1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Now, this morning's Amazon Web services outage will have cost 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: companies hundreds of billions of dollars. According to estimates, the 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: outage affected thousands of companies, from airlines to Zero, Alexa, Snapchat, 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: the likes of TV and z in Sky, and Yes, controversially, 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: everyone's word all streak was broken if they're trying to 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: do wordle in the evening. Paul Spain is the CEO 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 1: of Guerrilla Technology. Hey Paul, Hi, Heather, did did you 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: lose your word all streak? 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: No? Fortunately, that that's not an addiction for me, can they? 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Some people text me through the show, I lost my streak, 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: but they've still got their streaks? 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: Now? 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: Is that because I played wordle while it was down 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: and they didn't. 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: It might be a timing thing depending on when you 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: when you play and when they do. But I imagine if 17 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: a lot of people are impacted, they can they can 18 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: probably join join things up and solve that for you. 19 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: No, well, I hope, so now listen. Is everything working now? 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Has it all been fixed? 21 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: Yes? And no? So on the Amazon side, they're reporting 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 2: that they're one hundred and however, many services that were 23 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: offline or impacted are all back online. But a lot 24 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: of things got broken in the process, and so when 25 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: I looked at, for instance, Zero a few minutes ago, 26 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: they were still reporting issues. And you know, I know 27 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 2: people within my business have been impacted by that today 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: and finding zero sort of you know, quite unreliable, slow 29 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: and so on. So this is this is a thing 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: when you when you when you break a lot of technology, 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: sometimes it takes quite an effort to actually get that, 32 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: you know, fully back to full operation. And possibly Amazon 33 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: have been a bit cautious about putting things back up 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: to full speed, but they haven't officially indicated that from 35 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: from what I've seen. 36 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: So given that there will be businesses who have, as 37 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: I said earlier, lost a lot of money here, who's liable? 38 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: Is it is liable? 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: Usually they kind of contract themselves out of liability in 40 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: their in their terms of service to it to at 41 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 2: least a large degree. So I would be surprised if 42 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: they're you know, heavily you know, in trouble on this one, 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: you know directly. But I mean, yeah, that's that's not 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: not something I've kind of have full knowledge on all 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: the contracts that they've they've got maybe with some of 46 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: their bigger, bigger customers. 47 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: Now, look, there was one commentator today who suggested that 48 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: what we need to do is diversify because we need 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: to accept that this kind of thing is going to happen, right, 50 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: and so maybe have your main bank account with one bank, 51 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: but then have another bank account with a different bank, 52 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: so that if your bank goes down in something like this, 53 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: you still have access to money. 54 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: What do you think might help? Might might not? Because 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: as we move to a sort of world where the 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: banks and everyone else is running off a small number 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: of hyperscale cloud providers like a WS Microsoft, you know, Google, 58 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: then you know one thing being impacted can impact another. 59 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: And of course you know banks rely on paymark and 60 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: credit card platforms and so on, so you know, it 61 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: takes you know, one of those things to go down, 62 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: could take all of our banks offline. And so just 63 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: as you know, one of the arguments that you know 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: some people will raise around you know, how much digitization 65 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: should we have? Should we really keep going to a 66 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: fully digitized sort of world where you don't have cash 67 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: and so on? And you know, this is one of 68 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: those one of those things that that comes up is 69 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: that it's nice to have some backup options, is it also. 70 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: Though necessary to worry about it so much, because don't 71 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: we just have to accept this kind of thing is 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: going to happen like it works ninety nine point seven 73 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: percent of the time, sometimes it's not going to and 74 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: it'll be up and running again within hours. 75 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: Yes, no, I mean the big players, lie cameras on, 76 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: will put a lot of effort in behind the scenes 77 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: to try and ensure that this particular issue never happens again. 78 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: And you know, over the years they've continued to invest 79 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: in resiliency. But you know what we've seen over the 80 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: last twenty four hours is nobody gets it right all 81 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 2: of the time, but the impact can can be quite big. 82 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: And you know, this one's saying, you know, we've we've 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: heard these comments and you know, potentially hundreds of billions 84 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: of dollars, but of course that's not evenly spread. So 85 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: there may well be businesses and you know, multiple countries 86 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: around the world that will shut down because this outage 87 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: hit them, you know, in the wrong way at the 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: wrong time. And you know that that's that's not necessarily 89 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: the sort of you know, the sort of outcome that 90 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: you would want, and of course there is the potential 91 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: for for you know, for bigger interruptions to the technology. Uh. 92 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: You know, we saw Tonga when they they went off offline, 93 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: you know pretty much as a uh you know, as 94 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: a as a nation when their fiber optic cable to 95 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: the rest of the world was was destroyed with with 96 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: the volcano going back a little while. So you know, 97 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: we do have to think around, well, how resilient are 98 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: we and you know, is there such a thing as 99 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: over digitization. 100 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: That's a really interesting idea, Paul, Thank you very much. 101 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: Paul Spain, CEO of Guerrilla Technology. 102 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 103 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 104 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.