1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from News Talks EDB. 3 00:00:13,027 --> 00:00:15,667 Speaker 2: It's fed by Roy Guard, takes it away. 4 00:00:15,907 --> 00:00:16,987 Speaker 3: He tummy through, he. 5 00:00:16,987 --> 00:00:19,507 Speaker 2: Goes through one, he goes through day, he goes through 6 00:00:19,507 --> 00:00:24,267 Speaker 2: to day. He siel Then for the All Blacks try 7 00:00:24,427 --> 00:00:29,147 Speaker 2: Roy Gard, the All Blacks monster the Irish in the 8 00:00:29,267 --> 00:00:36,427 Speaker 2: final twenty twenty six thirteen three final quarter tries and 9 00:00:36,467 --> 00:00:39,467 Speaker 2: the All Blacks winn it by thirteen at Soldier Field. 10 00:00:39,587 --> 00:00:42,027 Speaker 4: The happier times for Scott Robertson at the helm of 11 00:00:42,027 --> 00:00:45,987 Speaker 4: the All Blacks, the winover Ireland at Chicago Field to 12 00:00:45,987 --> 00:00:50,067 Speaker 4: start the Northern Tour last year. Speaking of Ireland, the 13 00:00:50,147 --> 00:00:55,187 Speaker 4: first report of his departure was written by Rory O'Connor, 14 00:00:55,547 --> 00:01:00,147 Speaker 4: chief rugby correspondent with the Irish Independent. He joins us, now, 15 00:01:00,187 --> 00:01:01,827 Speaker 4: before we get into the nuts and bolts of how 16 00:01:01,867 --> 00:01:05,107 Speaker 4: you stack this story up from so far away, Rory, 17 00:01:05,347 --> 00:01:09,587 Speaker 4: how has the the news of Scott Robertson's departure being 18 00:01:09,627 --> 00:01:12,627 Speaker 4: greeted in Irish rugby circles. 19 00:01:13,187 --> 00:01:14,947 Speaker 5: I think it's been greed greeted with a bit of 20 00:01:14,987 --> 00:01:19,387 Speaker 5: shock across the world, hasn't it. It's it's so unusual 21 00:01:19,467 --> 00:01:22,627 Speaker 5: for a you know, a team like you know, there 22 00:01:22,667 --> 00:01:24,227 Speaker 5: is no team like the All Blacks. The All Blacks 23 00:01:24,227 --> 00:01:26,467 Speaker 5: are the All Blacks, and they're always held up as 24 00:01:26,467 --> 00:01:29,787 Speaker 5: being the team that does things do things differently, you 25 00:01:29,787 --> 00:01:32,747 Speaker 5: know that the best in class in so many different areas. 26 00:01:33,947 --> 00:01:37,587 Speaker 5: I know we've seen probably some rugby performances across the year, 27 00:01:37,587 --> 00:01:41,667 Speaker 5: particularly that game against these against South Africa. But at 28 00:01:41,667 --> 00:01:45,787 Speaker 5: the same time, you know, given Scott Robertson's winning record 29 00:01:45,947 --> 00:01:49,587 Speaker 5: with the Crusaders and the bits and pieces that we 30 00:01:49,667 --> 00:01:51,347 Speaker 5: know about it having come across from one of the 31 00:01:51,347 --> 00:01:55,707 Speaker 5: twenty seventeen lines, for myself, you kind of just presume 32 00:01:55,827 --> 00:01:57,747 Speaker 5: that it was going to be, you know, when you're 33 00:01:57,787 --> 00:01:59,587 Speaker 5: not paying attention to the way that New Zealand's are 34 00:01:59,707 --> 00:02:01,507 Speaker 5: kind of you know, day to day, and in that 35 00:02:01,587 --> 00:02:04,747 Speaker 5: kind of I guess the goldfish bowl that you guys 36 00:02:04,747 --> 00:02:07,107 Speaker 5: are in, you kind of just went away. 37 00:02:06,867 --> 00:02:08,907 Speaker 3: From Lattison thinking that things would turn around. 38 00:02:08,907 --> 00:02:12,027 Speaker 5: But obviously there was far deeper issues within the setup, 39 00:02:12,067 --> 00:02:14,667 Speaker 5: within the system and those who come to the fore 40 00:02:14,827 --> 00:02:17,387 Speaker 5: in recent days with Leave Napier's story in the New 41 00:02:17,467 --> 00:02:20,307 Speaker 5: Zealand Herald and then obviously you know, even reading that 42 00:02:20,347 --> 00:02:21,987 Speaker 5: you kind of knew the writing was on the wall, 43 00:02:22,027 --> 00:02:25,547 Speaker 5: but no one, I think outside of New Zealand would 44 00:02:25,547 --> 00:02:29,587 Speaker 5: have expected them to move so fast to end his tenure. 45 00:02:29,747 --> 00:02:31,627 Speaker 3: So I think shock is the big thing. 46 00:02:31,667 --> 00:02:34,707 Speaker 5: It's very unusual for any head coach to lose their 47 00:02:34,787 --> 00:02:36,187 Speaker 5: job at this point of a work up cycle. 48 00:02:36,187 --> 00:02:37,227 Speaker 3: I know South Africa did it. 49 00:02:37,667 --> 00:02:40,507 Speaker 5: What was it in twenty seventeen at to bring in 50 00:02:40,587 --> 00:02:43,427 Speaker 5: Razzie Erasmus from Ireland from Munster Rugby and that obviously 51 00:02:43,427 --> 00:02:45,547 Speaker 5: worked out really, really well because they went on to 52 00:02:45,587 --> 00:02:48,027 Speaker 5: win the twenty nineteen World Cup. And I'm sure that's 53 00:02:48,027 --> 00:02:50,267 Speaker 5: what New Zealand Rugby are hoping for. But it doesn't 54 00:02:50,307 --> 00:02:53,907 Speaker 5: speak of a very kind of you know, it's not 55 00:02:53,947 --> 00:02:55,347 Speaker 5: what the All Backs will be doing if they were 56 00:02:55,347 --> 00:02:58,027 Speaker 5: designing a high performance plan for a World Cup. It's 57 00:02:58,747 --> 00:03:01,627 Speaker 5: it's it's a real surprise, a real shock, and you know, 58 00:03:01,667 --> 00:03:04,507 Speaker 5: anyone's spoken to within Irish Rugby or within world will 59 00:03:04,547 --> 00:03:05,827 Speaker 5: be in the last couple of days would be quite 60 00:03:05,867 --> 00:03:06,347 Speaker 5: taken it back. 61 00:03:06,787 --> 00:03:08,827 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I have to tell you, Rory, it's been 62 00:03:08,827 --> 00:03:10,787 Speaker 4: the same down here because New Zealand right bey in 63 00:03:10,827 --> 00:03:13,627 Speaker 4: the administration of the game. He has been inherently conservative 64 00:03:14,027 --> 00:03:16,187 Speaker 4: around things like this, so to make a move like 65 00:03:16,227 --> 00:03:21,427 Speaker 4: this is unprecedented. Really ironically enough, Scott Robertson, I oversaw 66 00:03:21,547 --> 00:03:24,027 Speaker 4: a couple of wins over Ireland Dublin in twenty twenty 67 00:03:24,027 --> 00:03:27,667 Speaker 4: four Chicago last year. The Dublin performance in particular are 68 00:03:27,707 --> 00:03:30,867 Speaker 4: probably one of his best at the helm of the side. 69 00:03:30,867 --> 00:03:33,227 Speaker 4: What did you make of the All Blacks performances and 70 00:03:33,307 --> 00:03:36,067 Speaker 4: those two matches, Well. 71 00:03:36,627 --> 00:03:38,667 Speaker 5: They don't you know the fact that New Zealand are 72 00:03:38,707 --> 00:03:41,147 Speaker 5: removing their head coach or he's leaving, depending on which 73 00:03:41,147 --> 00:03:44,667 Speaker 5: way you look at it, with a winning record that's 74 00:03:44,907 --> 00:03:49,547 Speaker 5: second only to Razie Erasthmus and doesn't really look good 75 00:03:49,547 --> 00:03:52,427 Speaker 5: for any head coach across the world. And certainly those 76 00:03:52,467 --> 00:03:55,347 Speaker 5: two games, the Dublin game I thought you've seen him 77 00:03:55,627 --> 00:04:01,267 Speaker 5: are really professional and clinical performance Ireland. I think the 78 00:04:01,307 --> 00:04:04,147 Speaker 5: big thing about November now is that the artists, particularly 79 00:04:04,187 --> 00:04:05,987 Speaker 5: with Ireland, because of the way we manage. 80 00:04:05,787 --> 00:04:09,507 Speaker 3: Our players, the Irish players are quite undercut. 81 00:04:09,107 --> 00:04:10,707 Speaker 5: Going into that winnow, and I think New Zealand have 82 00:04:10,707 --> 00:04:14,227 Speaker 5: been able to exploit that very very well. And in 83 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:18,267 Speaker 5: twenty twenty four they were just the better team, the 84 00:04:18,307 --> 00:04:22,067 Speaker 5: smarter team. They took better decisions. In Chicago it was 85 00:04:22,067 --> 00:04:24,507 Speaker 5: slightly different, and in Chicago was a bad game. You know, 86 00:04:24,507 --> 00:04:26,027 Speaker 5: it was a bad event. 87 00:04:26,107 --> 00:04:26,347 Speaker 3: It was. 88 00:04:26,387 --> 00:04:29,467 Speaker 5: It was poorly organized, the pitch wasn't great, and neither 89 00:04:29,547 --> 00:04:31,987 Speaker 5: team really rose to the occasion that had been promised 90 00:04:32,147 --> 00:04:34,867 Speaker 5: all week. And I have to said I did find 91 00:04:35,627 --> 00:04:38,107 Speaker 5: quite jarring to watch the mental mistakes that New Zealand 92 00:04:38,147 --> 00:04:40,227 Speaker 5: made in our first sixty minutes. 93 00:04:41,227 --> 00:04:42,987 Speaker 3: But then in the last twenty you know, the. 94 00:04:43,387 --> 00:04:47,747 Speaker 5: The individual talent that you guys have, the brilliant players 95 00:04:47,827 --> 00:04:49,787 Speaker 5: were able to kind of rise above what Ireland were 96 00:04:49,787 --> 00:04:52,187 Speaker 5: putting out there was it was a pretty poor Irish performance. 97 00:04:52,387 --> 00:04:53,747 Speaker 3: You know, both games were not great. 98 00:04:54,027 --> 00:04:56,427 Speaker 5: A couple of the Irish players in November of this year, 99 00:04:56,587 --> 00:04:58,467 Speaker 5: because of the Lions Tour the previous summer, they were 100 00:04:58,507 --> 00:05:01,347 Speaker 5: playing their first game of the season, which you would 101 00:05:01,387 --> 00:05:04,667 Speaker 5: never design the season where your your your top players 102 00:05:04,707 --> 00:05:07,707 Speaker 5: were playing their first first game against the All Blacks. 103 00:05:08,027 --> 00:05:10,027 Speaker 3: But I think had things. 104 00:05:09,747 --> 00:05:11,867 Speaker 5: Been taken along much better, New Zealand would have won 105 00:05:11,947 --> 00:05:13,147 Speaker 5: that game more more comfortably. 106 00:05:13,667 --> 00:05:15,747 Speaker 3: In the end, the last twenty minutes they pulled away really, 107 00:05:15,787 --> 00:05:18,467 Speaker 3: really well. And it's not a. 108 00:05:18,387 --> 00:05:20,267 Speaker 5: Great reflection on where Ireland are right now, and that's 109 00:05:20,267 --> 00:05:22,347 Speaker 5: obviously a different conversation that you guys would be less 110 00:05:22,347 --> 00:05:24,067 Speaker 5: interested in. But if you think of how good these 111 00:05:24,107 --> 00:05:27,867 Speaker 5: two teams were the twenty three World Cup, I think 112 00:05:27,907 --> 00:05:30,467 Speaker 5: bona fide rivals for a short period where Ireland have 113 00:05:30,507 --> 00:05:32,027 Speaker 5: won the series in New Zealand and put all that 114 00:05:32,067 --> 00:05:34,787 Speaker 5: pressure on Anian Foster. In twenty twenty two, Ireland have 115 00:05:34,827 --> 00:05:36,747 Speaker 5: probably fallen away a little bit. They're not the scalp 116 00:05:36,867 --> 00:05:39,427 Speaker 5: that they would have been during the last World Cup cycle. 117 00:05:39,827 --> 00:05:41,227 Speaker 5: I think there's a hope with in Ireland that they'll 118 00:05:41,227 --> 00:05:42,707 Speaker 5: be able to build back up to that point. But 119 00:05:42,747 --> 00:05:47,427 Speaker 5: I guess without the player base that New Zealand, South Africa, England. 120 00:05:47,467 --> 00:05:49,627 Speaker 3: And France have, it's harder to do that. 121 00:05:50,147 --> 00:05:52,347 Speaker 5: And maybe that's something that New Zealand they're finding as well, 122 00:05:52,387 --> 00:05:55,347 Speaker 5: that you know, a small you know, population wise, a 123 00:05:55,347 --> 00:05:57,907 Speaker 5: small country like ourselves. I know you guys have an 124 00:05:57,907 --> 00:06:01,947 Speaker 5: incredible tradition and rugby sorry, and a lot more rugby players, 125 00:06:02,387 --> 00:06:04,067 Speaker 5: but I think when Scott Robertson took over and all 126 00:06:04,067 --> 00:06:08,067 Speaker 5: those players retired or went to Japan at the end 127 00:06:08,067 --> 00:06:10,667 Speaker 5: of that World Cup, it was very difficult to replicate it. 128 00:06:10,707 --> 00:06:12,427 Speaker 5: And I do think overall there is a trend that 129 00:06:12,427 --> 00:06:15,867 Speaker 5: the bigger nations in terms of kind of you know, France, 130 00:06:15,907 --> 00:06:19,107 Speaker 5: at Africa, England in particular, who have those resources, the 131 00:06:19,107 --> 00:06:21,667 Speaker 5: bigger leagues in terms of England and France and a 132 00:06:21,107 --> 00:06:24,387 Speaker 5: lot more money, a lot more players, they seem to 133 00:06:24,427 --> 00:06:26,187 Speaker 5: have all had their house in order, and that's making 134 00:06:26,587 --> 00:06:30,427 Speaker 5: the kind of smaller nations by resources wise, it's more 135 00:06:30,467 --> 00:06:32,107 Speaker 5: of a struggle. And I think even though New Zealand 136 00:06:32,187 --> 00:06:34,867 Speaker 5: have more players than someone like Ireland and a much 137 00:06:34,867 --> 00:06:37,787 Speaker 5: greater tradition of winning record, I think it's going to 138 00:06:37,867 --> 00:06:40,147 Speaker 5: get harder and harder for anyone who coaches the All Blacks, 139 00:06:40,307 --> 00:06:43,427 Speaker 5: especially if the threshold that's been set. I know David 140 00:06:43,507 --> 00:06:46,547 Speaker 5: Kirk said it wasn't about results, it was more about 141 00:06:46,547 --> 00:06:49,627 Speaker 5: the team's trajectory. And you guys have an incredible array 142 00:06:49,667 --> 00:06:53,747 Speaker 5: of top end coaches, but I question whether the player 143 00:06:53,747 --> 00:06:56,307 Speaker 5: base is as strong as it was maybe you know, 144 00:06:56,347 --> 00:06:58,667 Speaker 5: between that glory years of twenty eleven and to twenty 145 00:06:58,707 --> 00:07:03,027 Speaker 5: twenty fifteen. So yeah, I think like in Ireland, New 146 00:07:03,107 --> 00:07:05,787 Speaker 5: Zealand were still considered you know, the All Backs were 147 00:07:05,827 --> 00:07:08,427 Speaker 5: still considered a massive scalp. Ireland haven't beaten them there 148 00:07:08,427 --> 00:07:11,027 Speaker 5: three times in a row, so it didn't look from 149 00:07:11,067 --> 00:07:12,947 Speaker 5: the outside if you're just zoning in on those games, 150 00:07:12,947 --> 00:07:16,027 Speaker 5: that Robertson was doing a bad job. But I think 151 00:07:16,027 --> 00:07:17,667 Speaker 5: we all saw this at Africa game and I think 152 00:07:17,707 --> 00:07:19,387 Speaker 5: that's probably what they did for him in the end, 153 00:07:19,387 --> 00:07:22,467 Speaker 5: as well as obviously the fact that senior players weren't 154 00:07:22,467 --> 00:07:23,427 Speaker 5: happy with what he was doing. 155 00:07:23,907 --> 00:07:26,747 Speaker 4: Well, the other part of this whole thing, obviously, Roryan 156 00:07:26,867 --> 00:07:28,547 Speaker 4: part of the reason I wanted to check to you 157 00:07:28,667 --> 00:07:31,827 Speaker 4: was the fact that you broke this story. As you've mentioned. 158 00:07:31,907 --> 00:07:34,707 Speaker 4: Liam Napier from our New Zealand Herald Head written a 159 00:07:34,747 --> 00:07:37,707 Speaker 4: piece about it hinting at plaied to satisfaction and some 160 00:07:37,747 --> 00:07:40,747 Speaker 4: fairly scathing comments and the end of year review. Now, 161 00:07:40,787 --> 00:07:44,147 Speaker 4: obviously you can't give away your sources, but can you 162 00:07:44,187 --> 00:07:46,267 Speaker 4: tell us about the chain of events which saw you 163 00:07:46,907 --> 00:07:50,107 Speaker 4: piece the story together and stack it up from half 164 00:07:50,107 --> 00:07:52,027 Speaker 4: a world away. 165 00:07:52,147 --> 00:07:54,827 Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it's reflective of the fact that it's 166 00:07:54,827 --> 00:07:58,067 Speaker 5: a much smaller world now with social media what's up, 167 00:07:58,147 --> 00:08:01,267 Speaker 5: and the rugby community is quite small. I've been in 168 00:08:01,267 --> 00:08:03,467 Speaker 5: this job for thirteen years, have been to New Zealand 169 00:08:03,467 --> 00:08:06,147 Speaker 5: on tour. You know, you come across in a lot 170 00:08:06,147 --> 00:08:08,507 Speaker 5: of people, and you know people work in different countries 171 00:08:08,547 --> 00:08:10,427 Speaker 5: and all that sort of stuff, so you can develop. 172 00:08:10,067 --> 00:08:11,307 Speaker 3: A network over the years. 173 00:08:11,467 --> 00:08:13,547 Speaker 5: And really what kind of brought me into this story 174 00:08:13,667 --> 00:08:15,987 Speaker 5: was the fact that Ardie Savea was initially linked to 175 00:08:16,027 --> 00:08:19,707 Speaker 5: a move to Lincer where Rico Ioane is on the bench, 176 00:08:19,827 --> 00:08:21,907 Speaker 5: I'm in front at the moment, the Leinster play bay 177 00:08:21,947 --> 00:08:24,747 Speaker 5: on Rica. Johanne is on the bench from Leincswer tomorrow 178 00:08:24,947 --> 00:08:27,907 Speaker 5: today and and you know, Jordi Barrett enjoyed a great 179 00:08:27,907 --> 00:08:30,587 Speaker 5: sabbatical here last year, really successful, and it's kind of 180 00:08:30,587 --> 00:08:32,987 Speaker 5: become a bit of a destination of choice for all 181 00:08:33,027 --> 00:08:35,747 Speaker 5: Backs to come on sabbatical, and so Leinster were kind 182 00:08:35,747 --> 00:08:38,267 Speaker 5: of dangled as one of the options for Ardie save 183 00:08:38,467 --> 00:08:40,027 Speaker 5: if he was to walk away from the all Backs, 184 00:08:40,027 --> 00:08:44,707 Speaker 5: which was obviously the central plank of of Lean Napier story. 185 00:08:45,147 --> 00:08:48,827 Speaker 3: All politics is local and down here, you sorry up here. 186 00:08:49,267 --> 00:08:51,707 Speaker 5: The fact that Lincer might be signing an all Black 187 00:08:51,827 --> 00:08:54,867 Speaker 5: of Ardie Savey's stature was a massive line. So I 188 00:08:54,867 --> 00:08:56,827 Speaker 5: started kind of rather than just repeat it and say 189 00:08:56,987 --> 00:08:59,747 Speaker 5: reports and the Zealand link gardis Saveya to have moved 190 00:08:59,747 --> 00:09:02,027 Speaker 5: to lincer. I started texting, you know, around you know, 191 00:09:02,027 --> 00:09:04,147 Speaker 5: my network, and that. 192 00:09:04,187 --> 00:09:05,387 Speaker 3: Was pretty on Wednesday morning. 193 00:09:05,947 --> 00:09:07,947 Speaker 5: Are tim and my best I had the benefit of 194 00:09:08,347 --> 00:09:10,587 Speaker 5: the of the time zones on my side, and I 195 00:09:10,667 --> 00:09:13,747 Speaker 5: quickly established that Aristaveya wasn't coming to Leinster, that Leinster 196 00:09:13,787 --> 00:09:17,947 Speaker 5: didn't think he was available, and I published that story. 197 00:09:18,027 --> 00:09:19,707 Speaker 5: But I suppose that, And there's a lot going on 198 00:09:19,747 --> 00:09:21,547 Speaker 5: contracts wise here, so there's kind of a lot of 199 00:09:21,987 --> 00:09:23,387 Speaker 5: dialogue going around. 200 00:09:23,187 --> 00:09:25,187 Speaker 3: Different players and player movement. 201 00:09:25,267 --> 00:09:26,747 Speaker 5: Just give them the time of year that it is 202 00:09:27,387 --> 00:09:28,947 Speaker 5: and just kind of it was a bit of a 203 00:09:28,987 --> 00:09:31,187 Speaker 5: snowball effect from there. I probably wouldn't have chased it 204 00:09:31,267 --> 00:09:33,547 Speaker 5: at all had that link not being involved. I know 205 00:09:33,587 --> 00:09:36,427 Speaker 5: a couple of my English colleagues were also onto the story, 206 00:09:36,707 --> 00:09:41,027 Speaker 5: again with the benefit of the time zones, and you know, 207 00:09:41,107 --> 00:09:43,307 Speaker 5: I just managed to confirm it, you know, earlier than 208 00:09:43,347 --> 00:09:45,507 Speaker 5: they did. You know, i'd say marginally. And I'm sure 209 00:09:45,867 --> 00:09:48,427 Speaker 5: given the time zones, I'm sure all the New Zealand 210 00:09:48,467 --> 00:09:50,747 Speaker 5: rugby journists were probably getting onto the story just as 211 00:09:50,987 --> 00:09:51,987 Speaker 5: as they were waking up. 212 00:09:52,027 --> 00:09:54,627 Speaker 3: But I was able to get to it first. 213 00:09:54,747 --> 00:09:57,507 Speaker 5: Rugbies the small world people talk and I was able 214 00:09:57,547 --> 00:10:00,547 Speaker 5: to firm it up and you know, luckily enough, and. 215 00:10:00,467 --> 00:10:01,427 Speaker 3: It was a very unusual one. 216 00:10:01,427 --> 00:10:03,427 Speaker 5: I didn't wake up on Wednesday morning expecting to have 217 00:10:03,467 --> 00:10:07,907 Speaker 5: a story of this magnitude, but that's the way it broke. Yeah, 218 00:10:07,907 --> 00:10:11,147 Speaker 5: it's quirky enough that it came through Ireland. So maybe 219 00:10:11,147 --> 00:10:13,587 Speaker 5: if the r Few decided to park company with Andy 220 00:10:13,587 --> 00:10:15,907 Speaker 5: Farlan in the next couple of years, then he's heal 221 00:10:15,987 --> 00:10:19,787 Speaker 5: harold or someone will have it as revenge. But look, 222 00:10:19,787 --> 00:10:21,667 Speaker 5: I don't take any great pleasure like I like Scot Robertson. 223 00:10:21,667 --> 00:10:23,187 Speaker 5: I thought he was you know, I told you did an 224 00:10:23,267 --> 00:10:26,667 Speaker 5: unbelievable job. And in the Crusaders, you know, I came 225 00:10:26,667 --> 00:10:29,947 Speaker 5: across from on the twenty seventeen lines tour. And at 226 00:10:29,987 --> 00:10:31,587 Speaker 5: the end of the day, someone's lost their job and 227 00:10:31,587 --> 00:10:34,067 Speaker 5: it's his dream job. And it's obviously a bit of 228 00:10:34,267 --> 00:10:36,587 Speaker 5: a coup for me. But someone's lost their job at 229 00:10:36,627 --> 00:10:39,467 Speaker 5: the end of this, and I hope that he kind of, 230 00:10:40,347 --> 00:10:43,787 Speaker 5: you know, comes out of this with you know, a 231 00:10:43,827 --> 00:10:45,827 Speaker 5: renewed will to go on and coach. And obviously he's 232 00:10:45,827 --> 00:10:48,107 Speaker 5: been linked with jobs up here already and he will 233 00:10:48,107 --> 00:10:49,307 Speaker 5: get jobs out of it. 234 00:10:49,347 --> 00:10:50,987 Speaker 3: But you know, to lose the all that job. 235 00:10:51,027 --> 00:10:52,907 Speaker 5: I'm sure it's very difficult or it's been a very 236 00:10:52,907 --> 00:10:54,787 Speaker 5: difficult couple of days for him and will be a 237 00:10:54,827 --> 00:10:56,867 Speaker 5: couple of a couple of months, no doubt as he 238 00:10:56,947 --> 00:10:58,067 Speaker 5: questions what went wrong. 239 00:10:58,187 --> 00:11:00,867 Speaker 4: And day Well, that is a story about human beings, 240 00:11:00,867 --> 00:11:03,387 Speaker 4: as you say, but it's a tremendous pace of journalism 241 00:11:03,387 --> 00:11:05,947 Speaker 4: and the least rory, So huge kudos to you on that. 242 00:11:06,067 --> 00:11:08,387 Speaker 4: You mean job offers there app your why you've got 243 00:11:08,427 --> 00:11:12,787 Speaker 4: another keyway there of course. Clayton McMillan at Munster right now, 244 00:11:12,827 --> 00:11:16,867 Speaker 4: can you see a scenario under which Scott Robertson coaches 245 00:11:16,867 --> 00:11:19,107 Speaker 4: a club side in Ireland of the future. 246 00:11:20,547 --> 00:11:23,227 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, kay McMillan, like Munster are playing cast and 247 00:11:23,267 --> 00:11:27,547 Speaker 5: a kind of pivotal European Cup game today are our 248 00:11:27,627 --> 00:11:29,347 Speaker 5: time at five point thirty and he was up for 249 00:11:29,467 --> 00:11:33,107 Speaker 5: media yesterday and you know he's I think he's almost 250 00:11:33,107 --> 00:11:35,387 Speaker 5: over here for his oe, isn't He's he's in Ireland 251 00:11:35,387 --> 00:11:38,747 Speaker 5: to build experience towards getting the All Blacks job. I 252 00:11:38,747 --> 00:11:42,147 Speaker 5: think it's probably too early for him this time around, 253 00:11:42,227 --> 00:11:44,427 Speaker 5: and it probably looks like the Zeeland they're looking for 254 00:11:44,507 --> 00:11:46,467 Speaker 5: a more experienced coach and they have that, but he 255 00:11:46,467 --> 00:11:48,107 Speaker 5: certainly didn't rule it out. He said they hadn't come 256 00:11:48,107 --> 00:11:50,587 Speaker 5: across his radar, which I suppose you have to say, 257 00:11:51,387 --> 00:11:54,907 Speaker 5: but you know, pivotally, he didn't say I'm not going back. 258 00:11:55,347 --> 00:11:57,347 Speaker 5: I'm committed to you. He has a three year dealer Munster, 259 00:11:57,467 --> 00:11:59,867 Speaker 5: but within the r a few there's generally a six 260 00:11:59,947 --> 00:12:03,347 Speaker 5: to six or nine month break clause, which Razzie Rasmus 261 00:12:03,427 --> 00:12:05,067 Speaker 5: was the Munster coach when he went back to South Africa. 262 00:12:05,147 --> 00:12:07,827 Speaker 5: So there's parallels there and Monster. There's a bit of 263 00:12:07,827 --> 00:12:11,387 Speaker 5: fear about losing Kate McMillan. Absolutely, I could see Scott 264 00:12:11,427 --> 00:12:15,307 Speaker 5: Robertson working in Ireland. There's no vacancies right now where 265 00:12:15,307 --> 00:12:18,387 Speaker 5: a monster to lose Kate McMillan. They have approached Scott 266 00:12:18,427 --> 00:12:21,907 Speaker 5: Robertson about vacancies before he would be I think he'll 267 00:12:21,947 --> 00:12:25,187 Speaker 5: be the top candidate for any job, certainly within the 268 00:12:25,227 --> 00:12:28,867 Speaker 5: club game. In twenty twenty seven, is gonna be a 269 00:12:28,947 --> 00:12:34,307 Speaker 5: raft of international jobs available. Whether the all Blacks thing 270 00:12:34,387 --> 00:12:37,107 Speaker 5: would put you know, countries off going for them, I 271 00:12:37,147 --> 00:12:39,627 Speaker 5: don't know, because I think you have to take the 272 00:12:39,627 --> 00:12:42,547 Speaker 5: full package and and you have to also assess the 273 00:12:42,587 --> 00:12:44,627 Speaker 5: situation where he was coming into a team. I think 274 00:12:44,787 --> 00:12:46,507 Speaker 5: probably the worst thing to happen is Scott Robertson was 275 00:12:46,507 --> 00:12:47,747 Speaker 5: that you see them got to the World Cup and 276 00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:49,787 Speaker 5: final in twenty twenty three and came very close to 277 00:12:49,787 --> 00:12:52,187 Speaker 5: winning it, which meant he was taking over a team 278 00:12:52,187 --> 00:12:54,307 Speaker 5: and there's only so much improvement he can make at 279 00:12:54,307 --> 00:12:57,747 Speaker 5: that point. So I think a lot of countries, you know, 280 00:12:57,787 --> 00:12:59,987 Speaker 5: Scotland are probably looking to be looking for a coach after. 281 00:12:59,827 --> 00:13:00,467 Speaker 3: The World Cup. 282 00:13:00,907 --> 00:13:03,827 Speaker 5: Ireland maybe you know, there's a couple of good candidates 283 00:13:03,947 --> 00:13:06,707 Speaker 5: available for Ireland within the system and also in Rowgar 284 00:13:06,867 --> 00:13:10,387 Speaker 5: who worked with Scott Robertson, so there's definitely gonna be 285 00:13:10,467 --> 00:13:12,947 Speaker 5: job offers for him. Hardquin seems to be the one 286 00:13:12,947 --> 00:13:14,627 Speaker 5: that you know, they're already pushing for him. They've made 287 00:13:14,667 --> 00:13:16,267 Speaker 5: it known that they you know, they don't have to 288 00:13:16,307 --> 00:13:18,827 Speaker 5: coach at the moment, and they would like they've got 289 00:13:18,827 --> 00:13:20,467 Speaker 5: a good they would like to go for him, They've 290 00:13:20,507 --> 00:13:21,307 Speaker 5: got a good budget. 291 00:13:21,867 --> 00:13:22,867 Speaker 3: I think it would take him. 292 00:13:22,747 --> 00:13:24,507 Speaker 5: Obviously out of New Zealand, and I don't know whether 293 00:13:24,587 --> 00:13:26,587 Speaker 5: where he's at family wise, whether that would suit him, 294 00:13:26,587 --> 00:13:29,587 Speaker 5: but it's it's a far more anonymous job to be 295 00:13:29,627 --> 00:13:32,427 Speaker 5: the Harriquanes coach within a big city like London for 296 00:13:32,467 --> 00:13:33,747 Speaker 5: a couple of years than it is to be the 297 00:13:33,787 --> 00:13:36,347 Speaker 5: All Blacks coach. It might be just the perfect route 298 00:13:36,387 --> 00:13:39,387 Speaker 5: back into it. Maybe it's too soon, but I think 299 00:13:39,427 --> 00:13:42,227 Speaker 5: he will because of his work with the Crusaders, and 300 00:13:43,107 --> 00:13:44,987 Speaker 5: he's right, he still has a reputation as a very 301 00:13:44,987 --> 00:13:47,347 Speaker 5: good coach. This will turnish him, but not to the 302 00:13:47,387 --> 00:13:50,507 Speaker 5: extent where he won't be top of every shortlist for 303 00:13:50,947 --> 00:13:53,587 Speaker 5: certainly every club game going for the next sorry, every 304 00:13:53,587 --> 00:13:55,307 Speaker 5: club job going for the next couple of years. 305 00:13:55,387 --> 00:13:57,747 Speaker 4: Yeah, we look forward to saying where he pops up 306 00:13:57,827 --> 00:14:00,067 Speaker 4: right just before you go, you mentioned Ireland before. We're 307 00:14:00,067 --> 00:14:03,427 Speaker 4: always curious about how the Irish team of traveling, particularly 308 00:14:03,467 --> 00:14:05,747 Speaker 4: the year before a world cap the twenty twenty six 309 00:14:06,107 --> 00:14:08,987 Speaker 4: six Nations now less than three weeks of white block 310 00:14:09,067 --> 00:14:13,467 Speaker 4: basker out now between France and Ireland in Paris, how 311 00:14:13,507 --> 00:14:16,187 Speaker 4: do you assess where Ireland are as you hit into 312 00:14:16,187 --> 00:14:17,187 Speaker 4: twenty twenty six. 313 00:14:18,787 --> 00:14:20,507 Speaker 5: There's a lot of doom and bloom around the Irish 314 00:14:20,587 --> 00:14:23,987 Speaker 5: national team right now and I think when when you 315 00:14:24,067 --> 00:14:26,107 Speaker 5: kind of got to a point where you felt like 316 00:14:26,347 --> 00:14:28,747 Speaker 5: you were you know, direct rivals with with New Zealand, 317 00:14:29,307 --> 00:14:32,027 Speaker 5: and I think Scott Robertson's win ratio is abund seventy 318 00:14:32,067 --> 00:14:35,347 Speaker 5: two percent. And Andy farrells, you know, since the World 319 00:14:35,347 --> 00:14:38,427 Speaker 5: Cup is around sixty two, and you would know about 320 00:14:38,427 --> 00:14:42,427 Speaker 5: the Ireland's trajectory. To use David Kirk's term, it's an 321 00:14:42,467 --> 00:14:44,347 Speaker 5: aging team. A lot of them went on the lines 322 00:14:44,427 --> 00:14:45,987 Speaker 5: last year. Andy Farrell went on the line, so it 323 00:14:46,107 --> 00:14:49,347 Speaker 5: kind of divided the resources of a very small setup 324 00:14:49,827 --> 00:14:52,667 Speaker 5: for a calendar year and it culminated in that really 325 00:14:52,747 --> 00:14:56,427 Speaker 5: damaging defeat of South Africa at home where Ireland were 326 00:14:56,467 --> 00:14:59,827 Speaker 5: scrummered off the park. But also we're incredibly indisciplined and 327 00:14:59,907 --> 00:15:01,827 Speaker 5: I should have lost by an awful lot more than 328 00:15:01,827 --> 00:15:06,147 Speaker 5: the two score game that had ended up being both 329 00:15:06,187 --> 00:15:09,147 Speaker 5: of are you know our top two loose head props 330 00:15:09,187 --> 00:15:11,027 Speaker 5: are injured and are looking like they won't be available 331 00:15:11,067 --> 00:15:12,747 Speaker 5: for Paris, and Paris is not a place you want 332 00:15:12,787 --> 00:15:15,587 Speaker 5: to go with a wee can scrum and yet there's 333 00:15:15,587 --> 00:15:17,747 Speaker 5: still a lot of quality there. So I think that 334 00:15:17,827 --> 00:15:20,507 Speaker 5: the hope and I guess what Andy Farrell has that 335 00:15:20,547 --> 00:15:24,307 Speaker 5: Scott Robertson wouldn't have had is that body of work 336 00:15:24,347 --> 00:15:26,387 Speaker 5: from the previous World Cup cycle where you turn things 337 00:15:26,387 --> 00:15:31,267 Speaker 5: around and produced a really really top quality team that 338 00:15:31,387 --> 00:15:33,547 Speaker 5: was only you know, whisker away from a World Cup 339 00:15:33,867 --> 00:15:36,787 Speaker 5: semi final, and I think if they've Beataten New Zealand 340 00:15:36,827 --> 00:15:38,467 Speaker 5: that day, they might have gone onto a final and 341 00:15:38,467 --> 00:15:41,027 Speaker 5: you never know what it would happen there. It feels 342 00:15:41,027 --> 00:15:43,267 Speaker 5: like they're a team in decline, an aging team and 343 00:15:43,347 --> 00:15:45,307 Speaker 5: team in need of renewal and new faces. 344 00:15:45,667 --> 00:15:47,427 Speaker 3: There are a couple of new faces. 345 00:15:47,107 --> 00:15:49,987 Speaker 5: That maybe your audience wouldn't be as aware of, but 346 00:15:50,027 --> 00:15:52,147 Speaker 5: not probably as many as you would like. Maybe that's 347 00:15:52,187 --> 00:15:54,787 Speaker 5: a reflection of the playerpool and everything in the still 348 00:15:54,867 --> 00:15:58,227 Speaker 5: massive question marks about the number ten and the kind 349 00:15:58,267 --> 00:16:01,307 Speaker 5: of long term successor to Johnny Sexton. So right now, 350 00:16:01,427 --> 00:16:03,987 Speaker 5: when you've got France away and England away in two 351 00:16:04,067 --> 00:16:06,707 Speaker 5: of your first three games in the Six Nations, it's 352 00:16:06,707 --> 00:16:10,427 Speaker 5: looking like a very daunting challenge and a very difficult 353 00:16:10,427 --> 00:16:13,387 Speaker 5: Six Nations. But maybe, you know, maybe this is where 354 00:16:13,427 --> 00:16:15,467 Speaker 5: Andy Farrell comes into his own and he turns things around. 355 00:16:15,467 --> 00:16:17,147 Speaker 5: I think right now, no one's up before to any 356 00:16:17,147 --> 00:16:21,427 Speaker 5: great enthusiasm, but he's a very he's a very fine coach. 357 00:16:21,467 --> 00:16:24,587 Speaker 5: He's done a great job across five six years now, 358 00:16:24,947 --> 00:16:27,827 Speaker 5: and he's turned things around before. He's just this is 359 00:16:27,827 --> 00:16:31,427 Speaker 5: probably the most difficult point he's had since maybe twenty 360 00:16:31,467 --> 00:16:33,707 Speaker 5: twenty one when he kind of turned the team around 361 00:16:33,747 --> 00:16:35,467 Speaker 5: the first time. So it's hard to do it twice. 362 00:16:36,307 --> 00:16:39,147 Speaker 5: France are looking very strong, England are looking like the 363 00:16:39,187 --> 00:16:42,027 Speaker 5: team on the up, and I think there'll be the 364 00:16:42,027 --> 00:16:43,787 Speaker 5: two favorites for the six Nations, especially with the way 365 00:16:43,827 --> 00:16:47,107 Speaker 5: the fixer's fall. But yeah, not a huge amount of enthusiasm, 366 00:16:47,347 --> 00:16:49,307 Speaker 5: but things are starting to turn with the provinces and 367 00:16:49,907 --> 00:16:52,187 Speaker 5: the teams. The players are starting to play a little 368 00:16:52,227 --> 00:16:54,147 Speaker 5: bit better, so there's a bit of hope that maybe 369 00:16:54,147 --> 00:16:56,627 Speaker 5: they can turn up. But France away on a Thursday 370 00:16:56,707 --> 00:16:58,667 Speaker 5: night not for an opener is about as hard as 371 00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:02,387 Speaker 5: it's ever going to get. And yeah, it's going to 372 00:17:02,427 --> 00:17:06,187 Speaker 5: take a pretty seismic effort to deliver some silverware this spring. 373 00:17:06,387 --> 00:17:08,107 Speaker 4: All right, Rory, better leave it there. I feel like 374 00:17:08,147 --> 00:17:09,747 Speaker 4: I could chat to you more and more about Irish 375 00:17:09,787 --> 00:17:12,747 Speaker 4: rugby and about the relationship between our two nations, but 376 00:17:13,227 --> 00:17:16,347 Speaker 4: we will leave you there. Thanks indeed, and congratulations again 377 00:17:16,387 --> 00:17:20,587 Speaker 4: on your sterling work with this story that is Rory O'Connor, 378 00:17:21,027 --> 00:17:26,227 Speaker 4: senior rugby writer, chief rugby correspondent with the Irish Independent. 379 00:17:27,347 --> 00:17:30,507 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 380 00:17:30,627 --> 00:17:34,027 Speaker 1: to News Talk SEDB weekends from midday, or follow the 381 00:17:34,067 --> 00:17:35,547 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio