1
00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,973
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.

2
00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173
Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:16,693 --> 00:00:19,733
Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

4
00:00:19,773 --> 00:00:24,293
Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the US, now the

5
00:00:24,453 --> 00:00:27,653
Speaker 1: Leyton Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B.

6
00:00:28,093 --> 00:00:31,773
Speaker 2: Welcome to podcasts two hundred and ninety five for July thirty,

7
00:00:32,013 --> 00:00:34,653
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Let me start with a headline from

8
00:00:34,653 --> 00:00:39,453
Speaker 2: the New Zealand Herald fifteen August twenty twenty two, seabed

9
00:00:39,533 --> 00:00:44,813
Speaker 2: mining could deny unparalleled economic opportunity. Now In the interview

10
00:00:44,813 --> 00:00:47,413
Speaker 2: to follow, there is a lot of detail. That detail

11
00:00:47,453 --> 00:00:51,933
Speaker 2: covers a lot of territory, financial, social, racial, political, as

12
00:00:51,933 --> 00:00:54,853
Speaker 2: you'll hear, and there is much detail in the following discussion.

13
00:00:55,573 --> 00:01:00,493
Speaker 2: The company involved describes the situation as an outstanding opportunity

14
00:01:00,533 --> 00:01:04,213
Speaker 2: for New Zealand. There's been over eighty five million dollars

15
00:01:04,253 --> 00:01:07,213
Speaker 2: invested in the project over fifteen years, with much more

16
00:01:07,253 --> 00:01:10,613
Speaker 2: to come. The problems that have been confronting the company

17
00:01:10,653 --> 00:01:13,733
Speaker 2: to this point could be over and that's thanks to

18
00:01:14,093 --> 00:01:18,293
Speaker 2: fast Track, the new system of getting things going. But

19
00:01:18,373 --> 00:01:21,933
Speaker 2: as you'll hear, there are you might say, speed bumps

20
00:01:22,133 --> 00:01:25,213
Speaker 2: and chicanery to deal with. The author of that article

21
00:01:25,213 --> 00:01:28,653
Speaker 2: in the Herald from twenty twenty two is Alan Eggers.

22
00:01:29,173 --> 00:01:32,533
Speaker 2: He is the executive chairman of Trans Tasman Resources Limited.

23
00:01:32,813 --> 00:01:34,373
Speaker 2: This is what he said at the very end of

24
00:01:34,413 --> 00:01:38,453
Speaker 2: that piece. New Zealand is well placed to develop a new,

25
00:01:38,733 --> 00:01:43,413
Speaker 2: long term, one billion dollar plus export industry producing one

26
00:01:43,413 --> 00:01:47,693
Speaker 2: of the lowest carbon intensity iron ore concentrates in the world.

27
00:01:48,173 --> 00:01:52,933
Speaker 2: Naiwa Packer's Bill, if enacted, would deny New Zealand access

28
00:01:53,013 --> 00:01:57,493
Speaker 2: to this unparalleled economic opportunity. Now, I might suggest that

29
00:01:57,533 --> 00:02:01,213
Speaker 2: what you're about to hear provides some reason, some explanation,

30
00:02:01,293 --> 00:02:06,293
Speaker 2: some rationale for why New Zealand is not the successful

31
00:02:06,373 --> 00:02:10,173
Speaker 2: country that it could be, and certainly that it should be.

32
00:02:10,413 --> 00:02:14,573
Speaker 2: The chairman of trans Tasman Resources Allen Eggers after the break.

33
00:02:22,093 --> 00:02:25,733
Speaker 2: Buccolan is a natural oral vaccine in a tablet form

34
00:02:25,813 --> 00:02:30,173
Speaker 2: called bacterial licate. It'll boost your natural protection against bacterial

35
00:02:30,213 --> 00:02:33,173
Speaker 2: infections in your chest and throat. A three day course

36
00:02:33,213 --> 00:02:35,893
Speaker 2: of seven Buckland tablets will help your body build up

37
00:02:35,893 --> 00:02:40,253
Speaker 2: to three months of immunity against bugs which cause bacterial

38
00:02:40,333 --> 00:02:43,453
Speaker 2: cold symptoms. So who can take buccolan well, the whole

39
00:02:43,493 --> 00:02:46,533
Speaker 2: family from two years of age and upwards. A course

40
00:02:46,573 --> 00:02:49,933
Speaker 2: of Bucckelan tablets offers cost effective and safe protection from

41
00:02:49,973 --> 00:02:54,013
Speaker 2: colds and chills. Protection becomes effective a few days after

42
00:02:54,053 --> 00:02:56,853
Speaker 2: you take buccolan and lasts for up to three months

43
00:02:56,893 --> 00:03:00,093
Speaker 2: following the three day course. Buccolan can be taken throughout

44
00:03:00,093 --> 00:03:02,893
Speaker 2: the cold season, over winter, or all the year round.

45
00:03:03,133 --> 00:03:06,013
Speaker 2: And remember Buckelan is not intended as an alternative to

46
00:03:06,093 --> 00:03:09,533
Speaker 2: influenza vaccination, but may be used along with the flu

47
00:03:09,613 --> 00:03:13,733
Speaker 2: vaccination for added protection. And keep in mind that millions

48
00:03:13,733 --> 00:03:17,013
Speaker 2: of doses have been taken by Kiwis for over fifty years.

49
00:03:17,333 --> 00:03:20,773
Speaker 2: Only available from your pharmacist. Always read the label and

50
00:03:21,013 --> 00:03:24,413
Speaker 2: users directed, and see your doctor if systems persist. Farmer

51
00:03:24,453 --> 00:03:25,893
Speaker 2: Broker Auckland.

52
00:03:36,973 --> 00:03:37,733
Speaker 3: Layton Smith.

53
00:03:38,733 --> 00:03:43,213
Speaker 2: Now here's a question, what is the Fast Track Approvals Act? Well,

54
00:03:43,293 --> 00:03:46,613
Speaker 2: that depends on who's asking the question and more importantly,

55
00:03:47,053 --> 00:03:51,453
Speaker 2: who's providing the answer. Here is one, for instance, the

56
00:03:51,493 --> 00:03:54,773
Speaker 2: Fast Track Approvals Act of twenty twenty four is a

57
00:03:54,773 --> 00:03:57,813
Speaker 2: new law that creates an accelerated consent path for major

58
00:03:57,853 --> 00:04:04,893
Speaker 2: development projects in a tiroa that's New Zealand. It allows

59
00:04:04,933 --> 00:04:08,333
Speaker 2: certain projects to bypass key steps of the standard Resort

60
00:04:08,333 --> 00:04:12,933
Speaker 2: Horse Management Act the RMA, including no public notification, no

61
00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:17,693
Speaker 2: right to lodge, formal submissions, no automatic hearings, and limited

62
00:04:17,693 --> 00:04:21,973
Speaker 2: appeal rights and then only on points of law. Instead,

63
00:04:22,053 --> 00:04:25,893
Speaker 2: selected projects go straight to an expert consenting panel, which

64
00:04:25,933 --> 00:04:29,773
Speaker 2: decides whether they proceed. The panel must give greater weight

65
00:04:29,853 --> 00:04:34,013
Speaker 2: to a project's benefits like economic development or energy supply,

66
00:04:34,653 --> 00:04:39,813
Speaker 2: than to its environmental or recreational impacts. This process is

67
00:04:39,893 --> 00:04:44,453
Speaker 2: much faster and harder to challenge than the standard RMA route.

68
00:04:44,533 --> 00:04:48,653
Speaker 2: Once a project is listed or referred, legal experts say

69
00:04:48,773 --> 00:04:52,493
Speaker 2: it is very difficult to stop, especially for individuals or

70
00:04:52,493 --> 00:04:56,733
Speaker 2: community groups. Now if you sensed a cynicism in that,

71
00:04:57,493 --> 00:05:01,333
Speaker 2: then I think you'd be quite right. And that came

72
00:05:01,413 --> 00:05:06,933
Speaker 2: from Whitewater Recreation. Let's turn to a release from two

73
00:05:07,013 --> 00:05:11,973
Speaker 2: Ministers Bishop and Shane Jones. Since the fast track approval

74
00:05:12,013 --> 00:05:15,853
Speaker 2: system opened for business, these statistics show strong progress toward

75
00:05:15,933 --> 00:05:18,533
Speaker 2: making it quicker and easier to build the project's New

76
00:05:18,613 --> 00:05:21,853
Speaker 2: Zealand needs for economic growth. By New Zealand they mean

77
00:05:21,933 --> 00:05:26,213
Speaker 2: paved to rower of course. RMA Reform and Infrastructure Minister

78
00:05:26,373 --> 00:05:30,333
Speaker 2: Chris Bishop and Regional Developed Minister Shane Jones say The

79
00:05:30,413 --> 00:05:33,893
Speaker 2: Fast Track Approvals Act, part of the Coalition agreement between

80
00:05:33,973 --> 00:05:36,413
Speaker 2: National and New Zealand, first, was signed into law just

81
00:05:36,453 --> 00:05:40,573
Speaker 2: before Christmas last year and opened for project applications on

82
00:05:40,773 --> 00:05:44,133
Speaker 2: seven February this year. The Act helps cut through the

83
00:05:44,173 --> 00:05:46,693
Speaker 2: tangle of red and green tape and the jumble of

84
00:05:46,733 --> 00:05:51,093
Speaker 2: approvals processes that has until now held New Zealand back

85
00:05:51,293 --> 00:05:55,133
Speaker 2: from much needed economic growth. According to Mister Bishop, the

86
00:05:55,213 --> 00:05:58,093
Speaker 2: Fast Track Approvals Act contains a list of one hundred

87
00:05:58,093 --> 00:06:02,573
Speaker 2: and forty nine projects which from seven February have been

88
00:06:02,573 --> 00:06:06,293
Speaker 2: able to apply to the Environmental Protection Authority the EPA

89
00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:11,733
Speaker 2: for consideration by an expert panel. The expert panels consider

90
00:06:11,813 --> 00:06:15,653
Speaker 2: each application, decide whether or not each project receives approval,

91
00:06:16,053 --> 00:06:20,773
Speaker 2: and attach any necessary conditions to those approvals. Now, in

92
00:06:20,813 --> 00:06:23,213
Speaker 2: the four months since the fast Track World was when

93
00:06:23,213 --> 00:06:25,653
Speaker 2: this was written, in the four months since the fast

94
00:06:25,653 --> 00:06:30,453
Speaker 2: Track one stop shop approvals regime officially opened for project applications,

95
00:06:30,853 --> 00:06:33,853
Speaker 2: we've seen good progress on a range of applications for

96
00:06:33,933 --> 00:06:37,253
Speaker 2: projects that, if approved, will grow New Zealand's economy and

97
00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:41,493
Speaker 2: sort out our infrastructure deficit, our housing crisis and the

98
00:06:41,693 --> 00:06:46,813
Speaker 2: energy shortage. Instead of tying essential projects up in knots

99
00:06:47,213 --> 00:06:50,613
Speaker 2: for years at a time. Now I'm about to introduce

100
00:06:50,613 --> 00:06:53,613
Speaker 2: you to a case that has been not just a

101
00:06:53,613 --> 00:06:57,773
Speaker 2: few months, not just a few years, but a hell

102
00:06:57,813 --> 00:07:01,173
Speaker 2: of a long time. The application comes from Trans Tasman

103
00:07:01,293 --> 00:07:06,213
Speaker 2: Resources TTR. So by way of background, TTR is seeking

104
00:07:06,253 --> 00:07:10,733
Speaker 2: fast track approval to seabed minor iron sands in the

105
00:07:10,773 --> 00:07:14,933
Speaker 2: South Taranaki Byte to extract iron ore and the critical

106
00:07:14,933 --> 00:07:20,173
Speaker 2: minerals of vanadium and titanium. In brief, TTR is seeking

107
00:07:20,253 --> 00:07:24,253
Speaker 2: approval to harvest up to fifty million tons of the

108
00:07:24,253 --> 00:07:28,053
Speaker 2: black iron sands located in the exclusive economic Zone at

109
00:07:28,173 --> 00:07:31,173
Speaker 2: least twenty two kilometers and up to thirty six kilometers

110
00:07:31,213 --> 00:07:35,133
Speaker 2: off the coast of Taranaki in the South Taranaki Byte.

111
00:07:35,213 --> 00:07:39,293
Speaker 2: The critical minerals are in demand as countries transition to

112
00:07:39,573 --> 00:07:44,133
Speaker 2: renewable energy sources. Anyhow, TTR has been seeking approvals for

113
00:07:44,133 --> 00:07:48,573
Speaker 2: seabed mining since twenty thirteen, when its first application to

114
00:07:48,613 --> 00:07:52,533
Speaker 2: the Environmental Protection author It was declined. It did further

115
00:07:52,573 --> 00:07:55,773
Speaker 2: work and applied again, and in twenty seventeen the EPA

116
00:07:55,893 --> 00:08:00,293
Speaker 2: approved its application, with TTR agreeing to one hundred and

117
00:08:00,373 --> 00:08:05,693
Speaker 2: nine operating conditions and management plans. Alan Eggers is the

118
00:08:05,853 --> 00:08:12,653
Speaker 2: executive chairman of Trans Tasman Resources TTR and he's a

119
00:08:12,653 --> 00:08:15,253
Speaker 2: man with a very interesting story to tell. Very good

120
00:08:15,253 --> 00:08:18,173
Speaker 2: to have you on the podcast. Welcome, Thank you, Laden,

121
00:08:18,893 --> 00:08:22,333
Speaker 2: Thanks for they Why why don't you start with a

122
00:08:22,373 --> 00:08:25,453
Speaker 2: brief because I've covered it off myself briefly, but with

123
00:08:25,573 --> 00:08:29,853
Speaker 2: a brief of how you started applications in twenty thirteen,

124
00:08:30,373 --> 00:08:33,813
Speaker 2: and just like I said, briefly, what happened between then

125
00:08:33,853 --> 00:08:34,213
Speaker 2: and now.

126
00:08:35,013 --> 00:08:37,013
Speaker 3: Well it's hard to be brief about that, Laden, but

127
00:08:37,053 --> 00:08:40,613
Speaker 3: I'll give it a shot. We applied for our first

128
00:08:41,773 --> 00:08:45,853
Speaker 3: environmental consents. We've got a mining license or mining permit

129
00:08:46,293 --> 00:08:50,773
Speaker 3: to operate and extract heavy mineral sands from the South

130
00:08:50,773 --> 00:08:54,813
Speaker 3: Taranake Byte and once we have that, we need environmental

131
00:08:54,853 --> 00:08:58,133
Speaker 3: consents and out in the EZ where we are in

132
00:08:58,173 --> 00:09:02,813
Speaker 3: New Zealand's Exclusive Economic Zone, we need a down a

133
00:09:02,813 --> 00:09:06,173
Speaker 3: marine consent, which is really an environmental consent to operate

134
00:09:06,733 --> 00:09:10,853
Speaker 3: and the EBA grant those who are the administrator for

135
00:09:10,893 --> 00:09:13,533
Speaker 3: the EZ. So we applied in two thousand and thirty

136
00:09:14,573 --> 00:09:21,173
Speaker 3: and our application we thought was reasonably comprehensible enough, but

137
00:09:21,293 --> 00:09:23,733
Speaker 3: we failed to test and we were declined in twenty

138
00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:28,173
Speaker 3: and fourteen, so we stepped back, we looked at where

139
00:09:28,213 --> 00:09:31,093
Speaker 3: the short falls were, and we spent the next two

140
00:09:31,133 --> 00:09:36,493
Speaker 3: years going back to our experts, undertaking a massive amount

141
00:09:36,573 --> 00:09:43,213
Speaker 3: of consultation with local groups, councils, EWI and various interest groups.

142
00:09:43,813 --> 00:09:47,093
Speaker 3: But just as importantly we got Niwer and our international

143
00:09:47,133 --> 00:09:50,653
Speaker 3: experts to update the marine science and any shortfalls we

144
00:09:50,693 --> 00:09:52,573
Speaker 3: had in there. And a lot of the controversy was

145
00:09:52,613 --> 00:09:55,573
Speaker 3: around the plume and the effects of the plume. And

146
00:09:55,933 --> 00:10:00,653
Speaker 3: we did that work and re submitted in twenty and

147
00:10:00,733 --> 00:10:04,093
Speaker 3: sixteen and were granted our marine and by then we

148
00:10:04,093 --> 00:10:06,653
Speaker 3: also need the marine discharged consent. I'd added to the

149
00:10:06,693 --> 00:10:09,533
Speaker 3: list of things we needed and we were granted those

150
00:10:09,573 --> 00:10:16,773
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen. And what they well, our opponents decided

151
00:10:16,813 --> 00:10:21,213
Speaker 3: that perhaps there were points of law that they challenged

152
00:10:21,253 --> 00:10:23,173
Speaker 3: us time, so they took us to the High Court

153
00:10:23,533 --> 00:10:27,853
Speaker 3: and challenged the DMC or the Decision Making Committee's decision.

154
00:10:29,733 --> 00:10:31,333
Speaker 3: So they took us to the High Court on twenty

155
00:10:31,413 --> 00:10:35,213
Speaker 3: nine points of law. It's a bit of if you

156
00:10:35,293 --> 00:10:38,333
Speaker 3: throw enough of it at some of ittle stick. And

157
00:10:38,413 --> 00:10:45,093
Speaker 3: this was funded really by Greenpeace, but the e we

158
00:10:45,093 --> 00:10:50,253
Speaker 3: were there and there were some fishing interests there, even

159
00:10:50,293 --> 00:10:53,453
Speaker 3: though we got agreements out there with the major fisher

160
00:10:53,493 --> 00:10:58,373
Speaker 3: in the area, sandfits and in the High Court the

161
00:10:58,453 --> 00:11:03,173
Speaker 3: decision came down. We won twenty eight of those points.

162
00:11:03,893 --> 00:11:08,693
Speaker 3: We lost on one, which was adaptive management day said Churchmen.

163
00:11:08,893 --> 00:11:13,693
Speaker 3: Justice Churchmen ruled that we had adaptive management and that

164
00:11:13,813 --> 00:11:15,413
Speaker 3: wasn't permitted for a marine consent.

165
00:11:15,813 --> 00:11:16,653
Speaker 2: Now what does that mean.

166
00:11:17,533 --> 00:11:19,893
Speaker 3: Well, that means that you can kind of suck it

167
00:11:19,973 --> 00:11:23,253
Speaker 3: and see or you can get going and then work

168
00:11:23,293 --> 00:11:26,773
Speaker 3: out what sort of if you are creating adverse effects

169
00:11:26,853 --> 00:11:29,853
Speaker 3: what they are, and then start setting limits. We didn't.

170
00:11:29,973 --> 00:11:33,373
Speaker 3: We had hard limits set and we were confident of that.

171
00:11:33,413 --> 00:11:35,053
Speaker 3: So it was us that went to the Court of

172
00:11:35,093 --> 00:11:41,493
Speaker 3: Appeal and appealed to the fact that we had adaptive management.

173
00:11:42,493 --> 00:11:47,413
Speaker 3: The Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court subsequently confirmed

174
00:11:47,453 --> 00:11:50,653
Speaker 3: that we didn't and overturned that decision. So effectively we

175
00:11:50,693 --> 00:11:54,693
Speaker 3: won all twenty nine points of law. However, the Court

176
00:11:54,693 --> 00:11:57,933
Speaker 3: of Appeal came out with a whole lot of left

177
00:11:57,973 --> 00:12:02,893
Speaker 3: wing issues about international law and unclass which is the

178
00:12:03,013 --> 00:12:07,813
Speaker 3: United Nations law of the sea and how that effect

179
00:12:07,853 --> 00:12:11,653
Speaker 3: may affects, and a few other issues about six of them,

180
00:12:12,173 --> 00:12:14,773
Speaker 3: and ruled against us on those which weren't even things

181
00:12:14,773 --> 00:12:18,373
Speaker 3: that were appealed, issues that were appealed. But again, our

182
00:12:18,373 --> 00:12:22,133
Speaker 3: opponent's Greenpeace are very skilledness and by the way, they

183
00:12:22,213 --> 00:12:26,373
Speaker 3: undertake this kind of lawfare around the world and it's

184
00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:31,293
Speaker 3: the same legalty internationally that are setting at the desk

185
00:12:31,533 --> 00:12:36,733
Speaker 3: against us. So we then looked at that and our

186
00:12:36,733 --> 00:12:39,453
Speaker 3: advice was that they've got it wrong. So we took

187
00:12:39,493 --> 00:12:42,573
Speaker 3: that to the Supreme Court. We largely got all of

188
00:12:42,613 --> 00:12:45,773
Speaker 3: those overturned in the Supreme Court. And what the Supreme

189
00:12:45,893 --> 00:12:48,693
Speaker 3: Court said, the highest court in this land said, the

190
00:12:48,773 --> 00:12:54,173
Speaker 3: ultimate Court is that these consents should be sent back

191
00:12:54,213 --> 00:12:56,693
Speaker 3: to the DMC to reconsider because and they made a

192
00:12:56,733 --> 00:13:00,213
Speaker 3: number of points about how the DMC hadn't applied the

193
00:13:00,293 --> 00:13:07,333
Speaker 3: Act correctly. Our consent conditions and our effects were never challenged.

194
00:13:08,493 --> 00:13:11,373
Speaker 3: What was was the application of the law and the

195
00:13:11,413 --> 00:13:15,853
Speaker 3: purpose of the Act. And they also said that TTR

196
00:13:15,933 --> 00:13:21,613
Speaker 3: should have the opportunity to have its application reconsidered and

197
00:13:21,653 --> 00:13:26,533
Speaker 3: supply any information deficits if there are any. That was

198
00:13:26,573 --> 00:13:30,893
Speaker 3: in legal terms. But that pimply what the Supreme Court said.

199
00:13:31,333 --> 00:13:36,373
Speaker 3: No court in this land has banned or closed down

200
00:13:36,653 --> 00:13:40,933
Speaker 3: seabd mining that has not happened. So with that, we

201
00:13:40,973 --> 00:13:44,013
Speaker 3: went back to the EBI and asked them to reconvene

202
00:13:44,013 --> 00:13:49,413
Speaker 3: their DMC and reconsider our consents, taking into account the

203
00:13:49,893 --> 00:13:55,333
Speaker 3: six shortfalls that the Supreme Court had identified, and they

204
00:13:55,373 --> 00:14:03,373
Speaker 3: were around information on marine mammals, seabirds, why we hadn't

205
00:14:03,373 --> 00:14:07,533
Speaker 3: posted a bond and taking I got introduced of course

206
00:14:07,693 --> 00:14:12,133
Speaker 3: by this and Tea tanger and cultural guardianship issues if

207
00:14:12,133 --> 00:14:15,293
Speaker 3: you like, and we're not on the radar when we

208
00:14:15,333 --> 00:14:18,093
Speaker 3: put in our application in twenty and sixteen. That's all

209
00:14:18,133 --> 00:14:20,893
Speaker 3: developed since as I'm sure your listeners are away.

210
00:14:20,973 --> 00:14:24,013
Speaker 2: So this particular period that you're talking was what year.

211
00:14:25,293 --> 00:14:28,293
Speaker 3: Well, this got us to twenty and twenty one. That's

212
00:14:28,293 --> 00:14:30,693
Speaker 3: how long that took for the Supreme Court in September

213
00:14:30,733 --> 00:14:33,773
Speaker 3: twenty and twenty one to deliver a judgment. It then

214
00:14:33,853 --> 00:14:36,973
Speaker 3: took it then took the EPA two and a half

215
00:14:37,053 --> 00:14:39,813
Speaker 3: years to get somebody to sit down in hardware in

216
00:14:39,853 --> 00:14:43,653
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, believe it or not, just to start rehearing.

217
00:14:43,693 --> 00:14:48,173
Speaker 3: That's how long it took our bureaucrats to get us

218
00:14:48,293 --> 00:14:52,173
Speaker 3: back to the table. This is a major commercial project

219
00:14:52,173 --> 00:14:54,973
Speaker 3: where we haven't invested over ninety minute. I sorry, over

220
00:14:54,973 --> 00:14:58,813
Speaker 3: eighty five million, nearly ninety million dollars and we are

221
00:14:58,853 --> 00:15:04,173
Speaker 3: now being frustrated by a bunch of bureaucrats. Now, let

222
00:15:04,213 --> 00:15:08,853
Speaker 3: me just say something about bureaucrats later if you must, Yes, well,

223
00:15:08,893 --> 00:15:13,213
Speaker 3: I think it's worth be my guest. Okay. I think

224
00:15:13,333 --> 00:15:17,293
Speaker 3: bureaucrats and the bureaucracy here and particularly the civil service

225
00:15:18,173 --> 00:15:22,373
Speaker 3: around Wellington, are like road canes. When you come across them,

226
00:15:22,733 --> 00:15:25,053
Speaker 3: there's a hell of a lot of them. They're not

227
00:15:25,133 --> 00:15:28,533
Speaker 3: doing anything, and you could remove four out of five

228
00:15:28,613 --> 00:15:32,853
Speaker 3: and still have the same effect without any any danger

229
00:15:32,893 --> 00:15:36,413
Speaker 3: to anybody or the environment. And if you look behind them,

230
00:15:36,733 --> 00:15:40,613
Speaker 3: there's generally no work happening at all, and it's just

231
00:15:41,133 --> 00:15:48,973
Speaker 3: burning consuming money and delaying progress and productive enterprises from

232
00:15:49,013 --> 00:15:51,133
Speaker 3: getting on with what they need to do.

233
00:15:51,133 --> 00:15:55,213
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea, any sort on what drives them.

234
00:15:55,853 --> 00:15:59,093
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the green pieces or the EWI

235
00:15:59,173 --> 00:16:01,413
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the bureaucrats.

236
00:16:01,893 --> 00:16:07,333
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it's obvious they have very comfortable lifestyles,

237
00:16:07,373 --> 00:16:10,133
Speaker 3: are assured if they're pay check next week. They don't

238
00:16:10,173 --> 00:16:15,733
Speaker 3: know what risk means. They just sit there and invent

239
00:16:16,053 --> 00:16:18,493
Speaker 3: committees to talk to each other, if you got rid

240
00:16:18,493 --> 00:16:20,373
Speaker 3: of four out of five bureaucrats, you'd have a more

241
00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:22,933
Speaker 3: efficient system because they have less committee meetings that it

242
00:16:23,013 --> 00:16:25,333
Speaker 3: might get on and do something, and the four that

243
00:16:25,373 --> 00:16:28,413
Speaker 3: have been dispensed with could actually have shovels and be

244
00:16:28,653 --> 00:16:31,093
Speaker 3: working behind those road gones filling podoles.

245
00:16:31,733 --> 00:16:34,693
Speaker 2: Do you think that Wellington having a lot of a

246
00:16:34,693 --> 00:16:37,373
Speaker 2: lot of problems, a lot of issues with the city

247
00:16:37,413 --> 00:16:41,773
Speaker 2: of the council, the debt, the water system, everything that's

248
00:16:41,933 --> 00:16:44,893
Speaker 2: everything that's gone to miss it's not a pleasant place

249
00:16:44,933 --> 00:16:49,333
Speaker 2: to be. Do you think maybe that they are picking

250
00:16:49,413 --> 00:16:52,573
Speaker 2: up payment for what they've done in the past and

251
00:16:52,653 --> 00:16:54,613
Speaker 2: continue to do well.

252
00:16:55,013 --> 00:16:58,973
Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure about that. And I quite like

253
00:16:59,013 --> 00:17:01,853
Speaker 3: Wellington and I went to university there and I support

254
00:17:01,893 --> 00:17:05,813
Speaker 3: I continue to support research at Victoria University of Wellington.

255
00:17:09,493 --> 00:17:12,853
Speaker 3: They've allowed everything to slide, and I think the emphasis

256
00:17:12,893 --> 00:17:17,693
Speaker 3: on the environment and cycling pathways and on we go

257
00:17:18,013 --> 00:17:22,453
Speaker 3: is throe to the direct detriment of progress and enterprise,

258
00:17:23,173 --> 00:17:28,573
Speaker 3: and it certainly doesn't encourage an investment by risk capital

259
00:17:28,613 --> 00:17:30,493
Speaker 3: to get in and do some of these things. As

260
00:17:30,533 --> 00:17:35,493
Speaker 3: for the public infrastructure, well that simply can't be fixed

261
00:17:35,573 --> 00:17:38,533
Speaker 3: up because we don't have the funds and the taxpayer

262
00:17:38,573 --> 00:17:39,613
Speaker 3: funds to pay for it.

263
00:17:39,973 --> 00:17:42,413
Speaker 2: But they do have funds for all sorts of things

264
00:17:42,453 --> 00:17:47,213
Speaker 2: like very expensive welcome welcome parties for new bureaucrats.

265
00:17:47,333 --> 00:17:51,813
Speaker 3: Exactly in cycle ways, that's right, and those bureaucrats also

266
00:17:52,253 --> 00:17:56,333
Speaker 3: travel extensively. We have problems at the moment where a

267
00:17:56,373 --> 00:17:58,493
Speaker 3: lot of them seem to be in Europe. I haven't

268
00:17:58,533 --> 00:18:00,533
Speaker 3: looked hard, but I think if you have a look

269
00:18:00,533 --> 00:18:02,493
Speaker 3: at the Wimbledon finals, who probably see a few of

270
00:18:02,533 --> 00:18:07,493
Speaker 3: them pop they're eating strawberries and ice cream, that the

271
00:18:07,533 --> 00:18:11,053
Speaker 3: point is that they're paid well, they've got extensive leave,

272
00:18:11,093 --> 00:18:13,253
Speaker 3: and they want more. They want a four day working week.

273
00:18:13,293 --> 00:18:16,893
Speaker 3: I understand what this country needs to do is drag

274
00:18:16,933 --> 00:18:22,213
Speaker 3: itself up from where it is and encourage enterprise investment

275
00:18:22,693 --> 00:18:28,053
Speaker 3: and industries and projects that generate wealth. You can have

276
00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:32,453
Speaker 3: your infrastructure only if you generate wealth, and we're not

277
00:18:32,533 --> 00:18:37,413
Speaker 3: doing that. The Infrastructure Commission here suggested to the Fast

278
00:18:37,453 --> 00:18:41,053
Speaker 3: Track Committee during the hearing stages of the bill going

279
00:18:41,053 --> 00:18:44,533
Speaker 3: through Parliament last year that in fact it should only

280
00:18:44,573 --> 00:18:51,253
Speaker 3: be for infrastructure because that would cause less challenges and

281
00:18:51,453 --> 00:18:54,293
Speaker 3: we could get on and build the infrastructure new Zealand

282
00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:57,973
Speaker 3: needs well, I would ask the Infrastructure Commission, how is

283
00:18:58,013 --> 00:19:01,853
Speaker 3: that infrastructure going to be paid for? Because I would

284
00:19:01,973 --> 00:19:06,613
Speaker 3: like to remind our politicians and bureaucrats that governments don't

285
00:19:06,653 --> 00:19:11,093
Speaker 3: create any wealth really consumer and what we need to

286
00:19:11,133 --> 00:19:16,093
Speaker 3: do is create jobs, paying taxes more in comfort treasury.

287
00:19:16,493 --> 00:19:21,013
Speaker 3: I'm sure Nichola Willis would like this and massively cut

288
00:19:21,573 --> 00:19:27,493
Speaker 3: the owner of his burden on government places and businesses.

289
00:19:27,893 --> 00:19:30,133
Speaker 3: It's all got the wrong emphasis.

290
00:19:30,173 --> 00:19:35,133
Speaker 2: Later, Yes it does. I spent five years in Wellington

291
00:19:36,813 --> 00:19:43,013
Speaker 2: and it wasn't in the condition that it is now. Nevertheless,

292
00:19:43,373 --> 00:19:45,693
Speaker 2: let's look at it. Let's just look look at a

293
00:19:45,733 --> 00:19:49,013
Speaker 2: bit of your background. You mentioned that you studied there.

294
00:19:49,093 --> 00:19:50,253
Speaker 2: Is that where you did geology?

295
00:19:51,013 --> 00:19:53,973
Speaker 3: Yes, I did. I did three degrees in geology and

296
00:19:54,053 --> 00:19:58,093
Speaker 3: economics at Victoria University and completed a master's there in

297
00:19:58,173 --> 00:20:02,253
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, I think. And I'd been out in

298
00:20:02,293 --> 00:20:04,333
Speaker 3: the binning industry before I went. I went as a

299
00:20:04,373 --> 00:20:08,093
Speaker 3: mature age student and Bob Clark, a professor of geology

300
00:20:08,133 --> 00:20:13,973
Speaker 3: there at Victoria University, gave me an opportunity and said, well,

301
00:20:14,413 --> 00:20:16,533
Speaker 3: because I came in from a mining company, I was

302
00:20:16,533 --> 00:20:18,293
Speaker 3: a surveyor with a mining company, but I said, I

303
00:20:18,333 --> 00:20:21,093
Speaker 3: like geology and I wanted to do a degree, and

304
00:20:21,133 --> 00:20:23,613
Speaker 3: I was over twenty one, and he said, well, we'll

305
00:20:23,613 --> 00:20:27,493
Speaker 3: give you a shot. And I really enjoyed it. And

306
00:20:27,653 --> 00:20:30,253
Speaker 3: you know that department and the university were great to me.

307
00:20:30,613 --> 00:20:36,173
Speaker 3: They supported me. I got a scholarship after the first year.

308
00:20:36,213 --> 00:20:39,013
Speaker 3: I never failed a subject, and yet I'd only gone

309
00:20:39,093 --> 00:20:45,573
Speaker 3: to third year secondary school and I did maths and chemistry, geology, economics,

310
00:20:47,093 --> 00:20:48,493
Speaker 3: physics at university.

311
00:20:49,413 --> 00:20:52,053
Speaker 2: What was it about you that only getting the third

312
00:20:52,173 --> 00:20:57,573
Speaker 2: year you went on and succeeded in university fields, in

313
00:20:57,693 --> 00:21:03,453
Speaker 2: realistic fields, shall we say, qualifications that can make great contribution.

314
00:21:04,253 --> 00:21:06,613
Speaker 2: What is it about you that you achieved that?

315
00:21:07,613 --> 00:21:11,933
Speaker 3: Ah? I think it comes from I had a good

316
00:21:12,213 --> 00:21:15,133
Speaker 3: family upbringing and Mote Wacre on a hop farm and

317
00:21:15,213 --> 00:21:20,373
Speaker 3: forestry industry. But my father and my grandfather were very

318
00:21:20,493 --> 00:21:26,533
Speaker 3: much hard working entrepreneurial rural sorts. I'm the first in

319
00:21:26,613 --> 00:21:30,093
Speaker 3: our entire family in New Zealand, fifth generation German IMMI

320
00:21:30,133 --> 00:21:33,053
Speaker 3: rents from the eighteen fifties that went to university, the

321
00:21:33,053 --> 00:21:36,653
Speaker 3: first one ever out of quite an extended family by then.

322
00:21:36,733 --> 00:21:39,213
Speaker 3: Of course, nowadays, just about everybody's got a degrees you

323
00:21:39,253 --> 00:21:43,173
Speaker 3: know later, but in those days they did mostly in nothing,

324
00:21:43,853 --> 00:21:47,293
Speaker 3: and that's right, and I was I had a good

325
00:21:47,333 --> 00:21:52,173
Speaker 3: work ethic. And what I did at university is I

326
00:21:52,213 --> 00:21:56,333
Speaker 3: went there at eight o'clock on Monday morning and worked

327
00:21:56,653 --> 00:22:00,693
Speaker 3: basically an eight hour day until Friday evening, and then

328
00:22:00,733 --> 00:22:04,453
Speaker 3: I headed to the Grand Hotel on Friday evening. And

329
00:22:04,533 --> 00:22:06,293
Speaker 3: let's just say I had a few jugs of beer

330
00:22:06,453 --> 00:22:10,853
Speaker 3: and enjoyed my weekends a great time. But I was

331
00:22:10,933 --> 00:22:14,453
Speaker 3: back on there and worked during the week at the university,

332
00:22:14,533 --> 00:22:16,853
Speaker 3: and yet and I was amazed. I looked at most

333
00:22:16,853 --> 00:22:20,613
Speaker 3: of students and they were all, you know, cramming towards

334
00:22:20,653 --> 00:22:23,533
Speaker 3: the end of each semester and looking for notes. And

335
00:22:23,573 --> 00:22:24,973
Speaker 3: I used to be able to sell my notes for

336
00:22:25,013 --> 00:22:30,613
Speaker 3: a slab of beer. So I really had a good time.

337
00:22:31,093 --> 00:22:33,493
Speaker 3: But I think I was determined, and I didn't go

338
00:22:33,573 --> 00:22:37,333
Speaker 3: to university to get a degree. I went to university

339
00:22:38,293 --> 00:22:40,773
Speaker 3: to learn how to learn and get a career.

340
00:22:42,973 --> 00:22:48,573
Speaker 2: And you succeeded. So let me let me proceed on

341
00:22:48,573 --> 00:22:51,533
Speaker 2: this path from a little longer. So what would you

342
00:22:51,733 --> 00:22:53,853
Speaker 2: if you were in as, if you were a member

343
00:22:53,853 --> 00:22:56,973
Speaker 2: of parliament, if you were a minister in the government

344
00:22:57,293 --> 00:23:01,093
Speaker 2: and you had the opportunity to do it, What would

345
00:23:01,173 --> 00:23:05,893
Speaker 2: be the first steps that you'd take with regard to education.

346
00:23:06,533 --> 00:23:10,853
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a big question. I'll ask it at in

347
00:23:10,933 --> 00:23:15,653
Speaker 3: around about fashion laden to say that I'm so disappointed

348
00:23:16,053 --> 00:23:20,133
Speaker 3: that the hard sciences and maths and physics and geology

349
00:23:20,733 --> 00:23:25,573
Speaker 3: have been downgraded for arts degrees and social sciences shall

350
00:23:25,613 --> 00:23:28,933
Speaker 3: we call them, and even climate science. You know, there's

351
00:23:28,933 --> 00:23:31,973
Speaker 3: no such thing as climate science. It doesn't exist. That's

352
00:23:32,013 --> 00:23:34,533
Speaker 3: not a discipline. It's a bunch of people that have

353
00:23:34,613 --> 00:23:38,133
Speaker 3: made it up. Yes, we do need a social conscience

354
00:23:38,213 --> 00:23:40,933
Speaker 3: and we do need the other end of the spectrum

355
00:23:40,933 --> 00:23:44,853
Speaker 3: at all times, and I'm quite happy with that, but

356
00:23:44,933 --> 00:23:47,813
Speaker 3: I think the emphasis has gone too far in that direction,

357
00:23:48,293 --> 00:23:54,853
Speaker 3: and we're not generating engineers and geologists and economists and

358
00:23:55,133 --> 00:24:00,013
Speaker 3: people that get out there and build enterprises and get

359
00:24:00,053 --> 00:24:04,653
Speaker 3: things moving. We're getting people coming out of the universities

360
00:24:05,013 --> 00:24:08,093
Speaker 3: that have a sense of entitlement. And getting back to

361
00:24:08,093 --> 00:24:12,893
Speaker 3: your question about Wellington, they just want great welcome parties

362
00:24:13,333 --> 00:24:17,893
Speaker 3: and a nice time without being bothered about how it's

363
00:24:17,933 --> 00:24:19,613
Speaker 3: all paid for. They don't want to know.

364
00:24:20,933 --> 00:24:24,933
Speaker 2: It's been suggested to me and I've pondered this myself anyway,

365
00:24:25,573 --> 00:24:28,133
Speaker 2: that one of the biggest problems in New Zealand is

366
00:24:28,173 --> 00:24:30,893
Speaker 2: the population. Now, that doesn't mean the people who are

367
00:24:30,933 --> 00:24:34,293
Speaker 2: listening to us, because they've got more brains than a

368
00:24:34,333 --> 00:24:38,453
Speaker 2: lot of others. I'm just talking about people who don't

369
00:24:39,493 --> 00:24:43,093
Speaker 2: people who don't care, people who utilize the system.

370
00:24:43,533 --> 00:24:48,093
Speaker 3: Yes, there is quite right, and it comes back to

371
00:24:48,413 --> 00:24:52,533
Speaker 3: the sense of entitlement, but they're gaining the system later

372
00:24:53,413 --> 00:24:55,373
Speaker 3: and I can give you a real example of that.

373
00:24:56,053 --> 00:24:59,693
Speaker 3: In our case. We're in the fast track system as

374
00:24:59,733 --> 00:25:04,333
Speaker 3: everybody knows, and this process is ongoing, was just starting really,

375
00:25:05,013 --> 00:25:10,093
Speaker 3: But part of it is that we have consulted with

376
00:25:10,773 --> 00:25:13,533
Speaker 3: EWE and his three main EWI groups in South Taranaki.

377
00:25:13,573 --> 00:25:17,533
Speaker 3: We've consulted with and engaged with, albeit we've been rebuffed

378
00:25:17,733 --> 00:25:22,693
Speaker 3: the days. Beside the point going through the fast track process.

379
00:25:22,733 --> 00:25:25,693
Speaker 3: We locked a brand new application twenty twenty five with

380
00:25:25,773 --> 00:25:28,893
Speaker 3: everything updated, and we wrote to twelve ev groups, including

381
00:25:28,893 --> 00:25:33,293
Speaker 3: the EWE Fishing Forum in South Taranaki and asked them,

382
00:25:33,493 --> 00:25:36,173
Speaker 3: told them what we were doing, gave them the information

383
00:25:36,693 --> 00:25:40,933
Speaker 3: and asked them what at what it is that if

384
00:25:40,973 --> 00:25:42,973
Speaker 3: they have any concerns, what are they so that we

385
00:25:43,013 --> 00:25:48,653
Speaker 3: can address them. We had no response. However, the bureaucrats

386
00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:56,293
Speaker 3: invited thirty six EWE and HARFU groups to our conference

387
00:25:56,333 --> 00:26:03,093
Speaker 3: the other day with the conference panel conveners to decide

388
00:26:03,133 --> 00:26:06,453
Speaker 3: on the panel membership makeup and a time frame for

389
00:26:06,493 --> 00:26:11,853
Speaker 3: a decision. Plus EM groups were invited. Their regulations in

390
00:26:11,893 --> 00:26:13,973
Speaker 3: the Act says that we've got to pay each one

391
00:26:14,013 --> 00:26:17,693
Speaker 3: of those for showing up ten thousand dollars. That's three

392
00:26:17,773 --> 00:26:22,933
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty thousand dollars of non productive money that

393
00:26:23,333 --> 00:26:27,013
Speaker 3: I have got to find and pay for these people

394
00:26:27,133 --> 00:26:33,013
Speaker 3: to turn up to oppose us in a process of

395
00:26:33,053 --> 00:26:37,253
Speaker 3: approving a mining project of which they don't care about

396
00:26:37,373 --> 00:26:41,093
Speaker 3: or know little about and won't read about it. It's appalling.

397
00:26:41,973 --> 00:26:43,173
Speaker 2: Now who's responsible for that?

398
00:26:44,293 --> 00:26:49,453
Speaker 3: The bureaucrats, because it's so deeply ingrained in one that

399
00:26:49,573 --> 00:26:52,573
Speaker 3: they can't help themselves but go there. And I don't

400
00:26:52,573 --> 00:26:54,533
Speaker 3: think the government's very pleased with some of this that's

401
00:26:54,573 --> 00:26:54,893
Speaker 3: going on.

402
00:26:55,013 --> 00:26:57,413
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about Shane Jones in particular.

403
00:26:57,573 --> 00:26:59,533
Speaker 2: You have you communicated with him?

404
00:27:00,573 --> 00:27:06,013
Speaker 3: Yes, Shane and I have. How do I say that

405
00:27:06,093 --> 00:27:10,613
Speaker 3: being warned off each other in a way, because only

406
00:27:10,653 --> 00:27:15,333
Speaker 3: because I think the message in cabinet is for Shane. Yeah,

407
00:27:15,373 --> 00:27:19,293
Speaker 3: but you're not to promote TDR, and I think that's fair, okay,

408
00:27:19,773 --> 00:27:22,133
Speaker 3: But he is promoting the Fast Tracked Act. He's very

409
00:27:22,173 --> 00:27:27,813
Speaker 3: supportive of the offshore iron Sand's being being developed, and

410
00:27:27,893 --> 00:27:31,253
Speaker 3: he's very supportive freely of TDR and has made that plane.

411
00:27:31,653 --> 00:27:34,773
Speaker 3: But we don't communicate on a daily basis at all,

412
00:27:35,293 --> 00:27:38,373
Speaker 3: but I do get this information through to him. But

413
00:27:38,653 --> 00:27:41,013
Speaker 3: they are aware of it all. They are aware of

414
00:27:41,053 --> 00:27:43,773
Speaker 3: what's going on, and I don't think they like what's

415
00:27:43,813 --> 00:27:44,213
Speaker 3: going on.

416
00:27:45,773 --> 00:27:51,173
Speaker 4: When you say they, well, I think it's the Minister

417
00:27:51,653 --> 00:27:57,533
Speaker 4: for Our Resources and his team and perhaps some in

418
00:27:57,653 --> 00:27:59,173
Speaker 4: cabinet and the fast Track.

419
00:27:59,293 --> 00:28:03,773
Speaker 3: The relevant ministers that are really taking the fast Track

420
00:28:04,093 --> 00:28:06,773
Speaker 3: build through or the fast Track process through, which is

421
00:28:07,933 --> 00:28:12,053
Speaker 3: of course the key ministers are Simeon Brown and Chris

422
00:28:12,093 --> 00:28:18,373
Speaker 3: Bishop and Shane Jones, but any minister of course that's

423
00:28:18,413 --> 00:28:21,853
Speaker 3: relevant is also consulted, depending on what the project is.

424
00:28:22,813 --> 00:28:26,613
Speaker 3: And they called it fast track. Well, it's taking a

425
00:28:26,653 --> 00:28:30,373
Speaker 3: long time here. Laden they brought the fast Track legislation

426
00:28:30,493 --> 00:28:35,213
Speaker 3: and in March twenty twenty four. I think we're now

427
00:28:35,253 --> 00:28:39,453
Speaker 3: in July twenty twenty five and we've got seven committees

428
00:28:40,773 --> 00:28:44,853
Speaker 3: expert panels appointed. We might be the eighth one, but

429
00:28:44,893 --> 00:28:47,653
Speaker 3: none of them are anywhere never making the decision before

430
00:28:47,893 --> 00:28:50,813
Speaker 3: September October this year, and ours is likely to be

431
00:28:51,013 --> 00:28:51,493
Speaker 3: next year.

432
00:28:51,533 --> 00:28:53,853
Speaker 2: All right, So let me just check on something. These

433
00:28:53,893 --> 00:29:00,253
Speaker 2: thirty six ewis were invited along is to influence the

434
00:29:00,293 --> 00:29:08,013
Speaker 2: selection of the panel exper panel. Correct, So it's a

435
00:29:08,053 --> 00:29:09,253
Speaker 2: pub meeting then.

436
00:29:10,573 --> 00:29:13,773
Speaker 3: No, it was by invitation, but it is public. It's

437
00:29:13,773 --> 00:29:18,453
Speaker 3: all you could attend, but you couldn't participate. The participants

438
00:29:18,573 --> 00:29:21,253
Speaker 3: and there were a lot of them. We all got

439
00:29:21,293 --> 00:29:23,733
Speaker 3: an opportunity to present like as was the applicant, and

440
00:29:23,733 --> 00:29:27,573
Speaker 3: then they all followed with their various submissions, and then

441
00:29:27,613 --> 00:29:29,813
Speaker 3: we got the opportunity for a few minutes at the

442
00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:34,373
Speaker 3: end of summer, but no, and the public you could

443
00:29:34,373 --> 00:29:40,573
Speaker 3: watch it on live stream, but you couldn't participate or interrupt.

444
00:29:40,693 --> 00:29:45,653
Speaker 2: Okay, So from here, having had that first panel meeting

445
00:29:46,413 --> 00:29:49,253
Speaker 2: or establishing it, what's the procedure.

446
00:29:50,293 --> 00:29:53,613
Speaker 3: Well, now the panel convenor goes away, and she said

447
00:29:53,653 --> 00:29:56,093
Speaker 3: she's going to issue a couple of minutes relating to

448
00:29:56,413 --> 00:30:00,453
Speaker 3: those proceedings, and I think she gave a fairly strong

449
00:30:00,493 --> 00:30:06,933
Speaker 3: indication that she'll announce our panel makeup by the end

450
00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:11,173
Speaker 3: of this month, around about three weeks time, and then

451
00:30:11,533 --> 00:30:14,813
Speaker 3: the expert panel takes over and they actually start to

452
00:30:14,853 --> 00:30:15,813
Speaker 3: assess our project.

453
00:30:16,813 --> 00:30:19,733
Speaker 2: How many on the panel we don't know.

454
00:30:19,973 --> 00:30:22,853
Speaker 3: The panels, some of three, some are four, and some

455
00:30:22,933 --> 00:30:25,173
Speaker 3: of five. The only mining one that's gone through so

456
00:30:25,293 --> 00:30:30,893
Speaker 3: far is Yhi North Oceanic Golds, and they've got a

457
00:30:30,933 --> 00:30:34,253
Speaker 3: five member panel, and they had the same panel convenor

458
00:30:34,333 --> 00:30:36,773
Speaker 3: as us, and the same language he was using with

459
00:30:36,853 --> 00:30:40,093
Speaker 3: us is in her decision for them, and so I

460
00:30:40,333 --> 00:30:44,973
Speaker 3: suspect we'll get five. We don't need five. I think

461
00:30:45,173 --> 00:30:49,293
Speaker 3: three experts could easily deal with our application.

462
00:30:49,373 --> 00:30:53,573
Speaker 2: Where will they come from? We don't know what sort

463
00:30:53,573 --> 00:30:55,773
Speaker 2: of background history.

464
00:30:57,413 --> 00:31:02,213
Speaker 3: Okay, they always appear to want somebody such as a

465
00:31:02,293 --> 00:31:06,493
Speaker 3: retired judge to chair these things. I am not sure

466
00:31:06,533 --> 00:31:10,133
Speaker 3: that that's always best, but anyway, they have a retired judge,

467
00:31:10,533 --> 00:31:13,893
Speaker 3: and then we would like somebody with some mining expertise.

468
00:31:13,933 --> 00:31:16,493
Speaker 3: This time, we've never had anybody with mining expertise on

469
00:31:16,533 --> 00:31:19,213
Speaker 3: any panel, and there's a lot of them around, including

470
00:31:19,533 --> 00:31:23,453
Speaker 3: very senior and knowledgeable people in the mining industry. Have

471
00:31:23,533 --> 00:31:26,533
Speaker 3: dealt with epas here and a news and in Australia

472
00:31:27,013 --> 00:31:31,093
Speaker 3: on large mining projects that are familiar with these processes.

473
00:31:31,293 --> 00:31:34,053
Speaker 3: We would like somebody like that. The EE. We wanted

474
00:31:34,093 --> 00:31:36,973
Speaker 3: two EE panel members on and they must be local,

475
00:31:37,013 --> 00:31:38,853
Speaker 3: they said, because they are the only ones that understand

476
00:31:38,893 --> 00:31:42,413
Speaker 3: about t ganger locally. It couldn't be from anywhere else.

477
00:31:43,013 --> 00:31:48,373
Speaker 3: So and then you'll need a planner and on it goes.

478
00:31:48,493 --> 00:31:52,573
Speaker 3: So it makes it very difficult. And what we would

479
00:31:52,613 --> 00:31:56,013
Speaker 3: say is the E we want their representatives on there.

480
00:31:56,973 --> 00:32:01,053
Speaker 3: Well we say it's not about representation. TTR doesn't have

481
00:32:01,333 --> 00:32:04,773
Speaker 3: representative on the panel. It's about experts and they should

482
00:32:04,813 --> 00:32:08,253
Speaker 3: be knowledgeable experts in Ta Cager and preferably from out

483
00:32:08,453 --> 00:32:10,693
Speaker 3: side the district, so they are independent.

484
00:32:11,413 --> 00:32:15,453
Speaker 2: Yes, So the headline I'm looking at full speed ahead

485
00:32:15,453 --> 00:32:17,933
Speaker 2: for fast track projects is a bit misleading.

486
00:32:19,373 --> 00:32:25,093
Speaker 3: Well, I could certainly do, to use Shane Jones's phraseology

487
00:32:25,693 --> 00:32:29,973
Speaker 3: turbo charging in its own right that the wheels need

488
00:32:30,013 --> 00:32:32,533
Speaker 3: to be greased. But this is where the bureaucracy can't

489
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:37,093
Speaker 3: help themselves. The EWI groups wanted us within about a

490
00:32:37,133 --> 00:32:39,573
Speaker 3: six month time frame to add a six month time

491
00:32:39,573 --> 00:32:47,253
Speaker 3: frame to have workshops to assess cultural matters and ticking.

492
00:32:48,013 --> 00:32:49,333
Speaker 3: They wanted six months.

493
00:32:50,253 --> 00:32:51,813
Speaker 2: I've got to ask I've got to ask you a

494
00:32:51,813 --> 00:32:56,413
Speaker 2: personal question. Yes, we haven't discussed all of your background,

495
00:32:56,733 --> 00:33:02,413
Speaker 2: but you are a key we Yes, you have property here,

496
00:33:02,893 --> 00:33:08,453
Speaker 2: you spend time here. Yes, so you help fight wildfires here. Yes,

497
00:33:09,773 --> 00:33:13,373
Speaker 2: but you are also domiciled in Perth, which is which

498
00:33:13,413 --> 00:33:17,613
Speaker 2: is as you said to me before we before we

499
00:33:17,693 --> 00:33:19,893
Speaker 2: began recording as the mining capital.

500
00:33:19,533 --> 00:33:20,093
Speaker 3: To the world.

501
00:33:21,733 --> 00:33:26,293
Speaker 2: Why are you persisting with this for as long as

502
00:33:26,293 --> 00:33:29,333
Speaker 2: you are, going back to twenty thirteen and then being

503
00:33:29,373 --> 00:33:32,293
Speaker 2: where you I've looked, I mean, let me digress momentarily,

504
00:33:32,293 --> 00:33:36,773
Speaker 2: but it's attached. I looked at how much you've spent

505
00:33:37,253 --> 00:33:41,413
Speaker 2: as best I could in on this on this project.

506
00:33:41,693 --> 00:33:44,693
Speaker 2: I looked at we haven't even we haven't even mentioned

507
00:33:44,693 --> 00:33:50,853
Speaker 2: the word vanadium yet. But I looked at the value

508
00:33:50,893 --> 00:33:52,853
Speaker 2: of that, and I couldn't quite work it out. I

509
00:33:52,853 --> 00:33:55,613
Speaker 2: was trying to trying to use a system that I

510
00:33:55,693 --> 00:33:59,573
Speaker 2: found online to convert the value of the current rate

511
00:33:59,613 --> 00:34:06,453
Speaker 2: of value of vanadium in terms of gold and I

512
00:34:06,573 --> 00:34:09,573
Speaker 2: and I couldn't do it. So why don't you? As

513
00:34:09,613 --> 00:34:13,693
Speaker 2: I progress here is what's the current price or value

514
00:34:13,773 --> 00:34:14,613
Speaker 2: of vanadium?

515
00:34:15,453 --> 00:34:18,893
Speaker 3: It's around about five or six dollars US a pound,

516
00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:23,733
Speaker 3: and we've got about eleven pounds and each ton of concentrate,

517
00:34:24,613 --> 00:34:28,333
Speaker 3: so that would be about fifty or sixty dollars or

518
00:34:28,333 --> 00:34:32,933
Speaker 3: about one hundred dollars KIWI worth in each ton of concentrate.

519
00:34:33,693 --> 00:34:37,453
Speaker 3: We have one hundred dollars US of iron ore to

520
00:34:37,493 --> 00:34:40,853
Speaker 3: start with, and then that's added, but we won't recover

521
00:34:40,933 --> 00:34:44,293
Speaker 3: all that late and so we get about seventy seven

522
00:34:44,373 --> 00:34:48,173
Speaker 3: percent of that recovered in our metallurgical process. So we

523
00:34:48,213 --> 00:34:52,413
Speaker 3: wind up with around about seven or eight pounds of it.

524
00:34:53,053 --> 00:34:56,733
Speaker 3: And what we've done is we've said that we will

525
00:34:56,773 --> 00:34:59,213
Speaker 3: only get paid for half of that. The other half

526
00:35:00,093 --> 00:35:02,733
Speaker 3: it would cost to get us get it out on

527
00:35:02,773 --> 00:35:06,813
Speaker 3: the metallurgical process. So it comes it comes down to

528
00:35:06,893 --> 00:35:10,053
Speaker 3: adding thirty or forty dollars to a ton of concentrate,

529
00:35:10,253 --> 00:35:13,973
Speaker 3: which is very valuable of course, fifty five million tons

530
00:35:14,093 --> 00:35:20,053
Speaker 3: of concentrated year, and you add thirty dollars US to that,

531
00:35:20,893 --> 00:35:23,173
Speaker 3: let's say considerable contribution.

532
00:35:24,373 --> 00:35:28,813
Speaker 2: Indeed, I saw somewhere in this, in this maneuvering of mine,

533
00:35:29,213 --> 00:35:32,373
Speaker 2: I saw a venue of fourteen, eight hundred and sixty

534
00:35:32,373 --> 00:35:35,733
Speaker 2: seven dollars and sixteen cents that was of me a

535
00:35:35,813 --> 00:35:38,973
Speaker 2: couple of months back that's probably a ton or well

536
00:35:39,573 --> 00:35:41,613
Speaker 2: that's what I thought, but there was no indication, so

537
00:35:41,773 --> 00:35:43,933
Speaker 2: that questions now answered, right.

538
00:35:43,813 --> 00:35:47,733
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's we also have about one hundred and

539
00:35:47,773 --> 00:35:51,453
Speaker 3: fifty five dollars worth of titanium and each ton of

540
00:35:51,493 --> 00:35:54,413
Speaker 3: concentrate over and above iron ore in vanadium. We're not

541
00:35:54,453 --> 00:35:57,453
Speaker 3: counting any of that at the moment because we need

542
00:35:57,493 --> 00:36:02,373
Speaker 3: to ensure and we report to the Australian Stock Exchange,

543
00:36:02,373 --> 00:36:04,213
Speaker 3: and I'm allowed to report the iron ore and the

544
00:36:04,293 --> 00:36:06,813
Speaker 3: vanadium because we know we can sell that and it's

545
00:36:06,893 --> 00:36:10,893
Speaker 3: currently exports that from New Zealand but also from Africa

546
00:36:10,933 --> 00:36:14,413
Speaker 3: and Australia that are exporting and getting credits for those,

547
00:36:14,493 --> 00:36:16,973
Speaker 3: so we know we can do that. Titanium is a

548
00:36:17,013 --> 00:36:20,133
Speaker 3: bit different and we're not sure that we can get

549
00:36:20,133 --> 00:36:23,053
Speaker 3: credits for it yet, so on the edge of being conservative,

550
00:36:23,733 --> 00:36:26,293
Speaker 3: we're not considering that. But you may have seen a

551
00:36:26,293 --> 00:36:32,053
Speaker 3: headline in the papers yesterday where it's potentially the titanium

552
00:36:32,093 --> 00:36:34,533
Speaker 3: credits could double the value of this project, and the

553
00:36:34,573 --> 00:36:39,293
Speaker 3: project already exports nearly a billion dollars worth a concentrated year.

554
00:36:39,773 --> 00:36:45,613
Speaker 3: It will be New Zealand's eleventh largest export income earner

555
00:36:45,893 --> 00:36:49,733
Speaker 3: foreign exchange earner in its own right by itself.

556
00:36:50,133 --> 00:36:53,693
Speaker 2: Okay, so after the diversion, let me go back to

557
00:36:53,893 --> 00:36:57,013
Speaker 2: what my question was was going to be all with

558
00:36:57,173 --> 00:37:00,773
Speaker 2: all the millions that you have spent on this project?

559
00:37:01,333 --> 00:37:02,453
Speaker 2: Is millions?

560
00:37:03,013 --> 00:37:03,253
Speaker 3: Yes?

561
00:37:03,293 --> 00:37:05,573
Speaker 2: And more millions yes? Do you want to throw us

562
00:37:05,613 --> 00:37:06,013
Speaker 2: a number?

563
00:37:06,893 --> 00:37:10,173
Speaker 3: I'm responsible for over thirty million personally.

564
00:37:10,253 --> 00:37:12,773
Speaker 2: Okay, why are you persisting?

565
00:37:14,413 --> 00:37:17,333
Speaker 3: Because it's a long story and I make it as

566
00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:20,413
Speaker 3: brief as possible. I was asked to invest in this

567
00:37:20,493 --> 00:37:27,173
Speaker 3: project in two thousand and eight by the individuals that

568
00:37:27,333 --> 00:37:31,533
Speaker 3: started the project from Rio Tinto and I Luca Mineral

569
00:37:31,573 --> 00:37:35,933
Speaker 3: Sands in Australia that was Zia Pedigree, and they came

570
00:37:35,973 --> 00:37:39,013
Speaker 3: to me and I'd made quite a lot. I was

571
00:37:39,093 --> 00:37:41,453
Speaker 3: very fortunate and lucky, if you like. But I made

572
00:37:41,453 --> 00:37:45,933
Speaker 3: my own luck out of Summit, which was originally the

573
00:37:45,973 --> 00:37:50,893
Speaker 3: New Zealand company, and I said that I wouldn't invest

574
00:37:51,573 --> 00:37:54,733
Speaker 3: in it because I said, the approvals regime in New

575
00:37:54,813 --> 00:37:59,813
Speaker 3: Zealand is appalling and it's too high risk. They said no, no, no,

576
00:38:00,093 --> 00:38:05,293
Speaker 3: everything's changed and the government is very supportive and they

577
00:38:05,373 --> 00:38:08,493
Speaker 3: want the offshore iron stands to be looked at in

578
00:38:08,533 --> 00:38:12,453
Speaker 3: New Zealand and In fact, in twenty twenty three, Ministry

579
00:38:12,493 --> 00:38:16,333
Speaker 3: Business and Innovation and Employment Mimbe briefed the incoming Minister's

580
00:38:16,813 --> 00:38:21,293
Speaker 3: Resource minister here when they came into government and suggested

581
00:38:21,333 --> 00:38:25,213
Speaker 3: that there's nearly at least four hundred billion, four hundred

582
00:38:25,253 --> 00:38:31,173
Speaker 3: billion dollars worth of Ironstein's off the west coast of Taranaki.

583
00:38:31,333 --> 00:38:36,133
Speaker 3: It should be developed. But going back, I came to

584
00:38:36,173 --> 00:38:39,933
Speaker 3: New Zealand and then met with all the senior ministers

585
00:38:39,973 --> 00:38:42,853
Speaker 3: in the John Key government and Mimby I did my

586
00:38:42,933 --> 00:38:47,013
Speaker 3: own due diligence and I said, I've made a bit

587
00:38:47,053 --> 00:38:49,653
Speaker 3: of money and I'd like to see New Zealand develop

588
00:38:49,693 --> 00:38:54,093
Speaker 3: its natural resources and its mining industry. And what's going

589
00:38:54,133 --> 00:38:56,853
Speaker 3: on in the past it doesn't help, and it said

590
00:38:56,893 --> 00:39:01,773
Speaker 3: he doesn't encourage foreign investment and New Zealand short of

591
00:39:01,853 --> 00:39:06,373
Speaker 3: expertise such as mine in taking major projects and major

592
00:39:06,413 --> 00:39:09,333
Speaker 3: mining companies forward. I said, I would like to make

593
00:39:09,373 --> 00:39:12,253
Speaker 3: a contribution if I'm assured that things are okay here

594
00:39:12,333 --> 00:39:15,533
Speaker 3: and that we can get through this. I was assured

595
00:39:15,693 --> 00:39:18,373
Speaker 3: by the Key government and ministers who I can name

596
00:39:18,453 --> 00:39:21,493
Speaker 3: them if you want, but we'll just move on, they

597
00:39:21,533 --> 00:39:25,973
Speaker 3: assured me. That we would love to see those iron

598
00:39:26,053 --> 00:39:29,893
Speaker 3: sands explored and developed. So we pegged the first tenements

599
00:39:29,933 --> 00:39:32,773
Speaker 3: and we were closely followed by the giants Rio, Tintome,

600
00:39:33,693 --> 00:39:38,573
Speaker 3: Sino Steel and FMG, and we had to hold coast

601
00:39:38,613 --> 00:39:42,653
Speaker 3: peaked from manic Our Harbor to Cavity and TTR was

602
00:39:42,693 --> 00:39:45,293
Speaker 3: in there with about a quarter of it, but we reckon.

603
00:39:45,373 --> 00:39:48,373
Speaker 3: We got them first and we got the best. And

604
00:39:48,973 --> 00:39:51,373
Speaker 3: the government assured me that not only that they would

605
00:39:51,373 --> 00:39:56,373
Speaker 3: bring in the e Z legislation so that if you

606
00:39:56,413 --> 00:40:01,933
Speaker 3: find something in the zen, we will have resource consenting

607
00:40:01,973 --> 00:40:07,653
Speaker 3: regime out there that's permissive and avoids crema, and that

608
00:40:07,773 --> 00:40:10,133
Speaker 3: we know the ray needs fixing up and it's all

609
00:40:10,133 --> 00:40:13,373
Speaker 3: too difficult, but we're going to fix up the urma.

610
00:40:13,693 --> 00:40:16,573
Speaker 3: But we'll have this clean, fresh legislation out And you said,

611
00:40:16,973 --> 00:40:21,133
Speaker 3: which you're able to go for. So I invested. We

612
00:40:21,253 --> 00:40:27,453
Speaker 3: had major private equity funds from the US invest and

613
00:40:27,933 --> 00:40:33,933
Speaker 3: we spent about sixty million doing over and beyond what

614
00:40:33,973 --> 00:40:36,133
Speaker 3: we were required to do out there, because I said,

615
00:40:36,653 --> 00:40:39,653
Speaker 3: we've got to do more. We not just going to

616
00:40:39,693 --> 00:40:44,533
Speaker 3: turn up at the doorstep of the approvers with the

617
00:40:44,533 --> 00:40:48,173
Speaker 3: bare minimum and the best available information. I said, let's

618
00:40:48,173 --> 00:40:50,253
Speaker 3: do this right and show what New Zealand can do

619
00:40:50,333 --> 00:40:53,253
Speaker 3: and what the mining industry can do in terms of

620
00:40:53,693 --> 00:40:58,013
Speaker 3: protecting the environment, researching the environment, putting a good economic

621
00:40:58,053 --> 00:41:03,653
Speaker 3: case together, putting the whole project engineeringly in good shape

622
00:41:03,973 --> 00:41:09,213
Speaker 3: so that it's not an experiment or a ten. We

623
00:41:09,253 --> 00:41:14,013
Speaker 3: bought in sea bed mining expertise, over thirty years of it,

624
00:41:14,053 --> 00:41:18,093
Speaker 3: from Deba's Marine in Southwest Africa. We bought an IFC

625
00:41:19,013 --> 00:41:23,373
Speaker 3: ROYALFC from Rotterdam who have been drenching offshore for three

626
00:41:23,493 --> 00:41:27,573
Speaker 3: hundred and forty two forty four years or something. We

627
00:41:27,613 --> 00:41:31,413
Speaker 3: bought in the experts. We then invested all these all

628
00:41:31,493 --> 00:41:36,573
Speaker 3: this money and then we got into the Shenanigans of

629
00:41:36,693 --> 00:41:40,133
Speaker 3: the court process, which I explained earlier. So why do

630
00:41:40,213 --> 00:41:42,333
Speaker 3: I keep going? I'll tell you why I keep going.

631
00:41:43,533 --> 00:41:46,973
Speaker 3: I have investors who are relying on me to take

632
00:41:47,053 --> 00:41:50,733
Speaker 3: this forward and give them a return on their investment,

633
00:41:50,853 --> 00:41:54,173
Speaker 3: and they deserve it. We were encouraged by the government

634
00:41:54,173 --> 00:41:57,173
Speaker 3: at all stages to do this, so we got on

635
00:41:57,293 --> 00:42:00,373
Speaker 3: with it. We didn't come in and half asked. We

636
00:42:00,493 --> 00:42:05,093
Speaker 3: did what we needed to do to deliver a successful

637
00:42:05,133 --> 00:42:09,773
Speaker 3: project and at the same time protect the environment and

638
00:42:10,373 --> 00:42:15,933
Speaker 3: take account of local cultures, custodianship and existing interests. At

639
00:42:15,973 --> 00:42:19,893
Speaker 3: all times. We consulted with all the councils. We consulted

640
00:42:19,933 --> 00:42:23,253
Speaker 3: with all the recreational fishes, we commercial fishing, the oil

641
00:42:23,293 --> 00:42:28,173
Speaker 3: and gas industry. We went to everybody, and we have

642
00:42:28,413 --> 00:42:31,853
Speaker 3: a great project. It's a great project for New Zealand. Now,

643
00:42:31,893 --> 00:42:35,453
Speaker 3: why would I walk away from that and disappoint my

644
00:42:35,573 --> 00:42:43,613
Speaker 3: investors just because some militant international eco terrorists come along

645
00:42:43,693 --> 00:42:47,773
Speaker 3: and say we don't like you and we don't want you.

646
00:42:48,333 --> 00:42:51,373
Speaker 3: They also don't want They don't want oil and gas,

647
00:42:51,533 --> 00:42:54,893
Speaker 3: they don't want coal, they don't want mining of any sort,

648
00:42:55,293 --> 00:42:58,933
Speaker 3: and they particularly don't want seabed mining. Well, I say

649
00:42:58,973 --> 00:43:02,933
Speaker 3: to them, what are you using? You guys are in

650
00:43:03,293 --> 00:43:07,693
Speaker 3: living in the medals age and you want you're elitist

651
00:43:08,693 --> 00:43:10,773
Speaker 3: and you're basically run by a bunch of lawyers who

652
00:43:10,773 --> 00:43:17,093
Speaker 3: are taking all the funds and with their snouts in

653
00:43:17,173 --> 00:43:22,813
Speaker 3: the trough, going nowhere, And it's economic vandalism, you're preaching

654
00:43:23,493 --> 00:43:28,173
Speaker 3: and economic self harm for the South Taranaki region because

655
00:43:28,213 --> 00:43:32,933
Speaker 3: it's a depressed area and we're offering an alternative and

656
00:43:33,093 --> 00:43:37,613
Speaker 3: at the same time that will develop their culture. And

657
00:43:38,653 --> 00:43:41,933
Speaker 3: expand their knowledge of the marine environment and how it

658
00:43:42,333 --> 00:43:43,613
Speaker 3: is really out there.

659
00:43:43,733 --> 00:43:46,733
Speaker 2: Then I want to quote you from an article that

660
00:43:46,813 --> 00:43:50,613
Speaker 2: you wrote published in The Herald in twenty two. I

661
00:43:50,693 --> 00:43:56,813
Speaker 2: have to admire Debbie and Nariwa Packer's passion and emotion already.

662
00:43:56,853 --> 00:44:00,293
Speaker 2: I think you're being bold, as evidence in her recent

663
00:44:00,333 --> 00:44:03,253
Speaker 2: commentary on her Private Members bill calling for seabed mining

664
00:44:03,293 --> 00:44:07,733
Speaker 2: in New Zealand to be banned. Unfortunately, her passionate claims

665
00:44:07,813 --> 00:44:11,533
Speaker 2: are not by the science and engineering. Her retric is

666
00:44:11,573 --> 00:44:15,093
Speaker 2: alarmist and flies on the face of the extensive expert evidence,

667
00:44:15,533 --> 00:44:20,533
Speaker 2: scientific engineering, marine research and observational data presented to the

668
00:44:20,653 --> 00:44:26,453
Speaker 2: Environmental Protection Authority to have trans Tasman Resources TTR marine

669
00:44:26,533 --> 00:44:32,333
Speaker 2: consents considered and granted in twenty seventeen. It's not just

670
00:44:32,453 --> 00:44:39,053
Speaker 2: the I know that the green mob are behind and backing,

671
00:44:39,973 --> 00:44:44,973
Speaker 2: but there is EWE objection to it too. Is there

672
00:44:45,053 --> 00:44:50,613
Speaker 2: any support from anybody in EWE land in Taranaki?

673
00:44:51,653 --> 00:44:55,733
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for that. I stand by every word of

674
00:44:55,893 --> 00:44:59,973
Speaker 3: that quote. That's the first thing. The second thing is

675
00:45:00,013 --> 00:45:05,053
Speaker 3: that ms Naware Packer and a cohorts are bullies and

676
00:45:05,173 --> 00:45:10,933
Speaker 3: what they do is they insist did all EWI take

677
00:45:10,973 --> 00:45:15,653
Speaker 3: the stand that she promotes in a rhetoric which she promotes.

678
00:45:16,973 --> 00:45:23,053
Speaker 3: We have endeavored to engage with all EWI and our

679
00:45:23,093 --> 00:45:26,453
Speaker 3: feedback is that a lot of them in fact do

680
00:45:26,653 --> 00:45:30,853
Speaker 3: support what we're doing. We engaged an EWE earlder from

681
00:45:30,893 --> 00:45:36,373
Speaker 3: Taranaki to do our engagement, to undertake our engagement, and

682
00:45:36,453 --> 00:45:39,693
Speaker 3: I would also say that her stand flies in the

683
00:45:39,693 --> 00:45:43,333
Speaker 3: face of her own far now half of which a

684
00:45:43,413 --> 00:45:47,973
Speaker 3: fly and fly out in mining in Australia stand. There's

685
00:45:48,213 --> 00:45:51,333
Speaker 3: just been some disquiet from some of them about her stand,

686
00:45:51,653 --> 00:45:57,373
Speaker 3: but she won't allow any other statements, and the other

687
00:45:57,493 --> 00:46:03,053
Speaker 3: EWE will not come out against miss Packer publicly. Recently

688
00:46:03,093 --> 00:46:05,173
Speaker 3: we have had meetings with EWE groups and we've had

689
00:46:05,173 --> 00:46:07,973
Speaker 3: some very positive feedback and one in particular which I

690
00:46:08,053 --> 00:46:13,013
Speaker 3: refer from naming but I can off air, but came

691
00:46:13,093 --> 00:46:15,093
Speaker 3: back and one of the major EE groups and so

692
00:46:15,173 --> 00:46:17,853
Speaker 3: called against has said that in light of what you

693
00:46:18,133 --> 00:46:22,413
Speaker 3: have just presented to me, Allen, we have never been

694
00:46:22,453 --> 00:46:24,813
Speaker 3: told us before, we have never been told the truth

695
00:46:24,853 --> 00:46:29,053
Speaker 3: about the project, and we should be reconsidering our position.

696
00:46:29,733 --> 00:46:32,413
Speaker 2: Is that likely to be in progress, yes, but it'll.

697
00:46:32,253 --> 00:46:36,053
Speaker 3: Get hammered down. You do you understand how two party

698
00:46:36,093 --> 00:46:40,893
Speaker 3: mara works and what goes on here and you know, look,

699
00:46:42,333 --> 00:46:44,653
Speaker 3: let's look at it like this. Last year we had

700
00:46:44,693 --> 00:46:48,413
Speaker 3: two bills in Parliament, one from the Mary Party wanting

701
00:46:48,453 --> 00:46:51,933
Speaker 3: to ban seabed mining and one from Eugenie Sage wanting

702
00:46:51,973 --> 00:46:57,333
Speaker 3: to basically banned mining everywhere but particularly in the conservation

703
00:46:57,413 --> 00:47:01,413
Speaker 3: of state. I mean. And then she Eugenie Sage, as

704
00:47:01,453 --> 00:47:05,093
Speaker 3: a tokenism was given an inquiry into seabed mining which

705
00:47:05,093 --> 00:47:09,013
Speaker 3: he chaired, and wouldn't let me present my information. Refused

706
00:47:09,053 --> 00:47:12,493
Speaker 3: point blank to accept the information I gave her on

707
00:47:13,373 --> 00:47:18,733
Speaker 3: seabed mining and TTRS project off short South Taranaki. She

708
00:47:18,933 --> 00:47:24,813
Speaker 3: refused to accept that information and said we're not a EPA, Allen,

709
00:47:25,293 --> 00:47:27,973
Speaker 3: take your information away, We're an inquiry and to see

710
00:47:27,973 --> 00:47:29,733
Speaker 3: bed mining and went on with her own rhetoric.

711
00:47:30,213 --> 00:47:33,653
Speaker 2: Is that lack of intelligence? I'll give you an alternative here,

712
00:47:33,973 --> 00:47:40,813
Speaker 2: lack of intelligence? Or is it something else like power

713
00:47:40,853 --> 00:47:43,733
Speaker 2: and greed? On a personal basis?

714
00:47:44,413 --> 00:47:49,053
Speaker 3: Never ever think that these people, our opponents, have a

715
00:47:49,173 --> 00:47:55,133
Speaker 3: lack of intelligence. They're very well resourced, they're very intelligent people,

716
00:47:56,373 --> 00:48:01,413
Speaker 3: but they have a religious zeal about where they're at.

717
00:48:01,533 --> 00:48:04,573
Speaker 3: And Eugenie Sage of course comes from Greenpeace and Forest

718
00:48:04,653 --> 00:48:07,613
Speaker 3: and Bird and Forest and Bird of course where it

719
00:48:07,693 --> 00:48:09,733
Speaker 3: used to be Royal Forest and Burbert have become so

720
00:48:10,293 --> 00:48:13,893
Speaker 3: left wing activists that they lost the royal monika. It

721
00:48:14,053 --> 00:48:16,733
Speaker 3: was taken off them. And think about that for a moment,

722
00:48:16,773 --> 00:48:20,173
Speaker 3: and when you want, you hear King Charles and state

723
00:48:20,293 --> 00:48:23,133
Speaker 3: about the environment and his position. They've got to be

724
00:48:23,173 --> 00:48:29,893
Speaker 3: pretty bad to lose their monica. But no, that's that's

725
00:48:29,893 --> 00:48:33,173
Speaker 3: their mantra. That's where they're coming from, and they're not

726
00:48:33,573 --> 00:48:37,933
Speaker 3: going to have their heads turned by common sense facts.

727
00:48:38,653 --> 00:48:41,413
Speaker 3: It's ideology. It's the ideology.

728
00:48:41,093 --> 00:48:46,293
Speaker 2: Can ideology in this well? Can ideologies vary? But can

729
00:48:46,333 --> 00:48:51,373
Speaker 2: ideology be brought? Yes, it is how much are you

730
00:48:51,453 --> 00:48:52,253
Speaker 2: prepared to offer?

731
00:48:53,733 --> 00:48:58,413
Speaker 3: We're not prepared to offer them anything upfront for nothing.

732
00:48:58,653 --> 00:49:03,653
Speaker 3: That's just bribery and corruption, and I stay a long

733
00:49:03,693 --> 00:49:06,133
Speaker 3: way away from that. What we are prepared to offer

734
00:49:06,173 --> 00:49:09,733
Speaker 3: them is open and full partici patient, and we've actually

735
00:49:09,733 --> 00:49:13,133
Speaker 3: put in our conditions that they get preferential opportunities and

736
00:49:13,213 --> 00:49:16,413
Speaker 3: contracting and employment. We would like them to undertake the

737
00:49:16,493 --> 00:49:23,813
Speaker 3: marine monitoring which reports and checking on our project, and

738
00:49:23,853 --> 00:49:26,693
Speaker 3: that reports all to the EBA, not the TTR. It

739
00:49:26,733 --> 00:49:29,813
Speaker 3: reports to the EPA, and if we're exceeding any of

740
00:49:30,053 --> 00:49:34,493
Speaker 3: our consent requirements or are causing damage to reefs or

741
00:49:34,493 --> 00:49:37,813
Speaker 3: the marine environment or fish or Colimaana or the beaches,

742
00:49:38,293 --> 00:49:40,813
Speaker 3: we've got to stop. And we can only recommence when

743
00:49:40,813 --> 00:49:43,493
Speaker 3: we can demonstrate them we won't cause that damage. By

744
00:49:43,533 --> 00:49:47,293
Speaker 3: the way, we won't be causing any damage, and that's

745
00:49:48,253 --> 00:49:51,973
Speaker 3: well presented in our application material. But we want to

746
00:49:52,053 --> 00:49:55,613
Speaker 3: work with them. And how you change that, how you

747
00:49:55,653 --> 00:50:00,133
Speaker 3: buy them if you lie, is by experience and participation

748
00:50:00,693 --> 00:50:06,493
Speaker 3: and working together, not by division and racial division particularly

749
00:50:07,013 --> 00:50:10,573
Speaker 3: and privilege, but working together, and that's how I would

750
00:50:10,733 --> 00:50:15,933
Speaker 3: want to progress. They did come to us originally and

751
00:50:17,013 --> 00:50:20,053
Speaker 3: showed quite a strong interest in investing in the project

752
00:50:20,053 --> 00:50:24,693
Speaker 3: back in about twenty ten to the twenty twelve. We're

753
00:50:24,733 --> 00:50:31,293
Speaker 3: not sure what happened, but something snapped, and I've been

754
00:50:31,813 --> 00:50:34,093
Speaker 3: strong strident opponents innocence.

755
00:50:34,773 --> 00:50:37,013
Speaker 2: Well, I think that was a brilliant answer and it

756
00:50:37,133 --> 00:50:41,533
Speaker 2: was nihon perfect as far as most people will be concerned,

757
00:50:41,973 --> 00:50:44,333
Speaker 2: working with people are far better than fighting with.

758
00:50:44,333 --> 00:50:51,173
Speaker 3: Them, far better. And we're one nation, are we really still?

759
00:50:51,973 --> 00:50:54,773
Speaker 3: I think you headed into a political debate, which I'd

760
00:50:54,813 --> 00:50:59,053
Speaker 3: love to have, but perhaps for another time later. But

761
00:50:59,613 --> 00:51:05,413
Speaker 3: I have my misgivings, and particularly living overseas a bit.

762
00:51:05,613 --> 00:51:09,333
Speaker 3: I come back, I'm dismayed and horrified. What's going on here?

763
00:51:09,733 --> 00:51:13,373
Speaker 2: Well, I was heading in this direction a little earlier

764
00:51:13,453 --> 00:51:17,533
Speaker 2: and something happened technically or something, and I never got

765
00:51:17,573 --> 00:51:19,613
Speaker 2: I never got through with it. But what I was

766
00:51:19,653 --> 00:51:22,533
Speaker 2: going to say to you, in the form of a

767
00:51:22,613 --> 00:51:27,493
Speaker 2: question at the time, was referring to the number of

768
00:51:27,533 --> 00:51:32,133
Speaker 2: people fleeing the country, and I'm talking specifically about I

769
00:51:32,133 --> 00:51:35,453
Speaker 2: think I think you may have mentioned qualified people, et cetera,

770
00:51:35,573 --> 00:51:41,133
Speaker 2: who can actually achieve things, something along those lines. Those

771
00:51:41,253 --> 00:51:46,973
Speaker 2: people have almost on mass, decided that there's no future here,

772
00:51:47,213 --> 00:51:49,613
Speaker 2: that they can't they can't achieve what they want, They

773
00:51:49,613 --> 00:51:52,493
Speaker 2: can't get where they'd like to be. Be it, be

774
00:51:52,613 --> 00:51:55,453
Speaker 2: it something that you would accept or I would accept

775
00:51:55,533 --> 00:51:59,573
Speaker 2: or not. They just want out because they want But

776
00:51:59,693 --> 00:52:04,733
Speaker 2: I saw this morning, if I can divert I saw

777
00:52:04,773 --> 00:52:09,093
Speaker 2: this morning something that I'm looking on looking for it.

778
00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:12,053
Speaker 2: There's something to do with Australia having no.

779
00:52:12,133 --> 00:52:16,093
Speaker 3: Future Australia or New Zealand Australia.

780
00:52:17,293 --> 00:52:19,773
Speaker 2: And it was by somebody I know. Well, you want

781
00:52:19,773 --> 00:52:21,253
Speaker 2: to give me a quick comment on that.

782
00:52:22,693 --> 00:52:26,933
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I see is a demographic. Let's leaving New

783
00:52:27,053 --> 00:52:34,733
Speaker 3: Zealand is twenty five to forty young families or singles.

784
00:52:35,373 --> 00:52:38,853
Speaker 3: They've got their skills, their trade or their university degrees.

785
00:52:39,373 --> 00:52:42,373
Speaker 3: They've started out and they see they're getting nowhere and

786
00:52:42,813 --> 00:52:47,293
Speaker 3: they see better opportunities. Perth is now New Zealand's third

787
00:52:47,373 --> 00:52:50,013
Speaker 3: or fourth largest city, with about one hundred and fifty

788
00:52:50,053 --> 00:52:54,213
Speaker 3: thousand Kiwis in it. They're doing well. They get over

789
00:52:54,253 --> 00:52:57,373
Speaker 3: there and they say, look, we're achieved here in six months,

790
00:52:57,413 --> 00:52:59,973
Speaker 3: which were taken us six years in New Zealand to achieve.

791
00:53:00,133 --> 00:53:03,093
Speaker 3: And of course, when you're thirty two with a young family,

792
00:53:03,893 --> 00:53:06,773
Speaker 3: if you can if you can chop six years off,

793
00:53:07,813 --> 00:53:10,653
Speaker 3: getting new home and your lifestyle together and a couple

794
00:53:10,693 --> 00:53:12,293
Speaker 3: of cars and the garage and the kids in a

795
00:53:12,293 --> 00:53:17,773
Speaker 3: good school and good healthcare around the corner, and you're

796
00:53:17,773 --> 00:53:22,053
Speaker 3: not spat on because you're in the mining industry, you

797
00:53:22,133 --> 00:53:27,573
Speaker 3: feel pretty good and you're getting ahead. They can fly

798
00:53:27,733 --> 00:53:31,013
Speaker 3: back on Air New Zealand anytime their life for a

799
00:53:31,053 --> 00:53:33,533
Speaker 3: few holidays and in fact mom and dad just love

800
00:53:33,613 --> 00:53:35,973
Speaker 3: to go to Berth and say we're off to see

801
00:53:36,013 --> 00:53:40,773
Speaker 3: the rankins and birth and they do. And what I

802
00:53:40,813 --> 00:53:44,573
Speaker 3: would say is that from what I've seen is that

803
00:53:47,093 --> 00:53:49,973
Speaker 3: there's places all around. And I'll go back to a

804
00:53:49,973 --> 00:53:56,173
Speaker 3: famous old quote which is not mine. It's attributable to

805
00:53:56,693 --> 00:54:02,173
Speaker 3: one Sir Robert Muldoon, who said that every Kiwi that

806
00:54:02,253 --> 00:54:06,653
Speaker 3: leaves New Zealand and goes to Australia raises the average

807
00:54:06,693 --> 00:54:08,093
Speaker 3: IQ of both nations.

808
00:54:08,773 --> 00:54:11,013
Speaker 2: You think there's enough of us well enough left? Should

809
00:54:11,053 --> 00:54:11,413
Speaker 2: I say?

810
00:54:12,213 --> 00:54:17,093
Speaker 3: I was getting back your original point.

811
00:54:17,733 --> 00:54:21,213
Speaker 2: I've found it. By the way, here's how it goes.

812
00:54:21,253 --> 00:54:24,333
Speaker 2: The economic outlook for Australia is bleak under a government

813
00:54:24,373 --> 00:54:27,493
Speaker 2: bereft of ideas and courage. It's been a while since

814
00:54:27,493 --> 00:54:30,253
Speaker 2: an Australian Prime minister remained upright long enough to take

815
00:54:30,293 --> 00:54:33,613
Speaker 2: off the training wheels, so we can be forgiven for

816
00:54:33,693 --> 00:54:37,493
Speaker 2: expecting something more substantial than the flim flam. The Prime

817
00:54:37,533 --> 00:54:40,653
Speaker 2: Minister offered the nation on Friday in what was billed

818
00:54:40,693 --> 00:54:44,213
Speaker 2: as a keynote speech his second term. Agender gray haired

819
00:54:44,253 --> 00:54:48,293
Speaker 2: readers will remember John Howard confidently striding back into office

820
00:54:48,613 --> 00:54:52,293
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight and striking a tax reform agreement

821
00:54:52,333 --> 00:54:57,413
Speaker 2: with the premiers as a prelude to introducing the gst YEP.

822
00:54:58,213 --> 00:55:01,413
Speaker 2: Some might recall Bob Hawk's Gleaming Eyes in nineteen eighty four,

823
00:55:01,573 --> 00:55:05,933
Speaker 2: eliminated with the zeal of a reformer pledging to reduce

824
00:55:06,013 --> 00:55:09,133
Speaker 2: government spending at lower labor costs to allow our businesses

825
00:55:09,493 --> 00:55:13,333
Speaker 2: the chance to make a profit. History will record Anthony

826
00:55:13,333 --> 00:55:17,413
Speaker 2: Alberonizi returned with an ill defined commitment to do something

827
00:55:17,813 --> 00:55:21,693
Speaker 2: to improve productivity. When pressed on what that something might be,

828
00:55:21,853 --> 00:55:24,973
Speaker 2: the PM didn't seem to know. The policies would emerge

829
00:55:25,333 --> 00:55:28,893
Speaker 2: from a two day summit in August. Yeah, I won't

830
00:55:28,893 --> 00:55:34,013
Speaker 2: go any further. That's that's a nick Cator and I'm

831
00:55:34,053 --> 00:55:37,373
Speaker 2: sure you know of nick Cata. That's a nic Cator

832
00:55:37,613 --> 00:55:38,773
Speaker 2: substanti speech. Today.

833
00:55:39,493 --> 00:55:42,813
Speaker 3: What's going on here, Laden is following on from my

834
00:55:42,933 --> 00:55:47,533
Speaker 3: answer to your previous question, is that Australia has its

835
00:55:47,653 --> 00:55:50,693
Speaker 3: division as well. There's East Australia in the Southeast Australia

836
00:55:51,413 --> 00:55:56,653
Speaker 3: and the states of Tasmania, particularly Victoria and New South

837
00:55:56,693 --> 00:56:03,493
Speaker 3: Wales are large. Most of the population is there and

838
00:56:04,333 --> 00:56:08,173
Speaker 3: they are not producing anything except grandiose plans to put

839
00:56:08,493 --> 00:56:14,413
Speaker 3: expensive offshore wind farms and clean green energy at the

840
00:56:16,093 --> 00:56:19,893
Speaker 3: cost of coal and get rid of coal to save

841
00:56:20,293 --> 00:56:24,213
Speaker 3: the planet, and it's the driving force in the economy

842
00:56:24,253 --> 00:56:27,413
Speaker 3: is WA and a little bit of Queensland coming from

843
00:56:27,493 --> 00:56:32,013
Speaker 3: mining and oil and gas. And he's got a problem,

844
00:56:32,413 --> 00:56:35,533
Speaker 3: but he's got a lot of voters there on welfare

845
00:56:35,613 --> 00:56:39,333
Speaker 3: who just love him. And so the thing is that

846
00:56:39,413 --> 00:56:42,453
Speaker 3: we've got a government there that really doesn't have a

847
00:56:42,533 --> 00:56:47,053
Speaker 3: clue or a mandate to go forward on how to

848
00:56:47,093 --> 00:56:53,053
Speaker 3: fix that. And so they reduce themselves to having power

849
00:56:53,053 --> 00:56:57,733
Speaker 3: oils and summits, bringing an industry for ideas and then

850
00:56:57,973 --> 00:57:01,613
Speaker 3: scrapping behind the scenes over the tax take and the

851
00:57:01,653 --> 00:57:06,133
Speaker 3: GST and you know, all states, so Southeast Australian states

852
00:57:06,773 --> 00:57:11,413
Speaker 3: get back over all of each bit of GST they collect,

853
00:57:11,733 --> 00:57:15,373
Speaker 3: and WA gets about thirty or forty cents because we

854
00:57:15,533 --> 00:57:19,893
Speaker 3: just produce so much. WA has massive surpluses. The rest

855
00:57:19,933 --> 00:57:23,093
Speaker 3: of the nation's in deficit because they're not working, they're

856
00:57:23,093 --> 00:57:27,453
Speaker 3: not productive, and that's where labor thrives on that in

857
00:57:27,453 --> 00:57:30,133
Speaker 3: its own way because it keeps traveling. More welfare and

858
00:57:30,173 --> 00:57:34,893
Speaker 3: more green energy and with green energy, just think with

859
00:57:35,013 --> 00:57:39,413
Speaker 3: green energy. Yes I'm for wind energy as well, but

860
00:57:39,613 --> 00:57:43,653
Speaker 3: remember it's the most expensive form of energy in reality

861
00:57:44,293 --> 00:57:48,813
Speaker 3: because it's intimatetent, and you need exactly the same capacity

862
00:57:49,093 --> 00:57:52,173
Speaker 3: in some other form of generation to cover for it

863
00:57:52,213 --> 00:57:54,493
Speaker 3: when it's not working. Now, don't go oh yet, but

864
00:57:54,533 --> 00:57:58,493
Speaker 3: they've got batteries. Those batteries are very expensive and also

865
00:57:59,573 --> 00:58:02,933
Speaker 3: are only very short, short time frame, even the best

866
00:58:03,013 --> 00:58:07,093
Speaker 3: for neading ones. The thing is that if you've got

867
00:58:07,253 --> 00:58:10,093
Speaker 3: a thousand megawats wind, you need a thousand megawts of

868
00:58:10,133 --> 00:58:14,093
Speaker 3: something else installed to back it up when it's not going. Hello,

869
00:58:14,653 --> 00:58:17,493
Speaker 3: this is the most expensive energy you've ever had. And

870
00:58:17,573 --> 00:58:20,413
Speaker 3: let me tell you that a wind tower all by

871
00:58:20,453 --> 00:58:25,213
Speaker 3: itself never pays back its carbon footprint in its entire lifetime,

872
00:58:26,493 --> 00:58:32,293
Speaker 3: from the mining, the manufacturing, fabrication and assembly of the towers,

873
00:58:32,373 --> 00:58:36,213
Speaker 3: and the electronics and the alternators and generators and a

874
00:58:36,333 --> 00:58:42,693
Speaker 3: transmission cabling an infrastructure that supports wind energy. If you

875
00:58:42,853 --> 00:58:45,493
Speaker 3: want lower emissions, the best way you can do it

876
00:58:45,533 --> 00:58:49,333
Speaker 3: is to announce you're not installing several wind farms and

877
00:58:49,373 --> 00:58:50,733
Speaker 3: you'll have lower emissions.

878
00:58:50,933 --> 00:58:56,453
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned fabrication in that statement. It reminded me

879
00:58:56,493 --> 00:59:01,493
Speaker 2: of net zero. But let's say it's ridiculous. It needs

880
00:59:01,573 --> 00:59:04,893
Speaker 2: zero as a concept that can never be achieved. But

881
00:59:05,173 --> 00:59:09,853
Speaker 2: going back also to exporting of the population to Australia,

882
00:59:09,933 --> 00:59:13,373
Speaker 2: well by part of the population to Australia mining here

883
00:59:13,693 --> 00:59:18,053
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. In New Zealand, the average income and

884
00:59:18,133 --> 00:59:20,813
Speaker 2: mining in New Zealand is one hundred and one thousand,

885
00:59:20,893 --> 00:59:25,413
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars per annum. The high value jobs, the

886
00:59:25,613 --> 00:59:29,493
Speaker 2: average income in New Zealand at the moment average wages

887
00:59:29,733 --> 00:59:33,053
Speaker 2: is sixty six thou So you said you said New

888
00:59:33,133 --> 00:59:35,053
Speaker 2: Zealand in both cases I did.

889
00:59:35,573 --> 00:59:39,493
Speaker 3: And in Australia it's a similar ratio that in New Zealand.

890
00:59:39,613 --> 00:59:42,173
Speaker 3: I'm saying in New Zealand, if you had more mining,

891
00:59:42,213 --> 00:59:46,613
Speaker 3: you'd have more taxes being paid high value jobs. We're

892
00:59:46,693 --> 00:59:50,053
Speaker 3: a very high tech industry where you produced an enormous

893
00:59:50,053 --> 00:59:53,053
Speaker 3: amount of wealth. It's the most productive industry in the

894
00:59:53,093 --> 00:59:57,493
Speaker 3: world bar none, under wealth generated per participant.

895
00:59:58,773 --> 01:00:02,453
Speaker 2: Is there still room for New Zealand hard workers to

896
01:00:03,053 --> 01:00:04,053
Speaker 2: go to West Australia.

897
01:00:04,893 --> 01:00:07,973
Speaker 3: Yes, and they do in their droves, but we would

898
01:00:08,013 --> 01:00:10,653
Speaker 3: like some them to come back and work in Taranaki.

899
01:00:10,933 --> 01:00:13,893
Speaker 3: We would also like to employ and train people, which

900
01:00:13,893 --> 01:00:16,893
Speaker 3: we intend to do in Taranaki and it particularly South Taranaki.

901
01:00:17,493 --> 01:00:21,733
Speaker 3: We're happy and what's in our conditions to build a

902
01:00:21,813 --> 01:00:27,533
Speaker 3: training institute and a logistics hub in hardware, and we'll

903
01:00:27,533 --> 01:00:31,773
Speaker 3: give preferential access to all of that to the locals.

904
01:00:32,093 --> 01:00:37,173
Speaker 3: And that's just not tokenism, that's actually fact written into

905
01:00:37,173 --> 01:00:40,773
Speaker 3: our proposed conditions, which have been approved previously, of course

906
01:00:40,813 --> 01:00:41,613
Speaker 3: by the EBA.

907
01:00:42,333 --> 01:00:46,093
Speaker 2: I've got to say, I have read through a summary

908
01:00:46,293 --> 01:00:51,613
Speaker 2: of your efforts and what you're offering the people of

909
01:00:51,853 --> 01:00:56,373
Speaker 2: Taranaki is mind boggling. There's money for this, there's money

910
01:00:56,373 --> 01:00:59,133
Speaker 2: for that, fifty thousand for this and fifty thousand for

911
01:00:59,173 --> 01:01:03,373
Speaker 2: something else. Yes, and I congratulate you on it because

912
01:01:03,413 --> 01:01:07,253
Speaker 2: you're approaching this in a very inclusive way and you're

913
01:01:07,293 --> 01:01:11,413
Speaker 2: being confronted by very exclusive, revolting attitude.

914
01:01:12,213 --> 01:01:17,293
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it's been challenging, and it's not exactly

915
01:01:18,053 --> 01:01:22,133
Speaker 3: the reaction I would have thought. When you bring the

916
01:01:22,293 --> 01:01:25,813
Speaker 3: expertise and you do the work that we've done to

917
01:01:25,893 --> 01:01:29,013
Speaker 3: a region and say here's what we're offering. I wouldn't

918
01:01:29,053 --> 01:01:30,653
Speaker 3: mind it if they assessed it and said, but we've

919
01:01:30,693 --> 01:01:33,173
Speaker 3: found some fatal flaws in this. You better either fix

920
01:01:33,213 --> 01:01:35,813
Speaker 3: them up or we're going to oppose you. They haven't

921
01:01:35,853 --> 01:01:39,333
Speaker 3: found those fatal flaws. They don't exist. We've covered off

922
01:01:39,373 --> 01:01:42,253
Speaker 3: the best we possibly can can. I say there's no

923
01:01:42,453 --> 01:01:46,173
Speaker 3: such thing as zero risk, as there's no such things

924
01:01:46,173 --> 01:01:50,293
Speaker 3: as net zero. Of course this risk with everything we do.

925
01:01:51,533 --> 01:01:55,213
Speaker 3: But those risks need to be balanced against the benefits.

926
01:01:55,693 --> 01:02:01,333
Speaker 3: And if the benefits well and truly offset those risks,

927
01:02:01,693 --> 01:02:06,973
Speaker 3: and it's been done professionally and it's independently peer reviewed

928
01:02:07,093 --> 01:02:13,413
Speaker 3: and checked, then it should should be permitted. And that's

929
01:02:13,453 --> 01:02:17,853
Speaker 3: where that's where we're coming unstuck because our opponents won't

930
01:02:17,853 --> 01:02:18,333
Speaker 3: accept that.

931
01:02:18,893 --> 01:02:23,893
Speaker 2: Ellen Eggers, it's been a pleasure talking with you. I

932
01:02:23,893 --> 01:02:27,053
Speaker 2: can only recommend that anybody who has the vaguest interest

933
01:02:28,853 --> 01:02:32,373
Speaker 2: follow up, is there anywhere online that they can go

934
01:02:32,573 --> 01:02:35,613
Speaker 2: and find out the detail?

935
01:02:38,893 --> 01:02:42,213
Speaker 3: Yes, yes there is. The two places to go online.

936
01:02:44,573 --> 01:02:47,693
Speaker 3: The first is that you can go to the Monuca website,

937
01:02:47,733 --> 01:02:52,973
Speaker 3: which I think is Manuka Resources dot com. It's easy

938
01:02:53,013 --> 01:02:56,453
Speaker 3: to find and we're on the Australians Stock Exchange. And

939
01:02:56,533 --> 01:02:58,493
Speaker 3: if you go to projects and you go to taranak

940
01:02:58,613 --> 01:03:02,413
Speaker 3: VTM project, there it all is. There's all the information,

941
01:03:02,533 --> 01:03:06,613
Speaker 3: the pre feasibility studies or the environmental work and a

942
01:03:06,613 --> 01:03:11,013
Speaker 3: lot of application document. The second place you can go

943
01:03:11,133 --> 01:03:13,613
Speaker 3: now and it's all public. Is to the fast Track

944
01:03:13,733 --> 01:03:17,893
Speaker 3: website in New Zealand from the fast Track team and

945
01:03:17,933 --> 01:03:21,573
Speaker 3: click on projects in progress and near is the Taranaki

946
01:03:21,653 --> 01:03:27,413
Speaker 3: VTM project. Click on substantive application and all of our

947
01:03:27,813 --> 01:03:33,973
Speaker 3: information is there. The entire suite of application material, including

948
01:03:34,133 --> 01:03:39,693
Speaker 3: all the marine science, the economic evaluation done by the

949
01:03:39,693 --> 01:03:47,173
Speaker 3: New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, our prefeasibility studies, and

950
01:03:47,573 --> 01:03:49,413
Speaker 3: all the supporting information is there.

951
01:03:49,573 --> 01:03:51,693
Speaker 2: All right, so farst fast Track project.

952
01:03:52,693 --> 01:03:55,613
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go to correct and if you go

953
01:03:55,693 --> 01:04:01,173
Speaker 3: to the fast Track website, which I haven't got here

954
01:04:01,213 --> 01:04:05,853
Speaker 3: it is. It's if you go to the usual www

955
01:04:05,973 --> 01:04:12,213
Speaker 3: dot FastTrack dot com, dot NZ, slash projects slash Taranaki VDM.

956
01:04:12,573 --> 01:04:16,893
Speaker 3: It's all there, right, very good, all right, I'll turn

957
01:04:16,933 --> 01:04:19,733
Speaker 3: you loose, okay, Well, thank you, Laden.

958
01:04:20,613 --> 01:04:21,293
Speaker 2: Thank you, Allen.

959
01:04:22,013 --> 01:04:22,613
Speaker 3: Cheers.

960
01:04:35,853 --> 01:04:38,613
Speaker 2: Now, this is one of those occasions when after listening

961
01:04:38,653 --> 01:04:42,533
Speaker 2: to that discussion, I would very much like to hear

962
01:04:42,573 --> 01:04:45,453
Speaker 2: your opinions, whatever they might be. And I'm sure that

963
01:04:45,493 --> 01:04:48,093
Speaker 2: there will be a little disagreement, but I think it's

964
01:04:48,093 --> 01:04:50,933
Speaker 2: a very important matter and it has a and the

965
01:04:51,013 --> 01:04:52,853
Speaker 2: result has a very large part to play in the

966
01:04:52,853 --> 01:04:56,933
Speaker 2: future of this country. I think so. Whatever it is

967
01:04:57,013 --> 01:05:02,333
Speaker 2: you do, think latent at newstalksb dot co dot nz. Now,

968
01:05:02,653 --> 01:05:05,493
Speaker 2: as the saying goes, that takes us away for podcasts

969
01:05:05,573 --> 01:05:09,533
Speaker 2: number two hundred and ninety five, and we shall return

970
01:05:10,013 --> 01:05:14,013
Speaker 2: next week, of course. In the meantime, as always, thank

971
01:05:14,053 --> 01:05:15,733
Speaker 2: you for listening and we'll talk soon.

972
01:05:23,493 --> 01:05:27,133
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at B Listen

973
01:05:27,213 --> 01:05:30,173
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

974
01:05:30,293 --> 01:05:33,373
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio