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Speaker 1: Jason Wall's political edit is with us.

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Speaker 2: Hey Jason, good afternoon, Heather.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So having a crack at each other over pay

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Speaker 1: equity again, are they indeed?

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Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm sorry if you're sick of this story,

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Speaker 2: but it does keep it does have the legs to

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Speaker 2: keep going because the NATS firmly went on the attack today.

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Speaker 2: They very much changed tack in terms of what was

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Speaker 2: last week. It was very much the explaining is losing

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Speaker 2: and they saw what was going on and they decided

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Speaker 2: to They decided to go through a different direction. Now

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Speaker 2: it kind of all hinges on a lot of what

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Speaker 2: the opposition has been saying. But this video from Chris Hipkins,

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Speaker 2: obviously Labor Leader, is sort of the main thrust of

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Speaker 2: what happened today. Have a listen.

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Speaker 3: Did you see that Christopher Luxen is now taking money

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Speaker 3: out of women's pay packets? Last week, National Force through

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Speaker 3: a law change that will stop thousands of women from

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Speaker 3: getting the pay they deserve.

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Speaker 2: So it's that taking women, it's taking money rather out

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Speaker 2: of women's pay packets that has really got the NATS

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Speaker 2: fired up. It started this morning with Chris Bishop who

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Speaker 2: actually went as is using the dreaded L word.

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Speaker 4: The Labor Party is lying and they spent much of

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Speaker 4: the last week lying about National's approach to pay equity.

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Speaker 2: Then that Chris Luxon had a go.

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Speaker 4: Look, I just think it's a terrible shame that Labour's

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Speaker 4: resorting to lies and misinformation.

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Speaker 2: Frankly, and at this point you're probably sensing a bit

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Speaker 2: of a theme here. It was Nikola Willis Leader in

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Speaker 2: the morning.

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Speaker 4: It is one thing to claim that there is a

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Speaker 4: debate to be had about the process by which pay

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Speaker 4: equity regimes are negotiated and settled. It is another thing

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Speaker 4: to tell an outright lie to New Zealand workers that

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Speaker 4: women's pay is being capped. That is a lie.

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Speaker 2: So it was lie, lie, lie the entire day until

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Speaker 2: it got to the House because you're not technically allowed

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Speaker 2: to use the L word in the house. So I

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Speaker 2: think you know this tactic here the Nats do. It

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Speaker 2: seems it feels like the Dale has shifted somewhat on

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Speaker 2: this story here. So we put this to Chris Hipkins

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Speaker 2: this morning and he completely dug in his heels.

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Speaker 3: That money was otherwise going to be going into women's paypackets.

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Speaker 3: Taking it away it means you're taking it away.

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Speaker 4: Can you see how some interprets that comment instead of

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Speaker 4: singing that Chris wants in the second money out of

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Speaker 4: the current.

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Speaker 3: APIs taking money away that women were otherwise going to get.

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Speaker 2: Is a cut, and you can see why the Nats

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Speaker 2: are pushing back on this one. I mean, it is

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Speaker 2: quite a leap by Chris Hipkins and he's making quite

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Speaker 2: a lot of assumptions to get there. And it does feel,

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Speaker 2: as I said, like the government has started to take

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Speaker 2: control back over this issue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. Now what do you make of this

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Speaker 1: business when Nikola Willis is barring the union and the

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Speaker 1: C to you and the Taxpayers Union in the New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Initiative in Business New Zealand from the lock up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny one. And frankly, I'm not actually

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Speaker 2: that surprised. We saw a similar thing happening at the

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Speaker 2: half year Fiscal and Economic Yeah that hifu. Yeah, it happened,

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Speaker 2: and they barred the C to you and they barred

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Speaker 2: the Taxpayers Union from coming in at the time. The

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Speaker 2: Treasury said that the purpose of these briefings was to

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Speaker 2: provide journalists and analysts from the media, economic and financial

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Speaker 2: organizations with sufficient time so that complex information presented can

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Speaker 2: be analyzed and reported a when the embargo les lefts

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Speaker 2: assisting in the transparency and accountability of the public. And

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Speaker 2: it seems like she's carrying that one over when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the actual budget itself. And you do look

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Speaker 2: at this and you're like, the unions, does the taxpayers

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Speaker 2: unions really need to be there at the same time

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Speaker 2: as us? Of course you think so, yep, okay, because.

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Speaker 1: Because do you think that you understand financial finances better

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Speaker 1: than Eric Crampton from the New Zealand Initiative.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, that's not really what I would use the

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Speaker 2: budget lockup for. If I really want to get into

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Speaker 2: the weeds of some of the more curly financial questions,

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Speaker 2: I can come to them afterwards. That lock up period,

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Speaker 2: for me is a period where.

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Speaker 1: About what Jason wants is it. It's about what's the

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Speaker 1: best what's in the best interests of the country. And surely,

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Speaker 1: I mean the point of the lockup is that we

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Speaker 1: all sit there for what is it four hours or thereabouts,

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Speaker 1: and we have really like quiet time to completely digest

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Speaker 1: everything that's in there and then come out and tell

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Speaker 1: the New Zealand public what's in there. What why would

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Speaker 1: you not want to have a trained economist in there

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Speaker 1: looking at it and saying this is a problem that

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Speaker 1: I can see.

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Speaker 2: Well, they are still in there. I mean that's the

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Speaker 2: point that i'd make. You still have economists from A

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Speaker 2: and Z. I mean you still have your brad Olsen's

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Speaker 2: and a few others in there as well, because they do.

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Speaker 1: The way is brad Olsen in there and not the

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Speaker 1: New Zealand Initiative?

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Speaker 2: Well the Brad Also if you look at the market player,

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Speaker 2: I mean A and Z would be in there for example,

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Speaker 2: because if there is significant moves to the currency, or

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Speaker 2: if there are significant moves within the budget, which means

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Speaker 2: that there is a significant fallback on various different positions

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Speaker 2: that they've taken. For example, I mean, has the more

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Speaker 2: of an implication of a big bank economist is there

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Speaker 2: rather than a union that I would say, which is

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Speaker 2: just going to look at the information and put out

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Speaker 2: a press release That would be the same as you

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Speaker 2: would be looking at if it was two hours.

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Speaker 1: But what about what about an Eric Crampton for example?

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Speaker 1: I mean Eric Crempton as an I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of regard for this man, which is why I keep

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Speaker 1: using him as an example, he has a completely different

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Speaker 1: interest to a retail bank, right, his interest is policy.

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Speaker 1: Surely we value we get value from having him in there.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's my point is you could come find

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Speaker 2: somebody like that. Afterwards. You can, at that point in time,

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Speaker 2: what's the information in the budget look at some of

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Speaker 2: the bigger questions to do with the economy. You do

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Speaker 2: not need an economist to tell you to go to

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Speaker 2: the back of the budget and look at how the

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Speaker 2: different forecasts. There's a bit of variation. I mean, you know, Heather,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I can do these sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: I've been doing them for about nine years. I know

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Speaker 2: that I've got the likes of toys who would be

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Speaker 2: able to do them as well. But it's I think

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Speaker 2: that there is a time and a place for these people,

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Speaker 2: and you don't necessarily need them in the room.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I you know what, I'm shocked. I'm shocked by

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Speaker 1: what you've just said to me.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't come into this with an opinion, but

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Speaker 2: you've drawn it out of me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm shocked by it. And you should take that

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Speaker 1: opinion and in the rubbish. Oh I had Jason, Thank

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Speaker 1: you appreciate it. Jason Wall's News Talks. He'd be political editor.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive.

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Speaker 3: Listen live to News Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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