1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Right now, it's twenty four to six and stats en 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Z has released a big chunk of census data today 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: and for the first time, more than half of the 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: population in New Zealand say they have no religion. The 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: number of people who identify as Christian has dropped from 6 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: thirty six point five percent of the population in twenty 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty two percent. The other largest religious groups 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: were Hindu at two point nine percent, Islam at one 9 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: point five. Professor Emeritus of Religion at Massi University, Peter 10 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: linums with the susceved. 11 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: In Kilder Peter Jerda, How are you, Jack? 12 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Very well? Thank you. Are you surprised at all by this? 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: No, I'm not surprised, mind you. They haven't given us 14 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 2: much data. What you've told is about everything they've told 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: us so far, right, But what I can make out 16 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 2: is that, yeah, the decline in Christianity has been going 17 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: on since the nineteen sixties, and it's speeded up a 18 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: tremendous amount in the period from nineteen six through to 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: nineteen two thousand and six to twenty and eighteen. It's 20 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: all going on. But what's quite interesting is that the 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: proportion of people choosing no religion. The speed at which 22 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 2: that's increasing is going down a bit, and I think 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: that means that other religions are rising at the expense 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: of Christianity. 25 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, right, Well, do you know what other 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: religions those would be, or would that be you know, 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: Hindu and Islam. 28 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: You know already Handu and Islam have increased, and that 29 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: reflects the immigration figures. But I think there may be 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: more to them that I'm waiting. I gether, I've got 31 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: to wait until early December for the detailed figures, so 32 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: I've found tenterhooks to then. But I suspect that there's 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: also been quite a growth of what you might call 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: new age trape religions, different religious forms. I think there's 35 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: a bit of evidence that people, especially molder people, are 36 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: exploring around for alternatives to traditional religion. 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, or alternative forms of spirituality. 38 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right. So these are the figures. 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: These are only the figures phenomenal adherents. So it doesn't 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: measure spirituality unless people say they have a commitment to 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: that spirituality. An awful lot of the people who say 42 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: none are quite spiritual in their outlook. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, how many people do you think are distinguished between 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: being agnostic or or having no religion and actively believing 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: there is no god. 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,559 Speaker 2: So we got some rough figures on that from other surveys, 47 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: the Value Survey, and that would suggest to us that 48 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: roughly half of the people who say they have no religion, 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: so about a quarter of the population, so they don't believe. 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: In gods essentially. 51 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that yeah, and and the other quarter will have 52 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: various outlooks where they're not They're not putting their money 53 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: on any line if you like. 54 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it. I wonder if that is 55 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: likely to change it all as well? Have you have 56 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: you seen you know, have the numbers on that front 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: changed it all? As you've seen this big shift since 58 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and six. 59 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a bit of evidence certainly that the kind 60 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: of hard eighteism option which was tremendously popular in two 61 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: thousand and six with the new atheism, has really faded 62 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: significantly and people are much more exploratory about really Remember, 63 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about a new generation of young people who 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: are really interested in all sorts of aspects of lives 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: that their parents wouldn't have dreamt of talking about. 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: And now of course, this is the first census in 67 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: which they asked about gender identity and sexual identity. So 68 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: forty seven thousand people identified as being homosexual, more than 69 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: seventy eight thousand identified as being bisexual. That's interesting. What 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: do you read into those figures better? 71 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: Oh, well, the homosexual figure, the existing surveys would have 72 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: led us to believe it was quite a bit lower 73 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: than that. But they've given us a breakdown of the ages. 74 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: And there's no question about it that young people now 75 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: are much more likely to identify as gender non conforming, 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: so they're either gay or they're exploring inndidoquous as the 77 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: transfigure as well. So there's a whole lot of new factors. 78 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: And you see it could be linked to the religious 79 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: as well, that this exploratory aspect of young people far 80 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: more willing to think of alternatives than their parents. 81 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I just feel completely unqualified to 82 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: comment it all on the of this, which isn't the 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: first time in my life that I'm a little bit 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: surprised that almost double the number of people, certainly thirty 85 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: or forty percent more people have identified as being bisexual 86 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: than have identified as being homosexual. As gay or lisbian, 87 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: which I suppose speaks to the kind of you know, 88 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: maybe speaks to the changing social norms. 89 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 2: Well, it's generally thought in the gay world anyway, that 90 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: the first step to identifying as homosexual is to say 91 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: you're bisexual, in others to reflect that you're not quite 92 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: sure you're there. But since the age of those people, 93 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: it's very predominantly in the tend to ten to twenty 94 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: five age band. Yeah right, not all of those, and 95 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: think I would think, you know, a great majority of 96 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: those will end up has been heterosexual. Yeah, that's fascinating 97 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: that they're exploring. 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thanks, Peter, I appreciate that. Don't now have 99 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: any doubt of you on how many people identified as Jedi. 100 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: I know that was always a bit of a laugh 101 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: and back in the day. For more from Hither Duplessy 102 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be from 103 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.