1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Kyotra. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: no secret New Zealand is suffering a major mental health crisis. 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Some people, including teens and children, often wait weeks to 5 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: see someone when they seek help. It's so dire. A 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: survey of those at the cold face of the crisis 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: describes a system that's under pressure, under resourced and under 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: delivering for New Zealanders. So is there any hope on 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: the horizon? With the Coalition government's edition of a specialized 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: mental health portfolio Today on the front Page, mental Health 11 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Minister Matt Doocey is with us to discuss what moves 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: are being made to make sure there's help there when 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: we need it. Minister, we all know New Zealand has 14 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: something of a mental health crisis at the moment. Hey, 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: how bad is it? 16 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 3: Fair to say there's a lot of pressure at the 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 3: moment on our mental health system. We're seeing rising levels 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: of unmet need, more people reporting distress and when we 20 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: look at the sector itself, there's a growing number of 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 3: workforce vacancies. So I think largely as a country, we've 22 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 3: done very well creating a culture where people are facing 23 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: less stigma and discrimination. But I think what's happening now 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: as more people are choosing to be more open and 25 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: be more trusting and ask for help, sadly that support 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 3: is not there well. 27 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: The Mental Health and Wellbeing Commissions found fifteen to twenty 28 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: four year olds report the highest level of psychological distress 29 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: of any age. Is that a real concern? 30 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so, because when you look at mental health, 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: I mean what we should be doing is treating mental illness, 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: but also a parallel work stream of promoting better mental 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: health and wellbeing. And when we look at the life course, 34 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: it's just vital that we work with young people to 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: support them to be mentally well through education and skills 36 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 3: training so they can assist themselves with the ability to 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: manage their mental health and deal with everyday stresses. But 38 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 3: also for those who go on to develop lifelong and 39 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: enduring mental illness, the adolescent years are vitally important to 40 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 3: intervene earlier and engage those young people to ensure they 41 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: can get some timely support. 42 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: And we know there's a growing number of teens and 43 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: children waiting weeks, if not months for the help that 44 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: they need. Is this good enough? 45 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: No? No, quite, frankly is not good enough. Look at 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: the last government who made quite a big play on 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: mental health. They talked about the one point nine billion 48 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: that still today the sector hasn't seen. They've promised to 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: transform the sector. Yet the Order to General report that 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: was released a couple of months ago showed that waiting 51 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: times for young persons specialist services have actually gone backwards. 52 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 3: And for me, a large part of that is the 53 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 3: workforce vacancies. And even in that report, the Orders of 54 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: General stated that there just doesn't appear to be a 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: plan to grow the mental health and addiction workforce. So 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 3: we're focused on producing New Zealand's first independent and standalone 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: mental health and workforce plan that will be focused on 58 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: driving down vacancy rates in health New Zealand. 59 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: When should we expect to see that plan. 60 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: I'm hoping to get that out in the next month. 61 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: I remember Herald has reported on just one case. It's 62 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: Ryan Aiah Boyd, a thirteen year old girl who is 63 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: believed to have died after struggling with bully. Her aunt's 64 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: I remember wrote an open letter calling for change. What 65 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: would you say to those families in those situations who 66 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: feel that government really isn't doing enough. 67 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: You know, my thoughts and prayers are with that individual 68 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 3: and family and friends. And as the Mental Health Minister, 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: I do meet quite regularly with people who have been 70 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 3: bereave by suicide, attempted suicide themselves, or been in the 71 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: mental health system over a number of years. And I 72 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: think what we need to ensure is we give people 73 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: timely access to support. And when we're talking about young people, 74 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: we know we have growing levels of unmet need. We 75 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 3: know the waiting lists are getting longer, and that's why 76 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 3: for this government, we want to pair up with the 77 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: NGL and community sector because they're a sector that has 78 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: the capacity to grow. We want to get more money 79 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: out of the beehive to the grassroots. So if you 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: look at one of the announcements we've made already is 81 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: the twenty four million dollars to gum Boot Friday. That's 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 3: an organization that has several hundred young people specific counselors 83 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: who can provide a level of support within twenty four hours, 84 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: and that investment will support an extra fifteen thousand young 85 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: people accessing that support. And I'm really keen for that 86 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: investment into gum Boot Friday to support young people, specifically 87 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: on waiting lists, because a young person on a weight 88 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: list is quite a red flag to potential risk. And 89 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 3: also if we can get in earlier, it stops their 90 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 3: mental health deteriorating further. So we're going to make sure 91 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 3: we focus on those wait lists. 92 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 2: For this new money, we can provide even more services 93 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: and more diverse counselors than ever before. We will be 94 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: reporting every single cent every session. If they want to 95 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: report weekly, I will give you a report weekly, so 96 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 2: we ll be totally transparent. 97 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: What do you make of the backlash from people questioning 98 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: why this one organization got such a large chunk of 99 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: cash while other grassroots agencies say have to go through 100 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: the proper funding channels. 101 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: Well, it was a coalition agreement between the three parties 102 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 3: of New Zealand First and Act and National to fund 103 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: gum Boot Friday to. 104 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: The tune of twenty four million. 105 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: Though, yeah, it's six million dollars a year over four years, 106 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 3: isn't it. It shows the level of need to be 107 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: frank and it shows the immediacy that we need to respond. 108 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: Gumboot Friday has a number of young people specific mental 109 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: health counselors that can be deployed and to see people 110 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 3: within a matter of a day or two, and that's 111 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: what we want to fund. We make no bones about it. 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 3: We want to get the money out of the beehive 113 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 3: to the grass roots and scale up organizations that have 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: facity to deliver, and that's what gun Boot Friday can offer. Also, 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: recently we announce the ten million dollar Innovation Fund that 116 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 3: will pair up with other NGOs to co fund them 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: to scale up as well. So it shows the direction 118 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 3: of travel for this government. We're serious about it and 119 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: we're ready to back organizations who can scale up and deliver. 120 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: What results has gun Boot Friday had that make it 121 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: worthy of such a huge injection of cash and do 122 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: they have the capacity to basically be the government's endorsed 123 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: charitable service at this point. 124 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: Well, what we're looking for within organizations is the ability 125 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: for them to scale up. When you look at gun 126 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: Boot Friday specifically, they have a large number of workforce 127 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: that they can deploy, and when you look at the 128 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 3: publicly funded mental health system, it is constrained, and part 129 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: of that constraint is the existing workforce in the mental 130 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: health system. So we want to back enngo and community 131 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: groups who can support the publicly funded mental health system 132 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 3: take some of the demand away from it. And when 133 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: you look at specifically Gumboot Friday, they can evidence a 134 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: social return on investment. And that is similar to our 135 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: Innovation Fund, where we're looking for NGOs and community organizations 136 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: to evidence a social return on investment that shows their 137 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 3: delivering and their effective. 138 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: You've already mentioned Labour's one point nine billion dollar investment 139 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: in mental health? Did that make any difference at all? 140 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: And now we have mental health targets, right, will that 141 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: ensure that we actually start to see that bang we're 142 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: getting for our buck in the mental health space. 143 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 3: Well, what Labor did prove in the last two terms 144 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: was actually money isn't the sole answer and solution to 145 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 3: dealing with the issues in mental health. And to answer 146 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: your question when you said did it make a difference, well, 147 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: even the Independent Mental Health and Wellbeing Commissioned said they 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: couldn't find any evidence of that investment making a difference 149 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: and they actually called for a plan. So beggars belief 150 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: that a lot of money was promised, We're not sure 151 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: where it went and there was actually no plan and 152 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: what we want to do is ensure that when we 153 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 3: make investment into mental health, but into other areas as well, 154 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: that a government spends money on to ensure that we 155 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: a hold ourselves accountable. Is a government to where that 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: tax byer money has been invested into, but ensure we 157 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: get results. So look a part of my new role 158 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: of New Zealand's first Mental Health Minister and look to 159 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 3: be very candid. Just giving someone a job doesn't make 160 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: a difference. Nothing's changed because there's a new person in 161 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: a job. But clearly what I choose to do with 162 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 3: this role to how it helps support better mental health 163 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: is what I will be held to account over the 164 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: next few years. But part of my role is to 165 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 3: be responsible for the mental health and addiction ring fence 166 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: funding in New Zealand. That's a two point six billion 167 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 3: dollars spend every year and I want to ensure that 168 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: that's delivering. So last week with the Prime Minister Christopher Luxen, 169 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: we announced five targets that are focused on access eighty 170 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 3: percent of people to be seen in specialist services within 171 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 3: three weeks, eighty percent to be seen by primary mental 172 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 3: health services in one week, as well as committing to 173 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 3: train an extra five hundred mental health professionals a year 174 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: out of baseline funding and to focus on prevention and 175 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: early intervention through committing to spending twenty five percent of 176 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: that ring fence funding on prevention early intervention. 177 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 4: We all know people are waiting weeks, if not months, 178 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 4: to see a counselor they're often no bed or no 179 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 4: facilities or nowhere for parents to turn to. We want 180 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 4: targets because it actually focuses our ministers and our government. 181 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 4: It also focuses very much our public service. 182 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: In terms of those targets, will we get a good 183 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: look what will there be monthly stats? Quarterly? 184 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we'll start off with quarterly. I'm happy 185 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 3: to move to monthly if it shows that that will 186 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 3: further support performance and accountability for me. Looking at those targets, 187 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: there'll be a need in some areas because they're new 188 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 3: to set up the data capture, reporting and quality. But 189 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: ultimately what we want to see is a clear line 190 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: of sight around accountability and performance as well. So when 191 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: you look at the target of eighty percent of people 192 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 3: been seen within three weeks for specialist services from the 193 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: data we capture at the moment, which is definitely not complete. 194 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: We might be sitting around seventy five five percent, but 195 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: actually when you look at young people, we're probably sitting 196 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: closer to around sixty six percent, And not that we're 197 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: measuring it at the moment, but I'm sure if you 198 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: were to look at MARDI or maybe people living in 199 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: rural communities, that would be well below the benchmark of 200 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 3: eighty percent as well. So it gives us ability to 201 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: get visibility over a range of groups and priority groups 202 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 3: and groups of people who are on the wrong side 203 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: of mental health and suicide statistics to ensure that they 204 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: can access the support they need. 205 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: And you mentioned staff for we know that staff vacancy 206 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: rates have doubled since twenty eighteen. What can actually be 207 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: done to get more workers in the mental health sector? 208 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think this is primarily one of the 209 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: key areas where the last government fell over on. I 210 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: think as a minister it might be the easier part 211 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 3: of announcing money, but the difficult part is turning that 212 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 3: investment into new services on the ground. And you can 213 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: announce money, but if you don't have the workforce to deploy, 214 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: those services will never open. In fact, last year there 215 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: was an impatient facility that closed down here in Canterbury 216 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 3: through lack of staffing, and even an adolescent mental health 217 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: service I visited in Wellington a few months ago had 218 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: a fifty percent workforce vacancy rate, so there's no surprise 219 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 3: people were stuck on waiting lists and unable to access 220 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 3: the support. So for me, it's twofold. We need to 221 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: look at our current training pipelines for mental health professionals. 222 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: So if you look at something like clinical psychology, the 223 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: advice I've got is we need around two hundred to 224 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty more clinical psychologists a year, but 225 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 3: currently our pipeline only trains fifty. But when you actually 226 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: dig into the data, what it also shows is about 227 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: four hundred people who graduate with undergraduate psychology degrees every 228 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 3: year in New Zealand, but when they miss out on 229 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: one of those fifty internship plays, they disappear from the sector. 230 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 3: So we want to do some new stuff as well. 231 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,359 Speaker 3: I'm looking at a new registration of an associate psychology 232 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: role where we can look at giving those people a 233 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 3: new registration and a new route into the field, and 234 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 3: I think that's quite exciting. 235 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: Would that be kind of like becoming a teacherade or 236 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: something in the classroom. 237 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's based on the UK model. It's been very 238 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: successful over there. I had the fortunate experience of working 239 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 3: for the NHS in London for over ten years and 240 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: fear to say quite a lot of comparable countries are 241 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 3: grappling with the same issues. So it would be for 242 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: someone to be coming in at an associate level to 243 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: have an agreed scope to acknowledge that where they are 244 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: at that point of time and their profession, and it 245 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: gives them an ability to train in their role as 246 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,479 Speaker 3: well to maybe go on to be a clinical psychologist. 247 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 3: And I think what we want to do is make 248 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: sure that we open up the exhibit sting pipelines of 249 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 3: training we have in New Zealand, but actually think quite 250 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: differently about new registrations. Another area I'm queen keen to 251 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 3: expand is the peer support and lived experience workforce, hugely 252 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: underutilized in New Zealand. I've recently announced a one million 253 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: dollar fund to allow more people to get the level 254 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: for certification to achieve those roles, but also a new 255 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: service of peer support and lived experience workers in ED 256 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: departments across New Zealand to provide timely support as well. 257 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 3: So I think we've got to pull all the levers 258 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: and that comes back to this mental health and addiction 259 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: workforce plan that we have not had, and we will 260 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: produce that in the coming months. 261 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, speaking of data, one in five New 262 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: Zealanders experience mental illness in their lifetime in prison. These 263 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: figures are significantly higher, more than nine out of TAN, 264 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: So that's ninety one percent of people in prison have 265 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: had a lifetime diagnosis of a mental health or substance 266 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: abuse disorder. That's shocking, isn't it. 267 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, significantly high rates, which I would probably say are 268 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: significantly under reported as well. There isn't consistent screening and 269 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: assessment tools used for our prisoners. Recently, the government's move 270 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 3: to change the settings to allow RAMAND prisoners because they 271 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: a growing population within our prisons and our correction facilities 272 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: at the moment, to access rehabilitation programs, including mental health 273 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: and addiction services. Before they were unable to do that 274 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: because they were on romand as well. But I fundamentally 275 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: believe it's right for if someone meets a threshold of 276 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: incarceration to keep the community. But it's actually also incumbent 277 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: of the government of the day to ensure that why 278 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 3: the person is in prison, we ensure that we can 279 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: support them to the best of our abilities with rehabilitation programs, 280 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 3: including mental health and addiction services, to ensure that when 281 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 3: they are released, they do reintegrate back into society and 282 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 3: they're not looking to re offend and come back into prison. 283 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: So a key part of this new role is New 284 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: Zealand's first Mental Health Minister is not only to manage 285 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 3: the two point six billion ring fence funding for mental 286 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: health and addictions, but to work together with my colleagues 287 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 3: around the cabinet table to develop in all of government strategies. 288 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 3: So what are we doing in education, what are we 289 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 3: doing in prisons, in housing and social services and the like, 290 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 3: to ensure that we're connecting up all the mental health 291 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 3: support across the government departments. 292 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so more does need to be done, hey, in prisons. 293 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: When it comes to mental health support, I think. 294 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: There's a lot we can do. There's a growing area 295 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 3: of work now around neurodiversity as well, not specifically a 296 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: mental health condition, but I think with the ability now 297 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 3: to screen, assess and help people get better support, I 298 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: think it's the way forward because the government's committed on 299 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 3: reducing offending and also recidivism in crime, especially youth crime, 300 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 3: and I think mental health support and addiction support will 301 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 3: keep part of that. 302 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: Is your government committed to making it easier for people 303 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: to get diagnosed and treated for those neurodiversity conditions. 304 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, We're possible. And I think it links back into 305 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 3: the conversation we've had around workforce and potentially looking at 306 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 3: the scope of practices for some of our workforce professions. 307 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: A good example is the work and in fairness it's 308 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 3: my colleague across Ile, Chloe Strawbrick from the Greens who's 309 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 3: leading a lot of this work and look, I want 310 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 3: to take a bipartisan approach to mental health. 311 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 5: For kiwi's living with ADHD, including some of the most recognizable. 312 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 5: A diagnosis can be life changing, but hope is on 313 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 5: the horizon. Swarwick chairs Parliament's Cross party Mental Health Group 314 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 5: and says there is now a consensus on two critical changes. 315 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 6: The ability for GPS to prescribe, which can happen in 316 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 6: a matter of months if pharmac prioritizes that and ministers 317 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 6: see to that. And the second is a review of 318 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 6: the special authority process which is currently a massive roadblock 319 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 6: that requires those with ADHD to go back to their 320 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 6: psychiatrists every two years to showcase that their brain has 321 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 6: in fact not dramatically altered misself. 322 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 3: Chloe from the Greens and the whistle Wall from Labor 323 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: at the time set up New Zealand Parliament's first cross 324 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: party Mental Health Group, and I really want to make 325 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 3: some enduring changes that will go past the three year 326 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: parliamentary cycle. And some of the work we're doing that 327 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 3: Chloe has been leading as well around ADHD is understanding 328 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 3: whether it needs to be a psychiatrist that signs off 329 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: the spe authority prescribing or some of the assessments. And 330 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 3: when we look at that and maybe start to think, 331 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 3: is there other medical professions that can pick some of 332 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 3: that work up to free up more capacity within psychiatry, 333 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 3: because part of their short at the moment with the 334 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 3: competing priorities is that someone who's perceived has been stable 335 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: but needing neurodiverse assessment might be not as prioritized as 336 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 3: someone in a mental health condition and crisis. Hence the 337 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 3: person looking for an ADHD assessment might have to wait 338 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: two years. And so I think that piece of work 339 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 3: is quite exciting where we look about who's currently delivering 340 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 3: that scope and where else that might sit. And I 341 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: think that will free up capacity in our workforce as well. 342 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: And should there be a separate mental health option when 343 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: people call one one one? We know mental health call 344 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: outs are taking a huge chunk of police time and resource. Hey, 345 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: what's the solution here? 346 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well it's interesting because I've asked me a few 347 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: years ago, I would have had a slightly different answer. 348 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: And why I mean that is the last National government 349 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen announced a Mental Health Coresponse Team which 350 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 3: paired up police and mental health professionals, but sadly the 351 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: incoming Labor government in twenty eighteen canceled that. So we've 352 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: lost six years of work where we potentially could be 353 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 3: developing better models of response to mental health crisis. I 354 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 3: think mental health crisis is something that we need to 355 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 3: do a lot better in New Zealand. But the work 356 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: is becoming very interesting because what the data is showing 357 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 3: as we look in to the Triple one calls that 358 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 3: police are responding to, is there a number of calls 359 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: of people who are calling up around issues like loneliness, grief, 360 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 3: potentially financial issues, relationship issues, and they're very important issues 361 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 3: for the person, but not necessarily a call through one 362 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: one one that would trigger a police response or a 363 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 3: mental health crisis call out response. So look, I think 364 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: it's about time we looked at the dispatch center. I've 365 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: been quite open. I do think it's time we have 366 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 3: a fourth option where you ring up and say police, ambulance, fire, 367 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: or mental health. But then we need to look at 368 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 3: who would potentially respond to that call if it's a 369 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 3: threat to the individual or someone else. Could be a 370 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 3: police response, it could be paired up with mental health 371 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 3: in the co response teams, or it could be mental 372 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 3: health teams on their own, or another agency approach if 373 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: it's appropriate. And then from there, I think we also 374 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 3: need to think about where is the best place to 375 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: take that person. And I know there's some new work 376 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 3: evolving around the country about what's called crisis cafes where 377 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: people are taken to a crisis cafe manned by support 378 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 3: and lived experience workers. And there some work around the 379 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 3: country where parts of emergency departments are fitted out so 380 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: they're more appropriate for someone coming in crisis, so they're 381 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 3: not brightly lit. A lot of people with noisy as well. 382 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 3: So that piece of work is going to be three 383 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: to five years. I've got to report back with Mark Mitchell, 384 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 3: the Police Minister, in November to Cabinet to give an 385 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 3: update and a plan over the next few years how 386 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: we'll take that forward. Because I want to finish saying 387 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 3: how lucky we are to have the New Zealand Police 388 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: who respond to mental health crisis callouts, because as we've 389 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 3: seen in the UK, the Metropolitan Police have started to 390 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 3: stop responding to mental health crisis callouts and we don't 391 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: want to be in that position, so we need to 392 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 3: ensure we've got the workforce to respond. 393 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: And lastly, minutes, so you've got quite a bit of 394 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: work ahead of you. There's two and a half years 395 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: until the next election and there's a lot to be done. 396 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: Like you mentioned, that is the possible ability of another 397 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: government coming in and scrapping things, right. Are you prepared 398 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: to work across Parliament on bipartisan deals that will make 399 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: sure that some of these plans will actually survive subsequent governments? 400 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 3: Very much so. I'm a consensus politician. I look to 401 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 3: work and in ways that are enduring change. If that 402 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 3: requires me to compromise or concede at times. I'm prepared 403 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 3: to do that because what I want to ensure is 404 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 3: we do have long term change to address the mental 405 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 3: health issues in this country. One of the successes I 406 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 3: think in my role as a Mental Health Minister is 407 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: that when there is a change of government, however long 408 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: that takes, the incoming government looks at what change we 409 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 3: made with this new role and decides to continue with it. 410 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 3: And I am committed to taking a bipartisan approach. I've 411 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 3: already met with the Cross part Mental Health Group to 412 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 3: add my support to what they are doing. As the 413 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 3: new minister, I'm actually the first minister to meet with 414 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 3: that group. Is no labor minister meet with them in 415 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: the last two terms, and I'm committed to working with 416 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: them and whoever else wants to work collaboratively in mental 417 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: health within Parliament because that's where I think the change 418 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: will happen. 419 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Minister. That said, for this episode 420 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: of the Front Page, you can read more about today's 421 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at enzat Herald dot co 422 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sells 423 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: with sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels subscribe to 424 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 425 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.