1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,987 Speaker 1: from News Talks B Victor. 3 00:00:13,027 --> 00:00:15,467 Speaker 2: Victor played thirty three test matches for the All Blacks, 4 00:00:15,467 --> 00:00:18,307 Speaker 2: a double World Cup winner twenty eleven and twenty fifteen. Victor, 5 00:00:18,307 --> 00:00:20,427 Speaker 2: thanks for joining us on the show. You were one 6 00:00:20,427 --> 00:00:23,027 Speaker 2: of very few players who started for the All Blacks 7 00:00:23,067 --> 00:00:25,747 Speaker 2: in all three loose forward positions. So once you get 8 00:00:25,787 --> 00:00:28,907 Speaker 2: out there, how different are the three roles in the 9 00:00:28,907 --> 00:00:29,627 Speaker 2: heat of the battle? 10 00:00:31,027 --> 00:00:31,827 Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. 11 00:00:31,907 --> 00:00:34,507 Speaker 4: I think the similarities would be that at the end 12 00:00:34,547 --> 00:00:36,587 Speaker 4: of the day, you've got to bring the physical intensity, 13 00:00:36,627 --> 00:00:39,787 Speaker 4: whether that's with the ball in hand or obviously in 14 00:00:39,827 --> 00:00:43,267 Speaker 4: the defensive line, but the roles themselves. In my day anyway, 15 00:00:43,267 --> 00:00:44,507 Speaker 4: it was pretty was quite different. 16 00:00:45,467 --> 00:00:45,667 Speaker 3: Six. 17 00:00:45,747 --> 00:00:47,267 Speaker 4: You are a lot more of the enforcer, the one 18 00:00:47,267 --> 00:00:49,227 Speaker 4: that was able to stem the flow of if the 19 00:00:49,347 --> 00:00:51,707 Speaker 4: opposition forward started getting a roll on all of a sudden, 20 00:00:51,707 --> 00:00:54,227 Speaker 4: you see that six fly out and level them and 21 00:00:54,227 --> 00:00:55,427 Speaker 4: basically put us on the front. 22 00:00:55,307 --> 00:00:57,947 Speaker 3: Foot again and just be their physical presence there. 23 00:00:57,987 --> 00:01:00,587 Speaker 4: And then the several would be more of a fetchure 24 00:01:00,587 --> 00:01:04,747 Speaker 4: and a connector with interconnecting link play providing you know, 25 00:01:04,907 --> 00:01:07,547 Speaker 4: just all that kind of between the backs of the board, 26 00:01:07,587 --> 00:01:09,867 Speaker 4: and then the number eight would be a lot more 27 00:01:10,707 --> 00:01:12,907 Speaker 4: across the lineouts. I guess we had to agreed as 28 00:01:12,947 --> 00:01:15,387 Speaker 4: well as the fact that they're more responsible to fall 29 00:01:15,427 --> 00:01:16,867 Speaker 4: on hand and potentially. 30 00:01:16,387 --> 00:01:18,907 Speaker 3: Helping with backfield cover and launching counter attacks. 31 00:01:18,947 --> 00:01:23,267 Speaker 4: So yeah, similar roles in terms of the physical presence 32 00:01:23,267 --> 00:01:25,107 Speaker 4: that they need to have on both sides of the board, 33 00:01:25,147 --> 00:01:27,987 Speaker 4: but quite different in terms of what they look to bring. 34 00:01:28,227 --> 00:01:31,187 Speaker 2: Did you have a preference, victor what was your absolute preference? 35 00:01:32,427 --> 00:01:32,587 Speaker 3: Oh? 36 00:01:33,227 --> 00:01:35,547 Speaker 4: I think my absolute preference would have always been number eight. 37 00:01:35,547 --> 00:01:38,467 Speaker 4: I love playing eight with the Canes, but you know, 38 00:01:38,547 --> 00:01:42,107 Speaker 4: as a history would tell obviously, coming through with a 39 00:01:42,107 --> 00:01:46,307 Speaker 4: team like Richie, Kieran and Jerome on the flanks, it. 40 00:01:45,787 --> 00:01:47,747 Speaker 3: Just made me just slid on wherever I could. 41 00:01:48,187 --> 00:01:49,947 Speaker 2: So you look at the current squad then, and you 42 00:01:49,987 --> 00:01:53,227 Speaker 2: talked about, you know, the similarities and the differences. Does 43 00:01:53,267 --> 00:01:56,147 Speaker 2: it really matter which number Artie Savia wears. He's been 44 00:01:56,187 --> 00:01:58,467 Speaker 2: wearing eight, He's seven tonight and has been for more 45 00:01:58,507 --> 00:02:01,667 Speaker 2: one of PACIFICA. Does it really matter which number he 46 00:02:01,707 --> 00:02:02,067 Speaker 2: has on? 47 00:02:03,787 --> 00:02:06,667 Speaker 4: I think with the way that they're playing the game now, 48 00:02:06,667 --> 00:02:09,867 Speaker 4: I don't think so, not as much. I think he's 49 00:02:09,867 --> 00:02:11,707 Speaker 4: going to be able to pretty much come under his 50 00:02:11,747 --> 00:02:12,707 Speaker 4: presence from wherever he is. 51 00:02:12,747 --> 00:02:14,867 Speaker 3: I mean, he's always going to be that seven might. 52 00:02:14,747 --> 00:02:17,187 Speaker 4: Give him a little bit more of a of an 53 00:02:17,187 --> 00:02:19,267 Speaker 4: owners to go in there over the ball and try 54 00:02:19,307 --> 00:02:21,627 Speaker 4: to steal everything, but like that's that's what he does anyway, 55 00:02:21,627 --> 00:02:23,947 Speaker 4: even when he's got the eight jersey so and the 56 00:02:23,987 --> 00:02:26,307 Speaker 4: ball in hand, being a big carrier for the team, 57 00:02:26,347 --> 00:02:28,747 Speaker 4: that doesn't change, you know, you know to ball, he's 58 00:02:28,907 --> 00:02:31,347 Speaker 4: obviously a good carrier as well, but you'll have a 59 00:02:31,347 --> 00:02:35,267 Speaker 4: few line our responsibilities, whereas Artie and Christian will probably 60 00:02:35,307 --> 00:02:37,387 Speaker 4: be taking more of the lion's shot of the carrying. 61 00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:39,307 Speaker 4: So it'll be just interesting to see. 62 00:02:39,147 --> 00:02:40,627 Speaker 3: How how we help it pans out. 63 00:02:40,667 --> 00:02:42,827 Speaker 4: But I'm pretty sure he can do whether it's seven 64 00:02:42,907 --> 00:02:45,067 Speaker 4: or eight. Artie will just keep leading from the front. 65 00:02:45,107 --> 00:02:47,667 Speaker 2: And did you mentioned too there? What do you make 66 00:02:47,707 --> 00:02:50,627 Speaker 2: of the I guess it's an experiment to play him 67 00:02:50,667 --> 00:02:52,267 Speaker 2: at six and see how he goes there. 68 00:02:53,187 --> 00:02:55,267 Speaker 3: Yeah, look at the end of the days, you know, 69 00:02:55,307 --> 00:02:55,787 Speaker 3: it's a freak. 70 00:02:55,907 --> 00:02:58,947 Speaker 4: So he's able to He's obviously giving us that aerial 71 00:02:59,027 --> 00:03:02,347 Speaker 4: advantage as well with the with the Lucy's but you 72 00:03:02,387 --> 00:03:04,387 Speaker 4: know he's he's shown, you know, he's scored some some 73 00:03:04,387 --> 00:03:07,507 Speaker 4: pretty good tries with an open spaces. It's just that 74 00:03:08,067 --> 00:03:10,147 Speaker 4: just out of the edge of the physicality too, because 75 00:03:10,147 --> 00:03:12,427 Speaker 4: he's got it in him, and it's just something that 76 00:03:12,427 --> 00:03:14,907 Speaker 4: that takes time. You know, when I thought to Jerome 77 00:03:14,947 --> 00:03:16,587 Speaker 4: as well, that it took him a bit of time 78 00:03:16,667 --> 00:03:19,307 Speaker 4: to find because footing with their physical presence, and even 79 00:03:19,307 --> 00:03:22,347 Speaker 4: myself was the exact same thing. So it's at some 80 00:03:22,467 --> 00:03:24,627 Speaker 4: stage you just got to give someone the time to 81 00:03:25,107 --> 00:03:27,667 Speaker 4: grow into that role. And because that's something that you know, 82 00:03:27,747 --> 00:03:30,827 Speaker 4: any all black team lose Ford Trio or even Ford 83 00:03:30,827 --> 00:03:33,827 Speaker 4: Peck will always needs as their physical dominance. And that's 84 00:03:33,867 --> 00:03:36,467 Speaker 4: definitely something that we're obviously just the working. 85 00:03:36,707 --> 00:03:38,787 Speaker 2: How do you develop it? But how do you how 86 00:03:38,827 --> 00:03:42,467 Speaker 2: do you work on physicality. 87 00:03:43,467 --> 00:03:43,627 Speaker 3: Love? 88 00:03:43,707 --> 00:03:46,947 Speaker 4: Obviously it's just not so much time of the gym, 89 00:03:46,987 --> 00:03:49,267 Speaker 4: but just time on the track and just confidence with 90 00:03:49,307 --> 00:03:53,147 Speaker 4: the guys in and around you. It's a real understanding 91 00:03:53,187 --> 00:03:55,547 Speaker 4: of your role. It's it's a whole bunch of stuff, 92 00:03:55,547 --> 00:03:58,707 Speaker 4: but most of it is just maturity really. You know, 93 00:03:58,747 --> 00:04:00,707 Speaker 4: when you're in your twenties, you can you know, get 94 00:04:00,747 --> 00:04:02,787 Speaker 4: tough and then you come and come across come across 95 00:04:02,787 --> 00:04:04,907 Speaker 4: a farmer and you find out you're not so tough anymore, 96 00:04:04,987 --> 00:04:09,107 Speaker 4: you know. So it's just the maturity of being in 97 00:04:09,147 --> 00:04:11,267 Speaker 4: there long enough to be able to cut your teeth 98 00:04:11,267 --> 00:04:13,707 Speaker 4: and know where you can and where you should be. 99 00:04:13,707 --> 00:04:14,787 Speaker 3: Oh yes, at the right time. 100 00:04:15,187 --> 00:04:18,067 Speaker 2: What have you made of duplass Kalifi's season, which has 101 00:04:18,147 --> 00:04:19,667 Speaker 2: led to his All Blacks call up. 102 00:04:20,907 --> 00:04:23,147 Speaker 4: Oh look, he's been knocking on the door for a 103 00:04:23,187 --> 00:04:26,187 Speaker 4: long long time, and so to actually see him finally 104 00:04:26,187 --> 00:04:29,547 Speaker 4: gets a rewarded with the knot, Look, it's pretty amazing. 105 00:04:29,547 --> 00:04:32,867 Speaker 3: He fully deserves it, and he's just the absolute. 106 00:04:32,507 --> 00:04:36,307 Speaker 4: Example of hustle and if it and not just say 107 00:04:36,387 --> 00:04:39,747 Speaker 4: but obviously he's worked on his ball handling as well 108 00:04:39,787 --> 00:04:41,787 Speaker 4: as his actual carry game as well, which has been 109 00:04:41,827 --> 00:04:43,867 Speaker 4: really good to see, especially this season, which is of 110 00:04:43,987 --> 00:04:46,267 Speaker 4: what I think has led to the knot, because he's 111 00:04:46,267 --> 00:04:48,827 Speaker 4: always a defensive threat, but now he's actually with the 112 00:04:48,827 --> 00:04:51,747 Speaker 4: ball in hand, he's been making breaks, putting away little 113 00:04:51,747 --> 00:04:54,507 Speaker 4: link passes to put other guys into space. I think 114 00:04:54,507 --> 00:04:56,587 Speaker 4: that's the bit of his game that's really made a difference. 115 00:04:56,627 --> 00:04:59,027 Speaker 4: And I really hope that he comes off the bench early. 116 00:04:59,107 --> 00:05:01,467 Speaker 4: You know, if the if the starting guys can see 117 00:05:01,467 --> 00:05:04,187 Speaker 4: a good platform and really just get his first test 118 00:05:04,267 --> 00:05:04,987 Speaker 4: under his belt. 119 00:05:05,307 --> 00:05:07,387 Speaker 2: You've spent a lot of time at the back end 120 00:05:07,427 --> 00:05:11,827 Speaker 2: of your career playing in France, so presumably the competitiveness 121 00:05:11,827 --> 00:05:13,547 Speaker 2: of what was meant to be an under strength French 122 00:05:13,587 --> 00:05:15,747 Speaker 2: side last weekend didn't surprise you too much. 123 00:05:17,107 --> 00:05:20,227 Speaker 4: No, it didn't really surprise me because I know how 124 00:05:20,427 --> 00:05:22,227 Speaker 4: how much respect that this team has for us, and 125 00:05:22,267 --> 00:05:24,107 Speaker 4: I think that's probably the bit that sort of set 126 00:05:24,187 --> 00:05:26,467 Speaker 4: us a little bit wrong, is that we probably disrespected 127 00:05:26,467 --> 00:05:28,187 Speaker 4: them a little bit as well, with the fact that 128 00:05:28,867 --> 00:05:30,747 Speaker 4: you know this thinking that this team they're just sending 129 00:05:30,747 --> 00:05:33,067 Speaker 4: an academy team over or whatever it is. But you 130 00:05:33,067 --> 00:05:35,427 Speaker 4: know they you know they look forward to any game 131 00:05:35,507 --> 00:05:37,027 Speaker 4: against the All Blacks, and you can see that with 132 00:05:37,067 --> 00:05:38,667 Speaker 4: the fear that they've got over there. You know, if 133 00:05:38,667 --> 00:05:40,427 Speaker 4: anyone goes over to France and you see how they 134 00:05:40,467 --> 00:05:43,747 Speaker 4: welcome us, it's it's crazy. You know, they really do 135 00:05:43,827 --> 00:05:45,467 Speaker 4: hold this game in high stock. And it's the same 136 00:05:45,467 --> 00:05:47,627 Speaker 4: for these young guys too, and they're out there to 137 00:05:47,627 --> 00:05:49,547 Speaker 4: make a name for themselves too. They very much know 138 00:05:49,627 --> 00:05:51,867 Speaker 4: that this is their chance to go against the world's 139 00:05:51,907 --> 00:05:54,227 Speaker 4: best with a world Cup in two years time. 140 00:05:54,307 --> 00:05:55,547 Speaker 3: They're not taking this slightly. 141 00:05:55,587 --> 00:05:57,827 Speaker 4: This is pretty much their chance to not only make 142 00:05:57,827 --> 00:06:00,827 Speaker 4: a name for themselves, but then also hopefully get a 143 00:06:00,827 --> 00:06:03,707 Speaker 4: few more tests in before Favan got here and makes 144 00:06:03,707 --> 00:06:05,347 Speaker 4: that team announcement in a couple of years time. 145 00:06:05,787 --> 00:06:08,747 Speaker 2: And just back to your time in the Black Jersey, Victor, 146 00:06:08,907 --> 00:06:12,147 Speaker 2: you know you mentioned Richie McCaw, Karen Reid, Jerome Kinder 147 00:06:12,227 --> 00:06:13,867 Speaker 2: there you played for the All Blacks in the time 148 00:06:13,867 --> 00:06:16,867 Speaker 2: of amazing loose forward depth with those guys Adam Thompson, 149 00:06:16,947 --> 00:06:19,427 Speaker 2: Sam Kaineley and Messi and others. What was it like 150 00:06:19,467 --> 00:06:21,467 Speaker 2: inside the All Blacks at that time with so much 151 00:06:21,507 --> 00:06:23,707 Speaker 2: competition for those loose forward spots. 152 00:06:25,107 --> 00:06:27,587 Speaker 4: I tell you what, it was obviously hard to get 153 00:06:27,587 --> 00:06:31,907 Speaker 4: a starting jersey, but to the same token, it was 154 00:06:31,907 --> 00:06:34,147 Speaker 4: probably if you're a loose forward anywhere in the world, 155 00:06:34,227 --> 00:06:36,467 Speaker 4: it was as especially as a young guy coming through, 156 00:06:36,467 --> 00:06:39,387 Speaker 4: there wasn't a better place to learn. You know, you 157 00:06:39,467 --> 00:06:41,627 Speaker 4: had three guys in Jerome that you know that you 158 00:06:41,707 --> 00:06:45,587 Speaker 4: mentioned in Jerome, Karin and Richie that were at absolute 159 00:06:45,587 --> 00:06:47,267 Speaker 4: top of their games, all at the same time. 160 00:06:47,827 --> 00:06:49,747 Speaker 3: And it's just been around that, especially. 161 00:06:49,467 --> 00:06:51,547 Speaker 4: With even Liam who bought a lot of their physicality, 162 00:06:51,587 --> 00:06:55,507 Speaker 4: Sammy Kaine, tom O, you know, even with his lineout progress, 163 00:06:55,587 --> 00:06:57,667 Speaker 4: all these different guys that were literally at the top 164 00:06:57,747 --> 00:07:00,307 Speaker 4: of the you know, absolute top of their games. I 165 00:07:00,347 --> 00:07:02,827 Speaker 4: think I definitely took a lot of learnings, you know, 166 00:07:02,907 --> 00:07:05,027 Speaker 4: for Rito and the way he likes to read a 167 00:07:05,067 --> 00:07:08,467 Speaker 4: lineout and how he sees potential defensive openings for him 168 00:07:08,507 --> 00:07:10,587 Speaker 4: to run his lines. He always used to run great lines. 169 00:07:10,907 --> 00:07:13,347 Speaker 4: And then Richie the way he used to approach the breakdown, 170 00:07:14,547 --> 00:07:17,147 Speaker 4: and then obviously providers link play. And then there's Jerome 171 00:07:17,267 --> 00:07:19,147 Speaker 4: just the way he sort of just assessed something or 172 00:07:19,267 --> 00:07:21,187 Speaker 4: just would know when to read that. So they needed 173 00:07:21,187 --> 00:07:25,627 Speaker 4: to happen defensively to turn the tide. It was a 174 00:07:25,627 --> 00:07:27,107 Speaker 4: great place to be a loose forward and a great 175 00:07:27,147 --> 00:07:28,747 Speaker 4: place to learn. And I think there was something that 176 00:07:28,827 --> 00:07:31,187 Speaker 4: was really awesome and the fact that we could be 177 00:07:31,267 --> 00:07:33,667 Speaker 4: one hundred percent competitive, knowing that we all wanted that 178 00:07:33,747 --> 00:07:37,107 Speaker 4: starting Jersey, but in the end, knowing that we were 179 00:07:37,107 --> 00:07:39,027 Speaker 4: there to cooperate. And you know, so if I'm sitting 180 00:07:39,147 --> 00:07:41,147 Speaker 4: at the computers, they'll be care in there saying, oh, 181 00:07:41,187 --> 00:07:43,947 Speaker 4: look look at these linear this is how I look 182 00:07:43,947 --> 00:07:45,787 Speaker 4: at it. And then it'll be Richie doing the same, 183 00:07:45,907 --> 00:07:48,147 Speaker 4: Jerome doing the same. It's just everyone wanting to better 184 00:07:48,187 --> 00:07:50,787 Speaker 4: each other. I think that's that was a massive part 185 00:07:50,827 --> 00:07:52,667 Speaker 4: of our success and it wasn't just a loose towards. 186 00:07:52,747 --> 00:07:54,827 Speaker 3: Everyone was doing that. So great time to be a 187 00:07:54,827 --> 00:07:56,507 Speaker 3: part of Insied rugby. 188 00:07:56,187 --> 00:07:58,187 Speaker 2: Indeed a golden period that you were part of. Vict 189 00:07:58,187 --> 00:08:00,067 Speaker 2: to really appreciate your time this afternoon, mate, thanks for 190 00:08:00,147 --> 00:08:00,587 Speaker 2: joining us. 191 00:08:00,787 --> 00:08:02,587 Speaker 3: Cheers money, cheers mate, No thank you. 192 00:08:02,547 --> 00:08:05,747 Speaker 2: Mate, That aspected Victor joining us on Weekend Sport. 193 00:08:06,707 --> 00:08:09,907 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 194 00:08:09,987 --> 00:08:13,307 Speaker 1: to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow 195 00:08:13,307 --> 00:08:14,947 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio