1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Teams podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,693 Speaker 1: from News Talks That Be. 3 00:00:12,733 --> 00:00:14,493 Speaker 2: Now though, it is time to catch up with Google. 4 00:00:14,573 --> 00:00:17,333 Speaker 2: Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being killed a Google. 5 00:00:18,293 --> 00:00:20,693 Speaker 3: Curer, Jack from A very chilly. 6 00:00:22,093 --> 00:00:22,413 Speaker 1: Ah. 7 00:00:22,493 --> 00:00:25,133 Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's very chilly alter at all this morning, 8 00:00:25,613 --> 00:00:26,773 Speaker 2: very chilly everywhere dinner? 9 00:00:26,813 --> 00:00:27,013 Speaker 4: Have you? 10 00:00:27,093 --> 00:00:29,213 Speaker 5: Have you dared to look at the thermometer at your place? 11 00:00:29,253 --> 00:00:29,653 Speaker 5: How is it? 12 00:00:29,853 --> 00:00:30,053 Speaker 3: Oh? 13 00:00:30,133 --> 00:00:31,853 Speaker 4: I had to pat the dog for the bit about 14 00:00:31,893 --> 00:00:33,693 Speaker 4: an hour ago and the calf a momenta said it 15 00:00:33,733 --> 00:00:35,133 Speaker 4: was six degrees outside. 16 00:00:35,213 --> 00:00:39,453 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's positively tropical compared to some parts of 17 00:00:39,493 --> 00:00:40,173 Speaker 2: the South Island. 18 00:00:40,213 --> 00:00:41,493 Speaker 5: So we can't do too much money. 19 00:00:41,493 --> 00:00:43,053 Speaker 3: That's true. That is true. 20 00:00:43,293 --> 00:00:45,613 Speaker 2: Anyway, you and I are this morning as two men 21 00:00:45,733 --> 00:00:48,213 Speaker 2: tackling a subject that is getting a little more attention 22 00:00:48,373 --> 00:00:51,773 Speaker 2: these days. Finally, but you and I are two men 23 00:00:51,813 --> 00:00:52,653 Speaker 2: talking menopause. 24 00:00:53,813 --> 00:00:56,333 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's and look I have a note here 25 00:00:57,213 --> 00:01:00,373 Speaker 4: in front of me from my lovely wife, yep. 26 00:01:00,213 --> 00:01:02,133 Speaker 3: Is don't men explain this? 27 00:01:02,693 --> 00:01:03,013 Speaker 5: Okay? 28 00:01:03,213 --> 00:01:06,733 Speaker 4: And so I'm under strict instructions not to try and 29 00:01:06,933 --> 00:01:08,173 Speaker 4: explain menopause. 30 00:01:08,253 --> 00:01:10,053 Speaker 5: Is that another reason to carry around with you all 31 00:01:10,093 --> 00:01:12,933 Speaker 5: the time? Or is that just ane today subject. 32 00:01:13,533 --> 00:01:16,013 Speaker 3: It's tattooed on the inside of my brain. I will 33 00:01:16,053 --> 00:01:17,493 Speaker 3: not forget it very well. 34 00:01:18,693 --> 00:01:20,733 Speaker 4: I warn you as well, because she will hunt you 35 00:01:20,773 --> 00:01:22,613 Speaker 4: down and find you if you try to. 36 00:01:22,693 --> 00:01:25,133 Speaker 5: Manila wanting perfectly accepted. 37 00:01:26,253 --> 00:01:29,293 Speaker 4: But look, I wanted to raise it from a workplace 38 00:01:29,333 --> 00:01:33,613 Speaker 4: perspective because you know, I think there's a lot it's 39 00:01:33,693 --> 00:01:35,893 Speaker 4: been a big issue and my sort of travels around 40 00:01:35,893 --> 00:01:39,133 Speaker 4: different workplaces around New Zealand over the last twelve months 41 00:01:39,253 --> 00:01:42,693 Speaker 4: or so and is coming up increasingly and rightly, so 42 00:01:43,333 --> 00:01:45,693 Speaker 4: that this is an issue, that this is a health 43 00:01:45,693 --> 00:01:49,173 Speaker 4: issue that affects a good proportion of our workforce, and 44 00:01:49,293 --> 00:01:53,413 Speaker 4: actually we need as a society to be better at 45 00:01:53,493 --> 00:01:58,293 Speaker 4: understanding this significant health issue that affects a lot of people. 46 00:01:58,053 --> 00:02:00,093 Speaker 3: Because it as quite debilitating. 47 00:02:00,413 --> 00:02:03,933 Speaker 4: Look, I was reading if you take away the take 48 00:02:03,973 --> 00:02:07,333 Speaker 4: away the word menopause and just focused on the symptom anxiety, 49 00:02:07,573 --> 00:02:12,093 Speaker 4: low mood, depression, hot flushes, brain fog, nausea, fatigue. Those 50 00:02:12,133 --> 00:02:15,293 Speaker 4: are pretty severe kind of symptoms. They reminded me actually 51 00:02:15,293 --> 00:02:17,213 Speaker 4: a bit of COVID symptoms. You know that a lot 52 00:02:17,213 --> 00:02:19,533 Speaker 4: of those are what we covid and we know how 53 00:02:19,853 --> 00:02:22,413 Speaker 4: debilitating that was and so I think if you just 54 00:02:22,493 --> 00:02:25,653 Speaker 4: think about it from that pure health perspective of hey, 55 00:02:25,893 --> 00:02:29,573 Speaker 4: a significant proportion of your workforce may be experiencing these 56 00:02:29,933 --> 00:02:33,413 Speaker 4: these symptoms, then this is something that workplaces should, I think, 57 00:02:33,453 --> 00:02:36,093 Speaker 4: should really be thinking about how they address these and 58 00:02:36,133 --> 00:02:40,333 Speaker 4: how they can make some accommodations for people who experienced 59 00:02:40,413 --> 00:02:41,653 Speaker 4: those symptoms in their work. 60 00:02:41,813 --> 00:02:44,693 Speaker 2: And there was a report by the New Zealand Institute 61 00:02:44,733 --> 00:02:47,773 Speaker 2: of Economic Research d IER a couple of years ago 62 00:02:47,813 --> 00:02:51,613 Speaker 2: which showed actually, not not only do many women kind 63 00:02:51,613 --> 00:02:55,653 Speaker 2: of never discuss menopause or perimenopause in the workplace, but 64 00:02:55,773 --> 00:02:59,613 Speaker 2: actually like only one in three managers kind of felt 65 00:02:59,733 --> 00:03:01,573 Speaker 2: knowledgeable to be able to support people. 66 00:03:02,653 --> 00:03:04,973 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, one in three, and that reduced to one 67 00:03:05,053 --> 00:03:10,053 Speaker 4: in five when it was all managers. And look, it's 68 00:03:10,053 --> 00:03:12,973 Speaker 4: not you know, I'm not in any way trying to 69 00:03:13,773 --> 00:03:15,973 Speaker 4: make a defense for this. It's not surprising though, given 70 00:03:15,973 --> 00:03:17,973 Speaker 4: that we're how we haven't talked about it, that people 71 00:03:18,053 --> 00:03:20,773 Speaker 4: don't feel that confident. And I know that, you know, 72 00:03:20,813 --> 00:03:23,973 Speaker 4: in my role as in past of managing people, I 73 00:03:24,013 --> 00:03:28,973 Speaker 4: would definitely have been managing people who have been experiencing menopause. 74 00:03:29,693 --> 00:03:32,493 Speaker 3: And that we also know that that same that same. 75 00:03:32,333 --> 00:03:36,533 Speaker 4: Report showed that women, some women were cutting back their 76 00:03:36,573 --> 00:03:39,493 Speaker 4: work hours or even quitting their work simply because they 77 00:03:39,533 --> 00:03:43,253 Speaker 4: couldn't get those health needs met in their workplace. 78 00:03:43,333 --> 00:03:45,053 Speaker 3: And that's that's a pretty for me. 79 00:03:45,133 --> 00:03:47,413 Speaker 4: That was a kind of a really sobering kind of 80 00:03:47,453 --> 00:03:50,693 Speaker 4: statistic around actually that that shouldn't be happening. We should 81 00:03:50,733 --> 00:03:55,053 Speaker 4: be recognizing this health issue in our workplaces and doing 82 00:03:55,093 --> 00:03:57,893 Speaker 4: what we can to support people who are experiencing those. 83 00:03:57,893 --> 00:04:01,093 Speaker 2: Yeah, because if it were anything else that we would, right, 84 00:04:01,253 --> 00:04:05,773 Speaker 2: like if it were COVID for example, obviously obviously would. 85 00:04:06,493 --> 00:04:06,653 Speaker 3: Yeah. 86 00:04:06,693 --> 00:04:08,133 Speaker 2: So it's kind of curious that because you know, I 87 00:04:08,133 --> 00:04:11,173 Speaker 2: suppose because there hasn't maybe been the awareness that there 88 00:04:11,213 --> 00:04:14,813 Speaker 2: should be around menopause, we haven't necessarily kind of you know, 89 00:04:15,413 --> 00:04:18,253 Speaker 2: altered our workplaces and work cultures to. 90 00:04:18,253 --> 00:04:20,173 Speaker 3: Allow for Yeah. 91 00:04:20,253 --> 00:04:22,933 Speaker 4: Yeah, I look, I'm sure we could have a long 92 00:04:23,053 --> 00:04:26,533 Speaker 4: discussion around the sort of gender bias and workplaces and 93 00:04:26,573 --> 00:04:29,533 Speaker 4: if it's happened to men. But you know, I think 94 00:04:29,573 --> 00:04:32,133 Speaker 4: and also maybe part of it too, is that because 95 00:04:32,173 --> 00:04:37,173 Speaker 4: it's considered a normal natural part of development of human 96 00:04:37,213 --> 00:04:40,253 Speaker 4: development and getting older, maybe we just don't kind of 97 00:04:40,293 --> 00:04:42,853 Speaker 4: consider it. But you know, I know that I've got 98 00:04:42,853 --> 00:04:46,853 Speaker 4: my employer supports me to get a vaccine for the 99 00:04:46,893 --> 00:04:49,253 Speaker 4: flu every year, you know, go and get a free vaccine, 100 00:04:49,293 --> 00:04:51,373 Speaker 4: and because we want to make sure that you don't 101 00:04:51,453 --> 00:04:54,293 Speaker 4: suffer from these because we know that if people get 102 00:04:54,293 --> 00:04:56,773 Speaker 4: the flu, which are very similar symptoms to it I 103 00:04:56,853 --> 00:04:59,053 Speaker 4: just described earlier, then that can put you off work 104 00:04:59,093 --> 00:05:00,413 Speaker 4: for a week or two. And we don't want you 105 00:05:00,453 --> 00:05:02,493 Speaker 4: to be off work for a week or two. But 106 00:05:02,573 --> 00:05:04,813 Speaker 4: we need to take that same approach I think to 107 00:05:04,853 --> 00:05:08,053 Speaker 4: discussing menopause isn't to too yeah. 108 00:05:07,973 --> 00:05:10,493 Speaker 3: Just making it, just making it okay to talk about it. 109 00:05:10,493 --> 00:05:12,693 Speaker 4: And I think there's a real big piece for leaders, 110 00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:17,813 Speaker 4: managers and organizations in general to be openly discussing this 111 00:05:18,373 --> 00:05:21,933 Speaker 4: issue more and upskilling leaders so that they'd at least 112 00:05:21,973 --> 00:05:24,173 Speaker 4: know what the heck they're talking about, and to have 113 00:05:24,253 --> 00:05:27,133 Speaker 4: some good policies in place so that so that people 114 00:05:27,173 --> 00:05:31,733 Speaker 4: who are experiencing menopause don't have to come and go, oh, geez, sorry, 115 00:05:31,773 --> 00:05:34,413 Speaker 4: I've got this thing going on. It's all a bit uncomfortable. 116 00:05:34,653 --> 00:05:37,053 Speaker 4: There should just be the ability to talk freely about it, 117 00:05:37,093 --> 00:05:38,933 Speaker 4: so that women can just come and say, hey, look 118 00:05:39,093 --> 00:05:42,373 Speaker 4: I need to you know, if I could move desks maybe, 119 00:05:42,653 --> 00:05:45,893 Speaker 4: or just make some allowances or just so that you 120 00:05:46,013 --> 00:05:48,613 Speaker 4: know that sometimes I might be a bit brain foggy 121 00:05:48,653 --> 00:05:51,053 Speaker 4: and that that's okay, but can you cut me some 122 00:05:51,093 --> 00:05:52,053 Speaker 4: slack on those days? 123 00:05:52,133 --> 00:05:54,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Actually, just having some kind of thoughtful policies 124 00:05:54,573 --> 00:05:58,613 Speaker 2: around that I can imagine would like really help with 125 00:05:58,733 --> 00:06:01,653 Speaker 2: retention and attracting good staff, right. 126 00:06:02,253 --> 00:06:05,213 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you think about that, you know 127 00:06:05,293 --> 00:06:07,933 Speaker 4: that the age of men I was, you know, late thirties, 128 00:06:07,933 --> 00:06:08,693 Speaker 4: perhaps through the. 129 00:06:08,893 --> 00:06:10,213 Speaker 3: Late forties, early fifties. 130 00:06:10,293 --> 00:06:12,973 Speaker 4: That's those are women who are in the kind of 131 00:06:12,973 --> 00:06:15,213 Speaker 4: coming to the peak of their career. In many ways, 132 00:06:15,253 --> 00:06:16,853 Speaker 4: these are people that you want to. 133 00:06:16,893 --> 00:06:18,933 Speaker 3: Retain and attract. 134 00:06:19,893 --> 00:06:23,213 Speaker 4: And you know the statistic before from the twenty twenty 135 00:06:23,213 --> 00:06:24,053 Speaker 4: three research. 136 00:06:23,733 --> 00:06:26,533 Speaker 3: People were leaving their jobs because it wasn't recognized in 137 00:06:26,573 --> 00:06:29,533 Speaker 3: the world. So yeah, this is a great way to keep. 138 00:06:29,373 --> 00:06:32,293 Speaker 4: Hold of people, to keep hold of great talent and. 139 00:06:32,213 --> 00:06:34,693 Speaker 3: To it, I think, to attract talent too. If your 140 00:06:34,773 --> 00:06:39,853 Speaker 3: workplace is seen as you know, aware of and. 141 00:06:39,773 --> 00:06:43,373 Speaker 4: Then quotes friendly towards metaphors, then you're possibly likely to 142 00:06:43,413 --> 00:06:47,733 Speaker 4: actually become a favored employer and get that really good 143 00:06:47,773 --> 00:06:50,173 Speaker 4: talent rather than letting it go to waste. 144 00:06:50,013 --> 00:06:52,453 Speaker 5: Love your work Doogle. As always, Thank you so much. Google. 145 00:06:52,493 --> 00:06:54,933 Speaker 5: Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being with us this morning. 146 00:06:55,533 --> 00:06:58,613 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 147 00:06:58,733 --> 00:07:02,013 Speaker 1: to newstalksz' B from nine am Saturday, or follow the 148 00:07:02,013 --> 00:07:03,493 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio