1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,639
Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editors, with us. Hey, Thomas,

2
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: good afternoon. So is labor going to allow? What is

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 1: Labour's position on farmers in the et? So have they

4
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: made up their mind here?

5
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,280
Speaker 2: Oh, this has been going on since two thousand and eight.

6
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,119
Speaker 2: Labor labors wanted some form of the missions pricing for

7
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: farmers the last government. They went into government saying, look,

8
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 2: agriculture is going to go into their easy yes in

9
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 2: some way. They eventually swerved into the hawaka you canoa

10
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 2: if you can remember that, and that eventually resulted in

11
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 2: some form of emissions pricing for agricultural emissions, a split

12
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 2: guest approach or into the eaty yes. If that all

13
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 2: fell apart, and then obviously the Coalition came into power

14
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 2: and got rid of that. So Chris Epkins went on

15
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 2: The Herald Now showed this morning and said that all

16
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,519
Speaker 2: of ex policy is under review, all of them, all

17
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: of Labor's policy is under review, and that means that

18
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 2: there will be an a missions policy from Labor, but

19
00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 2: just what it is wait and see. So no one

20
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 2: really knows that the wish.

21
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm reluctant to get excited about this because these guys

22
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: in labor you know how they are. They float ideas

23
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: like this, and then they have a giant fight with

24
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 1: each other because everybody has to be consulted in caucus,

25
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: and the policy unit has to be consulted in the

26
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: unions have to be consulted, and the membership has to

27
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 1: be consulted. And then by the end of it, you know,

28
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,120
Speaker 1: nothing really changed.

29
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean what did Margaret Thatcher say the problem

30
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 2: about socialism was too many meetings?

31
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 1: Yes?

32
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,319
Speaker 2: And labor labor does you know, to be and not

33
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 2: high love a good meeting, but labor labor does. It's

34
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,080
Speaker 2: fair to say love a good meeting. It's hard to

35
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 2: know this. The current the Chris Hipkins Labor Party is,

36
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 2: it is hard to know where it lands on a

37
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 2: lot of these issues. The Greens and Party Maori are

38
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,960
Speaker 2: very keen for I mean, a large part of the

39
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 2: greens one hundred billion dollar revenue change was money coming

40
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 2: in from climate change etes stuff. So the Greens are

41
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 2: pretty into into, you know, full on emissions pricing. Labor is.

42
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 2: It's very hard to know where al end up. But

43
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 2: I would imagine if they end up with a policy

44
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 2: that's too so. And Jacinda Jones policy on cultural emissions.

45
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 2: It was quite soft that was there were the agricultural

46
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 2: emission would have been heavily discounted. If labor goes in

47
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 2: too soft, they're going to face a member's revolves. So

48
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,799
Speaker 2: I think you're right here there. I think it will

49
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 2: be wherever they land, it will it will be something

50
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:18,800
Speaker 2: that involves pricing.

51
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, does he does?

52
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:20,119
Speaker 2: He?

53
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: Is he just just floating this as an idea before

54
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 1: field day so that the farmers don't give him too

55
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:25,959
Speaker 1: hard a time as he walks through.

56
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,239
Speaker 2: Yes, I think he was asked about it obviously this

57
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 2: field days, which is why he was asked about it.

58
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 2: And then I imagine Chrispkinsaw's life flashing before his eyes

59
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 2: and thought, there's no way I'm going to talk about

60
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,799
Speaker 2: emissions pricing before hitting the mystery three. And you know what,

61
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 2: probably probably that's that's the political radar that you hear.

62
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 1: I mean talking about Daniel and the Lions. Dan, I

63
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 1: absolutely would say something is dumb as this as well

64
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,840
Speaker 1: as him as well. Listen, if you managed to get

65
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 1: a hold of any of these climate lawyers suing the government.

66
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just actually got off the blow from from

67
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 2: from lawyers for climate action. A really interesting case. And

68
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, talking about consultation actually, because you do need

69
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,519
Speaker 2: to consult on a lot of this, a lot of

70
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 2: this submissions stuff. And they are arguing that the government's

71
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,959
Speaker 2: changes to the first emissions Plan, so that was the

72
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,640
Speaker 2: Labour put up the first emissions reduction plan. This government

73
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 2: they amended it significantly. They're arguing that the process wasn't

74
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: followed properly and they want sort of declaration to that

75
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 2: effect from the court. That's that's sort of interesting, you know,

76
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 2: going forward, how how governments changed their missions plans. The

77
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 2: big thing though, the big thing is the second plan,

78
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,679
Speaker 2: so that that's the one that the coalition government has published.

79
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,200
Speaker 2: They are arguing that this second plan does not meet

80
00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 2: the goals of the Act, which is to reduce emissions

81
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 2: and reduce and warming to one point five degrees you

82
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: know whatever, you know, you know that, you know the drill.

83
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 2: They are arguing that the plan doesn't do that. It

84
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 2: relies a lot on unproven technology carbon capture, the light,

85
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 2: too much tree planting, and they want the court to

86
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 2: say so, which would force the government to do it again.

87
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 1: Yes, because Thomas, they're not idiot and they can see,

88
00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 1: like all of us. What's about to happen, which is

89
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: we're not going to meet the target. We're going to

90
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: rely on tree planting, and then we're not going to

91
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: plant the trees either, so we're actually going to end

92
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,920
Speaker 1: up doing Diddley squat. That's what's going on with.

93
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if the court says, if the court agrees

94
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 2: with that assessment says not the second plan is not

95
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: good enough, then then Simon Watson, the government is going

96
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 2: to have to go back to the drawing board and

97
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,279
Speaker 2: do it again, and that could be quite the cabinet fight.

98
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 1: Interesting very much. Now did you say it was Lawyers

99
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 1: for Climate Action?

100
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 2: Thomas, Yes, I believe that's the group, your lawyers for

101
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 2: Climate Action.

102
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,479
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, Thomas appreciated. Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editors.

103
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: You call them, Laura, Lawyers for Climate Action? Is oh

104
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 1: the ore the ones who are going to come on

105
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 1: the are the ones who were going to come on

106
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 1: and then they got busy, did they? Okay, we're not

107
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 1: going to hear from this, So happy to talk to Thomas,

108
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 1: not happy to talk to us.

109
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,120
Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplicy, Alan Drive, Listen Live to

110
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 2: News Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, Or follow

111
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio