1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: On the huddle with me. This evening got Jordan Williams 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Taxpayers Union and Gareth Hughes, who is the director of 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: the Well Being Economy Alliance and of course a former 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Green MP. Hello you two, Gareth A you worried about 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: like seriously? Right, seriously? Are you worried about the scrapping 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: of the clean car standards? 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: Oh? 8 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 3: I am? I mean why on earth would we want 9 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 3: to be alongside Russias two of the only country. 10 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: But we're not actually going to do We're not really 11 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: going to do it though, are we. 12 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 3: Well, it would be ridiculous not to. I mean it 13 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 3: would fail basic economic common sense and ultimately lead consumers 14 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 3: to pay more. So I don't know why on if 15 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: you're wasting time you know, consulting on this particular question. 16 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: Jordan, go oh come on mate. You know how the 17 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: ETS works, don't you. Doesn't actually lead to any that 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: this screen car doescat well. Clean car regulations don't actually 19 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: reduce the number of emissions. And if you're seriously think 20 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: the government saying you have to import cars of ex 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: standard doesn't make it more expensive for consumers. I meant 22 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: you know that's not since on stilts the whole thing 23 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: that annoys me with this is it's this illusion of action, 24 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: and to compare us with Russia is just come on, 25 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 2: you're better than that. New Zealand has a comprehensive emissions 26 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: trading system that is a cap and trade. For every 27 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: extra emission that you have on the road, it has 28 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: to come from somewhere else. So if you pay more 29 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: to reduce transport emissions, it simply frees up carbon credits 30 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: or makes them cheaper for emissions elsewhere. It's a total 31 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: false economy. It really grates me these lobbyists that get 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: in the media and say, oh, you know, this is 33 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: bad for the environ It's going to mean that more 34 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: emissions and things like that. It is simply not true. 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: And actually you've got to call it out because this 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: is actually why New Zealand is poor. We have these 37 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: regulations that make it more costly to live for consumers 38 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: and it actually does nothing for the environment. 39 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Garas, can you respond. 40 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: To that, Yeah, this is kind of the logic that 41 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: we should invest billions and charge electricity consumers to build 42 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 3: now in g terminal high upfront costs, high ongoing costs 43 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: as you import these expensive and increasingly expensive fossil fuels, 44 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: where we've got cheap soul of power that we could 45 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 3: be using. This is the same false equivalency that Jordan's using. 46 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: You know, if we have more efficient vehicles, they're going 47 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: to be cheaper for consumers to use. We've got one 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 3: of the oldest, most least efficient vehicle fleets. And it's 49 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: not me comparing it to Russia. This is the Motor 50 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: Industry Association pointing out that almost every other advanced economy 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 3: in the OECD except US in Russia would be doing this. 52 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Children. 53 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: It's not a smart step at all. 54 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: That Russia thing is a fact, and that is why 55 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: this government will not get rid of it all together, 56 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: right because it would it would be the climate lovies 57 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: will absolutely hammer. 58 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: Them for it. We are unable to we are unable 59 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: to import age Japanese cars and as a result, we 60 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: have even older cars left on the road. Because it's 61 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: all very well for the three of us having this conversation, 62 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: but for if you're in his islander on the minimum 63 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: or even average way and you're struggling to fill your 64 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: tank as it is, you want an affordable car. The 65 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: fact is politicians coming in saying we need rolls Royce 66 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: standards and we know best and that over the lifetime 67 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 2: of the car or what are according to our modeling. 68 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: Don't worry at Sunshine, it's going to be cheaper. Is 69 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: not the consumer choice that tends to lead to lower prices. 70 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: Jordan, while I've got you, have you guys got a 71 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: taxpayers union poll coming out tomorrow? 72 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: Yes, we do have a poll tomorrow, heater. I think 73 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: it's to be one that's likely to attract a little 74 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: bit of attention. 75 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: I've heard it's bad for national is it? 76 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: I couldn't be possibly comment. As a habit, we give 77 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: the heads up to the various politicians and parties and 78 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: party leaders as a courtesy before poll has made public. 79 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: But I based on the journalists calling me today, I 80 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: suspect there'll be a few eyes on end boxes in 81 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: the morning. 82 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: Okay, give me get one to five out of out 83 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: of five. How bad is it for the nets? 84 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: Heither it's been It's been a tough few weeks for that. 85 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: There's no se it has been a tough few weeks 86 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 2: for the government. This pole may or may not reflect that. 87 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we'll take a break, come back to 88 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: you guys shortly. You're back with the huddle Gareth Hughes 89 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: and Jordan Williams. Gareth, you still using trade me? 90 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: No, I can't remember the last time I used it, 91 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 3: but I do have my kids swing, which they've outgrown, 92 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: which you know, I see the changes with the success see, 93 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: so yeah, I mostly use the Facebook marketplace. Maybe I'll 94 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 3: use trade me. 95 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: No, I hang on, let's work this out for you. 96 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: How much do you reckn you get for that swing? Oh? 97 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to give it a spray paint. So I 98 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: reckon a couple of hundred bucks. 99 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: You've been on k March see if they can what 100 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: they're charging for a swing? 101 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's quite ridiculous. This is a beautiful 102 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: old metal and what one so? 103 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: Okay? Quite much? 104 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: A couple of hundred You might actually I reckon a 105 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 1: couple of hundred bucks. I might make the effort. Jordan, 106 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: what about you? 107 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: I love Garrett now us being so might swing can 108 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: call up now to make my reading of this. Emily's 109 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: the trader in our household. She's much fier at this 110 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: sort of thing. But I think it's all Facebook marketplace now, 111 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: which I mean there's there's obviously some dodgy stuff on there, 112 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 2: but I don't think it has any fees or any 113 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: success fees, and I suspect this is simply trade me 114 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: having to adjust their pitch to reflect the huge volume 115 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 2: of people that are now use news Facebook. 116 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: What are you people selling on Facebook marketplace? 117 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: Jordan? Oh, my kids are always impeccably dressed, and them 118 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: seems to be able to sell the kid's clothes more 119 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: than she paid for them. She spots them, she spots 120 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: a bargain. I'm very, very lucky. Oh, that's good. 121 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: I see both. You're both economically minded, so that's good. Gareth, 122 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: I have come to the conclusion I've reached. I didn't 123 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: want to reach this point, but I've reached the point 124 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: where I think that rural families will have to pay 125 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: for their own school buses if there are not enough 126 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: family in the area to justify a school bus. 127 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: What do you think, well, I think we're particularly talking 128 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: about the case in the region. I'm from Tartarfidy Gisborne, 129 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: and you know this is I think outrageous. They've been 130 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 3: given seven weeks notice they might end up having to 131 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: travel two hours round trip because the school bus service 132 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: is being dropped without consultation. You know, it's just a 133 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 3: bureaucrat lead process. So look, we need to have a 134 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 3: national conversation about this, so we can't just. 135 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: Spring it on rural seven weeks not enough, Gareth, No, when. 136 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 3: You're you know, the school years only just started. I 137 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 3: mean these are people who are working hard on farms 138 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 3: and in rural communities. This is going to you know, 139 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: two hours extra out of their day is going to 140 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 3: have a huge impact on their lives. 141 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 142 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: Well, I with the ruthless efficiency of a working mother, Jordan, 143 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: I was like, don't worry, I can sort out a 144 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: bus in seven weeks for everyone. Am I being unrealistic? 145 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to go with socialists and squitchy here 146 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: and and agree with Gareth. I mean part of part 147 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: of New Zealand in many ways is cross subsidizing rural communities. 148 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: Obviously roads, school buses is another one. I think it's 149 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: a I think it is pretty and actually it's a 150 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: false economy. If kids can't go to the local rural 151 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: skill or the not so local rural skills it's a 152 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: couple of hours away. It will mean more kids have 153 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: to board in town. It is more expensive. 154 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: Fair point that you make, Jordan talk to me about 155 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: this Kumita patch thing. How did we spend one hundred 156 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: and sixty thousand dollars on a Comita patch. 157 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: Well, I've only seen the information from Jordan's newsletter as 158 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: he's come out, so I'd love to wait to see 159 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: all the information and how this National Science Challenge the 160 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: results are being found. But you know, from what I 161 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: can see, this is not so much about growing a 162 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 3: patch of coumitter. It's around the process and the history 163 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: and the culture, which I think is an important subject 164 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: for New Zealand to be looking into. This is ultimately 165 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: our history, and to be honest, I'm a little bit 166 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 3: disappointed about this because you know, I think we should 167 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 3: be celebrating Maori science matsadanga and actually there's much bigger 168 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: fish to fry. We've got half the OECD average spend 169 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 3: as part of our economy percentage than the rest of 170 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: the OECD. Fonterra has a let a skill spend of 171 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: R and D. Being such a major exporter and player 172 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: in our economy, we should be focusing on actually increasing 173 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: our investment in science. Will stop, not trying to attack 174 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: these very small amounts of legitimate science. 175 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: Come on, Garrett, but that the problem is we're not 176 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: putting enough money into science and you're seriously because look 177 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 2: the reason why it's going different. You can make the 178 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: argument that's spending one hundred and fifty six thousand dollars 179 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: on a three meter by three meter coumbra patch and 180 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 2: studying about that the role of Wahimi Maori woman is 181 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: to team the garden. We should be studying and promoting. 182 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: You can argue that that's all good value. I wouldn't, 183 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: but you can. But you were using money. There is 184 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: reserved supposed to be reserved for the krem de la creme, 185 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand's best scientific minds to solve the science in 186 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: the national Science challenges. And the reason this story came 187 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: about is because and it's taken nearly a year to 188 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 2: get this out of the public agencies, is because of 189 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 2: when we discovered that we were paying millions to record whales, sound, 190 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 2: remix them, play them to forests on the basis of 191 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: the myths, the myths that the cali is the brother 192 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: of the sperm whale. And you can say, oh, well, 193 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: I mean maybe we should be doing that as part 194 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 2: of some cultural exercise, but this is money for science. 195 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: I do not understand with the strength face how you 196 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: can say the problem is in the OECD we're not 197 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: spending enough on research development, and yet in the same 198 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: breath you can justfend search and development money being used 199 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: for that. I'm sorry. There is a role for maldi 200 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: knowledge that is not being what it's been used for, 201 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: which is literally replaced so called colonial science. That's what 202 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: the text Paers Union is pointing out and believing we've 203 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: got more. Unfortunately we've got This is just one of 204 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: a series of stories of this sort of thing. 205 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: We'll be keeping our eyes open for those. Jordan, thanks 206 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: very much, and Gareth Hughes as well. Jordan Williams, Gareth hugh' 207 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: our hudle this evening. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 208 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 209 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.