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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Mark Viddi is a world renowned animal behaviorist an educator

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Speaker 2: who has been working with animals for over forty years.

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Speaker 2: He's a trained animal psychologist as well, and he joins

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Speaker 2: us once a month on our Ask the Expert series.

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Speaker 2: He's back with us, Mark, Good afternoon.

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Speaker 3: Good afternoon. How are you very good?

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Speaker 4: Has it been a month already?

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Speaker 2: Time fly? Mark?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Finished the book since sin So that's good. Win's the

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Speaker 3: book out September. Your cat's in so cat Bavy book.

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Speaker 2: There you go, Oky, fantastic? Look like for that?

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Speaker 3: Well, Donald will be interested in a career and non

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Speaker 3: hunting cat.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, well look Donald be interested in that because

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Speaker 4: Donnad's got a cat question. Donna, I don't.

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Speaker 5: We have a Hi? We have a mixed breed one.

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Speaker 5: But he's mixed breed. He's crazy anyway, it's one a

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Speaker 5: half years old, is very very well fed at home.

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Speaker 5: He's lively anyway. He's taken now to not just chasing

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Speaker 5: mice's and killing them, but he's now eating them. Why

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Speaker 5: would he do that? He is an outside care he

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Speaker 5: is a hunter, but the previous cat wouldn't do that

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Speaker 5: at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very natural. It's very natural. I mean, cats

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Speaker 3: don't hunt or not hunt because they're hungry or not angry.

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Speaker 3: So it might seem unusual, but that's that's the nature

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Speaker 3: of that species. And so yeah, that when they hunt,

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Speaker 3: they they often don't eat initially when they're when they're

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Speaker 3: naive to hunting and they're early in hunting, they don't

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Speaker 3: get guided by the mother from four to six weeks on.

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Speaker 3: Then they don't have great hunting skills. In fact, my

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Speaker 3: new books, one of the big things that we're teaching

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Speaker 3: in that book is how to prevent hunting, you know,

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Speaker 3: to develop no hunt conditioning for particularly for birds, you know,

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Speaker 3: and just to decrease wildlife killing. But of course the

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Speaker 3: hunting mass and rats uns so much of an issue

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Speaker 3: in that sense because they also hunt the wildlife. So

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Speaker 3: so what we in that situation is natural for the

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Speaker 3: cat to eat. It's all. It's all natural that, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And as they develop they're hunting skills. They go from

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Speaker 3: just catching, which is part of what they do when

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Speaker 3: they're kittens, before they actually learned to kill and eat

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Speaker 3: and and there are different stages in the in the

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Speaker 3: hunting sequence what we what we call I used to

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Speaker 3: call a fixed action pattern, now called a modal action pattern.

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Speaker 3: So those are those are what the sequence of bavies

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Speaker 3: they go through in hunting, driven by different motivations or

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Speaker 3: seeking mechanisms in their hormones and so on. So that's

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Speaker 3: the way it all works. Yeah, they the question.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, what's your what's your book called?

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Speaker 6: There?

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Speaker 3: It'll be called Cats and it's coming out in September. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So it's it's about how to rear and train a cat,

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Speaker 3: and it's also about how to prevent how do.

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Speaker 2: You spell that?

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Speaker 3: See a t zdy in being able to teach a

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Speaker 3: cat to bond with you?

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Speaker 7: Really?

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for you called Donna.

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Speaker 2: So bet a mouse meat? Nothing wrong with a bit

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Speaker 2: of mouse meat for a cat then, no.

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Speaker 3: No, of course it's got all the goods and it

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Speaker 3: that's exactly what they're designed to eat. So that's only natural.

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Speaker 8: Here.

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Speaker 4: The tails are delicious. Welcome to show you've got a

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Speaker 4: you've got a cat question as well?

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Speaker 6: Hey Julie, Hello, sorry, Yes, one of my cats, the

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Speaker 6: one particularly you colimb under up on the beard.

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Speaker 9: She go under the bed clothes.

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Speaker 6: She'll come over to my side where I'm sleeping, and

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Speaker 6: she proceeds the backside to my face.

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Speaker 4: With the tail lifted up right up as well. That's

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Speaker 4: that's the that's what cats do. They love the tail

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Speaker 4: being right up under those circumstances exactly.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the interesting thing about cat normally what happens

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Speaker 3: when they come up to you is they come up

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Speaker 3: with their cheek and if you handle their cheek and

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Speaker 3: you'll hear them, of course they'll start pairing in that situation.

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Speaker 3: And as opposed to let them adopt their own position.

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Speaker 3: It's probably not that she's turning that way for any

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Speaker 3: particular reason except that she feels more comfortable that way.

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Speaker 3: But if you actually handle her in the chin cheek region,

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Speaker 3: then you'll see her keep presenting the front of her

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Speaker 3: head for a while and then and then she'll fall

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Speaker 3: a sheep in that position and she's start learning to

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Speaker 3: sleep that way, if that's what you wanted to do.

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Speaker 3: So kicking the cheek because that activates what we call

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Speaker 3: the perioal glands around the face there and that which

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Speaker 3: is their rubbing pheromones, and that's their meat and Greek

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Speaker 3: behavior towards their mum, and you're the mom. You're the

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Speaker 3: saying of mother.

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Speaker 2: Ah, Because I was going to ask why do cats

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Speaker 2: like to just stick their heads into small spaces? That's

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Speaker 2: probably why because they love a lot of cats. If

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Speaker 2: you know, you make a weee hole with your hands,

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Speaker 2: they love to just squeeze the hidden there. I take

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Speaker 2: it they've got some sort of you know, they just

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Speaker 2: laugh a bit of a chick scratch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well they do. And you'll see, you know how

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Speaker 3: they pushed against you when you come up and greet them,

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Speaker 3: And that's what you're after. I call that joining up

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Speaker 3: in cats. And so when I'm joining up with a cat,

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Speaker 3: I tickle the cheek. It's always the first place you

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Speaker 3: should touch a cat. Don't touch a cats anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: Always touch on the cheek. And that's for that reason,

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Speaker 3: fair enough.

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Speaker 2: To Yes, it's quite nice for humans as well.

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Speaker 3: I've got to say whiskers too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Like one hundred eighty eighty. We're joined by

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Speaker 2: Mark Vidi, Wild, renowned animal behaviorist. He's taking your questions.

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Speaker 2: You've got a problem with your pet? Here is the

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Speaker 2: man too?

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Speaker 3: Chat to it.

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Speaker 2: There's a couple of text questions comes through for your mark.

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Speaker 3: Here we go.

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Speaker 4: This is from a Chelsea. I'm adopting an adult cat

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Speaker 4: this weekend. She's five and not overly affectionate. How do

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Speaker 4: I make her love me?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a good question. One of the things about

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Speaker 3: cats is the early socialization that they have in the

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Speaker 3: two to seven week period predetermined pretty much the level

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Speaker 3: of sociality into the future, so depending on how much

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Speaker 3: they got, and clearly she didn't get that much at

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Speaker 3: that time or enough, and that's why she's a bit

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Speaker 3: more independent. However, if you've just got her, it does

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Speaker 3: take a while for a cat to adapt and resocialize

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Speaker 3: and rebond. So the best thing to do is once

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Speaker 3: you start getting feeding under control and she starts to

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Speaker 3: realize that you're in charge of those kind of goods,

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Speaker 3: then that's the first step towards your heart and clicker training.

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Speaker 3: I use to enhance that appetite and that ability for

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Speaker 3: them to realize that I'm in control of those resources

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Speaker 3: and I can get it to do things, even if

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Speaker 3: it's just to come and sit. But basically, what I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to do is make that relationship stronger, and the

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Speaker 3: way to do that is to utilize food in that

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Speaker 3: early stage, and when they do engage with you, then

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Speaker 3: you move into what I called joining up, which is

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Speaker 3: that little tickle on the cheek mainly, and don't progress

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Speaker 3: down the rest of the body for a little while

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Speaker 3: until the cat starts to show you that it wants

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Speaker 3: to engage you, and that's by rubbing the institu and

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Speaker 3: so don't force the issue with a cat.

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Speaker 4: Let him go, Daniel, Daniel, welcome the show. You've got

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Speaker 4: a question about a one year old dog.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, good, a hate she's thanks for taking the school.

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Speaker 7: Look we're going to be four and a half year

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Speaker 7: old boditarian. He's superb and we recently, well a year ago,

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Speaker 7: got a s other foxy, drawable little feller mostly super

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Speaker 7: well behaved.

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Speaker 8: In fact, just recently we've took him out of the

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Speaker 8: trade at night and he's stepping on his bed quite well.

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Speaker 8: No problems. The problems we have with him, we've got

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Speaker 8: plenty of true toys. But like today was probably the

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Speaker 8: third fourth time it's happened where he'll destroy something while

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Speaker 8: we're gone. But when I said, well we're gone, my

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Speaker 8: wife I'm lucky that enough she's a stay home mum

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Speaker 8: and the time she occasionally pops out for an hour

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Speaker 8: or two, and today destroyed a kid's school book, so

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Speaker 8: we're up for a library.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so starting to show separation to stress issues.

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Speaker 3: Does he seem to get anxious and how or worry

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Speaker 3: about you being when you leave when everyone goes away,

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Speaker 3: and is that when it's.

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Speaker 8: Happening now he seems to be quite happy. He didn't

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Speaker 8: like to create too much, and that's why we got

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Speaker 8: rid of that at night, and he's been great. Yes,

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Speaker 8: it's just when when my wife will leave home for

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Speaker 8: a couple of hours, it's like, I don't know, we

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Speaker 8: think it's almost like a rebellious Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It'll be separation distress once once you get a dog

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Speaker 3: that starts that gets datched at that level, which you know,

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Speaker 3: did you say he was rescue?

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Speaker 8: Was he no?

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Speaker 9: No, we've gone from week.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So it sounds like the basis of that would

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Speaker 3: be separation distress. So I'd expect I'd be doing a

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Speaker 3: little bit of what I call graduated departure around the

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Speaker 3: house and just see if he settles, you know, when

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Speaker 3: you leave for short periods and he can last. I'd also,

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Speaker 3: of course take up all the jewables to the to

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Speaker 3: the greed I can, and I would also look to

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Speaker 3: do some environmental management and decide to keep him in

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Speaker 3: a different place that's more suitable for not destroying the

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Speaker 3: important family things. And so I think about that just

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Speaker 3: over the first while. I suspect he's just getting more

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Speaker 3: attached and more and separation distress is setting in a

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Speaker 3: bit more particular when you got someone at home all

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Speaker 3: the time, they tend to get over attached. So I

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Speaker 3: suspect that's what's going on, and that's probably separation to

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Speaker 3: stress on. If you jump onto the schools, there's a

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Speaker 3: video on showing you how to do graduated departure. So

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Speaker 3: that's the technique that I'd be using, and hopefully that's

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Speaker 3: the issue.

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Speaker 4: Thank you call Daniel Susie. You've got to sen your

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Speaker 4: rescue dog.

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Speaker 6: That's a bit anxious, Yes I have, Yes, he's He

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Speaker 6: will just head butter window till it breaks and rip

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Speaker 6: up curtains, carpet toos off the knobs on the cabinet tree,

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Speaker 6: just loud noises and I can't.

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Speaker 3: Get him out of it. Yeah, So what we do

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Speaker 3: is we use a You go on to us YouTube

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Speaker 3: or iTunes, and there's also a couple of websites. If

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Speaker 3: you jump on my stuff those websites, so there you

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Speaker 3: can get what called what we call the sound scary

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Speaker 3: tapes and they just play them over over the speak

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Speaker 3: up and using a desensitization technique with clicking food reward,

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Speaker 3: you can then desensitize into those sounds. It takes about

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Speaker 3: six weeks. You've got to put a bit diffident obviously,

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Speaker 3: and it's very durable. If you how old is the

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Speaker 3: dog done? Seven? Yeah, so it's an adult and quite

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Speaker 3: late in life, so it's not unusual that as they

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Speaker 3: grow older they get a little bit more hypersensitive to noise,

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Speaker 3: but often it's had It was there to some degree

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Speaker 3: in the early stages, but now it's developed into a phobia.

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Speaker 3: So when you've got a phobia at that level, sometimes

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Speaker 3: we need drug facilitated therapy as well. If you jump

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Speaker 3: into dogs in either the book or the or the

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Speaker 3: online videos. This video on how to treat that, and

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Speaker 3: it shows you how to do the desensitization with a

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Speaker 3: clicker and sometimes you'll need leterary help with medication.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope that helps. Susie and Mau. You've got

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Speaker 4: a prolific liquor.

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Speaker 9: I have indeed, where have we? A nine year old

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Speaker 9: epso male dog and he's a great dog, but he's

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Speaker 9: a prolific liquor. Down beside us, he starts flicking. If

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Speaker 9: you're take him to her bedroom at nighttime, he slips

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Speaker 9: down there, licks and licks and licks not necessarily.

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Speaker 3: Himself. Yes, himself and you or himself.

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Speaker 9: Himself, tells us Mark, Yeah, he'll lick himself and then

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Speaker 9: he'll turn on us and start looking at leagus or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Licking because he got obsessive licking on his skin somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Is that what he's doing, like on his legs.

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Speaker 9: Can where he can reach, Mark, like he can his

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Speaker 9: foot to his belly or anywhere he can reach your lick?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and then he does the same with you.

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Speaker 9: He does, he does, yes, he does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nine years old. Is he is he getting geriatric?

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Speaker 3: Do you think is there any geriatric issues going on?

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Speaker 9: Well? No, I mean we've had him for quite some time,

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Speaker 9: he says, a nine year old.

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Speaker 3: We'd him nine year old is getting on.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, he is, like he has licked for a long

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Speaker 9: long time. Yeah, And we came to a vet. The

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Speaker 9: vet said, oh, look, it's probably anxiety or something like that.

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Speaker 9: But I just sort of can't see that being the case.

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Speaker 9: But dog, no, no.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, let me let me give you a trick.

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Speaker 3: Let me give you a trick to have a crack at.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, it's an obsessive behavior, as you can see,

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Speaker 3: and and licking and dog communication is soliciting. It's like kissing.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a it's a soliciting, appeasing gesture. And

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Speaker 3: that's why they do it to you, doing it to themselves.

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Speaker 3: It's often caused by something else, you know, namely an analogy.

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Speaker 3: But in this case, what I do is I click

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Speaker 3: a train them out of it, you know, which means

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Speaker 3: I get on the clicker with the high value food reward.

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Speaker 3: When they come into interaction with me. You know, the

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Speaker 3: first thing they're going to do is lick. So instead

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Speaker 3: of doing that, I click on the reward for not looking,

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Speaker 3: and which happens obviously, you can do that straight away

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Speaker 3: because they're not looking yet. And and then I delay

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Speaker 3: the click systematically for longer and longer until such time

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Speaker 3: as they stop the locking behavior. You've normally got to

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Speaker 3: redirect them onto some other activity like a chew toy.

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Speaker 3: A kong or something like that for the initial stages.

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Speaker 3: But as you progress you can actually teach them to

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Speaker 3: understand what you're doing. And then you just start to

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Speaker 3: put a leave at command then and you're not being

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Speaker 3: assertive or aggressive. You're just saying a queue and they

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Speaker 3: learn that queue and then they stop looking. But remember

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Speaker 3: every time you are assertive with them, they will increase

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Speaker 3: their looking, not decrease it. You can't do it by punishment.

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Speaker 4: Well, interesting, thank you, I reckon, I reckon my dog.

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Speaker 4: Colin starts looking just to wake me up on the morning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, starts going, well, that's another.

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Speaker 4: Five fifteen am. He wants a walk.

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Speaker 3: Normally mean it also normally means breakfast, doesn't it?

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Speaker 4: When you've missed heard that? Tyler? He's not looking in

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Speaker 4: my face. He's looking his own downstairs.

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Speaker 2: All right, okay, Yeah, he's having a good time. Ah.

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Speaker 2: Here's a question exactly, here's a question about a turtle. Mark.

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Speaker 2: Can you please ask Mark how long do red eared

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Speaker 2: sliders live for? We were given one about thirty years

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Speaker 2: ago and it is huge, still seems to be healthy,

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Speaker 2: but we don't know if he's geriatric or not.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, i'd have to use AI to check that

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Speaker 3: time frame, because but it's long. You know, all of

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Speaker 3: the reptiles, particularly the turtles and the tortoises, live a

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Speaker 3: long time, and so I would expect thirty or forty years,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not quite sure. Yeah, but I'll look that

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Speaker 3: up for you and give you the number. It's a

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Speaker 3: redlo did you say it's a red.

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Speaker 2: Red head red slider? Yep, ready to slider?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what about what the tortoise?

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Speaker 3: I'll go here if I can.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's that glapagus taught us Harriet that Charles Dowen

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Speaker 4: bought back on the beagle that live for one hundred

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Speaker 4: and seventy six years, gave it to the gave it

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Speaker 4: to the queen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good run.

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Speaker 4: Six years. That's not bad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Greenland shark I think the oldest

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Speaker 3: of three hundred and fifty or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Mark fantastic has always chock a block on the

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Speaker 2: phone and a whole heap of ticks that we'll have

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Speaker 2: to get to next time. Thank you very much, and

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Speaker 2: we'll catch in about a month's time here.

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Speaker 3: We look forward to it. Yeah, if you know one

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Speaker 3: needs more answers, just jump on their Facebook and we'll

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Speaker 3: direct you to an answer.

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Speaker 2: Yep, very good. Thank you that you can go check

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Speaker 2: it out Mark Vitti dot com and his cats In

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Speaker 2: book will be out soon.

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