 Speaker 3: we going to do a year out from a Rugby 228 00:12:42,213 --> 00:12:44,573 Speaker 3: World Cup so make any changes that need to be 229 00:12:44,613 --> 00:12:47,293 Speaker 3: made now and get them in place for me. I think, 230 00:12:47,853 --> 00:12:49,693 Speaker 3: you know, I'd like to see a more clearly defined 231 00:12:49,733 --> 00:12:52,213 Speaker 3: coaching structure in the team. You know, I don't you know, 232 00:12:52,253 --> 00:12:54,413 Speaker 3: Scott Robs is not going to go, but I do 233 00:12:54,573 --> 00:12:57,893 Speaker 3: wonder whether they need to have a specialist attack coach 234 00:12:57,973 --> 00:13:00,893 Speaker 3: and take some of that responsibility away from Scott Hansen. 235 00:13:01,733 --> 00:13:04,773 Speaker 3: Maybe he gets basically moved into it an assistant coaching 236 00:13:04,893 --> 00:13:07,773 Speaker 3: role or you know, similar role. I'm not sure, but 237 00:13:08,573 --> 00:13:10,933 Speaker 3: I don't know who's out there. You know, we've spit 238 00:13:11,013 --> 00:13:14,973 Speaker 3: board a few names over dinner and various things in 239 00:13:15,093 --> 00:13:16,893 Speaker 3: Cardiff as to who might be around. But I'd like 240 00:13:16,893 --> 00:13:19,453 Speaker 3: to see a traditional attack coach come into the structure 241 00:13:19,773 --> 00:13:22,293 Speaker 3: that can drive that. And you know, Kendrick Lynn out 242 00:13:22,333 --> 00:13:24,293 Speaker 3: of Argentina is the name. I'm not sure how long 243 00:13:24,333 --> 00:13:27,533 Speaker 3: he's contracted for. Tyler Blindell was at Leinster. I knows 244 00:13:27,573 --> 00:13:32,013 Speaker 3: he's highly regarded as well. You just don't know how 245 00:13:32,053 --> 00:13:34,853 Speaker 3: long people are contracted, what causes they've gotten their contracts. 246 00:13:34,893 --> 00:13:37,653 Speaker 3: But as I say, to circle back to your original question, 247 00:13:38,373 --> 00:13:40,533 Speaker 3: make sure you just don't waste what's in front of 248 00:13:40,613 --> 00:13:42,213 Speaker 3: you here and make sure you're making the right decisions 249 00:13:42,253 --> 00:13:43,053 Speaker 3: for this All Blacks team. 250 00:13:43,333 --> 00:13:46,133 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good point, isn't it. Learn from 251 00:13:46,253 --> 00:13:52,613 Speaker 2: history and be open to feedback and change because people 252 00:13:52,653 --> 00:13:56,653 Speaker 2: can be very resistant to change. But I think from 253 00:13:56,693 --> 00:13:59,213 Speaker 2: my perspective, it's very evident that something's not right and 254 00:13:59,333 --> 00:14:01,573 Speaker 2: something is not working within the All Black team, and 255 00:14:02,053 --> 00:14:04,893 Speaker 2: a ten to three record is far from terminal. But 256 00:14:05,813 --> 00:14:08,933 Speaker 2: you drill down into that, you look at the the 257 00:14:09,013 --> 00:14:13,773 Speaker 2: French series and the consistent issues, the lack of progress 258 00:14:14,773 --> 00:14:18,573 Speaker 2: and the player feedback. I think something needs to change. 259 00:14:18,653 --> 00:14:23,293 Speaker 2: Look when you talk about the alternatives, I guess even 260 00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:26,293 Speaker 2: Jamie Joseph has been talked about as an alternative at 261 00:14:26,333 --> 00:14:31,653 Speaker 2: this point without Tony Brown not hugely compelling. I would 262 00:14:31,773 --> 00:14:34,373 Speaker 2: love to see a guy like Joe Schmitt added, but 263 00:14:35,413 --> 00:14:38,893 Speaker 2: that's not going to happen. He was alienated during Robertson's 264 00:14:38,893 --> 00:14:41,933 Speaker 2: appointment process with the m Foster still at the Helm 265 00:14:41,973 --> 00:14:45,093 Speaker 2: while Schmidt was assistant, which is a great shame to 266 00:14:46,333 --> 00:14:50,013 Speaker 2: push away such a great rugby mind who is finishing 267 00:14:50,053 --> 00:14:55,453 Speaker 2: with the Wallabies soon. Wayne Smith has been involved, but 268 00:14:55,533 --> 00:14:57,813 Speaker 2: on a very limited basis. I think he was involved 269 00:14:58,333 --> 00:15:01,413 Speaker 2: with the Springboks test at Eden Park and the Wallabies 270 00:15:01,453 --> 00:15:05,293 Speaker 2: test in Wellington, so very much at arm's length, and 271 00:15:05,813 --> 00:15:07,973 Speaker 2: I think he's at a stage in life and career 272 00:15:08,013 --> 00:15:12,893 Speaker 2: where he wouldn't want to be involved more consistently, So 273 00:15:13,853 --> 00:15:17,213 Speaker 2: there's not a pathora of options out there there. There's 274 00:15:18,213 --> 00:15:21,813 Speaker 2: Andrew Goodman up in Irelands who's quite highly regarded while 275 00:15:21,813 --> 00:15:25,933 Speaker 2: and aren't going particularly well at the moment either. I 276 00:15:26,013 --> 00:15:28,813 Speaker 2: guess there's a few people in Japan as well, Dave 277 00:15:28,853 --> 00:15:33,853 Speaker 2: Rennie and co. But I think at this point New 278 00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:36,733 Speaker 2: zeal Rugby is typically a very conservative organization, aren't they, 279 00:15:36,813 --> 00:15:40,093 Speaker 2: and so I think they'll probably be given a stay 280 00:15:40,133 --> 00:15:43,493 Speaker 2: of execution maybe the South African tour. They might be 281 00:15:43,573 --> 00:15:48,373 Speaker 2: given some expectations around results. For me, that's waiting a 282 00:15:48,413 --> 00:15:50,573 Speaker 2: bit long watch the. 283 00:15:50,613 --> 00:15:54,493 Speaker 3: Space on that front. Russia Rausmus incidentally handed in a 284 00:15:54,573 --> 00:15:57,093 Speaker 3: four year extension, so he's now contracted for the next 285 00:15:57,093 --> 00:15:58,773 Speaker 3: six years through to twenty thirty. 286 00:15:58,533 --> 00:16:00,933 Speaker 2: One, which is signver going to retire right REMARKA. 287 00:16:00,613 --> 00:16:01,933 Speaker 3: Well, I think he's just going to be the Springbok 288 00:16:01,973 --> 00:16:05,693 Speaker 3: coaching perpetuity until basically he goes out of there in 289 00:16:05,693 --> 00:16:07,733 Speaker 3: a coffin. And why not because he is clearly the 290 00:16:07,773 --> 00:16:09,933 Speaker 3: best coaching game at the moment in the men's game, 291 00:16:10,053 --> 00:16:12,893 Speaker 3: and would you change absolutely through to twenty thirty one, 292 00:16:12,893 --> 00:16:15,093 Speaker 3: which is a daunting prospect for every other team in 293 00:16:15,133 --> 00:16:15,413 Speaker 3: the world. 294 00:16:15,533 --> 00:16:18,173 Speaker 2: Does There's a bit of chat that his delay in 295 00:16:18,373 --> 00:16:21,533 Speaker 2: resigning was linked to his assistants. Do we expect Tony 296 00:16:21,573 --> 00:16:23,813 Speaker 2: Brown and co. There's been a bit of talk about 297 00:16:24,053 --> 00:16:29,133 Speaker 2: Jacques Nebina coming back from Leinster as well. How do 298 00:16:29,173 --> 00:16:29,573 Speaker 2: you see all that? 299 00:16:29,613 --> 00:16:30,933 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it was interesting. I looked at the media 300 00:16:30,973 --> 00:16:33,253 Speaker 3: release and they said, announcements are of the assistant coaches 301 00:16:33,373 --> 00:16:38,213 Speaker 3: we made in due course. You know, for for a 302 00:16:38,253 --> 00:16:39,813 Speaker 3: head coach, maybe it's a bit easier to sign on 303 00:16:39,933 --> 00:16:42,293 Speaker 3: for twenty thirty one. Assistant coaches might not be as 304 00:16:42,413 --> 00:16:44,373 Speaker 3: keen to sign on for six years. Some of them 305 00:16:44,373 --> 00:16:46,893 Speaker 3: will have aspirations to be head coaches, I am sure 306 00:16:47,013 --> 00:16:49,933 Speaker 3: elsewhere or head back to family or Jerry Flannery's in 307 00:16:49,973 --> 00:16:51,653 Speaker 3: there whether he wants to know, back to Eirel or 308 00:16:51,653 --> 00:16:54,653 Speaker 3: whatever it might be. So watch this space, I guess 309 00:16:54,853 --> 00:16:57,533 Speaker 3: on that front. But twenty thirty one, let's talk about 310 00:16:57,533 --> 00:17:00,853 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven and the Ruggy Will Cup drawer has 311 00:17:01,013 --> 00:17:03,533 Speaker 3: been made and we know the all Blacks have the 312 00:17:03,573 --> 00:17:06,533 Speaker 3: Wallabies in Paul play maybe the opening game, maybe not. 313 00:17:07,053 --> 00:17:09,733 Speaker 3: I've heard mixed things and I I Peyton last week 314 00:17:09,773 --> 00:17:11,253 Speaker 3: sudused to that it might end up being at the 315 00:17:11,373 --> 00:17:14,093 Speaker 3: MCG in week two or three, so it might not 316 00:17:14,173 --> 00:17:16,493 Speaker 3: be the blockbuster opener that many are expecting. 317 00:17:17,013 --> 00:17:18,933 Speaker 2: That would sort of make sense because your opening game 318 00:17:19,053 --> 00:17:20,493 Speaker 2: sells out regardless, hope. 319 00:17:20,533 --> 00:17:22,293 Speaker 3: So even if it's Wallaby is sort of Chili or 320 00:17:22,453 --> 00:17:22,893 Speaker 3: Hong Kong. 321 00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:25,453 Speaker 2: I think if people want to be involved, it's an. 322 00:17:25,333 --> 00:17:28,293 Speaker 3: Occasion, they'll have the opening cerameter beforehand and those sort 323 00:17:28,293 --> 00:17:31,173 Speaker 3: of things. But as it stands, look if they all 324 00:17:31,173 --> 00:17:33,253 Speaker 3: Blacks are good enough to beat the Wallabies and therefore 325 00:17:33,293 --> 00:17:36,973 Speaker 3: and also beat Hong Kong and Chile, and then so 326 00:17:37,093 --> 00:17:40,173 Speaker 3: that forgot to help us. Well, look, you know there's 327 00:17:40,173 --> 00:17:41,733 Speaker 3: a lot of water to go on the bridge that exapply. 328 00:17:41,853 --> 00:17:45,373 Speaker 2: Is they could be some blood bus Yeah. 329 00:17:45,333 --> 00:17:49,453 Speaker 3: Unfortunately and afteria match that then they're on a collision 330 00:17:49,533 --> 00:17:51,093 Speaker 3: course for a quarter final. 331 00:17:53,373 --> 00:17:54,333 Speaker 4: This what do you like? 332 00:17:54,653 --> 00:17:55,973 Speaker 3: What do you make of? I guess that the way 333 00:17:56,013 --> 00:17:57,013 Speaker 3: that this has gone about. 334 00:17:57,613 --> 00:18:01,693 Speaker 2: Ah, that's absurd. Yeah, How does World rugby take something 335 00:18:01,773 --> 00:18:10,093 Speaker 2: that could be so simple and make it so frustrating tennis. Basically, 336 00:18:10,293 --> 00:18:13,973 Speaker 2: most other sports seed their teams. Why have world rankings 337 00:18:14,373 --> 00:18:16,493 Speaker 2: that if they are going to be irrelevant for your 338 00:18:16,533 --> 00:18:20,893 Speaker 2: global showpiece? Yeah, look, the rankings could change between now 339 00:18:20,973 --> 00:18:23,693 Speaker 2: and the World Cup as it stands, and I don't 340 00:18:23,693 --> 00:18:25,573 Speaker 2: actually agree with the rankings at the moment. I think 341 00:18:25,573 --> 00:18:27,133 Speaker 2: the All Black should be a but lower. They lost 342 00:18:27,173 --> 00:18:29,253 Speaker 2: to England to a ranked third. As it stands, the 343 00:18:29,453 --> 00:18:32,533 Speaker 2: Blacks two, South Africa one, and they are highly likely 344 00:18:32,613 --> 00:18:36,293 Speaker 2: to meet in this quarterfinal. That should not happen for 345 00:18:36,333 --> 00:18:38,693 Speaker 2: your global showpiece. The two best teams, one of them 346 00:18:38,733 --> 00:18:41,813 Speaker 2: going home. And we had a lot of that four 347 00:18:41,893 --> 00:18:44,213 Speaker 2: years ago or by the time this Nick's World Cup 348 00:18:44,293 --> 00:18:47,973 Speaker 2: rolls around. How do you not just just seed the 349 00:18:48,053 --> 00:18:51,653 Speaker 2: top four teams and have them in opposing quarterfinals provided 350 00:18:51,693 --> 00:18:52,453 Speaker 2: they win their pools. 351 00:18:52,533 --> 00:18:55,893 Speaker 3: It's not that hard, No, it's this was the moment 352 00:18:55,933 --> 00:18:58,133 Speaker 3: that wild rugby firmly lost the plot, I have to say, 353 00:18:59,453 --> 00:19:02,613 Speaker 3: and going to twenty four teams, they don't have the 354 00:19:02,653 --> 00:19:05,533 Speaker 3: depth to go to twenty four teams. I'm sorry. This 355 00:19:05,733 --> 00:19:08,293 Speaker 3: is not a global game that rugby believes it is, 356 00:19:08,333 --> 00:19:09,293 Speaker 3: world rugby believes it is. 357 00:19:09,493 --> 00:19:11,653 Speaker 2: Is it just a cash grape more games. 358 00:19:11,733 --> 00:19:16,013 Speaker 3: Probably, Yeah, it's more games for the broadcasters around the globe. 359 00:19:16,333 --> 00:19:18,773 Speaker 3: There's more knockout games, so in theory there's more jeopardy 360 00:19:19,493 --> 00:19:21,813 Speaker 3: in there. But you do not have the quality to 361 00:19:21,853 --> 00:19:23,933 Speaker 3: go to twenty four teams. I'm sorry. You can talk 362 00:19:23,973 --> 00:19:25,813 Speaker 3: about growing the game and maybe this is them just 363 00:19:25,853 --> 00:19:26,413 Speaker 3: throwing a bone. 364 00:19:26,533 --> 00:19:28,173 Speaker 2: It's complete lips of this because what do they do 365 00:19:28,493 --> 00:19:31,013 Speaker 2: outside of World Cups for those teams totally? If anything, 366 00:19:31,053 --> 00:19:33,493 Speaker 2: it's getting worse with the Nation's championship and so. 367 00:19:33,573 --> 00:19:36,293 Speaker 3: What they've done here is make a mockery of the 368 00:19:36,333 --> 00:19:38,453 Speaker 3: World Cup. They've at it in a round of sixteen, 369 00:19:40,293 --> 00:19:42,413 Speaker 3: and you know you're gonna have a you know, the 370 00:19:42,493 --> 00:19:44,773 Speaker 3: current World Cup in terms of the twenty teams, your 371 00:19:44,853 --> 00:19:47,213 Speaker 3: farewell twelve teams when you went into the knockout stage. 372 00:19:47,253 --> 00:19:49,253 Speaker 3: Now you've got a round of sixteen. There's only eight 373 00:19:49,293 --> 00:19:52,573 Speaker 3: teams that go home before that round of sixteen, so 374 00:19:52,773 --> 00:19:55,453 Speaker 3: there's very little on the pool stage. The All Blacks 375 00:19:55,533 --> 00:19:58,413 Speaker 3: already know that Warby's not every team therefore knows it. 376 00:19:58,573 --> 00:20:01,373 Speaker 3: You know the path, you know, so far out from 377 00:20:02,693 --> 00:20:05,373 Speaker 3: a World Cup, and you're right, there should be some 378 00:20:05,453 --> 00:20:09,133 Speaker 3: protection there for that mythical top six that they talked about. 379 00:20:09,173 --> 00:20:11,893 Speaker 3: You know you want to protection, Well, it's not about 380 00:20:11,973 --> 00:20:13,373 Speaker 3: just the all blacks space in the spring box. It's 381 00:20:13,373 --> 00:20:15,693 Speaker 3: about the quality of the competition and making sure that 382 00:20:16,133 --> 00:20:19,813 Speaker 3: you have the best games deeper into the tournament. So 383 00:20:20,293 --> 00:20:26,173 Speaker 3: I firmly believe this is a shamboic tournaments structure from 384 00:20:26,613 --> 00:20:28,733 Speaker 3: World Rugby. For me, look, if you want to have 385 00:20:28,773 --> 00:20:31,533 Speaker 3: a round of sixteen, I would reced after the pool 386 00:20:31,533 --> 00:20:35,333 Speaker 3: stage and go, this was the best performing pool team, 387 00:20:35,773 --> 00:20:39,013 Speaker 3: one points different whatever it is they won. So let's 388 00:20:39,013 --> 00:20:41,453 Speaker 3: say South Africa, you know, put some points on they 389 00:20:41,493 --> 00:20:45,293 Speaker 3: are seated one. The lowest team to qualify. Sixteenth one 390 00:20:45,373 --> 00:20:47,973 Speaker 3: play sixteen. You have eight games, you put them all 391 00:20:48,013 --> 00:20:51,053 Speaker 3: in one venue over the course of a weekend, you know, 392 00:20:52,053 --> 00:20:54,893 Speaker 3: four games, three games a day, whatever is over four 393 00:20:54,973 --> 00:20:56,813 Speaker 3: days and it's all in Perth. It's all in Melbourne. 394 00:20:56,933 --> 00:20:58,693 Speaker 3: So teams know where they're going to be, so it's 395 00:20:58,733 --> 00:21:01,733 Speaker 3: not like they're having to factor that and necessarily. But 396 00:21:02,693 --> 00:21:05,893 Speaker 3: I think this is just an absolute shocker from World rugby. 397 00:21:06,093 --> 00:21:09,213 Speaker 3: And you know you talk luck of the draw, well, 398 00:21:09,373 --> 00:21:11,253 Speaker 3: very much is for some times and very much is 399 00:21:11,373 --> 00:21:12,133 Speaker 3: for some others. 400 00:21:12,253 --> 00:21:16,333 Speaker 2: That's right. I think it is Look, well, I'm going 401 00:21:16,413 --> 00:21:18,573 Speaker 2: to shoot down the tym for a hat brigade here 402 00:21:18,693 --> 00:21:21,653 Speaker 2: that say it's a big conspiracy and World Rugby one 403 00:21:21,693 --> 00:21:24,613 Speaker 2: on Northern Hemisphere winner. That's not true at all. This 404 00:21:24,813 --> 00:21:27,133 Speaker 2: is completely random. There is a lot of luck in it. 405 00:21:28,093 --> 00:21:30,253 Speaker 2: But the only benefit to this style of World Cup, 406 00:21:30,293 --> 00:21:32,453 Speaker 2: as I think, it's despite having more teams, it's a 407 00:21:32,453 --> 00:21:37,853 Speaker 2: bit shorter. So that's the only benefits. I think the 408 00:21:37,893 --> 00:21:42,693 Speaker 2: team should be seeded and it does like your suggestion, 409 00:21:43,093 --> 00:21:45,013 Speaker 2: puts a lot more on the on the pool stages 410 00:21:45,453 --> 00:21:51,413 Speaker 2: because you have a scenario where even Italy could rest 411 00:21:51,493 --> 00:21:54,253 Speaker 2: their top team playing the spring box to make ensure 412 00:21:54,293 --> 00:21:58,813 Speaker 2: they win the other two pool matches. It's going to 413 00:21:58,853 --> 00:22:02,453 Speaker 2: be a pretty painful pool stage. The other point is 414 00:22:04,933 --> 00:22:09,293 Speaker 2: FIFA did their draw six months out from their tournaments. 415 00:22:09,413 --> 00:22:12,173 Speaker 2: World Rugby do it two years? One is bigger than 416 00:22:12,173 --> 00:22:16,613 Speaker 2: the other two. Why, Like you've shortened it by a 417 00:22:16,733 --> 00:22:21,253 Speaker 2: year because of all the massive criticism you copped for 418 00:22:21,333 --> 00:22:23,653 Speaker 2: the last tournament in France. Doing it three years out 419 00:22:23,933 --> 00:22:26,893 Speaker 2: two years isn't much better. If football can do it, 420 00:22:27,093 --> 00:22:27,933 Speaker 2: why can't rugby? 421 00:22:28,133 --> 00:22:30,173 Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't get that in the slightest I know 422 00:22:31,013 --> 00:22:32,853 Speaker 3: you know the Basically the chatter is that you know, 423 00:22:32,893 --> 00:22:35,053 Speaker 3: all the English fans and stuff go spin their pounds 424 00:22:35,093 --> 00:22:36,613 Speaker 3: and booking for travel packages and. 425 00:22:36,693 --> 00:22:38,573 Speaker 2: Things, and the teams want to know logistics. 426 00:22:38,653 --> 00:22:41,053 Speaker 3: But well, I'm sure teams want to know logistics and 427 00:22:41,373 --> 00:22:43,853 Speaker 3: they are able to provide that by going this pool 428 00:22:43,893 --> 00:22:45,933 Speaker 3: is going to play in this spot. This pool is 429 00:22:45,933 --> 00:22:47,333 Speaker 3: going to plan this spot and you can do that 430 00:22:47,413 --> 00:22:51,213 Speaker 3: with rugby as well. So look, I yeah this, and 431 00:22:51,333 --> 00:22:54,333 Speaker 3: look I don't think it's wreched, but there's something weird 432 00:22:54,373 --> 00:22:56,653 Speaker 3: about the All Blacks in Australia being in one pool, 433 00:22:57,013 --> 00:23:01,213 Speaker 3: England being in the same pool as Wales, Ireland Scotland. 434 00:23:01,893 --> 00:23:03,773 Speaker 3: I'm not sure where the TV rights have been sold 435 00:23:03,853 --> 00:23:07,173 Speaker 3: for the UK and Ireland as yet. 436 00:23:07,133 --> 00:23:10,453 Speaker 2: But as worked out well, isn't it. And that's the 437 00:23:10,453 --> 00:23:12,933 Speaker 2: other point that we need to make is this tournament 438 00:23:13,133 --> 00:23:17,533 Speaker 2: is absolutely set up for England. Yeah, and I think 439 00:23:17,573 --> 00:23:20,213 Speaker 2: it's lucky the draw, but it is absolute luck. So 440 00:23:20,733 --> 00:23:23,453 Speaker 2: as it stands, if they win their pool, they avoid 441 00:23:24,573 --> 00:23:29,493 Speaker 2: the All Blacks, South Africa and France until the semi finals. 442 00:23:29,813 --> 00:23:30,013 Speaker 3: Yeah. 443 00:23:30,213 --> 00:23:32,053 Speaker 2: Just for the record, if you had as seated the 444 00:23:32,093 --> 00:23:36,453 Speaker 2: pools seeded, Yeah, the top teams in the pools a 445 00:23:36,613 --> 00:23:43,133 Speaker 2: likely quarterfinals South Africa, Fiji, Scotland, Ireland, France or Japan, England, 446 00:23:43,253 --> 00:23:48,853 Speaker 2: Argentina or Wales, New Zealand, Australia and Italy, which to 447 00:23:48,973 --> 00:23:50,773 Speaker 2: me seems much more logical. 448 00:23:51,093 --> 00:23:53,453 Speaker 3: Totally. I mean, I just don't see why they've gone 449 00:23:53,493 --> 00:23:56,173 Speaker 3: from twenty teams at all. To be honest, I think 450 00:23:56,293 --> 00:23:59,533 Speaker 3: wild rugby pays lip service to growing the game. This 451 00:23:59,693 --> 00:24:01,213 Speaker 3: is one easy box so they can go, oh, we 452 00:24:01,253 --> 00:24:03,293 Speaker 3: can say we're growing the game. They also you know, 453 00:24:03,413 --> 00:24:06,613 Speaker 3: blood referees from emerging nations and go oh with you know, 454 00:24:07,853 --> 00:24:10,893 Speaker 3: you know, but from Georgia and Andrea Piatia are coming in. 455 00:24:11,053 --> 00:24:14,333 Speaker 3: That's growing the game there. It's absolute rubbish and all 456 00:24:14,373 --> 00:24:17,853 Speaker 3: you're doing is hamstringing your event for the sake of 457 00:24:17,973 --> 00:24:20,093 Speaker 3: pretending that you're growing the game. So I think world 458 00:24:20,173 --> 00:24:21,373 Speaker 3: rugby has had an absolute shocker. 459 00:24:22,013 --> 00:24:26,093 Speaker 4: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 460 00:24:29,253 --> 00:24:32,453 Speaker 4: Every try try and sixty sick, every tackle, put. 461 00:24:32,373 --> 00:24:37,773 Speaker 3: Tack, the tackles get up again before time. 462 00:24:37,853 --> 00:24:38,933 Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct. 463 00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:43,093 Speaker 3: Talk the game in New Zealand as a whole as 464 00:24:43,133 --> 00:24:45,333 Speaker 3: we head into twenty twenty six and a little bit 465 00:24:45,373 --> 00:24:47,573 Speaker 3: of state of flux. We've got a chief executive that 466 00:24:47,613 --> 00:24:49,493 Speaker 3: has yet to be appointed. There was a lot of 467 00:24:49,493 --> 00:24:51,773 Speaker 3: suggestions they wanted to see you are appointed by Christmas 468 00:24:51,813 --> 00:24:54,333 Speaker 3: while we're recording this in the eighth of December, running 469 00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:55,973 Speaker 3: out of a little bit of time. They've got a 470 00:24:56,013 --> 00:24:58,293 Speaker 3: little bit of time still to make that appointment or 471 00:24:58,333 --> 00:25:01,813 Speaker 3: announce that appointment. But I think a bit of state 472 00:25:01,853 --> 00:25:03,413 Speaker 3: of flux just with where things are out. They'll be 473 00:25:03,413 --> 00:25:05,813 Speaker 3: happy they've got the TV deal signed away with Sky, 474 00:25:07,173 --> 00:25:09,613 Speaker 3: but there are some chain, you know, things in the 475 00:25:09,693 --> 00:25:11,813 Speaker 3: in the world game that are coming, and obviously a 476 00:25:11,853 --> 00:25:14,813 Speaker 3: new CEO that needs to come in and a couple 477 00:25:14,853 --> 00:25:15,893 Speaker 3: of other appointments as well. 478 00:25:15,973 --> 00:25:19,893 Speaker 2: Then, yeah, massive appointments in terms of where the game 479 00:25:19,933 --> 00:25:23,013 Speaker 2: in New Zealand goes, how it's run. I think there's 480 00:25:23,213 --> 00:25:26,693 Speaker 2: three executive appointments basically, and you need to start with 481 00:25:26,773 --> 00:25:31,693 Speaker 2: the CEO first and foremost. It's been widely reported that 482 00:25:32,373 --> 00:25:35,333 Speaker 2: Tom Harrison that the Six Nations CEO is the front 483 00:25:35,413 --> 00:25:40,413 Speaker 2: runner for that. Who's the cricket David David White. David 484 00:25:40,453 --> 00:25:43,213 Speaker 2: White is another one, so I heard last time they 485 00:25:43,253 --> 00:25:46,533 Speaker 2: were down to the final three. Sean Marx is definitely 486 00:25:46,573 --> 00:25:48,933 Speaker 2: not one and that was. 487 00:25:48,933 --> 00:25:50,933 Speaker 3: A reporter over the weekend that Sean Marx wasn't was 488 00:25:51,013 --> 00:25:52,893 Speaker 3: in the mix. So your understanding is that he's not 489 00:25:53,213 --> 00:25:53,653 Speaker 3: not true. 490 00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:57,413 Speaker 2: I made some inquiries along those lines a couple of 491 00:25:57,453 --> 00:25:59,693 Speaker 2: weeks ago and it was while we're in the UK. Yeah, yeah, 492 00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:02,933 Speaker 2: didn't come to anything and so it won't be sure. 493 00:26:03,053 --> 00:26:07,533 Speaker 2: Marks could be Tom Harrison massive appointment in terms of 494 00:26:09,213 --> 00:26:14,013 Speaker 2: taking charge and look, yeah, New Zealand rugby isn't a 495 00:26:14,053 --> 00:26:17,013 Speaker 2: bit of a state of flux. There's so many realms 496 00:26:17,053 --> 00:26:21,133 Speaker 2: to it. I think you look at it's not a 497 00:26:21,253 --> 00:26:27,053 Speaker 2: total picture, but even the Ossie schools and New Zealand's 498 00:26:27,453 --> 00:26:31,693 Speaker 2: I need to get around the right way under eighteens 499 00:26:31,933 --> 00:26:34,933 Speaker 2: on schools. Those results this year sparked a bit of 500 00:26:34,973 --> 00:26:40,773 Speaker 2: alarm about TELL and identification and developments. I know there's 501 00:26:40,773 --> 00:26:42,253 Speaker 2: a bit of work keeping there in the in the 502 00:26:42,453 --> 00:26:45,173 Speaker 2: around the super rugby teams and getting that competition off 503 00:26:45,213 --> 00:26:50,253 Speaker 2: the grounds. You've got issues around the women's game as well. 504 00:26:51,413 --> 00:26:53,653 Speaker 2: I was speaking to someone over the past couple of days. 505 00:26:53,653 --> 00:26:58,933 Speaker 2: Over the weekends there's big clashes with Fara, Palmer Cup 506 00:26:59,173 --> 00:27:03,093 Speaker 2: and Club Rugby and Alpacky and a lot of provincial 507 00:27:03,173 --> 00:27:04,893 Speaker 2: union's unhappy with how that's playing out. 508 00:27:05,973 --> 00:27:07,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, they hadn't mind saying is they don't have a 509 00:27:07,973 --> 00:27:11,173 Speaker 3: lot of say and because they've got the change of 510 00:27:11,173 --> 00:27:14,093 Speaker 3: the global calendar for the women's game has shunted a 511 00:27:14,133 --> 00:27:16,093 Speaker 3: few things around the place, but it's going to hurt 512 00:27:16,093 --> 00:27:16,973 Speaker 3: Club Rugby absolutely. 513 00:27:17,173 --> 00:27:22,453 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think something like seventy eight of players 514 00:27:22,493 --> 00:27:25,613 Speaker 2: and the Fara Palmer Cup come from schools, the teenagers basically, 515 00:27:25,773 --> 00:27:30,853 Speaker 2: so big big challenges there. And the All Blacks you know, 516 00:27:30,933 --> 00:27:34,453 Speaker 2: they're the money making beast that runs the game. And 517 00:27:36,573 --> 00:27:42,613 Speaker 2: I hate the word aura, but the fear factor with 518 00:27:42,653 --> 00:27:45,133 Speaker 2: the All Blacks has gone. And if a bit of 519 00:27:45,173 --> 00:27:48,493 Speaker 2: that mystique, a bit of that nostalgia you know, that's 520 00:27:48,693 --> 00:27:51,773 Speaker 2: marketed and sold around the world. If they don't start 521 00:27:52,053 --> 00:27:56,733 Speaker 2: consistently winning, that can have a big material impact. 522 00:27:58,413 --> 00:28:00,613 Speaker 3: There's still enough brands to that want to be connected 523 00:28:00,653 --> 00:28:01,733 Speaker 3: with New ze ond rugby. 524 00:28:01,653 --> 00:28:03,773 Speaker 2: And I think that the demise of rugby is a 525 00:28:03,813 --> 00:28:07,613 Speaker 2: bit overblown. There's there's massive interest in the game and 526 00:28:07,693 --> 00:28:10,133 Speaker 2: you can see that when things don't go well mostly, 527 00:28:11,213 --> 00:28:15,773 Speaker 2: but there's always challenges around teenage boys and retention of them. 528 00:28:16,853 --> 00:28:19,893 Speaker 2: So yeah, some big ticket items to sort out in 529 00:28:19,933 --> 00:28:22,453 Speaker 2: the coming years. But I think from a revenue perspective, 530 00:28:22,453 --> 00:28:27,053 Speaker 2: they've done really well to cover some big absences, haven't they. 531 00:28:27,173 --> 00:28:30,253 Speaker 2: With some big name sponsors exiting this year. 532 00:28:30,293 --> 00:28:32,853 Speaker 3: They have, and you're right, they sell this on the 533 00:28:32,933 --> 00:28:36,493 Speaker 3: legacy of the All Blacks and you know winning. That's 534 00:28:36,573 --> 00:28:39,013 Speaker 3: the mantra they have, and that's how they go to 535 00:28:39,133 --> 00:28:41,053 Speaker 3: brands overseas and go, this is what you want, we 536 00:28:41,133 --> 00:28:43,133 Speaker 3: want you to be part of, and this is the 537 00:28:43,253 --> 00:28:44,853 Speaker 3: check that we would like, thank you very much. And 538 00:28:45,173 --> 00:28:48,533 Speaker 3: when you start to chip away that it's inevitable that, 539 00:28:48,933 --> 00:28:52,533 Speaker 3: you know, people will drive down the amount of money 540 00:28:52,533 --> 00:28:55,133 Speaker 3: they're willing to pay to part part money with to 541 00:28:55,373 --> 00:28:57,813 Speaker 3: sponsor teams. And I think that's only natural. So when 542 00:28:57,853 --> 00:29:00,013 Speaker 3: it's the show piece, you've got to put up and 543 00:29:00,453 --> 00:29:03,813 Speaker 3: get the results or else the money starts to drift away. 544 00:29:03,813 --> 00:29:04,013 Speaker 1: I know. 545 00:29:04,333 --> 00:29:07,533 Speaker 3: Hearing from Mark Robinson and his excellency with Jason Pine 546 00:29:07,573 --> 00:29:09,893 Speaker 3: over the weekend, he talk about how much commercial revenue 547 00:29:09,933 --> 00:29:12,053 Speaker 3: is now driven outside of New Zealand versus when he 548 00:29:12,133 --> 00:29:14,893 Speaker 3: started the job. You know, it was made up a 549 00:29:15,013 --> 00:29:17,693 Speaker 3: lot more of the percentage. Now it's probably more overseas 550 00:29:17,773 --> 00:29:20,933 Speaker 3: than in New Zealand. But that can only last when 551 00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:23,653 Speaker 3: you've got a record like the All Blacks and they 552 00:29:23,693 --> 00:29:26,453 Speaker 3: need to protect that at all costs. And you'd say 553 00:29:26,453 --> 00:29:28,373 Speaker 3: at the moment that South Africa is leading the way 554 00:29:28,453 --> 00:29:32,373 Speaker 3: in terms of winning on the field the innovations that 555 00:29:32,373 --> 00:29:35,333 Speaker 3: they're bringing to rugby as well, in New Zealand's lacking 556 00:29:35,373 --> 00:29:37,693 Speaker 3: a bit behind. So there are some things that need 557 00:29:37,733 --> 00:29:40,373 Speaker 3: to be chipped out a way come twenty twenty six. Yeah. 558 00:29:40,413 --> 00:29:42,773 Speaker 2: Super Pacific is the other one I think from a 559 00:29:42,853 --> 00:29:46,173 Speaker 2: product point of view, that has come on massively in 560 00:29:46,253 --> 00:29:51,333 Speaker 2: recent years and that's prominenttly been driven by the way 561 00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:56,173 Speaker 2: the game is officiated, letting the game flow, minimizing TMO 562 00:29:56,333 --> 00:30:03,213 Speaker 2: influence and stoppages, creating a really captivating on field domestic products. 563 00:30:04,573 --> 00:30:08,213 Speaker 2: But that challenge, that competition has massive challenges as well 564 00:30:08,413 --> 00:30:10,973 Speaker 2: with I don't know that any team in New Zealand's 565 00:30:11,013 --> 00:30:13,813 Speaker 2: turning a profit. I know the Crusaders won the title 566 00:30:14,213 --> 00:30:16,773 Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure they didn't even make a profit, 567 00:30:16,813 --> 00:30:19,253 Speaker 2: and that's partly due to the stadium. The Hurricanes and 568 00:30:19,333 --> 00:30:21,653 Speaker 2: are in a massive state of flux. I've found an 569 00:30:21,693 --> 00:30:24,973 Speaker 2: investor who will a bit of a White Knights, who 570 00:30:24,973 --> 00:30:28,373 Speaker 2: will sort of bail them out, but big financial challenges 571 00:30:28,413 --> 00:30:34,453 Speaker 2: around Mine and PACIFICA. Essentially the longevity of that competition 572 00:30:34,613 --> 00:30:37,853 Speaker 2: ensuring it can survive because on the field, I think 573 00:30:37,893 --> 00:30:41,733 Speaker 2: it is delivering, even though there's still questions about if 574 00:30:41,773 --> 00:30:45,773 Speaker 2: it's best preparing New Zealand Australian athletes, in particular for 575 00:30:46,253 --> 00:30:48,213 Speaker 2: the test scene. When you look at the way the 576 00:30:48,293 --> 00:30:50,053 Speaker 2: game's played an international ragba at the. 577 00:30:50,013 --> 00:30:51,973 Speaker 3: Moment this year super Aby was the best in years 578 00:30:52,253 --> 00:30:56,253 Speaker 3: and it started strongly and a couple of weekends when 579 00:30:56,293 --> 00:30:58,853 Speaker 3: there wasn't Derby's it did dip a little but came 580 00:30:58,933 --> 00:31:01,053 Speaker 3: up towards the end. There was some compelling playoff games. 581 00:31:01,053 --> 00:31:03,933 Speaker 3: The Blues upsetting the Chiefs, Blues pushing the Crusaders all 582 00:31:03,933 --> 00:31:07,933 Speaker 3: the way are very very absorbing final In the end, 583 00:31:08,173 --> 00:31:11,373 Speaker 3: I don't know that it's the product that's going to 584 00:31:12,813 --> 00:31:15,493 Speaker 3: remain over the coming years. There's still, you know, eleven teams. 585 00:31:15,613 --> 00:31:19,573 Speaker 3: There's been no solution to a twelfth or further expansion 586 00:31:19,773 --> 00:31:23,613 Speaker 3: on that front. Desperately need the Australian teams to dure 587 00:31:23,653 --> 00:31:25,373 Speaker 3: say a winner title at some point in the next 588 00:31:25,413 --> 00:31:28,733 Speaker 3: couple of years, to just create that little bit of 589 00:31:28,853 --> 00:31:32,013 Speaker 3: tension in terms of not only playing but also the 590 00:31:32,093 --> 00:31:36,133 Speaker 3: viewing tension rivalry is exactly right. So yeah, I think 591 00:31:37,373 --> 00:31:38,853 Speaker 3: it's gonna be interesting to see where it goes over 592 00:31:38,893 --> 00:31:42,613 Speaker 3: the next few while. I know Australia's obviously committed, but 593 00:31:42,653 --> 00:31:45,173 Speaker 3: I don't think anyone's particularly happy in club rugby land, 594 00:31:45,413 --> 00:31:48,013 Speaker 3: maybe apart from the top fourteen at the moment. In 595 00:31:48,133 --> 00:31:50,973 Speaker 3: France and maybe in Japan as well. You've got the 596 00:31:51,013 --> 00:31:54,733 Speaker 3: Welsh that are cutting teams fought out to probably three, 597 00:31:55,773 --> 00:31:57,293 Speaker 3: and there's been a bit of talk about an Anglo 598 00:31:57,373 --> 00:32:00,453 Speaker 3: Welsh league. Maybe the Welsh can go join the Premiership 599 00:32:00,813 --> 00:32:05,773 Speaker 3: the URC. It doesn't big travel issues, big travel issues, 600 00:32:05,893 --> 00:32:08,893 Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be enjoyed by the South Africa teams, 601 00:32:09,053 --> 00:32:10,733 Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be enjoyed by the teams that are 602 00:32:10,733 --> 00:32:13,933 Speaker 3: in it from you know, Ireland and Wales and Italy, 603 00:32:13,973 --> 00:32:17,013 Speaker 3: et cetera. So I don't think anywhere in world rugby 604 00:32:17,093 --> 00:32:18,973 Speaker 3: club Landers as perfect at the moment. We did have 605 00:32:19,093 --> 00:32:22,693 Speaker 3: one message from or tweet that Ruck and Puck tweeted us, 606 00:32:23,533 --> 00:32:26,293 Speaker 3: which I've held for this podcast question for you guys. 607 00:32:26,413 --> 00:32:28,533 Speaker 3: He says, what's holding New Zealand rugy back from a 608 00:32:28,533 --> 00:32:30,933 Speaker 3: complete overhaul of Super Rugby. We'd love to see a 609 00:32:30,973 --> 00:32:33,573 Speaker 3: more US style Super Rugby comp and not sure how feasible. 610 00:32:33,813 --> 00:32:36,573 Speaker 3: Would require Insider to relinquish control and each team to 611 00:32:36,613 --> 00:32:40,733 Speaker 3: find private investment, need to increase excitement in Insian rugby. Again, 612 00:32:40,813 --> 00:32:41,453 Speaker 3: it's from Ruck and. 613 00:32:41,533 --> 00:32:45,413 Speaker 2: Puck, so it taught me through our US I suppose 614 00:32:45,653 --> 00:32:48,293 Speaker 2: maybe a draft or a lest games. 615 00:32:48,853 --> 00:32:54,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, potentially less games, but less control from insid art basically, 616 00:32:54,853 --> 00:32:57,293 Speaker 3: and maybe team says he's a private investment, can go 617 00:32:57,413 --> 00:32:59,693 Speaker 3: out and go this is our checkbook. We're willing to 618 00:32:59,733 --> 00:33:01,493 Speaker 3: pay it. Maybe there's no starter cap, maybe there is, 619 00:33:02,853 --> 00:33:04,973 Speaker 3: but you're approaching from a US league model. Maybe you 620 00:33:04,973 --> 00:33:08,173 Speaker 3: have trades mid season, maybe a drive interest that way. 621 00:33:09,213 --> 00:33:10,653 Speaker 3: And answer to your first question, I think it is 622 00:33:10,733 --> 00:33:14,173 Speaker 3: some way off having a league like that. I just 623 00:33:14,253 --> 00:33:18,413 Speaker 3: don't see it being something that can be implemented. You know, 624 00:33:18,533 --> 00:33:22,973 Speaker 3: cross Tasman. There are issues you know around players, you 625 00:33:23,053 --> 00:33:25,293 Speaker 3: know being you know, let's say trading is something they 626 00:33:25,333 --> 00:33:28,213 Speaker 3: want to bring in or draft, which was Hamish mclenan's 627 00:33:28,213 --> 00:33:31,613 Speaker 3: big point around a draft. Well, you know, young seventeen 628 00:33:31,693 --> 00:33:34,933 Speaker 3: year old hot shot first five from Wellington, how much 629 00:33:35,133 --> 00:33:36,493 Speaker 3: is he going to want to move to the Force 630 00:33:36,573 --> 00:33:38,133 Speaker 3: just because I've got the number one draft back in 631 00:33:38,693 --> 00:33:41,133 Speaker 3: Super Rugby, he might just go, bugger, I'm going to 632 00:33:41,133 --> 00:33:44,853 Speaker 3: go to rugby league. You don't have that in NBA, NFL, 633 00:33:45,213 --> 00:33:46,853 Speaker 3: NBA players are going to go. Actually, I don't want 634 00:33:46,853 --> 00:33:50,653 Speaker 3: to go to Miami, for example, I'm just going to 635 00:33:50,693 --> 00:33:52,813 Speaker 3: go switch to another code. It just doesn't happen. So 636 00:33:53,133 --> 00:33:57,213 Speaker 3: there are some inherence restrictions that operate around that. But 637 00:33:58,573 --> 00:34:01,333 Speaker 3: I think you know, Super Rugby could and are trying 638 00:34:01,373 --> 00:34:02,973 Speaker 3: to do more. I know that for a fact, around 639 00:34:03,053 --> 00:34:06,533 Speaker 3: various things. But it's a softly softly approach. Yeah, I 640 00:34:06,613 --> 00:34:09,013 Speaker 3: think they're just of it is highly unlikely, but I 641 00:34:09,093 --> 00:34:13,533 Speaker 3: can see where you're coming from in terms of why 642 00:34:13,653 --> 00:34:16,013 Speaker 3: it would drive interest. And the draft is not a 643 00:34:16,093 --> 00:34:16,533 Speaker 3: new debate. 644 00:34:16,573 --> 00:34:21,293 Speaker 2: We've talked about it previously, even in a sense of okay, 645 00:34:21,373 --> 00:34:25,053 Speaker 2: so you can protect twenty five players, but the rest 646 00:34:25,133 --> 00:34:27,773 Speaker 2: of the playpool is up for grabs. Even something like 647 00:34:27,853 --> 00:34:33,293 Speaker 2: that would create interests. Yeah, I think Sue Bergey probably 648 00:34:33,333 --> 00:34:36,613 Speaker 2: also needs to get better at selling itself. Telling it 649 00:34:36,733 --> 00:34:40,213 Speaker 2: stories outside of the season is a wee bit more 650 00:34:40,293 --> 00:34:43,213 Speaker 2: of that. I think more in the PACIFICA are probably 651 00:34:43,253 --> 00:34:49,013 Speaker 2: the shining light in terms of how they're delivering content 652 00:34:49,333 --> 00:34:54,293 Speaker 2: socially reaching younger fans, So more of that helps. That's 653 00:34:54,373 --> 00:34:58,893 Speaker 2: partly why the Warriors have exploded an interest because of 654 00:34:58,973 --> 00:35:03,573 Speaker 2: the way they're doing things in that space. The US 655 00:35:03,613 --> 00:35:10,493 Speaker 2: style comp works well and season trades, drafts, all those 656 00:35:10,533 --> 00:35:15,053 Speaker 2: sorts of things captivate fans. Fantasy rugby, fantasy sport, whatever 657 00:35:15,133 --> 00:35:17,613 Speaker 2: it is, anything, it can't just be about the on 658 00:35:17,733 --> 00:35:20,133 Speaker 2: field product. You need to do more to drive interest 659 00:35:20,253 --> 00:35:27,093 Speaker 2: in the game. So it's very valid points. But New 660 00:35:27,173 --> 00:35:30,733 Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby is highly unlikely to relinkish that control, as 661 00:35:30,773 --> 00:35:33,853 Speaker 2: Rack and Puck said, because they like to control the 662 00:35:33,933 --> 00:35:37,373 Speaker 2: minutes of the All Blacks, they like to track players, 663 00:35:37,613 --> 00:35:42,213 Speaker 2: they like to have a degree of oversight, right, and 664 00:35:42,493 --> 00:35:45,493 Speaker 2: at this stage they're also paying the players wages they are. 665 00:35:45,973 --> 00:35:47,733 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll leave you with that thought. As we get 666 00:35:47,773 --> 00:35:48,973 Speaker 3: into the break, what do you make the Super Rugby 667 00:35:49,053 --> 00:35:49,853 Speaker 3: juice this finally. 668 00:35:50,573 --> 00:35:55,293 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Canes are epic. Yeah, so it's a good sign. Well, yeah, 669 00:35:55,333 --> 00:35:56,693 Speaker 2: that's the other point I was going to make about 670 00:35:56,693 --> 00:35:59,973 Speaker 2: Super Rugby. The problem, one of the problems right now 671 00:36:00,133 --> 00:36:03,533 Speaker 2: is for all the on field advance is still highly predictable, 672 00:36:04,453 --> 00:36:08,573 Speaker 2: like it's highly likely it's going to be a Hurricane's 673 00:36:09,813 --> 00:36:11,693 Speaker 2: Chiefs final that. 674 00:36:11,733 --> 00:36:14,893 Speaker 3: Would we say highly likely? Would we say highly likely? 675 00:36:14,933 --> 00:36:15,533 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 676 00:36:16,453 --> 00:36:18,533 Speaker 3: Who Hurricanes probably win that because the Chiefs can't win 677 00:36:18,573 --> 00:36:19,573 Speaker 3: a final to save themselves. 678 00:36:20,413 --> 00:36:22,653 Speaker 2: But certainly you're not going to predict a nausea in 679 00:36:22,653 --> 00:36:25,693 Speaker 2: the final right now, or the Highlanders getting there. You 680 00:36:25,773 --> 00:36:30,493 Speaker 2: know that they might improve, but it's still too predictable. 681 00:36:30,573 --> 00:36:32,773 Speaker 2: And that's where a draft and these sort of mechanisms 682 00:36:32,853 --> 00:36:36,093 Speaker 2: come into shake up things and create more interests, create 683 00:36:36,133 --> 00:36:39,213 Speaker 2: a more even playing field. I think that is really needed. 684 00:36:39,293 --> 00:36:44,333 Speaker 3: To just one more point. Actually, I like Super Rugby, 685 00:36:44,373 --> 00:36:47,053 Speaker 3: I really do, but I wonder whether not that its 686 00:36:47,133 --> 00:36:49,853 Speaker 3: moment might have passed, but whether it's what rugby fans want. 687 00:36:50,893 --> 00:36:52,853 Speaker 3: I genuinely question that in this part of the world. 688 00:36:52,893 --> 00:36:54,493 Speaker 3: Do rugby fans want Super Rugby? 689 00:36:54,613 --> 00:36:54,893 Speaker 2: Do they? 690 00:36:55,333 --> 00:36:57,933 Speaker 3: We look at the NRL and and you know that's 691 00:36:57,973 --> 00:37:01,533 Speaker 3: the natural comparison, but do fans want to see the 692 00:37:01,573 --> 00:37:04,533 Speaker 3: Blues warritors in New Zealand? I genuinely don't know that 693 00:37:04,613 --> 00:37:08,813 Speaker 3: there's actually an interest level in Australian rugby to justify 694 00:37:09,093 --> 00:37:12,973 Speaker 3: and keep taking over that I think we might have 695 00:37:13,053 --> 00:37:16,373 Speaker 3: got to the point where we've basically waited for all 696 00:37:16,453 --> 00:37:18,653 Speaker 3: these Australian sides to show up for fifteen years and 697 00:37:18,733 --> 00:37:22,653 Speaker 3: they haven't essentially since the wartar Is in twenty fourteen, 698 00:37:22,733 --> 00:37:24,333 Speaker 3: and even what the odd. 699 00:37:24,173 --> 00:37:27,293 Speaker 2: Exception exception here, but Brumby has been pretty competib But 700 00:37:27,493 --> 00:37:28,493 Speaker 2: you can't just do that off one. 701 00:37:28,653 --> 00:37:32,453 Speaker 3: And I wonder whether the rugby you know, the casual 702 00:37:32,573 --> 00:37:35,773 Speaker 3: rugby fan that isn't always locked and has gone this 703 00:37:35,933 --> 00:37:40,693 Speaker 3: comp is just never going to create the jeopardy that 704 00:37:41,933 --> 00:37:46,093 Speaker 3: I need from it. Regittunity NRL and you know, it's 705 00:37:46,093 --> 00:37:47,773 Speaker 3: a bit of a lottery, and I don't know that's 706 00:37:47,773 --> 00:37:49,853 Speaker 3: always actually a good thing. You kind of need heroes 707 00:37:49,853 --> 00:37:52,253 Speaker 3: and villains and ups and downs and teams, but any 708 00:37:52,293 --> 00:37:54,173 Speaker 3: team can kind of beat anyone. And I just wonder 709 00:37:54,213 --> 00:37:57,373 Speaker 3: whether we're ever going to get that from its Australian 710 00:37:57,413 --> 00:38:00,173 Speaker 3: teams ever. Again, Yeah, it's a very fair question. 711 00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:02,173 Speaker 2: I think one point to make is is probably a 712 00:38:02,213 --> 00:38:07,213 Speaker 2: big disparity between because we're told quite consistently in the 713 00:38:07,253 --> 00:38:10,253 Speaker 2: past eighteen months that viewership figures are really good, but 714 00:38:11,093 --> 00:38:14,933 Speaker 2: in steady of support is really poor, particularly for the 715 00:38:15,013 --> 00:38:22,093 Speaker 2: Australian team, so nobody can solve that riddle. And the 716 00:38:22,173 --> 00:38:25,013 Speaker 2: other point is I think the NRAL are going to 717 00:38:25,093 --> 00:38:26,973 Speaker 2: kill the Golden Goose by bringing in all these teams 718 00:38:26,973 --> 00:38:28,693 Speaker 2: because they're going to have whipping boys for a number 719 00:38:28,733 --> 00:38:32,133 Speaker 2: of years. So that's the that's their issue, but I 720 00:38:32,213 --> 00:38:34,733 Speaker 2: can see that playing out. Super Rugby has been through that. 721 00:38:35,613 --> 00:38:38,333 Speaker 2: But it's a very fair question. And there's always that 722 00:38:38,453 --> 00:38:43,573 Speaker 2: nostalgia around Dutch Super Rugby go back to the NPC, 723 00:38:44,373 --> 00:38:50,213 Speaker 2: and that's not just our parents generation or our generation. 724 00:38:50,893 --> 00:38:59,053 Speaker 2: It's about connection and meaning and rivalries and yeah, just 725 00:38:59,493 --> 00:39:02,453 Speaker 2: it means something more and Super Rugby's probably lost a 726 00:39:02,493 --> 00:39:05,253 Speaker 2: bit of that and desperately trying to get it back. 727 00:39:05,933 --> 00:39:08,333 Speaker 3: We'll see twenty twenty six, I'm sure another big year 728 00:39:08,533 --> 00:39:12,173 Speaker 3: for us on Rugby Direct. Forward to your company. Then 729 00:39:12,213 --> 00:39:14,573 Speaker 3: our thanks to Larst and Bars English for producing this 730 00:39:14,653 --> 00:39:16,853 Speaker 3: podcast all the way through the year. Of course, my 731 00:39:16,893 --> 00:39:19,373 Speaker 3: thanks to you Liam for another big year on Rugby Direct. 732 00:39:19,413 --> 00:39:20,813 Speaker 3: So looking forward to twenty twenty. 733 00:39:20,613 --> 00:39:24,053 Speaker 2: Six, you too, mate. I enjoy your holidays, so Santa's 734 00:39:24,093 --> 00:39:27,373 Speaker 2: good to you and you raise a glass over new year. 735 00:39:27,613 --> 00:39:29,893 Speaker 3: Luckwise, likewise, been another fun year on rugby Direct. We 736 00:39:29,933 --> 00:39:32,293 Speaker 3: look forward to twenty twenty six and now thanks to 737 00:39:32,413 --> 00:39:35,213 Speaker 3: Excess Solutions as well, who are celebrating twenty five years 738 00:39:35,493 --> 00:39:36,053 Speaker 3: in business. 739 00:39:40,253 --> 00:39:42,813 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B, listen live on 740 00:39:42,973 --> 00:39:45,893 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 741 00:39:45,973 --> 00:39:48,533 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio