1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,493 --> 00:00:21,773 Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 4 00:00:21,973 --> 00:00:24,573 Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith powered by news talks ITB. 5 00:00:24,813 --> 00:00:27,693 Speaker 2: Welcome in to Rugby Direct powered by Fourklift Solutions, lifting 6 00:00:27,733 --> 00:00:30,613 Speaker 2: you and your business to a high level. After a 7 00:00:30,653 --> 00:00:33,453 Speaker 2: week where we were rested and rotated out of the 8 00:00:33,453 --> 00:00:36,613 Speaker 2: podcast line up, Liam, we are back, refreshed and ready 9 00:00:36,653 --> 00:00:39,653 Speaker 2: to go and there is plenty to dig into in 10 00:00:39,693 --> 00:00:44,133 Speaker 2: the rugby world. As always, Greetings once again. 11 00:00:43,973 --> 00:00:48,493 Speaker 3: Greetings, yes, and congratulations are in order for the elliotts 12 00:00:49,013 --> 00:00:53,333 Speaker 3: Smith family. Yes, your sister a new addition to the world. 13 00:00:53,493 --> 00:00:57,333 Speaker 3: Congratulations on being an uncle to young Imagen. So it 14 00:00:57,453 --> 00:01:00,293 Speaker 3: must have been a special occasion and crush church very special. 15 00:01:00,413 --> 00:01:03,453 Speaker 2: Yes, lovely to meet me Imagen and very very exciting 16 00:01:03,493 --> 00:01:05,693 Speaker 2: times for us. So it's been a pretty special week. 17 00:01:05,773 --> 00:01:07,933 Speaker 2: So good to having you podcast listener as well. I'm 18 00:01:07,933 --> 00:01:11,173 Speaker 2: sure it's Jesus to get them young and on the 19 00:01:11,213 --> 00:01:12,573 Speaker 2: podcast train with rag the Direct. 20 00:01:12,653 --> 00:01:17,413 Speaker 3: Look, there's Rugby Direct fans mini populated out in the community. 21 00:01:17,453 --> 00:01:20,813 Speaker 3: I was at a birthday party over the weekend Japanese theme. 22 00:01:21,533 --> 00:01:25,973 Speaker 3: There were summer wrestling Tipanyaki and met some fans of 23 00:01:25,973 --> 00:01:30,693 Speaker 3: the Pods. Shout out to Miles Andrews. Unfortunately he's another 24 00:01:30,773 --> 00:01:36,373 Speaker 3: christ Church bloke. He attended the Razor did a fundraiser 25 00:01:36,733 --> 00:01:40,093 Speaker 3: at the Summer Rugby Club which she attended and turned 26 00:01:40,133 --> 00:01:43,053 Speaker 3: up to this party as a karate kid and we 27 00:01:43,213 --> 00:01:45,253 Speaker 3: just happened to be in the same outfit and he 28 00:01:45,333 --> 00:01:48,013 Speaker 3: was telling me what a fan is of the Pod, So, oh, 29 00:01:48,053 --> 00:01:51,693 Speaker 3: they just can't get away from it, mate, There's fans everywhere. 30 00:01:51,773 --> 00:01:55,413 Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe Scott Robinson did do that thing in Sumner. 31 00:01:55,533 --> 00:01:59,093 Speaker 2: A good friend of mine, Daniel Bell, was doing them singh. 32 00:01:59,133 --> 00:02:01,213 Speaker 2: So I'm intrigued to hear what raisors thoughts were on that. 33 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:04,413 Speaker 2: But well, a week you going out, Razor selected his 34 00:02:06,213 --> 00:02:07,933 Speaker 2: all Blacks and all Blacks of Fiends squads and a 35 00:02:07,933 --> 00:02:10,893 Speaker 2: little bit from his selectors and clad McMillan in the 36 00:02:11,213 --> 00:02:14,733 Speaker 2: as well. I guess it's been a week you've had 37 00:02:14,773 --> 00:02:16,733 Speaker 2: the chance to let it soak him. What were the 38 00:02:16,773 --> 00:02:18,653 Speaker 2: takeaways for you from that all black squad? 39 00:02:19,453 --> 00:02:24,093 Speaker 3: Well, I guess probably one of the most predictable Northern 40 00:02:24,093 --> 00:02:26,613 Speaker 3: tour squads in history. There weren't a lot of headline 41 00:02:26,653 --> 00:02:29,933 Speaker 3: takeaways were there. Cam Ruga great to see him back 42 00:02:30,093 --> 00:02:34,613 Speaker 3: and well first of all to come back and what 43 00:02:34,693 --> 00:02:37,053 Speaker 3: an impression he's made straight off the back. Came off 44 00:02:37,093 --> 00:02:40,293 Speaker 3: the bench for Counties, scored two tries, one with a 45 00:02:40,373 --> 00:02:45,133 Speaker 3: trademark dummy and then started last weekend and Wellington as 46 00:02:45,573 --> 00:02:49,253 Speaker 3: Counties lost their quarter final. So the one change to 47 00:02:49,613 --> 00:02:54,493 Speaker 3: the squads, I. 48 00:02:52,853 --> 00:02:55,413 Speaker 4: Wrote something for the Heralds last week. 49 00:02:56,133 --> 00:03:01,493 Speaker 3: My hope was that that squad would be more picked 50 00:03:01,573 --> 00:03:08,493 Speaker 3: with developments, not necessarily front and center, but more more 51 00:03:08,573 --> 00:03:12,773 Speaker 3: of casting ahead to the future. Guys like Peter Luckeye 52 00:03:12,773 --> 00:03:17,053 Speaker 3: I wanted to see in that squads. No hope them 53 00:03:17,053 --> 00:03:19,493 Speaker 3: I would have had in there over TJ. Peanara, but 54 00:03:19,973 --> 00:03:23,493 Speaker 3: Rays has been very consistent and conservative for me in 55 00:03:23,573 --> 00:03:28,573 Speaker 3: terms of maintaining that level of experience and carrying guys 56 00:03:28,813 --> 00:03:32,053 Speaker 3: as long as he wants, and I guess it probably 57 00:03:32,053 --> 00:03:34,693 Speaker 3: reflects that he's feeling the heat that doesn't he because 58 00:03:34,893 --> 00:03:36,693 Speaker 3: it is going to be a very grueling stretch this 59 00:03:36,733 --> 00:03:43,293 Speaker 3: India tour, the England's, France and Ireland those three tests 60 00:03:43,333 --> 00:03:46,773 Speaker 3: and fifteen days currently six and three, so there's no 61 00:03:46,893 --> 00:03:49,333 Speaker 3: regal room in terms of results, and for me, that 62 00:03:49,413 --> 00:03:52,093 Speaker 3: squad really did reflect the fact he's feeling that the 63 00:03:52,133 --> 00:03:54,053 Speaker 3: heats in his first year as head coached. 64 00:03:54,053 --> 00:03:55,853 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think he feels he's got the rope 65 00:03:56,053 --> 00:03:58,213 Speaker 2: to be able to bring out at Peter Luckeye, or 66 00:03:58,253 --> 00:04:00,573 Speaker 2: to be able to bring in some younger players and 67 00:04:00,613 --> 00:04:02,373 Speaker 2: get them on the road to twenty twenty seven. It's 68 00:04:02,373 --> 00:04:05,733 Speaker 2: focused on the here and now and winning these test matches. 69 00:04:05,773 --> 00:04:07,933 Speaker 2: And you know, we'll probably touch on it a wee 70 00:04:07,933 --> 00:04:11,853 Speaker 2: bit later. But the French, with the sounding that they 71 00:04:11,853 --> 00:04:14,333 Speaker 2: won't send a top squad down to New Zealand next year, 72 00:04:14,333 --> 00:04:16,493 Speaker 2: perhaps gives them the opportunity to bring in some of 73 00:04:16,493 --> 00:04:19,973 Speaker 2: those players next year, perhaps earlier than they may have considered. 74 00:04:20,013 --> 00:04:22,893 Speaker 2: So maybe they're sort of balancing those two things out. 75 00:04:22,893 --> 00:04:25,693 Speaker 2: But I just don't think there's the rope there to 76 00:04:25,733 --> 00:04:29,093 Speaker 2: be tinkering with too many selections. And I think you're right, 77 00:04:29,093 --> 00:04:31,253 Speaker 2: there is the pressure that comes with the All Blacks 78 00:04:31,293 --> 00:04:34,733 Speaker 2: job and the pressure that with having three losses already 79 00:04:34,733 --> 00:04:39,333 Speaker 2: in this tenure is feeling. So I don't think it 80 00:04:39,373 --> 00:04:42,293 Speaker 2: was a surprise that there weren't many changes. Peter luck 81 00:04:42,333 --> 00:04:45,013 Speaker 2: I said, a good season for Wellington before that the Hurricanes. 82 00:04:45,053 --> 00:04:46,893 Speaker 2: He could have been a player that comes in, but 83 00:04:46,933 --> 00:04:48,933 Speaker 2: I just don't think there was too much room to 84 00:04:48,973 --> 00:04:50,733 Speaker 2: bring in too many other players. And that's where I 85 00:04:50,733 --> 00:04:52,653 Speaker 2: suppose you look at the All Blacks fifteen and go, well, 86 00:04:52,693 --> 00:04:54,933 Speaker 2: if there's injuries, these are the players that are going 87 00:04:54,973 --> 00:04:58,333 Speaker 2: to be called in, and the All Blacks fifteen squad 88 00:04:58,333 --> 00:05:00,053 Speaker 2: with a wee bit of a nod to the future, 89 00:05:00,093 --> 00:05:03,573 Speaker 2: but at times also a look back as well. You know, 90 00:05:03,613 --> 00:05:06,373 Speaker 2: Ricky Ricketteally is somehow not in the top six hookers 91 00:05:06,813 --> 00:05:09,573 Speaker 2: in the country, which is stagger and you go, okay, well, 92 00:05:09,573 --> 00:05:11,293 Speaker 2: maybe they're looking to the future. But then Kurt Eckland, 93 00:05:11,333 --> 00:05:14,453 Speaker 2: who's older than Rocky Rittelly, is in the squad. They 94 00:05:14,573 --> 00:05:17,453 Speaker 2: gone with you. Bridie McCallister out of the Crusader's Bradley 95 00:05:17,493 --> 00:05:21,093 Speaker 2: Slater out of Tartanaki, Rocky Rocketell he's Taranaki teammate as well, 96 00:05:21,173 --> 00:05:24,653 Speaker 2: So there are some eyebrow raising selections there as well. 97 00:05:24,653 --> 00:05:28,293 Speaker 2: But if you're Ricky Ricottelly, you're probably going, well, how 98 00:05:28,333 --> 00:05:29,733 Speaker 2: am I not in the top six sockers in the 99 00:05:29,773 --> 00:05:32,093 Speaker 2: country when I started for the Super Rugby Champions. 100 00:05:32,693 --> 00:05:33,013 Speaker 4: That's it. 101 00:05:33,173 --> 00:05:37,213 Speaker 3: And Eklund on the bench for the whole of the 102 00:05:37,453 --> 00:05:40,733 Speaker 3: Blues championship. The Blues lineout was by far and away 103 00:05:40,853 --> 00:05:42,693 Speaker 3: the best in the competition. I think it was eighty 104 00:05:42,773 --> 00:05:47,333 Speaker 3: nine percent this year. You know, he's not a damaging 105 00:05:47,373 --> 00:05:50,893 Speaker 3: ball carrier by any stretcher, Ricktell. He probably lacks a 106 00:05:50,893 --> 00:05:54,333 Speaker 3: bit of punch with ball in hands, but he's busy. 107 00:05:54,573 --> 00:05:56,973 Speaker 3: His lineout throwing is very effective, and that is an 108 00:05:57,013 --> 00:06:00,653 Speaker 3: area of concern for the All Blacks. Behind Cody Taylor, 109 00:06:01,053 --> 00:06:08,573 Speaker 3: George Bell and Asafa Armore not noted lineout throwers, and 110 00:06:09,573 --> 00:06:13,213 Speaker 3: yeah behind them, I think Bradley Slater deputizes for Rica 111 00:06:13,293 --> 00:06:17,893 Speaker 3: Telly in Tartanucky, so that was one very perplexing selection. 112 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:20,213 Speaker 3: Other guys that are unlucky to miss the cat Braden 113 00:06:20,293 --> 00:06:23,693 Speaker 3: Yossi very good for the Hurricanes this year and has 114 00:06:23,693 --> 00:06:27,973 Speaker 3: performed well for a struggling mun Or two falal Fuckatava. 115 00:06:28,013 --> 00:06:31,693 Speaker 3: The aor Blecks fifteen only have two half backs. He's 116 00:06:31,813 --> 00:06:33,773 Speaker 3: gone backwards in quite a big way, but I thought 117 00:06:34,053 --> 00:06:37,093 Speaker 3: has actually performed quite well for Hawk's Bay this year 118 00:06:37,173 --> 00:06:40,333 Speaker 3: and then the midfield to a degree as well. Daniel 119 00:06:40,413 --> 00:06:44,853 Speaker 3: Rohn has been very good for Taranuki but look, I 120 00:06:44,893 --> 00:06:48,453 Speaker 3: think it's fair to say that the All Blacks coaching 121 00:06:48,453 --> 00:06:52,413 Speaker 3: team raiser largely packed the All Blacks fifteen, and that's 122 00:06:52,453 --> 00:06:55,533 Speaker 3: what you'd expect, And I am intrigued to see how 123 00:06:57,453 --> 00:07:01,493 Speaker 3: those squads interact, how many players shift in between those 124 00:07:01,533 --> 00:07:05,733 Speaker 3: two teams, and probably what effect that has on the 125 00:07:05,813 --> 00:07:08,893 Speaker 3: or Blecks fifteen more than anything, because the All Blacks 126 00:07:08,893 --> 00:07:11,893 Speaker 3: of name thirty six players coming and going can be 127 00:07:11,933 --> 00:07:14,333 Speaker 3: a bit destabilizing, particularly when you're only going to be 128 00:07:14,933 --> 00:07:17,733 Speaker 3: in You're only playing two matches with the All Blacks fifteen. 129 00:07:18,773 --> 00:07:20,893 Speaker 3: So just how many of those players go to Japan 130 00:07:21,773 --> 00:07:24,453 Speaker 3: and get mixed and match throughout that tour. 131 00:07:24,973 --> 00:07:28,693 Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, that's the interesting thing. And what chances they get. 132 00:07:28,733 --> 00:07:31,813 Speaker 2: It's obviously only two games, so you'd suspect that everyone's 133 00:07:31,813 --> 00:07:33,973 Speaker 2: probably going to get one start. Maybe if you look 134 00:07:34,013 --> 00:07:36,733 Speaker 2: at that, perhaps apart from the props and hookers in 135 00:07:36,733 --> 00:07:39,053 Speaker 2: front rows, they're probably likely to mix and match some 136 00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:42,293 Speaker 2: of those selections for the Monster game and the Georgia game. 137 00:07:43,013 --> 00:07:46,013 Speaker 2: No Jacob brother my Tovurki Neepkins question whether he would 138 00:07:46,053 --> 00:07:47,933 Speaker 2: have hopefully been there. I think he's been very very 139 00:07:47,933 --> 00:07:51,453 Speaker 2: good for Taranaki this year before he suffered that neck injury, 140 00:07:51,453 --> 00:07:55,533 Speaker 2: which sounds pretty serious and lucky it was caught as 141 00:07:55,573 --> 00:07:58,653 Speaker 2: well by the doctors. After that ran fairly shield challenge 142 00:07:58,653 --> 00:08:01,213 Speaker 2: against Tasman the week prior. He missed out on the squad, 143 00:08:01,253 --> 00:08:03,053 Speaker 2: but we don't know whether he would have been in there, 144 00:08:03,413 --> 00:08:06,573 Speaker 2: Shawn Stevenson. The drums are beating. It's you know, a 145 00:08:06,573 --> 00:08:08,333 Speaker 2: lot of rumors going around at the moment that he's 146 00:08:08,373 --> 00:08:12,173 Speaker 2: Warriors bound in twenty twenty five. This could be his 147 00:08:12,293 --> 00:08:15,333 Speaker 2: last hourrah in rugby union as well. Nothing confirmed on 148 00:08:15,373 --> 00:08:18,533 Speaker 2: that front as well, But it's an intriguing squad because 149 00:08:18,573 --> 00:08:20,533 Speaker 2: the mixed match of players of youth I said before, 150 00:08:20,573 --> 00:08:22,613 Speaker 2: but also some of those players that have been in 151 00:08:22,653 --> 00:08:24,773 Speaker 2: the All Blacks in modern adawa and then come out 152 00:08:24,773 --> 00:08:29,533 Speaker 2: of it again, you know Dallas McLeod in last year 153 00:08:30,093 --> 00:08:34,973 Speaker 2: out again. So Brandon also can consider himself very very unlucky. 154 00:08:35,773 --> 00:08:37,653 Speaker 2: But there is a lot of depth at loose Ford 155 00:08:38,773 --> 00:08:42,333 Speaker 2: at the moment as a whole, not necessarily in specific jusies, 156 00:08:42,333 --> 00:08:44,373 Speaker 2: but I think if you go look at the loose 157 00:08:44,413 --> 00:08:46,653 Speaker 2: Ford stocks that are pretty deep in New Zealand rugby 158 00:08:46,653 --> 00:08:48,173 Speaker 2: at the moment, and some of that Braden you'll say 159 00:08:48,293 --> 00:08:51,653 Speaker 2: has missed out in Hoskin. So Tutu, who I don't know, 160 00:08:51,733 --> 00:08:53,853 Speaker 2: has actually had a great MPC. In all honesty is 161 00:08:54,173 --> 00:08:55,853 Speaker 2: has made the cart and you know there's a lot 162 00:08:55,853 --> 00:08:56,813 Speaker 2: of questions around that too. 163 00:08:57,413 --> 00:08:58,493 Speaker 4: Yeah, Hoskins too. 164 00:08:59,013 --> 00:09:01,813 Speaker 3: A lot of talk about him, isn't there with a 165 00:09:01,893 --> 00:09:06,373 Speaker 3: kid at Iwana putting up his Instagram posts saying basically 166 00:09:06,413 --> 00:09:10,173 Speaker 3: should deflict to England's and look that the avenue is 167 00:09:10,213 --> 00:09:12,013 Speaker 3: open to him. He hasn't played for the All Blacks 168 00:09:12,013 --> 00:09:16,373 Speaker 3: now for what two years, and so could very well 169 00:09:16,413 --> 00:09:20,093 Speaker 3: be eligible for England or feed you down the line. 170 00:09:20,973 --> 00:09:22,613 Speaker 3: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 171 00:09:22,613 --> 00:09:25,533 Speaker 3: All Blacks fifteen is not a capture team now, so 172 00:09:25,693 --> 00:09:31,493 Speaker 3: it doesn't affect his eligibility. It's a wee bit of 173 00:09:31,533 --> 00:09:33,813 Speaker 3: a step forward for Hoskins making this team because he 174 00:09:33,853 --> 00:09:39,053 Speaker 3: didn't last year the All Blacks fifteen. But I really 175 00:09:39,093 --> 00:09:42,453 Speaker 3: don't see him cracking that All Blacks team anytime soon. 176 00:09:43,053 --> 00:09:47,373 Speaker 3: From the conversations I've had behind the scenes, I think 177 00:09:47,373 --> 00:09:50,493 Speaker 3: they the All Blecks haven't been impressed like you with 178 00:09:50,613 --> 00:09:54,533 Speaker 3: what he's done during the NPC, and they wanted to 179 00:09:54,573 --> 00:09:57,813 Speaker 3: see more of the feedback around what he does off 180 00:09:57,853 --> 00:10:01,813 Speaker 3: the ball has worked great despite being the Super Rugby 181 00:10:01,893 --> 00:10:05,613 Speaker 3: MVP this year. So a step forward and making this team, 182 00:10:05,613 --> 00:10:07,293 Speaker 3: but I don't think it's going to enough be enough 183 00:10:07,333 --> 00:10:10,173 Speaker 3: to keep him and his on rugby. Just a couple 184 00:10:10,173 --> 00:10:15,613 Speaker 3: of other quick points there. Kenny Naholo really rewarded for form. 185 00:10:15,453 --> 00:10:19,213 Speaker 3: He's been in great touch for Tartanuki, very consistent, strong 186 00:10:19,253 --> 00:10:23,333 Speaker 3: over the ball, big presence in the finishing department and 187 00:10:23,413 --> 00:10:27,173 Speaker 3: Josh Jacob very much the future at number ten. 188 00:10:27,493 --> 00:10:28,933 Speaker 4: He is tough man. 189 00:10:29,093 --> 00:10:33,413 Speaker 3: He took so much punishment at the weekend for Tartanuki 190 00:10:34,013 --> 00:10:36,933 Speaker 3: when they went down Ta Wakato in their quarter final. 191 00:10:37,173 --> 00:10:38,493 Speaker 4: Was battered, he was bloodied. 192 00:10:38,853 --> 00:10:42,693 Speaker 3: He challenges the line and he's probably gone up or 193 00:10:42,733 --> 00:10:48,213 Speaker 3: rung with Bret Cameron's injury. Potentially but very interesting prospect. 194 00:10:48,293 --> 00:10:51,573 Speaker 3: Josh Jacob. My understanding was the Crusaders approached him and 195 00:10:51,573 --> 00:10:57,333 Speaker 3: he turned them down, which is interesting because he you'd 196 00:10:57,333 --> 00:10:59,413 Speaker 3: think he would have gone straight in to start there. 197 00:10:59,893 --> 00:11:03,813 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely the talent that he shone last year in 198 00:11:03,853 --> 00:11:06,173 Speaker 2: the NBC in twenty twenty three, but then has built 199 00:11:06,173 --> 00:11:08,653 Speaker 2: on that in twenty twenty four. I guess the big 200 00:11:08,733 --> 00:11:11,653 Speaker 2: challenge it's a big step up from in PC. Didn't 201 00:11:11,653 --> 00:11:14,133 Speaker 2: get a lot of opportunities at super rugby level this year, 202 00:11:14,933 --> 00:11:17,253 Speaker 2: but to go to attract the All Blacks League this 203 00:11:17,293 --> 00:11:19,933 Speaker 2: election on basically on the basis of MPC form and 204 00:11:19,973 --> 00:11:21,573 Speaker 2: go right, we want to see you in an All 205 00:11:21,573 --> 00:11:24,693 Speaker 2: Blacks fifteen environment playing months to playing Georgia, I think 206 00:11:24,773 --> 00:11:27,693 Speaker 2: is a big statement about where they see him and 207 00:11:28,133 --> 00:11:30,773 Speaker 2: what kind of path they see potentially for him in 208 00:11:31,413 --> 00:11:33,773 Speaker 2: higher honors. The question I was, as you said, turn 209 00:11:33,813 --> 00:11:38,253 Speaker 2: down the Crusaders, he's at the Chiefs. How much game 210 00:11:38,253 --> 00:11:41,093 Speaker 2: time are you going to get behind Damian McKenzie in 211 00:11:41,133 --> 00:11:44,653 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. That's the real question because he could 212 00:11:44,693 --> 00:11:49,453 Speaker 2: just be relegated to the bench again unless they change 213 00:11:49,493 --> 00:11:52,093 Speaker 2: things around and Clayton Millan, who's going to be coaching him, 214 00:11:52,093 --> 00:11:53,933 Speaker 2: and there's All Blacks fifteen and goes all right, well 215 00:11:54,173 --> 00:11:57,893 Speaker 2: Damien you're back to fifteen and Josh Jacom you're playing ten. 216 00:11:58,573 --> 00:12:00,853 Speaker 3: It was a very interesting scenario. We're going to touch 217 00:12:00,893 --> 00:12:05,893 Speaker 3: on a later around Brick Cameron. But the New Zealand 218 00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:12,173 Speaker 3: first five eight stocks compressed and two franchises, the Chiefs 219 00:12:12,173 --> 00:12:15,773 Speaker 3: and the Blues. So the Chiefs have McKenzie. Caleb Trusk 220 00:12:15,853 --> 00:12:19,093 Speaker 3: has come back playing well for the plenty of this 221 00:12:19,213 --> 00:12:22,933 Speaker 3: year and Josh Jacob so he's by no means Jacob 222 00:12:22,933 --> 00:12:26,093 Speaker 3: A Locke as the even the secondary playmaker at the Chiefs. 223 00:12:26,533 --> 00:12:30,613 Speaker 3: But I don't know, I knows the young father, so 224 00:12:30,693 --> 00:12:32,253 Speaker 3: maybe that played into his thinking in. 225 00:12:32,293 --> 00:12:33,773 Speaker 2: Terms of he's got a second on the wor I 226 00:12:33,773 --> 00:12:34,413 Speaker 2: think as well. 227 00:12:34,333 --> 00:12:38,133 Speaker 3: Being close to home and the neck and it is 228 00:12:38,133 --> 00:12:40,893 Speaker 3: a great story. He's a guy that's genuinely emerged from 229 00:12:40,893 --> 00:12:44,053 Speaker 3: grass roots. He could have gone to taking a chance, 230 00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:46,973 Speaker 3: gone to christ Church as a starting playmaker. But as 231 00:12:47,013 --> 00:12:51,373 Speaker 3: we've discussed on this pod many times, Richie Muonger odds 232 00:12:51,413 --> 00:12:54,733 Speaker 3: on to potentially come home potentially for the All Blacks 233 00:12:54,733 --> 00:12:55,573 Speaker 3: next year, maybe. 234 00:12:55,413 --> 00:12:56,613 Speaker 4: The Crusaders the year after. 235 00:12:57,493 --> 00:13:02,653 Speaker 3: Where does that lead McKenzie unsure so, but from if 236 00:13:02,693 --> 00:13:04,653 Speaker 3: you take a step back from a wider context than 237 00:13:04,693 --> 00:13:09,453 Speaker 3: Super Rugby, the Blues, Stephen Peterfeitzter, Harry plum Boden, Barrett's 238 00:13:09,893 --> 00:13:12,613 Speaker 3: Zan Sullivan, they are stacked and so are the Chiefs 239 00:13:12,653 --> 00:13:16,373 Speaker 3: and the Crusaders. Hilanders and Canes are scrapping for playmakers. 240 00:13:16,413 --> 00:13:20,053 Speaker 3: So everyone would love to get their hands on Josh Jacob. 241 00:13:20,133 --> 00:13:23,373 Speaker 2: In an ideal scenario, you'd have them spread out across 242 00:13:23,373 --> 00:13:26,253 Speaker 2: the five franchises and they're playing off every week against 243 00:13:26,293 --> 00:13:28,133 Speaker 2: each other. I mean, the Crusaders are in back the 244 00:13:28,173 --> 00:13:32,373 Speaker 2: time they had Mertons and Major and Carter and whoever else, 245 00:13:32,413 --> 00:13:34,253 Speaker 2: stayed about five of them and they're all playing various 246 00:13:34,253 --> 00:13:35,213 Speaker 2: positions in the back line. 247 00:13:35,253 --> 00:13:37,853 Speaker 4: Come off the bench coinslated to go to the Landers. 248 00:13:38,373 --> 00:13:42,133 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean it's happened before. You'd love to 249 00:13:42,133 --> 00:13:44,133 Speaker 2: see it perhaps spread around it and then you genuinely 250 00:13:44,133 --> 00:13:47,013 Speaker 2: get to see those players. I mean of draft format 251 00:13:47,093 --> 00:13:50,813 Speaker 2: or something similar might enable that, but it's not the 252 00:13:51,293 --> 00:13:52,693 Speaker 2: contract system we have at the moment. 253 00:13:53,053 --> 00:13:53,213 Speaker 4: Yeah. 254 00:13:53,253 --> 00:13:56,613 Speaker 3: I think it's probably time we had a conversation about 255 00:13:56,653 --> 00:14:00,653 Speaker 3: a genuine super rugby salary cap, because there is one, 256 00:14:01,013 --> 00:14:06,613 Speaker 3: but it is deemed irrelevant when teams like the Blues 257 00:14:06,733 --> 00:14:10,213 Speaker 3: have such superior finance backing and they can put massive 258 00:14:10,893 --> 00:14:15,173 Speaker 3: third party payment options in front of players that distort 259 00:14:15,253 --> 00:14:20,373 Speaker 3: things massively and leave other franchises they can't compete. So 260 00:14:20,653 --> 00:14:25,373 Speaker 3: the NRL that as a real success that the talent 261 00:14:25,453 --> 00:14:28,053 Speaker 3: has to spread. You look at the Panthers, they won 262 00:14:28,093 --> 00:14:32,733 Speaker 3: a title and every year some of their biggest superstars 263 00:14:32,733 --> 00:14:35,493 Speaker 3: have to go elsewhere because they can't allfer under the cap. 264 00:14:35,573 --> 00:14:40,053 Speaker 3: Jerome Leuey is going next year, so super raguey salary 265 00:14:40,053 --> 00:14:44,573 Speaker 3: cap doesn't really work. And until that is looked at, 266 00:14:44,813 --> 00:14:48,453 Speaker 3: you are going to have these pockets of depth within 267 00:14:48,493 --> 00:14:50,653 Speaker 3: the franchises and other ones missing out. 268 00:14:50,813 --> 00:14:53,693 Speaker 2: Yeah, to be honest, I think they should go back 269 00:14:53,693 --> 00:14:56,493 Speaker 2: to the days of the protected draft where you and 270 00:14:56,533 --> 00:14:58,933 Speaker 2: it's different now because it doesn't feed in from the 271 00:14:58,933 --> 00:15:01,733 Speaker 2: provincial unions like they used to, but you could protect 272 00:15:01,933 --> 00:15:06,133 Speaker 2: x number of players from your provincial catchment area and 273 00:15:06,173 --> 00:15:08,333 Speaker 2: then all those other players went back into a pool 274 00:15:08,933 --> 00:15:12,293 Speaker 2: and could be moved out to the other five franchises, 275 00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:15,133 Speaker 2: and the squads are bigger now. The contracting systems different. 276 00:15:15,173 --> 00:15:17,933 Speaker 2: You're contracted directly via the Super Ugby franchises, not the 277 00:15:17,933 --> 00:15:23,373 Speaker 2: provincial unions. But that would level the playing field quite considerable. 278 00:15:23,413 --> 00:15:25,893 Speaker 2: If you could, say, protect twenty eight players from your 279 00:15:26,893 --> 00:15:30,173 Speaker 2: catchment area or whatever it might be, and then everyone 280 00:15:30,213 --> 00:15:31,933 Speaker 2: else is up for grabs. That would make some tricky 281 00:15:31,973 --> 00:15:35,213 Speaker 2: decisions and it would mean players would be more likely 282 00:15:35,253 --> 00:15:37,493 Speaker 2: to move around for opportunities. But again, this is not 283 00:15:37,493 --> 00:15:40,693 Speaker 2: the contracting system we have and it's not the world 284 00:15:40,693 --> 00:15:41,893 Speaker 2: we live in twenty twenty four. 285 00:15:42,413 --> 00:15:42,893 Speaker 4: No it's not. 286 00:15:43,093 --> 00:15:46,813 Speaker 3: But things change and we have to get the new 287 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:49,573 Speaker 3: Super Rugby boss on closer to the season and put 288 00:15:49,573 --> 00:15:50,253 Speaker 3: them under the girl. 289 00:15:50,253 --> 00:15:51,853 Speaker 2: I used to love the draft and finding out who 290 00:15:51,933 --> 00:15:54,653 Speaker 2: had gone where, and you know whiching PC players had 291 00:15:54,653 --> 00:15:58,013 Speaker 2: suddenly moved to various other parts of the country. Right, 292 00:15:58,093 --> 00:15:59,773 Speaker 2: let's move on. We'll get to the NPC shortly. But 293 00:15:59,813 --> 00:16:03,453 Speaker 2: the Black Ferns have finished their campaign for season twenty 294 00:16:03,533 --> 00:16:06,693 Speaker 2: twenty four w XV with a winover France off the 295 00:16:06,733 --> 00:16:09,693 Speaker 2: back of a lost to England, lost to Ireland and 296 00:16:09,773 --> 00:16:12,973 Speaker 2: the WXV then a prior loss to England at Twickenham 297 00:16:13,573 --> 00:16:16,493 Speaker 2: as well a good win to end the season. Again. 298 00:16:16,493 --> 00:16:18,413 Speaker 2: It's a tough French team that had won five of 299 00:16:18,493 --> 00:16:22,293 Speaker 2: the last six against New Zealand. But I guess there's 300 00:16:22,333 --> 00:16:24,453 Speaker 2: a lot of questions around this team where they are 301 00:16:24,493 --> 00:16:26,573 Speaker 2: at ten months out from a Rugby World Cup in 302 00:16:26,653 --> 00:16:28,933 Speaker 2: England next year. Now, England were pushed pretty hard by 303 00:16:28,973 --> 00:16:31,293 Speaker 2: Canada and that final yesterday and Canada had to lead 304 00:16:31,853 --> 00:16:34,693 Speaker 2: in the second spell. But I think on most days 305 00:16:34,853 --> 00:16:37,613 Speaker 2: England's to be honest, fifteen to twenty points better than 306 00:16:37,613 --> 00:16:39,773 Speaker 2: most other teams in world rugby at the moment and 307 00:16:39,813 --> 00:16:42,853 Speaker 2: women's rugby, but still New Zealand need to close that 308 00:16:42,933 --> 00:16:45,093 Speaker 2: gap if it all possible to mount our World Cup 309 00:16:45,133 --> 00:16:46,813 Speaker 2: surge for next year. So what have you seen out 310 00:16:46,813 --> 00:16:49,853 Speaker 2: of the Black Funds, out of this tournament and where 311 00:16:49,853 --> 00:16:51,533 Speaker 2: do you think they're at ten months out from next 312 00:16:51,573 --> 00:16:52,253 Speaker 2: year's World Cup. 313 00:16:52,973 --> 00:16:57,493 Speaker 3: It's a tricky question that I think this tournaments is 314 00:16:57,533 --> 00:16:59,533 Speaker 3: a line in the sand about where they are and 315 00:16:59,573 --> 00:17:04,533 Speaker 3: it has been a disappointment. It was good finish the 316 00:17:04,573 --> 00:17:06,573 Speaker 3: second half in particular, they came over the top of 317 00:17:06,573 --> 00:17:08,213 Speaker 3: the French and rarely put them to the So. 318 00:17:09,813 --> 00:17:11,453 Speaker 4: They are very committed to. 319 00:17:13,013 --> 00:17:16,533 Speaker 3: The Wayne Smith type blueprint of using the ball attacking 320 00:17:16,893 --> 00:17:18,773 Speaker 3: and that comes with a lot of risk and reward. 321 00:17:18,893 --> 00:17:21,053 Speaker 3: I think they can score a lot of points, but 322 00:17:21,853 --> 00:17:24,373 Speaker 3: defensively there are some real concerns there. I think they 323 00:17:24,493 --> 00:17:28,413 Speaker 3: conceded was it seven tries against England and you're never 324 00:17:28,453 --> 00:17:31,253 Speaker 3: going to win a Test match conceding that many points, 325 00:17:31,293 --> 00:17:34,453 Speaker 3: so that's one massive area of improvement. I think they 326 00:17:34,453 --> 00:17:39,093 Speaker 3: finished fourth with a one one to win two loss record, 327 00:17:39,613 --> 00:17:42,573 Speaker 3: lost to Ireland for the first time, who improved massively, 328 00:17:43,133 --> 00:17:48,573 Speaker 3: so women's rugby on the whole was probably getting more competitive. 329 00:17:49,053 --> 00:17:53,133 Speaker 3: Ireland the big movers there Canada, as you mentioned, pushed 330 00:17:53,173 --> 00:17:57,733 Speaker 3: England who have won I think twenty games in succession now, 331 00:17:58,653 --> 00:18:02,373 Speaker 3: so they are the standard bearers. But it's a massive 332 00:18:02,413 --> 00:18:06,453 Speaker 3: challenge for the Black Ferns to improve now because I 333 00:18:06,493 --> 00:18:11,093 Speaker 3: think they did improve and this level of opposition is 334 00:18:11,573 --> 00:18:15,253 Speaker 3: so important and their lead into the World Cup now 335 00:18:15,533 --> 00:18:19,453 Speaker 3: is you don't get that same quality of opponents. They 336 00:18:19,453 --> 00:18:22,133 Speaker 3: come back, they play alpacky and then I think it's 337 00:18:22,133 --> 00:18:27,253 Speaker 3: into the pack for and really your strongest competition there 338 00:18:27,373 --> 00:18:30,133 Speaker 3: is Canada. And so you're not going to play England 339 00:18:30,133 --> 00:18:31,893 Speaker 3: again before the World Cup, You're not going to play 340 00:18:31,933 --> 00:18:34,053 Speaker 3: France who probably come back to the pack a bit. 341 00:18:35,013 --> 00:18:38,253 Speaker 3: And so how much are they going to improve in 342 00:18:38,333 --> 00:18:39,293 Speaker 3: that next ten months. 343 00:18:39,493 --> 00:18:42,253 Speaker 2: There's not a lot of time is there they'll play 344 00:18:42,293 --> 00:18:44,933 Speaker 2: obviously you'd think of Lauri or Rder. Game's Australia who 345 00:18:45,213 --> 00:18:49,613 Speaker 2: have improved. Actually they won WX two and look to 346 00:18:49,613 --> 00:18:52,893 Speaker 2: be improving under their coach Joe Yap but there's still 347 00:18:52,973 --> 00:18:55,173 Speaker 2: you would think a big gulf between New Zealand and Australia. 348 00:18:55,213 --> 00:18:58,133 Speaker 2: Having never lost to the Willa Rus I think there's 349 00:18:58,133 --> 00:19:01,173 Speaker 2: still some selection issues around this team. They don't quite 350 00:19:01,213 --> 00:19:04,253 Speaker 2: know the best mix in crucial positions or big best 351 00:19:04,293 --> 00:19:07,493 Speaker 2: selections in crucial positions. I thought that the Atana will 352 00:19:07,533 --> 00:19:11,333 Speaker 2: hire a half back. Yesterday was very very good. My 353 00:19:11,533 --> 00:19:14,173 Speaker 2: Joseph struggled a little bit against the preciure that England 354 00:19:14,213 --> 00:19:17,453 Speaker 2: and Ireland put on her in consecutive weeks. I'm not 355 00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:20,413 Speaker 2: sold on Hannah King as a test number ten. You've 356 00:19:20,413 --> 00:19:22,053 Speaker 2: got the world former World Player of the Year, really 357 00:19:22,093 --> 00:19:26,053 Speaker 2: heye demand playing twelve. I'd move her into ten. There's 358 00:19:26,213 --> 00:19:28,213 Speaker 2: you know, some other players around midfield that you could 359 00:19:28,253 --> 00:19:31,413 Speaker 2: change around Amy to see, hopefully back from concussion and 360 00:19:33,053 --> 00:19:35,013 Speaker 2: some other tweaks. The I's don't think they've got that 361 00:19:35,253 --> 00:19:39,453 Speaker 2: right playmaking max nineteen and twelve at the moment to 362 00:19:39,493 --> 00:19:42,533 Speaker 2: be able to attack wings. Very very good. Caitlin Vahaklos 363 00:19:42,573 --> 00:19:44,493 Speaker 2: had a storming season a shea letier and great to 364 00:19:44,493 --> 00:19:47,373 Speaker 2: see her back loose. Forwards I think are up there 365 00:19:47,373 --> 00:19:49,013 Speaker 2: with some of the best in the world. Very very 366 00:19:49,053 --> 00:19:53,893 Speaker 2: fast attacking players. Front row not too bad. Would be 367 00:19:53,893 --> 00:19:55,653 Speaker 2: better to have some more depth in the props. I 368 00:19:55,693 --> 00:19:58,693 Speaker 2: think so there are, but there are key positions and 369 00:19:58,693 --> 00:20:00,293 Speaker 2: I think it's if you can sort out that nineteen 370 00:20:00,373 --> 00:20:03,493 Speaker 2: and twelve and get confidence in your playmaking access around 371 00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:06,733 Speaker 2: that point in the game, then they'll take another step forward. 372 00:20:06,773 --> 00:20:09,213 Speaker 2: But I think that op key competition is canna be 373 00:20:09,293 --> 00:20:10,333 Speaker 2: very very interesting around that. 374 00:20:11,053 --> 00:20:12,173 Speaker 4: Yes, it's a great point. 375 00:20:12,453 --> 00:20:15,493 Speaker 3: The inexperience in the halves isn't it's it's such a 376 00:20:15,493 --> 00:20:19,253 Speaker 3: massive step up from Alpaky to the test arena, particularly 377 00:20:19,293 --> 00:20:23,573 Speaker 3: against the lights of England and Canada, and you only 378 00:20:23,653 --> 00:20:27,053 Speaker 3: learn by doing, and so that those will be valuable experiences. 379 00:20:27,053 --> 00:20:31,293 Speaker 3: But yeah, ro had to demand still hugely influential from twelve. 380 00:20:31,533 --> 00:20:37,293 Speaker 3: Sylvia Brunt just absolutely exceptional talent. Saw somebody call her 381 00:20:37,493 --> 00:20:39,573 Speaker 3: you know, you don't have to make comparisons, but people 382 00:20:39,853 --> 00:20:42,453 Speaker 3: do ineably do that, you know, the mananu of the 383 00:20:42,853 --> 00:20:46,813 Speaker 3: of the of the woman's game. She's a phenomenal talent. 384 00:20:46,853 --> 00:20:51,253 Speaker 3: I was still only in her early twenties. But you're right, 385 00:20:51,333 --> 00:20:53,813 Speaker 3: they need to sort out that halves access and probably 386 00:20:53,893 --> 00:20:56,773 Speaker 3: commit to a couple of players pick and stick, give 387 00:20:56,813 --> 00:21:01,533 Speaker 3: them the next ten months to develop, because so important 388 00:21:01,573 --> 00:21:03,133 Speaker 3: to get those that access right. 389 00:21:03,333 --> 00:21:06,533 Speaker 2: And certainly is and Opaky forms a very very interesting 390 00:21:06,573 --> 00:21:09,253 Speaker 2: part of the selections next year as well. With that 391 00:21:09,413 --> 00:21:13,813 Speaker 2: on the line NPC semifinals sets and a couple of upsets. 392 00:21:14,293 --> 00:21:19,293 Speaker 2: How good Canterbury back from the deads two weeks ago 393 00:21:19,933 --> 00:21:25,973 Speaker 2: lost to Harbor by sixty points. Now out revenge on 394 00:21:26,133 --> 00:21:29,653 Speaker 2: little brother Tasman. How good is that with a very 395 00:21:29,653 --> 00:21:33,253 Speaker 2: good performance from Canterbury. Didn't see it coming, thought they 396 00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:35,253 Speaker 2: might have been able to get the wind just given 397 00:21:36,493 --> 00:21:39,173 Speaker 2: Tasman's got a few injuries. Even black Head are out injured, 398 00:21:39,213 --> 00:21:42,413 Speaker 2: so questioned there around the All Blacks for him potentially 399 00:21:42,413 --> 00:21:45,293 Speaker 2: in the Crusaders. Canterbury had some players back from the 400 00:21:45,333 --> 00:21:48,533 Speaker 2: Crusaders but also from the All Blacks as well, so 401 00:21:48,653 --> 00:21:51,573 Speaker 2: good win for them. Taranaki maybe a bit of Ranfillly 402 00:21:51,613 --> 00:21:57,333 Speaker 2: shield hangover there on Saturday night against Wakatto. But look, 403 00:21:57,333 --> 00:21:59,253 Speaker 2: a couple of upsets, which is what you want from 404 00:21:59,253 --> 00:22:02,173 Speaker 2: the NPC quarter finals unless you're the top set of texts. 405 00:22:03,413 --> 00:22:06,973 Speaker 3: Look, I think this has been a fantastic competition this 406 00:22:07,093 --> 00:22:09,333 Speaker 3: year and we will touch on it later in terms 407 00:22:09,333 --> 00:22:12,933 Speaker 3: of the rules, but just the style of rugby that 408 00:22:13,093 --> 00:22:17,133 Speaker 3: the use of the ball, the pace, the intense the 409 00:22:17,253 --> 00:22:21,573 Speaker 3: unpredictability of it. It really has been exceptional to watch. 410 00:22:22,173 --> 00:22:25,493 Speaker 3: So that's the first point. The second is that the 411 00:22:25,533 --> 00:22:27,653 Speaker 3: returning All Blacks have had a massive impact. 412 00:22:28,173 --> 00:22:29,733 Speaker 4: Canterbury were hugely impressive. 413 00:22:30,813 --> 00:22:34,053 Speaker 3: The guys that made a massive difference with them Sun 414 00:22:34,093 --> 00:22:36,973 Speaker 3: to a degree where Fletch Newell came back because the 415 00:22:37,293 --> 00:22:42,413 Speaker 3: Canterbury front row had struggled scrum time, George Bell, Sam Dowry. 416 00:22:43,333 --> 00:22:45,973 Speaker 3: Those All Blacks came back and had a big impact. 417 00:22:47,013 --> 00:22:50,413 Speaker 3: But I don't know whether the All Blacks will be 418 00:22:50,453 --> 00:22:53,573 Speaker 3: available this weekend. Most of them will travel this week 419 00:22:53,693 --> 00:22:55,813 Speaker 3: to go to Japan, so it's gonna be interesting to 420 00:22:55,853 --> 00:22:59,173 Speaker 3: see what teams come out next weekend and other guys. 421 00:22:59,253 --> 00:23:04,653 Speaker 3: Luke Jacobson was huge for Wakato both defensively and at 422 00:23:04,653 --> 00:23:08,733 Speaker 3: the breakdown and their upset of Tartanaki. So it is 423 00:23:08,773 --> 00:23:11,973 Speaker 3: really telling to see those All Blacks come back effectively 424 00:23:11,973 --> 00:23:15,493 Speaker 3: two rungs down from from Test footy and you know, 425 00:23:15,573 --> 00:23:20,573 Speaker 3: really assert their authority. But yeah, I think the renfoody 426 00:23:20,653 --> 00:23:25,653 Speaker 3: shield hangovers were real for Tasman and Taranaki and it 427 00:23:25,773 --> 00:23:29,493 Speaker 3: sets up to mighty cought semi finals this weekend with 428 00:23:29,893 --> 00:23:33,373 Speaker 3: the bop our Man Mark Kelly will be storming around 429 00:23:33,413 --> 00:23:38,213 Speaker 3: in his jersey as they take on your beloveds Canterbury 430 00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:40,773 Speaker 3: and oh sorry our Wellington. 431 00:23:41,253 --> 00:23:43,293 Speaker 2: Sorry yeah, our. 432 00:23:42,773 --> 00:23:50,973 Speaker 3: Wellington prior place yeap hosts Wato. So very intriguing semi finals. 433 00:23:50,733 --> 00:23:54,333 Speaker 2: They are, indeed, Yeah, and good news for Plenty. They 434 00:23:54,373 --> 00:23:56,613 Speaker 2: win the Battle of the Bay for the years, so 435 00:23:56,613 --> 00:23:58,373 Speaker 2: they get to call themselves the real Bay for another 436 00:23:58,573 --> 00:23:59,693 Speaker 2: twelve months. I think that's right. 437 00:23:59,853 --> 00:24:02,053 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. So we're gonna have to get who's 438 00:24:02,093 --> 00:24:03,573 Speaker 3: gonna win those semis? What's the final? 439 00:24:06,013 --> 00:24:07,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was asked about this when I did head 440 00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:09,493 Speaker 2: on the Country spot break. It depends on the teams rarely, 441 00:24:09,533 --> 00:24:11,093 Speaker 2: because we don't think you all blacks are going to play, 442 00:24:12,493 --> 00:24:15,293 Speaker 2: which would hurt can to bring and it would hurt 443 00:24:15,293 --> 00:24:17,413 Speaker 2: White Katso and it would hurt Wellington as well with 444 00:24:17,533 --> 00:24:23,453 Speaker 2: Ti Japetan AA Billy Proctor, so it really does change 445 00:24:23,453 --> 00:24:26,173 Speaker 2: things around. I'm going to give it to the basis 446 00:24:26,213 --> 00:24:29,253 Speaker 2: of the home teams, probably Wellington Bay Plenty final, but 447 00:24:29,253 --> 00:24:31,573 Speaker 2: I don't think there's much an either semi final at 448 00:24:31,573 --> 00:24:33,653 Speaker 2: this point in time. I'm just going to give to 449 00:24:33,693 --> 00:24:34,853 Speaker 2: the home teams on the basis of that. 450 00:24:35,693 --> 00:24:38,133 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think look, if Canterbury can play like they 451 00:24:38,133 --> 00:24:41,613 Speaker 3: did last weekend, they will be incredibly difficult to stop. 452 00:24:41,693 --> 00:24:45,933 Speaker 3: Just we shout out to Billy Harmon. Wow, what a 453 00:24:46,013 --> 00:24:49,493 Speaker 3: performance and what a loss he is going to be 454 00:24:49,493 --> 00:24:55,733 Speaker 3: to New Zealand Rugby. He was phenomenal, ball in hand, defense, breakdown, 455 00:24:55,933 --> 00:24:58,813 Speaker 3: just relentless and huge loss for the Highlanders. 456 00:24:58,893 --> 00:25:00,853 Speaker 4: For Canterbury, he's going to Japan. 457 00:25:01,733 --> 00:25:03,173 Speaker 3: He's a guy that's been on the cusp of the 458 00:25:03,173 --> 00:25:05,493 Speaker 3: All Blacks for a number of years and you spoke 459 00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:08,293 Speaker 3: about the loose for depth, but him and Brandon Ian 460 00:25:08,333 --> 00:25:09,493 Speaker 3: all were really good. 461 00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:12,013 Speaker 2: I was actually thinking that yesterday when I was watching 462 00:25:12,013 --> 00:25:15,493 Speaker 2: that game that in an era when you've got players 463 00:25:15,533 --> 00:25:17,133 Speaker 2: that have played a lot of one off tests for 464 00:25:17,133 --> 00:25:19,453 Speaker 2: the All Blacks through necessity and various things, that the 465 00:25:19,493 --> 00:25:21,413 Speaker 2: fact that Billy Harmon never got an All Blacks cap. 466 00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:23,933 Speaker 2: I mean, he was his class, he was there in 467 00:25:23,973 --> 00:25:27,453 Speaker 2: the tour in twenty twenty two. Is you know, it's 468 00:25:27,493 --> 00:25:29,773 Speaker 2: a real shame because he is one of the probably 469 00:25:30,453 --> 00:25:32,373 Speaker 2: in the modern era, i'd say, one of the best 470 00:25:32,413 --> 00:25:33,893 Speaker 2: players not to get an All Blacks jersey. 471 00:25:34,013 --> 00:25:37,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, very very unsung, So very interesting to see how 472 00:25:37,693 --> 00:25:41,013 Speaker 3: those teams shake down. I will I can't tip Canterbury, 473 00:25:41,053 --> 00:25:45,213 Speaker 3: so will go bop and I think regardless of the teams, 474 00:25:45,653 --> 00:25:49,133 Speaker 3: I expect Wellington to beat Waikato. But it is also 475 00:25:49,213 --> 00:25:53,133 Speaker 3: great to see a guy like Aaron Cruden finishing his 476 00:25:53,373 --> 00:25:58,133 Speaker 3: career playing provincial forty, giving back, having a real influence. 477 00:25:59,493 --> 00:26:01,573 Speaker 3: Even you know the drop goal I think it was 478 00:26:01,573 --> 00:26:05,373 Speaker 3: was a park Excavage. Yeah good, almost forty meta drop 479 00:26:05,453 --> 00:26:09,133 Speaker 3: kit Cruden. I saw a postmatch interview with Cook Savage 480 00:26:09,133 --> 00:26:12,293 Speaker 3: and he said that Cruden called for that earlier and 481 00:26:12,333 --> 00:26:14,773 Speaker 3: then that was the second crack. He called him caught 482 00:26:14,893 --> 00:26:18,813 Speaker 3: or said he was calling the play. So the thing 483 00:26:18,893 --> 00:26:21,453 Speaker 3: his body's hanging on by three. But great to see 484 00:26:21,973 --> 00:26:24,333 Speaker 3: a form more All Black like that having a massive 485 00:26:24,373 --> 00:26:25,693 Speaker 3: impact on a provincial team. 486 00:26:25,813 --> 00:26:28,213 Speaker 2: Indeed, before we take a quick break, this has been 487 00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,973 Speaker 2: bubbling around for a few months, and it was already 488 00:26:31,013 --> 00:26:33,333 Speaker 2: around two or three months back, but now it's come 489 00:26:33,413 --> 00:26:37,373 Speaker 2: back around again that France planning to send say a 490 00:26:37,413 --> 00:26:39,813 Speaker 2: development team down to New Zealand for the three Tests 491 00:26:40,173 --> 00:26:44,213 Speaker 2: against the All Blacks next year. We've seen various headlines 492 00:26:44,213 --> 00:26:48,293 Speaker 2: saying the All Blacks are wild or whatever about it. 493 00:26:48,813 --> 00:26:50,493 Speaker 2: How do you feel about that, The fact that France 494 00:26:50,493 --> 00:26:53,213 Speaker 2: are likely to send a development team perhaps missing you know, 495 00:26:53,253 --> 00:26:56,413 Speaker 2: the likes of Antonin du Pont and perhaps various other 496 00:26:56,413 --> 00:26:58,973 Speaker 2: players there. I mean, it does depend on when they're 497 00:26:59,053 --> 00:27:01,333 Speaker 2: finals and who makes that final in the top fourteen. 498 00:27:02,973 --> 00:27:04,613 Speaker 2: But the writing teams on the wall that they're going 499 00:27:04,693 --> 00:27:07,413 Speaker 2: to send a weekend team down to New Zealand. 500 00:27:08,453 --> 00:27:11,093 Speaker 3: Think it's a disgrace. I think it makes a mockery 501 00:27:11,133 --> 00:27:15,733 Speaker 3: of the test game. You know, how would the French 502 00:27:15,773 --> 00:27:18,333 Speaker 3: feel if the All Blacks scent the All Blacks fifteen 503 00:27:18,933 --> 00:27:22,973 Speaker 3: to France to Paris in November instead of the top 504 00:27:23,173 --> 00:27:28,693 Speaker 3: line team. Look from a selling point point of view, 505 00:27:29,293 --> 00:27:31,733 Speaker 3: how great would it be to have Antone DuPont down here? 506 00:27:32,053 --> 00:27:33,053 Speaker 4: And in terms of. 507 00:27:33,013 --> 00:27:37,013 Speaker 3: His career as well, he needs to travel be the 508 00:27:37,013 --> 00:27:41,933 Speaker 3: country well, unless he's going to the NFL or Yeah, 509 00:27:42,293 --> 00:27:44,173 Speaker 3: it's just a great shame because it would be an 510 00:27:44,173 --> 00:27:47,213 Speaker 3: amazing series having France here, the best of the best 511 00:27:48,053 --> 00:27:51,613 Speaker 3: that French rugby has to offer. But they are very 512 00:27:51,653 --> 00:27:55,253 Speaker 3: much beholden to their clubs and I think there's been 513 00:27:55,293 --> 00:27:59,853 Speaker 3: a new deal done there and it is also nothing new. 514 00:28:00,013 --> 00:28:02,013 Speaker 3: They have been doing this for a number of years. 515 00:28:02,053 --> 00:28:05,293 Speaker 3: They did it when they went to Argentina this year. 516 00:28:05,813 --> 00:28:08,653 Speaker 3: But it's a great frustration just from a. 517 00:28:10,893 --> 00:28:11,493 Speaker 2: Crudibility. 518 00:28:11,533 --> 00:28:13,773 Speaker 3: I think Test rugby is the pinnacle and you want 519 00:28:13,813 --> 00:28:15,733 Speaker 3: the best of the best, and it just sucks the 520 00:28:15,773 --> 00:28:17,133 Speaker 3: life out of that series, doesn't it. 521 00:28:17,133 --> 00:28:18,533 Speaker 2: Well. I just don't know why they've flagged at twelve 522 00:28:18,533 --> 00:28:23,533 Speaker 2: months in advance thereabouts. You know. I think it's probably 523 00:28:23,573 --> 00:28:25,493 Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby's this year is that they've actually gone 524 00:28:25,493 --> 00:28:28,733 Speaker 2: out and said we're not sending our best down there. 525 00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:31,133 Speaker 2: And then so New Zealand Rugby early next year is 526 00:28:31,173 --> 00:28:33,533 Speaker 2: going to have to announce that they're playing these tests 527 00:28:33,573 --> 00:28:37,293 Speaker 2: in Duneden or Hamilton or Wellington or Auckland or wherever 528 00:28:37,373 --> 00:28:39,733 Speaker 2: it might be and go come and see the All Blacks. 529 00:28:39,733 --> 00:28:41,773 Speaker 2: They're playing a whole bunch of French players that you've 530 00:28:41,773 --> 00:28:44,893 Speaker 2: never heard of. And that's the thing is with that 531 00:28:44,933 --> 00:28:46,893 Speaker 2: announced it when they did their squad three weeks out 532 00:28:46,933 --> 00:28:50,733 Speaker 2: from traveling, go you actually not seending upon then it's 533 00:28:50,733 --> 00:28:53,173 Speaker 2: a bit more powerful. But to advertise twelve months out 534 00:28:53,253 --> 00:28:55,453 Speaker 2: or whatever that you're not sending your best players down 535 00:28:55,493 --> 00:29:00,973 Speaker 2: I think is it does hurt Test rugby and that's 536 00:29:01,373 --> 00:29:06,213 Speaker 2: something that World Rugby needs to fix. But they're powerless, powerless, 537 00:29:06,653 --> 00:29:08,253 Speaker 2: I don't know that they don't seem to want to 538 00:29:08,413 --> 00:29:10,373 Speaker 2: do anything. I don't know, the necessarily powerless, they just 539 00:29:10,413 --> 00:29:12,893 Speaker 2: don't seem like actually doing anything half the time. 540 00:29:13,093 --> 00:29:15,093 Speaker 3: Well, I wonder how it would go down if the 541 00:29:15,133 --> 00:29:20,573 Speaker 3: French decided to pull their players out of a Six 542 00:29:20,693 --> 00:29:24,933 Speaker 3: Nations game in Dublin or ticking them at the windows. 543 00:29:26,333 --> 00:29:29,213 Speaker 3: Mean that it doesn't that there's not the same clashes there, 544 00:29:29,613 --> 00:29:32,013 Speaker 3: but it's the same issue as and it shows how 545 00:29:32,053 --> 00:29:36,573 Speaker 3: fragmented the game is still that the top fourteen is prioritized. 546 00:29:37,053 --> 00:29:39,333 Speaker 3: And look in this part of the world, it's very 547 00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:42,333 Speaker 3: easy to get blase about that because you don't see 548 00:29:42,373 --> 00:29:46,253 Speaker 3: those events. If you know how passionate French fans are 549 00:29:46,293 --> 00:29:49,013 Speaker 3: about the top fourteen and how important and how. 550 00:29:49,013 --> 00:29:50,933 Speaker 2: It's a great competition, I'm sure if we could watch it. 551 00:29:51,013 --> 00:29:54,533 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing that the genuine passion, you know, 552 00:29:54,653 --> 00:30:00,453 Speaker 3: flears going off the buses, arriving fandom is alive in 553 00:30:00,493 --> 00:30:04,493 Speaker 3: the French game. But to prioritize the top fourteen over 554 00:30:04,493 --> 00:30:06,613 Speaker 3: the test game as a real slap in the face. 555 00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:10,013 Speaker 2: Well it's what international. But what's What's what rugby union's 556 00:30:10,013 --> 00:30:13,333 Speaker 2: got as an advantage over rugby league is the international game, 557 00:30:13,373 --> 00:30:16,453 Speaker 2: because the international game rugby league is a joke. So 558 00:30:17,533 --> 00:30:21,293 Speaker 2: you've got that and when you start prioritizing the club 559 00:30:21,293 --> 00:30:23,293 Speaker 2: game over it. That's what they've done in the NRAL, 560 00:30:23,613 --> 00:30:26,053 Speaker 2: it's what they've done another thing, you know, the Super 561 00:30:26,133 --> 00:30:28,293 Speaker 2: League to extend as well, and then the international game 562 00:30:28,333 --> 00:30:30,933 Speaker 2: becomes an afterthought and you just don't want to go 563 00:30:30,973 --> 00:30:33,133 Speaker 2: too far down that track. But there's not much New 564 00:30:33,173 --> 00:30:35,053 Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby can do about it. I mean, you know, 565 00:30:35,213 --> 00:30:37,373 Speaker 2: you could play a three match North versus South series 566 00:30:37,493 --> 00:30:40,773 Speaker 2: or whatever and that would probably fill the stadiums, but 567 00:30:41,013 --> 00:30:44,613 Speaker 2: you've got to take France and you know, deal with 568 00:30:44,653 --> 00:30:47,093 Speaker 2: the consequences of not selling out stadiums presumably. 569 00:30:47,573 --> 00:30:49,493 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's gonna be a tough sell and there 570 00:30:49,573 --> 00:30:51,973 Speaker 3: is absolutely nothing New Zealand Rugby can do about it. 571 00:30:52,053 --> 00:30:53,453 Speaker 2: Quick break, come back with more afters. 572 00:30:54,373 --> 00:30:58,893 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 573 00:31:02,373 --> 00:31:06,293 Speaker 2: Every try try ten sixty sec, every tackle tackles get 574 00:31:06,333 --> 00:31:06,933 Speaker 2: up again. 575 00:31:06,693 --> 00:31:07,733 Speaker 1: Every league. 576 00:31:10,053 --> 00:31:10,973 Speaker 2: Him before times. 577 00:31:10,973 --> 00:31:12,893 Speaker 4: It's Ruggy Direct, ladies. 578 00:31:13,893 --> 00:31:16,573 Speaker 2: You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for our final four. 579 00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:17,933 Speaker 2: It's time to catch up on a few of the 580 00:31:17,933 --> 00:31:20,613 Speaker 2: things that have missed over the last couple of weeks, 581 00:31:21,533 --> 00:31:25,973 Speaker 2: Number one, James O'Connor signed with the Crusaders. He'll lead 582 00:31:26,013 --> 00:31:29,013 Speaker 2: them back to the Promised Land in twenty twenty five. 583 00:31:30,253 --> 00:31:32,053 Speaker 2: What do you make of the signing, Well. 584 00:31:32,053 --> 00:31:34,893 Speaker 3: I look forward to you eating your words on that, 585 00:31:35,053 --> 00:31:39,893 Speaker 3: just quietly. Look, I think it's a good signing for 586 00:31:39,973 --> 00:31:42,413 Speaker 3: the Crusaders and the context of what they've got. 587 00:31:43,013 --> 00:31:46,013 Speaker 4: Rivers, Rayhanna and who else have. 588 00:31:47,573 --> 00:31:51,453 Speaker 3: So very on both of them, super regular, exactly very green, 589 00:31:51,773 --> 00:31:55,413 Speaker 3: unproven first fives. As we mentioned, the Crusaders tried for 590 00:31:55,493 --> 00:32:00,813 Speaker 3: Josh Jacob, so clearly Colin Mainsbridge and the Crusaders recruitment 591 00:32:01,453 --> 00:32:04,853 Speaker 3: department have been reading the Herald because I did a 592 00:32:04,933 --> 00:32:11,133 Speaker 3: column in June this year saying James O'Connor, Josh Jacob, 593 00:32:11,373 --> 00:32:14,573 Speaker 3: Aaron Cruden should be on the Crusaders wish list. Cruden's 594 00:32:14,573 --> 00:32:19,253 Speaker 3: going to retire, so very limited options there. Look, he's 595 00:32:19,293 --> 00:32:24,853 Speaker 3: not gonna solve the Crusaders first five crisis, but he 596 00:32:24,933 --> 00:32:29,133 Speaker 3: is a very experienced heads and he will be a 597 00:32:29,173 --> 00:32:32,493 Speaker 3: great mentor for those players. He's a guy that could 598 00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:34,213 Speaker 3: you can bring off the bench in the last quarter 599 00:32:34,733 --> 00:32:38,893 Speaker 3: and control the match. So I think he's a decent pickup. 600 00:32:38,933 --> 00:32:41,853 Speaker 3: He's not a problem solver. He's not a long term prospect. 601 00:32:41,853 --> 00:32:45,053 Speaker 3: This is a one year thing and the Crusaders are 602 00:32:45,133 --> 00:32:46,773 Speaker 3: likely to have Rich and Wonga back after that. 603 00:32:46,973 --> 00:32:49,373 Speaker 2: It is a stop gap measure, no doubt about that. 604 00:32:49,453 --> 00:32:52,053 Speaker 2: I think it's a good signing. Look, he's grown up 605 00:32:52,093 --> 00:32:54,413 Speaker 2: a bit from press the wild child that maybe he 606 00:32:54,653 --> 00:32:58,733 Speaker 2: was a decade or so ago, has matured significantly, become 607 00:32:58,773 --> 00:33:01,133 Speaker 2: a very very good player and I think could still 608 00:33:01,133 --> 00:33:05,413 Speaker 2: help out the Wallabies in all honesty. In fact, I 609 00:33:05,413 --> 00:33:07,333 Speaker 2: think what three years I think since his last play 610 00:33:07,373 --> 00:33:10,413 Speaker 2: he's got New Zealand peris maybe an all Blacks disease 611 00:33:10,413 --> 00:33:11,933 Speaker 2: in the offering for James O'Connor. 612 00:33:12,453 --> 00:33:16,533 Speaker 3: Well, Look, the only other point I'd make is maybe 613 00:33:16,613 --> 00:33:21,173 Speaker 3: Somerset Holmes could sponsor the Crusaders because it's becoming a 614 00:33:21,173 --> 00:33:23,933 Speaker 3: bit of a retirement village, isn't it. Lee half Penny, 615 00:33:24,853 --> 00:33:27,533 Speaker 3: Jared Payne, James O'Connor, who's. 616 00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:32,613 Speaker 2: Next tard he cut Willie Hines. Yeah, bring him back 617 00:33:33,573 --> 00:33:36,213 Speaker 2: for next year. I did see as well last week 618 00:33:36,253 --> 00:33:39,653 Speaker 2: on Wellington called Drug Report, that Kyle Preston, the Wellington 619 00:33:39,693 --> 00:33:41,573 Speaker 2: half back, is someone with the Crusaders for next season, 620 00:33:41,653 --> 00:33:44,933 Speaker 2: so Brigian, but it's Hotham, Drummonds and in Kyle Preston 621 00:33:45,013 --> 00:33:48,853 Speaker 2: as their three half backs. Question number two, sticking with 622 00:33:48,933 --> 00:33:51,893 Speaker 2: the first fives, Brick Cameron suffering that injury for Mana 623 00:33:51,933 --> 00:33:55,813 Speaker 2: with two acl out for what nine months? Who's going 624 00:33:55,893 --> 00:33:59,173 Speaker 2: to miss the entirety of Super rugby the Hurricanes This 625 00:33:59,213 --> 00:34:01,333 Speaker 2: is We talked about it earlier, earlier in the first 626 00:34:01,333 --> 00:34:04,413 Speaker 2: half of the podcast, that there's not a lot of 627 00:34:04,533 --> 00:34:07,413 Speaker 2: first fives and they're all truncated into the top half 628 00:34:07,453 --> 00:34:11,373 Speaker 2: of the North Island. So what do the Hurricanes do now? 629 00:34:11,413 --> 00:34:14,253 Speaker 2: I was watching our colleagues at the Breakdown a couple 630 00:34:14,293 --> 00:34:17,973 Speaker 2: of weeks ago in Isaac Boss suggested that cam Rougard 631 00:34:17,973 --> 00:34:20,013 Speaker 2: could play ten. He's worked a weave it with him 632 00:34:20,053 --> 00:34:23,293 Speaker 2: around I think counties, junior levels or something like that. 633 00:34:23,373 --> 00:34:27,093 Speaker 2: Maybe is cam Roygard the answer for the Hurricanes at ten? 634 00:34:27,533 --> 00:34:29,333 Speaker 2: You got Jordia Ville unit nine. 635 00:34:29,373 --> 00:34:32,933 Speaker 3: It's all coming to look no, no, he's not leave 636 00:34:33,013 --> 00:34:36,013 Speaker 3: cam ruyguard at half back and he can just assume 637 00:34:36,053 --> 00:34:37,173 Speaker 3: a lot more responsibility. 638 00:34:37,293 --> 00:34:38,493 Speaker 4: Look as a massive blow. 639 00:34:38,893 --> 00:34:45,013 Speaker 3: Brett Cameron didn't perform very well in the semi final 640 00:34:45,133 --> 00:34:47,133 Speaker 3: that the Hurricanes lost, got a bit found out in 641 00:34:47,573 --> 00:34:52,373 Speaker 3: that matched, but he is a very steady hand and 642 00:34:52,453 --> 00:34:54,773 Speaker 3: he knows how to control a game. His kicking game 643 00:34:55,373 --> 00:34:58,693 Speaker 3: is very educated and he had a big impact on 644 00:34:58,733 --> 00:35:01,573 Speaker 3: the Hurricanes, So massive blow for him and the Hurricanes. 645 00:35:01,653 --> 00:35:03,893 Speaker 3: I think they're going to have to turn to Ruben 646 00:35:03,973 --> 00:35:09,013 Speaker 3: Love at ten, which is not ideal because his best 647 00:35:09,013 --> 00:35:12,693 Speaker 3: at fullback. He played ten through high school for Pumpston 648 00:35:12,693 --> 00:35:15,373 Speaker 3: North Boys High so he has a lot of experience there. 649 00:35:16,213 --> 00:35:21,333 Speaker 3: And when Jason Hollan was coach, he rotated Aiden Morgan 650 00:35:21,453 --> 00:35:24,413 Speaker 3: and Rubin Love basically for a whole season at ten, 651 00:35:24,973 --> 00:35:28,133 Speaker 3: which didn't work for the Hurricanes, but so Rubin Love 652 00:35:28,213 --> 00:35:30,613 Speaker 3: has some experience at ten. There are other options are 653 00:35:30,613 --> 00:35:33,773 Speaker 3: Harry Godfrey, who's predominantly played fullback for Hawk's Bay but 654 00:35:33,813 --> 00:35:36,973 Speaker 3: does have First five experience, and I think the Hurricanes 655 00:35:37,013 --> 00:35:41,573 Speaker 3: have also signed Lucas cashmore Bay Plenty Prospects, who has 656 00:35:41,613 --> 00:35:45,173 Speaker 3: been with the Blues but is green as well. So, 657 00:35:45,813 --> 00:35:49,333 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, as we touched on very limited options 658 00:35:49,733 --> 00:35:53,253 Speaker 3: with the Chiefs and Blues stockpiling their tens. Oh how 659 00:35:53,533 --> 00:35:55,373 Speaker 3: the Canes would love to get their hands on Josh 660 00:35:55,493 --> 00:36:00,573 Speaker 3: Jacob or Stephen Petefetter, but yeah, big setback for them, 661 00:36:00,653 --> 00:36:03,653 Speaker 3: I think a little. One of the fans of the 662 00:36:03,653 --> 00:36:06,093 Speaker 3: pod actually messaged me to say that the Canes have 663 00:36:06,133 --> 00:36:07,253 Speaker 3: apparently signed. 664 00:36:07,693 --> 00:36:09,933 Speaker 4: Cade Bank from Harbo from Harbor. 665 00:36:10,053 --> 00:36:12,413 Speaker 3: But yeah, he's not going to play ten either, So 666 00:36:12,453 --> 00:36:15,013 Speaker 3: that's that's not going to sell Bret Cameron's absence. 667 00:36:15,373 --> 00:36:18,573 Speaker 2: No, it's not. You mentioned Oar and crew didn't couldn't 668 00:36:18,613 --> 00:36:21,813 Speaker 2: tempt him to go for another trip around the block. 669 00:36:22,093 --> 00:36:26,053 Speaker 3: Well, he sent me worth a phone call. He is 670 00:36:26,493 --> 00:36:28,253 Speaker 3: in the James O'Connor mold, isn't he. He's not a 671 00:36:28,293 --> 00:36:30,693 Speaker 3: guy that would be starting week and week out. His 672 00:36:30,733 --> 00:36:34,173 Speaker 3: body wouldn't last the distance. But yeah, what a guy 673 00:36:34,213 --> 00:36:36,053 Speaker 3: to have in your squad to be able to bring 674 00:36:36,093 --> 00:36:36,653 Speaker 3: off the bench. 675 00:36:37,693 --> 00:36:39,693 Speaker 4: So yeah, i'd give him a call. 676 00:36:39,733 --> 00:36:41,813 Speaker 2: They don't have Jordi Barrett either. Of course the next 677 00:36:41,813 --> 00:36:44,813 Speaker 2: season going to Leinster on that sabbatical deal. He's played 678 00:36:44,853 --> 00:36:46,933 Speaker 2: test met rugby at ten. Could have moved him into ten. 679 00:36:47,453 --> 00:36:50,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well he actually does, or did prior to Brett 680 00:36:50,693 --> 00:36:52,973 Speaker 3: Cameron's or over a lot of that back line organization. 681 00:36:53,093 --> 00:36:56,493 Speaker 3: So if you move Reuben Love to ten, then you're 682 00:36:56,573 --> 00:36:59,853 Speaker 3: reconfiguring the back three as well. And Jordie's a massive loss. 683 00:36:59,853 --> 00:37:03,933 Speaker 3: Bigger loss I would suggest than Ardie severe because of 684 00:37:03,973 --> 00:37:07,173 Speaker 3: the way the hurricanes loose forwards have come through. So yeah, 685 00:37:07,293 --> 00:37:09,573 Speaker 3: a big setback for Clark laid law there. 686 00:37:09,773 --> 00:37:13,533 Speaker 2: Indeed, topic number three. World rugby rule changes continue to 687 00:37:13,573 --> 00:37:17,093 Speaker 2: move a step forward, including the twenty minute red card, 688 00:37:17,173 --> 00:37:20,533 Speaker 2: which is taking another step forward with World Rugby basically 689 00:37:20,533 --> 00:37:22,973 Speaker 2: giving the signature of approval. This has been met with 690 00:37:23,093 --> 00:37:26,613 Speaker 2: and we bit of an uproar up North. They're not 691 00:37:26,773 --> 00:37:29,173 Speaker 2: huge fans of it, but seems like World Rugby is 692 00:37:30,293 --> 00:37:32,773 Speaker 2: intent on making it part of the rules. I think 693 00:37:33,413 --> 00:37:36,293 Speaker 2: it's a good move for World Rugby, but I do 694 00:37:36,333 --> 00:37:39,493 Speaker 2: think it hasn't been explained that well to how it 695 00:37:39,533 --> 00:37:42,013 Speaker 2: works up North, because there's a lot of confusion around oh, 696 00:37:42,053 --> 00:37:43,733 Speaker 2: you can bring this player back on after twenty minutes, 697 00:37:43,773 --> 00:37:45,213 Speaker 2: No you can't. You have to bring another player, And 698 00:37:45,253 --> 00:37:48,213 Speaker 2: I just don't think it's been explained clearly the fact 699 00:37:48,213 --> 00:37:50,013 Speaker 2: that's still calling it a twenty minute red card when 700 00:37:50,053 --> 00:37:53,013 Speaker 2: the red card full red card still exists as just 701 00:37:53,173 --> 00:37:55,493 Speaker 2: an optics and clarity issue. You should go in an 702 00:37:55,533 --> 00:37:59,253 Speaker 2: orange card or similar or an injection card, player rejection, 703 00:37:59,293 --> 00:38:01,893 Speaker 2: whatever it might be. But Ultimately, I think this is 704 00:38:01,933 --> 00:38:05,173 Speaker 2: a good thing for rugby union that yes, you're looking 705 00:38:05,173 --> 00:38:07,533 Speaker 2: after the head contact that you need to look after 706 00:38:07,613 --> 00:38:12,893 Speaker 2: and applying discipline around that and applying sanctions, but you're 707 00:38:12,893 --> 00:38:15,293 Speaker 2: also keeping the game of context at contests because you 708 00:38:15,293 --> 00:38:17,373 Speaker 2: think about the number of red cards that have happened 709 00:38:17,413 --> 00:38:20,053 Speaker 2: over last decade versus the ninety years of test mat 710 00:38:20,093 --> 00:38:20,813 Speaker 2: drugging before it. 711 00:38:21,373 --> 00:38:22,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the key point there is that the 712 00:38:23,333 --> 00:38:26,253 Speaker 3: actual full red card is still available, and like you say, 713 00:38:26,293 --> 00:38:30,453 Speaker 3: that needs to be explained because if there is an 714 00:38:30,493 --> 00:38:34,613 Speaker 3: act of thuggery or a really bad tackle, then that 715 00:38:34,693 --> 00:38:36,253 Speaker 3: option is still available. 716 00:38:36,413 --> 00:38:38,333 Speaker 4: So it's the best of both worlds. 717 00:38:38,333 --> 00:38:43,733 Speaker 3: You're protecting the entertainment product and let's get real that 718 00:38:44,013 --> 00:38:47,933 Speaker 3: rugby's big business now and that need the credibility of 719 00:38:47,973 --> 00:38:50,773 Speaker 3: the contests does need to be preserved, and that's what 720 00:38:50,813 --> 00:38:54,413 Speaker 3: this does. So I think World Rugby the penny is 721 00:38:54,453 --> 00:38:57,293 Speaker 3: finally dropping. They do still have to vote on it 722 00:38:58,213 --> 00:39:02,613 Speaker 3: in November, so as we've seen World Rugby and present 723 00:39:02,693 --> 00:39:05,853 Speaker 3: your elections and all sorts of wheeling and dealing behind 724 00:39:06,213 --> 00:39:08,693 Speaker 3: the scenes, things can change, but it does seem like 725 00:39:08,893 --> 00:39:12,813 Speaker 3: there has been positive progression here, so hopefully that goes 726 00:39:12,853 --> 00:39:17,613 Speaker 3: through and just I think it's a nod to the 727 00:39:17,653 --> 00:39:20,213 Speaker 3: progression that's happened in the Southern hemisphere and they've been 728 00:39:20,213 --> 00:39:23,733 Speaker 3: pushing for this for a number of years. And aside 729 00:39:23,733 --> 00:39:28,693 Speaker 3: from the red card, things like shot clocks for kicking, 730 00:39:30,013 --> 00:39:34,493 Speaker 3: that the mall is only allowed one stoppage and the 731 00:39:34,533 --> 00:39:37,773 Speaker 3: scrums and lineouts, basically that the intent to speed up 732 00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:41,333 Speaker 3: the game, which is what's happened through Super Rugby this 733 00:39:41,453 --> 00:39:46,413 Speaker 3: year with diminishing the TMO influence and the NPC. So 734 00:39:46,493 --> 00:39:48,773 Speaker 3: that's been a real catalyst for change, isn't. 735 00:39:48,533 --> 00:39:52,493 Speaker 2: It It has indeed, And yeah, interesting to see attention 736 00:39:52,573 --> 00:39:55,213 Speaker 2: now being played up north to that final topic. In 737 00:39:55,253 --> 00:39:58,693 Speaker 2: the Final four, Tarmathi Ellison officially leaves the Crusader. It's 738 00:39:58,693 --> 00:40:00,733 Speaker 2: not too much surprise there because it seems like it 739 00:40:00,773 --> 00:40:03,573 Speaker 2: was destined to happen once the All Blacks made their 740 00:40:03,573 --> 00:40:07,813 Speaker 2: coaching changes around that, but he's officially at the Crusaders now. 741 00:40:07,853 --> 00:40:13,853 Speaker 2: There was but speculation was basically informed speculation that there 742 00:40:13,893 --> 00:40:16,373 Speaker 2: was basically a two year stopgap that Rob Penny was 743 00:40:16,373 --> 00:40:18,533 Speaker 2: going to coach the Crusaders twenty twenty four to twenty 744 00:40:18,573 --> 00:40:21,013 Speaker 2: twenty five and Thomasy Allison would come in from twenty 745 00:40:21,053 --> 00:40:23,133 Speaker 2: twenty six. Now, whether that was in rising, whether it 746 00:40:23,173 --> 00:40:25,893 Speaker 2: was just presumed, whatever it was, that's not going to 747 00:40:25,933 --> 00:40:29,253 Speaker 2: happen now from twenty twenty six. So the Crusaders, having 748 00:40:29,253 --> 00:40:33,053 Speaker 2: lost Scott Robertson, Scott Hansen, Jason Ryan previously to that, 749 00:40:33,133 --> 00:40:37,253 Speaker 2: have now lost Tomoty Allison and so any thoughts around 750 00:40:37,333 --> 00:40:40,493 Speaker 2: a succession plan now out the window. So what do 751 00:40:40,573 --> 00:40:42,573 Speaker 2: the Crusaders do to this point? It gives them a 752 00:40:42,613 --> 00:40:46,573 Speaker 2: clean slate, I guess, But what's your feeling around where 753 00:40:46,613 --> 00:40:47,453 Speaker 2: they're going to go from here? 754 00:40:49,253 --> 00:40:49,733 Speaker 4: Who knows? 755 00:40:49,733 --> 00:40:55,173 Speaker 3: There's real instability there isn't there? Because Rob Penny was well, 756 00:40:55,213 --> 00:40:58,933 Speaker 3: certainly externally was on a knife edge of being chopped. 757 00:40:59,173 --> 00:41:00,613 Speaker 3: I don't think that was ever going to happen from 758 00:41:00,613 --> 00:41:04,373 Speaker 3: a Crusaders perspective, but dire seasoned by a Crusader standards 759 00:41:04,413 --> 00:41:06,613 Speaker 3: this year, so he's under pressure to perform in the 760 00:41:06,653 --> 00:41:09,773 Speaker 3: final year of his contract and I don't think they 761 00:41:10,093 --> 00:41:11,733 Speaker 3: at this point would know where they're going to go 762 00:41:11,773 --> 00:41:14,613 Speaker 3: beyond that. As you mentioned, somebody Ellison was earmarked, he 763 00:41:14,733 --> 00:41:15,893 Speaker 3: was odds on to take over. 764 00:41:17,053 --> 00:41:18,413 Speaker 4: Now who now, where do they go? 765 00:41:18,853 --> 00:41:22,893 Speaker 3: There's whispers about Leo McDonald popping up an Australian rugby. 766 00:41:23,013 --> 00:41:24,453 Speaker 4: I don't think he would come back to. 767 00:41:25,093 --> 00:41:30,653 Speaker 3: Super rugby as it is so Yeah, real instability and uncertainty. 768 00:41:31,653 --> 00:41:34,253 Speaker 3: So maybe just sign Rob Pinny up for five years. 769 00:41:34,293 --> 00:41:37,813 Speaker 2: Well, look, he's got James O'Connor next year and may 770 00:41:37,933 --> 00:41:40,813 Speaker 2: all come together for Rob in the Crusaders in twenty 771 00:41:40,853 --> 00:41:43,333 Speaker 2: twenty five. And this may be a moot discussion. Maybe 772 00:41:43,613 --> 00:41:45,653 Speaker 2: you're saying that with a smile. I'm trying to get 773 00:41:45,653 --> 00:41:48,933 Speaker 2: a lifetime deal in twenty twenty five to go until 774 00:41:49,093 --> 00:41:51,653 Speaker 2: I pop my clogs. I'm going to be coaching the Crusaders. 775 00:41:51,693 --> 00:41:55,773 Speaker 2: But let's say is not there's not many head coaches 776 00:41:55,773 --> 00:41:58,253 Speaker 2: at the moment putting their hands up. I don't think 777 00:41:58,413 --> 00:42:01,053 Speaker 2: internally in New Zealand rugby from the Crusaders, I will 778 00:42:01,053 --> 00:42:03,493 Speaker 2: think at maybe like you, guy like Neil Barnes to 779 00:42:03,533 --> 00:42:06,613 Speaker 2: come down and coach h he's older than Rob Penny. 780 00:42:07,533 --> 00:42:09,333 Speaker 2: But perhaps someone like Kim could come in. 781 00:42:10,013 --> 00:42:10,893 Speaker 4: Colin Cooper's flow. 782 00:42:11,693 --> 00:42:14,733 Speaker 3: It feels like the future exactly that Richard Watt's done 783 00:42:14,733 --> 00:42:16,973 Speaker 3: a really good job with plenty of this year. But again, 784 00:42:17,213 --> 00:42:18,853 Speaker 3: a guy that's been around a. 785 00:42:18,773 --> 00:42:19,653 Speaker 4: Long, long time. 786 00:42:20,253 --> 00:42:22,813 Speaker 2: Indeed, Ross Felippo is a coach that I think has 787 00:42:22,813 --> 00:42:23,773 Speaker 2: got ammense promise. 788 00:42:25,013 --> 00:42:28,533 Speaker 3: He was certainly in the discussions for the Crusades. I 789 00:42:28,533 --> 00:42:31,573 Speaker 3: would say he is actually the leading candidate that that 790 00:42:31,573 --> 00:42:36,453 Speaker 3: that that they would go after. But the Chief's going 791 00:42:36,493 --> 00:42:39,213 Speaker 3: to let him go because he is a real talent 792 00:42:39,293 --> 00:42:43,413 Speaker 3: and highly regarded both with what he's done with Waikato 793 00:42:43,813 --> 00:42:46,333 Speaker 3: and the Chiefs, and he's now with New Zealand. 794 00:42:46,333 --> 00:42:48,853 Speaker 4: Maldi so clearly. 795 00:42:49,253 --> 00:42:52,253 Speaker 3: Identified from a high performance perspective with the New Zealand Rugby. 796 00:42:52,773 --> 00:42:54,733 Speaker 3: So I was if I was the Crusaders, I'll be 797 00:42:54,773 --> 00:42:55,853 Speaker 3: going all in on Ross. 798 00:42:56,573 --> 00:42:59,013 Speaker 2: It's interesting, isn't it. I guess he've still got a 799 00:42:59,053 --> 00:43:00,333 Speaker 2: bit of water to go on the bridge as to 800 00:43:00,333 --> 00:43:03,013 Speaker 2: how twenty twenty five plays out. 801 00:43:03,253 --> 00:43:05,653 Speaker 4: And Robbie you trust man, we do. 802 00:43:06,013 --> 00:43:09,853 Speaker 2: That'll do us for Rugby Directs this week for your 803 00:43:09,853 --> 00:43:13,733 Speaker 2: company again suing with the end of year tour looming. 804 00:43:14,093 --> 00:43:16,853 Speaker 2: That has been Rugby Direct with Forklift Solutions lifting you 805 00:43:16,933 --> 00:43:18,653 Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. I thanks as 806 00:43:18,693 --> 00:43:21,253 Speaker 2: always to last and Bars English. We'll catch you next time. 807 00:43:25,493 --> 00:43:28,453 Speaker 1: For more from News talkst B, listen live on air 808 00:43:28,613 --> 00:43:31,253 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 809 00:43:31,373 --> 00:43:33,813 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,