1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Now it looks like our government as well off track 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: on its benefit reduction target. The goal is to get 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty thousand people off job seeker, or 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: rather down to one hundred and forty thousand people on 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: job seeker. That's a drop of fifty thousand Right now 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: the numbers are moving in the opposite direction though, two 7 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three thousand kiwis are still on that goal. 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: That's the highest level in twelve years. Louise Upston is 9 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: the Social Development Minister. Hi Luiz, Hello, Heather, how are 10 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you well? Thank you? We can put this down to 11 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: the recession, can't we? 12 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean one of the things that we 13 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: do know when you've got high spending, high debt, inflation, 14 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: interest rates that are high, the last thing is unemployment 15 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: and so correcting unemployment is the last thing that follows. 16 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: What's really encouraging is in the Mzier Report, for example, 17 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: says that we are seeing business confidence the highest it's 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: been since twenty fourteen. What happens when businesses are confident, 19 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: they take on more staff. The staff that I've got, 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: they give more hours, they left wages. So we are 21 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: really confident that things have started to turn the corner. 22 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: We've also seen with the latest labor market figures for 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: the December quarter an additional fifteen thousand people in work. 24 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: So while the job seeking numbers are challenging, we're seeing 25 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: some very strong indicators with business confidence and labor market figures. 26 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: When is the fifty thousand reduction realistic. 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: Well, it's the target is for twenty thirty. It was 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: always going to be incredibly ambitious. But look here that 29 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: I look at every single person that we move off 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: welfare into work, the enormous difference it makes for them, 31 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: their family and their community. So that is what drives 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: me each and every day, person by person, connecting them 33 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: with a job, and despite their being challenging economic times, 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: last year we've seen eighty three thousand New Zealanders move 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: off welfare and into work. So what we are doing 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: is working. 37 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Can we say, though, that the benefits scene, which is 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: really the biggest thing that you've done to try to 39 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: get people off the doll aren't working. 40 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say that because the most recent research 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: into the traffic light system says that ninety percent of 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: the people found it useful in understanding what their obligations 43 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: are now. Remember these are obligations to be looking for work, 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: applying for jobs, be in contact with MSD, attending seminars, 45 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: attending training, all things that help them to find a 46 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: job when the labor market conditions improve. So I'm really 47 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: confident that as those businesses take on more staff, the 48 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: job seeger numbers are willful. We have a way more 49 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: active welfare system than we did when we came into office, 50 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: more people in case management, more individual support, people very 51 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: clear about what their obligations are and knowing there will 52 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: be consequences if they don't reach them. So there's a 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: wide array of things that we have done to improve 54 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 2: the welfare system and to ensure that more people move 55 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: off welfare into jobs. 56 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so at the moment we have got I think 57 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: it's thirteen percent of the working age population sitting on 58 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: some form of benefit. That's completely unacceptable, isn't it, Louise? 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: And you know it's not unusual that the UK had 60 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: a similar debate not long ago about one in ten 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: of them being on the doll What do we have 62 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: to do to get that number right down to where 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: it should be, which is far smaller. 64 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: Yes, So that's one of the concerns I had when 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: we came into office was despite there being very positive 66 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: economic times and employers desperate for staff, we saw job 67 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: seeking numbers go up under the last government. So yes, 68 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: we've got to focus on job seekers. We also have 69 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: to focus on reducing the number of sole parents on benefit. 70 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: When National was last in office, those numbers were falling 71 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: and we're falling for many years. Labor come in and 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: those numbers start going up again, and we're focused on 73 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: how we reduce those numbers. It's not one thing, it's multiple. 74 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: But you're right, we do have a higher proportion of 75 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: the New Zealand population on welfare than we can sustainably 76 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: support in the years and decades ahead. 77 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: What's a sustainable number do you think? 78 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: Look, I don't have a sort of target in mind. 79 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: My focus is definitely on job seekers. 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: No, I'm not asking you for a target, although I 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: realize about answering the question it will become a thing 82 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: for you. But what do you reckon is a sustainable number? 83 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: Look, I honestly don't know, and I haven't put a 84 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: lot of thought into it. I'm more interested in each 85 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: of the categories how we reduce it, and so I 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: sort of tend to focus on raw numbers rather than 87 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: percentages of the population because for me, I'm thinking about 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: real people. I'm thinking about real people. A sole parent, 89 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: how do we support her to gain back into part 90 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: time work and then into full time work. For a 91 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: job seeker that's got health conditions, how do we ensure 92 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: they're getting their health needs met so they have a 93 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: better chance of being back in a job. And that 94 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: is where very significant changes in MSD are very much 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: around more individualized system. That's why the increase in case 96 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: management is really critical. So we've now got seventy thousand 97 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 2: people in case management and that is across a range 98 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: of category. So it's not just in job seekers we 99 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 2: are looking at sole parents, We're looking at young people 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: because we want to do everything possible support people off 101 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: welfare so that I've got more choices and opportunities in 102 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: life and that person by person. 103 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: All right, Louise, thank you very much. I really appreciate 104 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: your time. It's Louis Upston, the Social Development Minister. For 105 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: more from Heather duplessy Ellen, drive live to News Talks. 106 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 107 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.