1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Kilda. 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Remember when 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: we were meant to be smoke free by twenty twenty five? 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 3: New Zealand's goal. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: To have fewer than five percent of people smoking by 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: the end of the year looks unlikely to be met. 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: The target was introduced in twenty ten, and while. 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: Smoking has dropped significantly since then, from sixteen point four 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: percent and twenty eleven, for example, to six point nine 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty three twenty four, there are still 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of people in Altaioa smoking every day. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: In December twenty twenty two, New Zealand enacted world leading 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: tobacco control legislation, essentially creating a whole generation who'll never 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: be able to buy a pack of cigis. 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 3: But with that up in smoke, what's next? 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: Today? 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: On the front Page, hard by teh Or, Chief Operating 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: Officer Jackson Alexander is with us to discuss how we 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: might be able to reach our goal of being smoke free. So, Jason, 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: what do our smoking statistics look like at the moment? 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: So it is twenty twenty five, obviously a big year 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: for us. We've been aiming for five percent smoking rates 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 1: across all of our populations, but we're not quite there. 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: We won't know the official end of year data until 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: next year. But the last rates we had was sitting 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: just shy of seven percent for all populations, and unfortunately 28 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: our Mary and Pacific rates are much higher than that. 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: What are the rates for Mali and PACIFICA. 30 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: So last measure we had fourteen point seven percent for Mardi, 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: that's the highest, and our Pacific final are not far 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: behind us, sitting on just over twelve percent twelve point 33 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: three percent. 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: What do you think the reasoning is behind that? 35 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of reasons. We started off higher 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: to start, so, before we embarked on this journey of 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: trying to drive towards this twenty twenty five goal, that 38 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: Mary and Pacific rates were much higher. They were slower 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: to move in the beginning, although they have accelerated over 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: the last few years. But yeah, there's a whole lot 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: of historical reasons why Mary and Pacific rates have traditionally 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 1: been higher than the rest of the population. 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: Are we continuing to trend downwards or do you think 44 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: the statistics have really stagnated in recent years. 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: So the MARTI rates actually have been dropping quite a 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: bit over the last sort of five ten years, I guess, 47 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: but the general pop rates have there was little, well 48 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: basically no change. I think it might have gone up 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: a point one of a percent between the last two years. 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: So it is tricky to know until we get this 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: year's data, which will which will drop next year. 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: Recent figures I saw a show about three hundred thousand 53 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: daily smokers remain. What do you see is the biggest 54 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: challenges of getting those numbers down, especially by the end 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: of the year. 56 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: Look, it's yeah, by the end of the year is 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: really tricky. So that's a lot of people that have 58 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: to quit. Just for Mary alone, I think it's about 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: sixty two thousand that we need to see quit smoking 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: over the course of this year. Just to put that in perspective, 61 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: we're getting about ten to eleven thousand quit each year 62 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: based on recent trends, so it's huge. It's based off 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: that it's pretty obvious that we're not going to get there, 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: definitely not for all populations. We are still hopeful that 65 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: we'll get there for the general population, but definitely not 66 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: for Mariya and Pacific only something drastic changes over the 67 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: next couple of months, or something's happened that we're not 68 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: aware of over the past year, And. 69 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: What are some of the biggest challenges there for those 70 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: last remaining three hundred thousand. 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: I suppose yeah. I mean, it's an addictive product, so 72 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: I don't think we should skirt around that. Neicatines are 73 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: highly addictive. It's tricky to get off. A lot of 74 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: people have tried, a lot of people sort of try 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: and come back, to come back and try again. But 76 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: it really does get us hooks into you, I guess, 77 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: and it really is a tricky one to quite I 78 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: feel it was easy. Then the numbers wouldn't be this high, 79 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: tobacco industry wouldn't be this large, and we wouldn't have 80 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: five thousand New Zealanders dying from tobacco related illness every year. 81 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: Do you reckon? 82 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: I know that because excise tax has gone up over 83 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: the years, right, and it's now really really expensive to 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: buy a pack of smokes at the dairy. I used 85 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: to actually be a smoke in my early twenties, and 86 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: I remember when the packets went up from I think 87 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: it was like twenty bucks to twenty five bucks. And 88 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 2: that's you know, in my early twenties wasn't earning a 89 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: whole much bunch of money. So that's when I kind 90 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: of tape it off and thought, right, I need to 91 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: change what I'm doing because I just don't have the money. 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: So those people who still smoking today are spending about 93 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: fifty bucks a packet, say, that's obviously not stopping them. 94 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: The price isn't stopping them. Hey, so do you reckon 95 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: we've kind of reached the ceiling I suppose in excise taxes. 96 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, cigarets are very expensive. What we do have to do, though, 97 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: is make sure that we are increasing them in line 98 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: with everything else. Otherwise, relatively they become cheaper. So we 99 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: don't want them to become cheaper in relation to other 100 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: products because that could sort of drive demand the other way. 101 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: But certainly, I know in the early days we did 102 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: get some good gains through the rising of the prices 103 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: of cigarettes to drive a lot of people to try 104 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: and quit. But once again, it's such an addictive product 105 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: that it's not that easy. So, yes, that is costing 106 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: smokers a lot of money. They obviously would much rather 107 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: have the money in their back pocket. But because it's 108 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: such an addictive product, it's not that simple. 109 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: And there's also the situation of illicit tobacco coming through 110 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: that we've got to worry about now as well. 111 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: Ay, and it's hard to get engaged on exactly how 112 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: big that is. We've got one of the best customs 113 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: in the world here in New Zealand. Our borders are 114 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: pretty tight. So yeah, whenever you increase the price of 115 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: something and something, especially when it's addictive like this, then 116 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: you are going to see people try to bring it 117 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: through other means, to try and dose those excise taxes 118 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: and try and get them to people who require them 119 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: because they're are so addicted through other means. 120 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:31,239 Speaker 3: Well. 121 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: So we can probably agree that the smoke free twenty 122 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: twenty five goal is not going to be hit right. 123 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty five now, obviously, But when they envisioned 124 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 2: it in twenty ten, do you think it was overly 125 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: ambitious then, or if we made the right steps, could 126 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: we have actually achieved it by the end of this year. 127 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: It was ambitious, without a doubt, but it was ambitious 128 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: because it needed to be. It is the biggest killer 129 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: here in New Zealand. It's not something that you can 130 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: sort of lightfoot around and just hope it gets better. 131 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: You have to sort of go after it aggressively. And 132 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: it was so embedded within within our society, I guess 133 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: that we needed these big steps to try and get 134 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: rid of it and start reducing some of the harm 135 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: that our communities have experienced over the years from it. So, yes, 136 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: it was it was super optimistic, but there were some 137 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: steps in there that could have got us there. 138 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: And what are some of those steps? 139 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, probably the probably the big three are 140 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: the ones that were in the Curcal legislation that were proposed. 141 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: They were a little bit late to the table, but 142 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: they were three sort of I guess, just logical things 143 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: that would have made a huge difference. So, first of all, 144 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: making cigarettes less addictive. That obviously is going to make 145 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: if people try cigarettes and they're less likely to get 146 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: addicted to them, and if they want to try and 147 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: get rid of them, then it's going to make it 148 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: a bit easier for them to move on from cigarettes. 149 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: Can reducing the number of outlets. You can get cigarettes 150 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: everywhere here, Every single area has got them. Some streets 151 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: have got three dairies and all of them will have 152 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: cigarettes like that's totally unnecessary. If we look at the 153 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: saturation of tobacco outlets, particular and ow in some of 154 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: our poorer, our underserved communities, then there's even more there 155 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: than there are now more affluent suburbs, and the smoking 156 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: rates in those suburbs, which are mostly Malori and Pacific 157 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: suburbs by the way, are reflective of those So reducing 158 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: those numbers right down just to make them less available 159 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: and less prevalent in our communities would have made a 160 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: huge difference. And the third would have was the smoke 161 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: free generation measure, which would have stopped anyone born I 162 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: think it was jan one, two thousand and nine. They 163 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: never would have been able to buy cigarettes so progressively 164 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: increasing their age, and that would have made a huge difference. 165 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: It would have obviously cut off the flow of new 166 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: smokers coming in, so then we can just focus on 167 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: looking after those that currently smoked. And I would have 168 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: made particularly a huge difference for Mardi communities, which we 169 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: know Mali population is a lot younger than the general population, 170 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: so it would have it would have been a game change. 171 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: Of those three well, it. 172 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: Made international headlines when it was first announced. We were 173 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: seen as being world leading, but then it was scrapped 174 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: obviously last year. 175 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: Do you reckon that was a huge mistake? 176 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: Look, I think it was. There was some some people 177 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: flagged the difficulties around sort of putting some of these 178 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: things through, and I just think it would have been 179 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: with it once again, like it was, they were aspirational, 180 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: there were world leading policies. There wasn't evidence a lot 181 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: of evidence for them because we were literally the first 182 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: in the world, so we were trying something different, but 183 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: we were doing it for a good reason, because we 184 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: were trying to get rid of this incitious product from 185 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: from Altiora. So yeah, I honestly do think it was 186 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: a big mistake to get rid of those and I 187 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: think we should still look at those or some very 188 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: on those three areas that we need to do if 189 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: we're going to shift this. 190 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 4: The idea that more young New Zealanders should take up 191 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 4: smoking in order to pay for tax cuts is morally reprehensible. 192 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 4: I don't think New Zealanders thought that's what they were 193 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 4: going to get. I don't think that's the change they 194 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 4: were voting for when they voted at the last election. 195 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 4: Mister Speaker, National's decision to wind back the smoke free 196 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 4: alter or agenda as a disgrace to New Zealand as 197 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 4: a country. It is an international embarrassment and it is 198 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 4: making headlines around the world for all the wrong reasons. 199 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: How do you feel about vaping? 200 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, vaping is a tricky one. Obviously, Dylan Ever wanted 201 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: it to have sort of the grip on some of 202 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: our kids that it does now. It was never intended 203 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: to be for children. It was never intended to be 204 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: for non smokers to use. It was always intended to 205 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: be an option to help people shift from tobacco, and 206 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: in the beginning, well even even still now, it has 207 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: worked for a lot of our long term smokers that 208 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: have tried other methods and it and just haven't been 209 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: able to break away. So I think it does have 210 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: a place, But we didn't roll it out how we 211 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: should have. We weren't careful, we didn't look after. I 212 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: don't say that it was too accessible. Even now you 213 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: can see how many of these vape stores are around. 214 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous and once again saturated in those same neighborhoods 215 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: that I was speaking about earlier with the tobacco outlets. 216 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: It just seems to be everywhere. And if you speak 217 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: to any sort of intermediate high school principal, if you 218 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: ask them what the top issue affecting them is, it's faithing. 219 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: That's crazy. 220 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's seen as I suppose, trendy to 221 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: young people. Obviously they've never tried a cigarette in their lives, 222 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: but then they pick up a vape. Do you ever 223 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: wonder because when I was thinking about this and when 224 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 2: I was younger, smoking was quote unquote cool, right, And 225 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: that's probably why I started when I was so young. 226 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 3: In terms of trends are cyclical. 227 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: Do you ever think that smoking there's a chance of 228 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: smoking to become cool again once all the vaping has 229 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: worn off? 230 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 3: And is that a real worry? 231 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think it's always a worry. We don't know 232 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: how trends are going to go. I mean, but even 233 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to tobacco, like making it a truly 234 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: it didn't just happen. It was very purposeful, was very 235 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: intentional by the tobacco industry. They were putting cigarettes into 236 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: music videos, onto MTV like all these different places, and 237 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: like it wasn't it doesn't. It didn't just happen. So 238 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: that's why we need to make sure that we're very 239 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: purposeful with any measures that you put in place, because 240 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: stuff doesn't just happen, but we do have to make 241 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: sure that those protections are there. 242 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: In terms of vaping, I know that the advertising is 243 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: watered down quite a bit now, but is there anything 244 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: further that we can do to try and stop youth 245 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: from picking up a vape or maybe banning specific flavors altogether, 246 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: or something like that, making them all black and boring 247 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: and you know, tobacco flavored or something. 248 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot of measures that we 249 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: could still employ, and a lot of them are similar 250 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: to the approach that we took with tobacco. So we 251 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: can make the packets least appealing, we can make the flavors, well, 252 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: that's not a tobacco on, but we can make the 253 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: flavors less appealing to children, even the name all those 254 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: sorts of things. Once again, the amount of outlets there are, 255 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: it's crazy, silly little things, like it's almost like that's 256 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: circum meanting the rules, but they're not. It's sort of 257 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: like the store within a store at a dairy where 258 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: they sort of have two doors, but it's the same 259 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: store or the same person and there's like a piece 260 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: of timber up there that separates the two, and then 261 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: they're allowed to be a vape store. Like that just 262 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't think 263 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: it's in the spirit of the law. So we need 264 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: to sort of tidy up all those little things. The 265 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: placement of ape stores. We've got them still close to schools, 266 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: Like we brought in some rules around the placement of them, 267 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: but it didn't apply to any of the ones which 268 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: are already close to schools, And there was even a 269 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: delay from the announcement until then it was rolled out, 270 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: and a whole lot more of vape stores popped up 271 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: within those zones that we know we don't want vape 272 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: stores in the meantime, So there's lots of lots of 273 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: things we could and we should be doing to make 274 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: sure that we don't end up with another problem. Well, 275 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: I think the problems already here, to be honest, but 276 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: we need to trying to actively work against those things. 277 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 3: So, Jason, where do we go to from now? 278 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: Do we kind of need to smoke free twenty thirty 279 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: five or something. 280 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: That's a very good question, I guess. For so long 281 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: we've always been focused on the Smoke Free twenty twenty 282 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: five gold, but it's not it's not a thing that 283 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: we miss and then we stop. I think we sort 284 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: of we really do need to double down on our 285 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: efforts now because people are still dying from this product. 286 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: We need to get it out of out of New Zealand. 287 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: It's sort of sort of serves no purpose. It's almost 288 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: like a wasp if you're like, it's sort of it's 289 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: there's no redeeming qualities to it. I think the only 290 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: thing you ever hear is someone saying that it helps 291 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: me relax, but that's usually from smokers, and it's because 292 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: they're addicted. So it's sort of curbing that that nagging 293 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: sound in the back of the head that telling them 294 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: that they need nicotine. 295 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: Were you ever a smoker? 296 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: No, I couldn't afford it when I was a kid, 297 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: to be honest, probably wasn't cool enough either. Tried it 298 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: a couple of times, tasted like rubbish, so I never 299 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: sort of pursued it. 300 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: It does, man, it's awful, and after I think because 301 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: I stopped smoking because I picked up the vapes, so 302 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: I am actually a converted smoker. And you know, and 303 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: then you tape it down from over time. But I 304 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: remember thinking, once you're over that that push, you go out. 305 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 3: And you're like, oh my god, did I smell like 306 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: that all the time. 307 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: I remember like dowsing myself with perfume after going for 308 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: a smoko and you think. 309 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: Wow, like you are. 310 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: Really it's an addiction, and when once you're in that 311 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: bubble and you can only see it when you're out 312 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: of it exactly. 313 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: Oh, thanks so much for joining us. 314 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: No problem, Thank you for your time today. 315 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 316 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 317 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: at NZHERLD, dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is 318 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who's also our editor. 319 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 320 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 321 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: get your podcasts and chew you in it tomorrow for 322 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: another look behind the headlines.