1
00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,892
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from newstalks'd be follow this

2
00:00:13,093 --> 00:00:16,213
Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:16,813 --> 00:00:19,253
Speaker 2: On the line is doctor Richard Barber. He is a

4
00:00:18,973 --> 00:00:23,413
Speaker 2: bariatric specialist. He is very renowned in this country and

5
00:00:23,533 --> 00:00:26,572
Speaker 2: he has given us a bit of his time. Good

6
00:00:26,573 --> 00:00:27,293
Speaker 2: a doctor Barber.

7
00:00:28,253 --> 00:00:31,293
Speaker 3: Hello, Hey, thank you for talking to us today. So

8
00:00:31,493 --> 00:00:34,533
Speaker 3: just just to make it succinct for everyone listening, how

9
00:00:34,613 --> 00:00:38,293
Speaker 3: exactly does a zimpec and the like work.

10
00:00:40,133 --> 00:00:44,253
Speaker 4: Well, they are GDLP one receptor antagonists. They work on

11
00:00:45,053 --> 00:00:51,772
Speaker 4: the receptors that help the pancreas release insulin and it's

12
00:00:51,812 --> 00:00:54,093
Speaker 4: quite so good for diabetes. And they also work on

13
00:00:54,173 --> 00:00:58,212
Speaker 4: other receptors in the brain and the liver which keep

14
00:00:58,253 --> 00:01:03,573
Speaker 4: our blood sugars down and helps to contrain control appetite

15
00:01:04,173 --> 00:01:06,173
Speaker 4: in the sensation of feeling full.

16
00:01:07,253 --> 00:01:10,133
Speaker 3: Richard, how much is it a magic pill? And you know,

17
00:01:10,213 --> 00:01:12,693
Speaker 3: you say it makes you feel full full, but it

18
00:01:12,733 --> 00:01:15,053
Speaker 3: also has a sort of a physiological effect in terms

19
00:01:15,053 --> 00:01:18,173
Speaker 3: of how you're processing the food in terms of digestin.

20
00:01:18,253 --> 00:01:20,732
Speaker 3: But how much does a person have to bring willpower

21
00:01:20,733 --> 00:01:21,372
Speaker 3: to it as well?

22
00:01:22,773 --> 00:01:26,773
Speaker 4: Well? You know it's funny that you use that expression

23
00:01:26,853 --> 00:01:29,493
Speaker 4: the magic because it's not a pill, it's an injection,

24
00:01:29,693 --> 00:01:31,333
Speaker 4: so that's a big difference.

25
00:01:31,212 --> 00:01:32,893
Speaker 3: But it can be there. But there are forms of

26
00:01:32,893 --> 00:01:34,133
Speaker 3: it that do come as a pot.

27
00:01:34,493 --> 00:01:36,693
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, and there will be forms of it that

28
00:01:36,773 --> 00:01:39,813
Speaker 4: do come in an oral formulation, But it is important

29
00:01:39,932 --> 00:01:44,813
Speaker 4: to be clear about that because taking a pill is

30
00:01:44,853 --> 00:01:48,493
Speaker 4: one thing, and injecting yourself every day with sexender or

31
00:01:49,293 --> 00:01:52,013
Speaker 4: lyric glue tide is the name of the drug, is

32
00:01:52,133 --> 00:01:54,693
Speaker 4: quite a big thing, and that's one of the things

33
00:01:54,973 --> 00:01:57,853
Speaker 4: that stops people doing it for long periods of time.

34
00:01:57,853 --> 00:02:00,093
Speaker 4: They get sick of injecting themselves every week.

35
00:02:01,493 --> 00:02:03,653
Speaker 2: Do you worry, sorry to jump in there, doctor Barber,

36
00:02:03,653 --> 00:02:07,013
Speaker 2: do you worry that some of the public relations around

37
00:02:07,773 --> 00:02:12,013
Speaker 2: particular ozempac does present it as some sort of miracle

38
00:02:12,133 --> 00:02:15,573
Speaker 2: drug that you can take and you're not going to

39
00:02:15,613 --> 00:02:18,093
Speaker 2: have to do any sort of exercise or eat healthy,

40
00:02:18,093 --> 00:02:20,213
Speaker 2: and it's going to help you lose weight. Do you

41
00:02:20,293 --> 00:02:23,333
Speaker 2: get that sense from the I.

42
00:02:23,252 --> 00:02:26,453
Speaker 4: Think that it's overhyped and over sold and there's a

43
00:02:26,453 --> 00:02:30,973
Speaker 4: lot of kind of misinformation out there around it. I mean,

44
00:02:31,013 --> 00:02:35,093
Speaker 4: there's no doubt that it's revolutionary new category of medicines.

45
00:02:35,133 --> 00:02:39,413
Speaker 4: They're very effective. The zempic itself is not that great

46
00:02:39,413 --> 00:02:43,533
Speaker 4: at helping people lose weight. Patients and lose around fifteen,

47
00:02:43,933 --> 00:02:47,133
Speaker 4: perhaps at most twenty percent of their weight on average.

48
00:02:47,573 --> 00:02:49,773
Speaker 4: There are new drugs that are in the pipeline where

49
00:02:49,773 --> 00:02:52,773
Speaker 4: perhaps they won't need to be injected, could be taken

50
00:02:52,853 --> 00:02:56,252
Speaker 4: orally and have a similar effect and help patients lose

51
00:02:56,293 --> 00:02:59,413
Speaker 4: even more weight, and that will be even better. But

52
00:03:00,173 --> 00:03:04,173
Speaker 4: you know they're not it's certainly not a magic pill

53
00:03:04,252 --> 00:03:07,253
Speaker 4: in a solution. There's recent study in the UK that

54
00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:10,133
Speaker 4: showed that only about twenty percent of people who are

55
00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:12,972
Speaker 4: starting on sex Center are still taking it after a year,

56
00:03:13,613 --> 00:03:16,053
Speaker 4: and they stop taking it because of side effects and

57
00:03:16,093 --> 00:03:20,173
Speaker 4: they get and the cost is another big issue for

58
00:03:20,333 --> 00:03:26,213
Speaker 4: patients in the UK, and they also don't they get

59
00:03:26,252 --> 00:03:29,693
Speaker 4: sick of injecting themselves and they get side effects like

60
00:03:29,813 --> 00:03:30,853
Speaker 4: nausea and vomiting.

61
00:03:31,613 --> 00:03:32,933
Speaker 3: How much does it cost?

62
00:03:34,373 --> 00:03:35,413
Speaker 4: How much does it cost?

63
00:03:35,613 --> 00:03:35,813
Speaker 3: Yeah?

64
00:03:36,853 --> 00:03:39,133
Speaker 4: In New Zealand it's about five hundred.

65
00:03:38,853 --> 00:03:41,732
Speaker 2: Dollars a month, right, right, so very expension.

66
00:03:42,773 --> 00:03:46,093
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yeah, beyond most people's ability to afford it.

67
00:03:46,573 --> 00:03:50,973
Speaker 4: And then at the moment these medications, it's well known

68
00:03:51,093 --> 00:03:53,293
Speaker 4: that you take them and then as soon as you

69
00:03:53,373 --> 00:03:55,933
Speaker 4: stop taking them, and you regain weight. So it's not

70
00:03:55,973 --> 00:03:58,573
Speaker 4: like you can just take it for a year, lose

71
00:03:58,653 --> 00:04:02,293
Speaker 4: ten kilos or twenty heroes and then stop and you're good.

72
00:04:03,093 --> 00:04:05,933
Speaker 4: You'll just regain that because your brain switches back on,

73
00:04:06,053 --> 00:04:11,533
Speaker 4: your appetite comes back, and you start regaining weight almost immediately.

74
00:04:12,533 --> 00:04:16,613
Speaker 4: Were you'll question about what was the other question that

75
00:04:16,693 --> 00:04:18,213
Speaker 4: you just well, what we've.

76
00:04:18,053 --> 00:04:22,093
Speaker 2: Been chatting about is whether it should be subsidized in

77
00:04:22,133 --> 00:04:25,093
Speaker 2: New Zealand, whether you know, on a cost benefit analysis

78
00:04:25,173 --> 00:04:28,573
Speaker 2: argument that if you help people maintain a healthy rate

79
00:04:28,653 --> 00:04:32,093
Speaker 2: early on before they get diabetes, that it might be

80
00:04:32,133 --> 00:04:33,733
Speaker 2: worth while. Where do you sit on that side of

81
00:04:33,773 --> 00:04:34,373
Speaker 2: that argument.

82
00:04:35,493 --> 00:04:38,053
Speaker 4: Ah, yeah, I think it's probably a good idea. Of

83
00:04:38,093 --> 00:04:40,253
Speaker 4: people were talking about that all over the world. The

84
00:04:40,373 --> 00:04:43,253
Speaker 4: NHS is looking at it. I think there's pretty soon

85
00:04:43,373 --> 00:04:46,693
Speaker 4: healthcare you know, insurers and providers in the United States

86
00:04:46,733 --> 00:04:49,693
Speaker 4: are probably going to do it because they probably will

87
00:04:49,733 --> 00:04:53,413
Speaker 4: save the money. Having said that that, these are things

88
00:04:53,413 --> 00:04:57,693
Speaker 4: sort of that have extrapolated from other data in terms

89
00:04:57,693 --> 00:05:00,213
Speaker 4: of you know, like, no one's proven that it saves money,

90
00:05:00,653 --> 00:05:04,413
Speaker 4: but in fact, bariatric surgery and absolute this is shameless plug.

91
00:05:04,813 --> 00:05:08,133
Speaker 4: There's absolutely data that shows that it saves the healthcare

92
00:05:08,453 --> 00:05:11,413
Speaker 4: the money, and that's locked in because it's been around

93
00:05:11,453 --> 00:05:15,253
Speaker 4: for thirty years, so you know, people are speculating about it.

94
00:05:15,333 --> 00:05:17,533
Speaker 4: I only think it's a very good idea because it's

95
00:05:17,613 --> 00:05:20,533
Speaker 4: kind of a bit more accessible and less scary than surgery.

96
00:05:21,253 --> 00:05:23,933
Speaker 4: People do lose weight, You do want to stop people

97
00:05:23,973 --> 00:05:28,413
Speaker 4: getting diabetes, and it probably will enable people who currently

98
00:05:28,453 --> 00:05:31,933
Speaker 4: can't work because the health problems get back into work,

99
00:05:32,413 --> 00:05:35,853
Speaker 4: and it'll probably save the healthcare system money in the

100
00:05:36,333 --> 00:05:36,853
Speaker 4: long run.

101
00:05:37,773 --> 00:05:39,853
Speaker 3: If you take the drug, does it need to be

102
00:05:39,973 --> 00:05:42,093
Speaker 3: backed up with We're talking to Bill before and he

103
00:05:42,213 --> 00:05:45,613
Speaker 3: had a dietitian on board and he brought in some exercise.

104
00:05:46,013 --> 00:05:48,533
Speaker 3: Does it need to have that pairing? Take the drug

105
00:05:48,653 --> 00:05:52,373
Speaker 3: and also teach yourself how to live going forward in

106
00:05:52,413 --> 00:05:53,493
Speaker 3: a more healthy fashion.

107
00:05:54,893 --> 00:05:57,933
Speaker 4: One of the things about the drug is that sort

108
00:05:57,973 --> 00:06:02,013
Speaker 4: of forces you that sex ended particularly and I'm not

109
00:06:02,373 --> 00:06:04,773
Speaker 4: so sure about the newer ones that are coming down

110
00:06:04,813 --> 00:06:07,693
Speaker 4: the pipeline, like tu zipotide, which has been talked about

111
00:06:07,693 --> 00:06:11,133
Speaker 4: a lot, which is the next generation after a zempic.

112
00:06:11,853 --> 00:06:15,253
Speaker 4: It has fewer side effects, but what happens is that

113
00:06:15,253 --> 00:06:18,573
Speaker 4: if you eat a lot of carbohydrates or refined carbohydrates

114
00:06:18,573 --> 00:06:21,213
Speaker 4: and ocroprocessed food. It brings on the side effects of

115
00:06:21,253 --> 00:06:24,253
Speaker 4: a drug, so it kind of teaches people not to

116
00:06:24,333 --> 00:06:30,693
Speaker 4: eat noodles and biscuit writing chips, and so it's actually

117
00:06:31,013 --> 00:06:33,373
Speaker 4: part of the effect of the drug, right that it

118
00:06:33,453 --> 00:06:37,133
Speaker 4: kind of corners people into eating wholt foods which are

119
00:06:37,413 --> 00:06:38,053
Speaker 4: better for you.

120
00:06:38,333 --> 00:06:41,773
Speaker 2: Yeah, Doctor Richard Barber, thank you very much for your time.

121
00:06:41,853 --> 00:06:45,653
Speaker 2: He is a bariatric specialist and a very renowned surgeon

122
00:06:45,693 --> 00:06:49,013
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. Fascinating part of the medical industry you

123
00:06:49,053 --> 00:06:50,053
Speaker 2: work in, Doctor Barber.

124
00:06:50,653 --> 00:06:53,573
Speaker 1: For more from us Talks b listen live on air

125
00:06:53,773 --> 00:06:56,493
Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you

126
00:06:56,533 --> 00:06:58,933
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio